40 million a year

[lilspainishflea]

It’s proving my point. Let’s say Mike Tomlin really did not want to fire Bruce Arians and then the ownership group decides that they want Todd Haley. Well then that’s not really Mike Tomlin making the decision. Then the ownership group decides that Ben should get his guy FiKner the OC job. Again that wouldn’t be Mike Tomlin making the decision so that when the offense is bad it’s really not on him. The same thing would go with the Keith Butler hire. If Keith Butler was told he was the DC in waiting then really the mediocre results and Mike Tomlin wanting to call the place because he doesn’t believe in him as a play caller kinda wouldn’t be his fault. So then it would be a situation. Where has a chef you don’t have control over how the meals come out because somebody else keeps adding ingredients to your food that you don’t want. This is why I want a very clear picture of how their structure is.

It doesn't even matter what the structure is.

Either Tomlin has responsibility for things that coaches of his level of experience and seniority have, and he should be held accountable for the team's consistent mediocrity. (This is almost certainly the case.)

Or, he doesn't have such responsibility, and this means that firing him represents very little downside to Steelers fans because it's someone else who is making all the decisions anyway.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Schrödinger's Tomlin:

- He is a Hall of Fame coach and we'll immediately be worse without him
- He has no responsibility for coaching resources, hiring decisions, player selection, or offensive/defensive scheme

Who extended him and gave him raises ?
Why aren’t they making a change
Tomlin can be fired today by ownership .

 

[PittPharm2002]

It doesn't even matter what the structure is.

Either Tomlin has responsibility for things that coaches of his level of experience and seniority have, and he should be held accountