2 things way off topic

[Sean Miller Fan]

- I never understand why attendance is so bad at this Hawaii Christmas tournament. The games on Christmas I understand but for a city with no pro teams and whose basketball teams plays in a league that isnt really good (Big West), its amazing that there may be less than 100 local Hawaiians that attend these games. I get that basketball is not that big in Hawaii but still. Same goes for the bowl game at Aloha Stadium. Nobody ever goes to that. You'd think it would be a big deal down there.

- Also, as I watch a little bit of these HS Football State Champion Bowl Games, it makes me think of a tournament I'd love to see: A post-season HS basketball tournament to determine the #1 team who has geographic boundaries (inotherwords, no private, charters, or other basketball factories). It would be cool to see a tournament of actual real HS basketball teams.

 

[PittSqueak]

- A post-season HS basketball tournament to determine the #1 team who has geographic boundaries (inotherwords, no private, charters, or other basketball factories). It would be cool to see a tournament of actual real HS basketball teams.

Most of the really good public HS teams basically operate like private teams since they recruit all over the place, provide fake addresses for players to transfer in, provide jobs for families to legitimately move in, etc. I was coaching at a school last year & our best middle school player was a 7th grader who was very open about heading to another school in another district when she got to HS. She said "everyone has an aunt or somebody who lives over there whose address you can use."

I coach in Portland, and there was a boys team that won 4 straight state championships on the back of a top-50 recruit who was a freshman at Oregon last year, so once he and most of the team graduated which theoretically dropped them to the basement, the super rich school (West Linn) suddenly had 8 transfers on their team and finished 3rd in state. They actually wear warm-ups that say "Culture Wins" which is the most hilarious stuff ever.

I was friends with a girl at Philly's Simon Gratz HS--a public school until becoming a charter in 2011--when Rasheed Wallace was there (graduated in '93). They were the #1 team in the country and had 3 7-footers, which was odd considering their classes had about 150 students each at the time. She told me the majority of the basketball players all moved into the area when they were in middle school, and their parents all got jobs at the same place.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Most of the really good public HS teams basically operate like private teams since they recruit all over the place, provide fake addresses for players to transfer in, provide jobs for families to legitimately move in, etc. I was coaching at a school last year & our best middle school player was a 7th grader who was very open about heading to another school in another district when she got to HS. She said "everyone has an aunt or somebody who lives over there whose address you can use."

I coach in Portland, and there was a boys team that won 4 straight state championships on the back of a top-50 recruit who was a freshman at Oregon last year, so once he and most of the team graduated which theoretically dropped them to the basement, the super rich school (West Linn) suddenly had 8 transfers on their team and finished 3rd in state. They actually wear warm-ups that say "Culture Wins" which is the most hilarious stuff ever.

I was friends with a girl at Philly's Simon Gratz HS--a public school until becoming a charter in 2011--when Rasheed Wallace was there (graduated in '93). They were the #1 team in the country and had 3 7-footers, which was odd considering their classes had about 150 students each at the time. She told me the majority of the basketball players all moved into the area when they were in middle school, and their parents all got jobs at the same place.

Doesn’t sound fishy to me !

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Most of the really good public HS teams basically operate like private teams since they recruit all over the place, provide fake addresses for players to transfer in, provide jobs for families to legitimately move in, etc. I was coaching at a school last year & our best middle school player was a 7th grader who was very open about heading to another school in another district when she got to HS. She said "everyone has an aunt or somebody who lives over there whose address you can use."

I coach in Portland, and there was a boys team that won 4 straight state championships on the back of a top-50 recruit who was a freshman at Oregon last year, so once he and most of the team graduated which theoretically dropped them to the basement, the super rich school (West Linn) suddenly had 8 transfers on their team and finished 3rd in state. They actually wear warm-ups that say "Culture Wins" which is the most hilarious stuff ever.

I was friends with a girl at Philly's Simon Gratz HS--a public school until becoming a charter in 2011--when Rasheed Wallace was there (graduated in '93). They were the #1 team in the country and had 3 7-footers, which was odd considering their classes had about 150 students each at the time. She told me the majority of the basketball players all moved into the area when they were in middle school, and their parents all got jobs at the same place.

That’s why Terry Smith was so successful at Gateway. Everyone jokes about Central (and likely rightly so) but Gateway was as sketchy as it came. Don’t know if they still pull these shenanigans but I know for sure they used to.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

College basketball is simply losing its appeal. While college football has somehow managed to thrive and grow in the shadow of the NFL, college basketball is getting more and more marginalized by the NBA.

 

[thirteenNINE]

The issue is that college football is a pretty comparable overall product to the NFL and that college football gameday culture is a really big draw. With basketball, outside of a half of a dozen schools, you really don't have a gameday culture of note and the on court product in today's NBA is light years beyond what you get in even the best college games.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

College basketball is simply losing its appeal. While college football has somehow managed to thrive and grow in the shadow of the NFL, college basketball is getting more and more marginalized by the NBA.

College basketball has got to figure out a way to make the regular season more meaningful. Here's some ideas:

- Top conferences mandate that cupcake games are drastically reduced. If everyone is required to do that, everyone is in the same boat. No more RPI gaming.

- First 2 NCAAT rounds at home venues. Ticket sales for the tourney are way down anyway and this gives more of an incentive to watch the regular season more.

 

[levance2]

- First 2 NCAAT rounds at home venues. Ticket sales for the tourney are way down anyway and this gives more of an incentive to watch the regular season more.

That sounds like a logistical nightmare. You only have 4 days between Selection Sunday and first round games. Even if you compare it to WBB, those sites are pre-selected, with the knowledge that you'd host your own team should you make the field, but that isn't limited to protected seeds.

In your scenario, you could play Friday night at Oregon and Sunday afternoon at Miami. That doesn't help anyone. That's part of the reason the schedule for the NIT is so random.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

- First 2 NCAAT rounds at home venues. Ticket sales for the tourney are way down anyway and this gives more of an incentive to watch the regular season more.

That sounds like a logistical nightmare. You only have 4 days between Selection Sunday and first round games. Even if you compare it to WBB, those sites are pre-selected, with the knowledge that you'd host your own team should you make the field, but that isn't limited to protected seeds.

In your scenario, you could play Friday night at Oregon and Sunday afternoon at Miami. That doesn't help anyone. That's part of the reason the schedule for the NIT is so random.

Schools would have to keep their building unbooked. If they book it because they don't think they'll land a Top 8 seed, the home game goes to the lower seed.....or maybe they could move it to a nearby building.

As for the Thu/Sat, Fri/Sun thing. That's pretty easy. Just add another day in between and alter the schedule a bit.

1st Round: Thu, Fri, Sat
2nd Round: Sun, Mon, Tue
Sweet 16: Fri, Sat
Elite 8: Sun, Mon
Final Four: Sat

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You guys are overlooking something. There are no identifiable players. All leagues need stars, and the NCAA now with the one and dones, just by the time you figure out who is playing for who and get acquainted with a team, they are gone and off to the NBA. It has really taken its toll amongst casual fans I believe.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You guys are overlooking something. There are no identifiable players. All leagues need stars, and the NCAA now with the one and dones, just by the time you figure out who is playing for who and get acquainted with a team, they are gone and off to the NBA. It has really taken its toll amongst casual fans I believe.

But why would it be betterif they were allowed to go straight to the NBA? Wouldn't 1 year of LeBron, Kobe, Okafor, Anthony Davis be better than 0?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Even if you compare it to WBB, those sites are pre-selected, with the knowledge that you'd host your own team should you make the field, but that isn't limited to protected seeds.

The women don't do it that way anymore. The top 16 seeds host the first two rounds, unless someone declines to do so. Which has actually happened a couple of times. But if Pitt was a number four seed then the first two rounds of their pod would be at the Petersen Center. If Pitt lost in the first round the second round games would still be held at Pitt.

I believe it was two years ago that they switched back to home courts. Since then all the home teams have won in the first round. Because of the general lack of parity in the women's game the three and four seeds are much better than the 13 and 14 seeds, and when you add in the threes and fours getting to play at home there simply are not going to be very many upsets of the top teams in the first round. Far fewer than there are in the men's game.

They stopped with pre-selecting the sites for the first two rounds when they had some places with very, very low attendance. Almost as bad as at some Pitt games this year.

 

[levance2]

They stopped with pre-selecting the sites for the first two rounds when they had some places with very, very low attendance. Almost as bad as at some Pitt games this year.

I'm glad to hear that because it sounded like it was a financial blunder the last time Pitt volunteered to host.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'm glad to hear that because it sounded like it was a financial blunder the last time Pitt volunteered to host.

The Pitt experience was surely one of the nails in the coffin of neutral site games in the first two rounds. Pitt put in that bid thinking that there was a good chance that they'd get into the tournament and get games at home, even if they were a 9 or 10 seed, and that would drive decent attendance. Instead they didn't even come close to making the tournament, and the games were very poorly attended.

Pitt wasn't the only place where that happened, but it was one of the more prominent examples.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

But why would it be betterif they were allowed to go straight to the NBA? Wouldn't 1 year of LeBron, Kobe, Okafor, Anthony Davis be better than 0?

No. If it meant you have 3 years of say maybe a lesser player establish himself. I am saying this is if the NBA would adapt an MLB type of draft eligibility that a guy can go directly from HS, but if he goes to college then he is there for 3 years.

So.......
a) Lebron and Kobe never played college BB in the first place.
b) Maybe some of the UK or Duke or Carolina stars who didn't go directly establish themselves in the college ranks and become attractions. You know, say the Duke teams of the past.
c) Maybe Steven Adams is at Pitt for 3 years.

But again, I am telling you from personally myself a college BB fan for decades, and my friends, to a man we are all less interested anymore and this is the first thing cited by anyone of us as a reason. I am not saying kids shouldn't have the opportunity, I am saying the One and Dones have killed college BB

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But why would it be betterif they were allowed to go straight to the NBA? Wouldn't 1 year of LeBron, Kobe, Okafor, Anthony Davis be better than 0?

No. If it meant you have 3 years of say maybe a lesser player establish himself. I am saying this is if the NBA would adapt an MLB type of draft eligibility that a guy can go directly from HS, but if he goes to college then he is there for 3 years.

So.......
a) Lebron and Kobe never played college BB in the first place.
b) Maybe some of the UK or Duke or Carolina stars who didn't go directly establish themselves in the college ranks and become attractions. You know, say the Duke teams of the past.
c) Maybe Steven Adams is at Pitt for 3 years.

But again, I am telling you from personally myself a college BB fan for decades, and my friends, to a man we are all less interested anymore and this is the first thing cited by anyone of us as a reason. I am not saying kids shouldn't have the opportunity, I am saying the One and Dones have killed college BB

I pretty much agree but I think it would take more than that. Regular season ratings are bad and NCAAT attendance is getting worse.

What is probably going to happen is the NBA will change to more of an MLB rule with a slight modification. You can go directly out of HS but if you don't, you can't leave until you after 2 years.

 

[Deer Head]

That’s why Terry Smith was so successful at Gateway. Everyone jokes about Central (and likely rightly so) but Gateway was as sketchy as it came. Don’t know if they still pull these shenanigans but I know for sure they used to.

Except Terry Smith never won poop. They were cheating and still never winning.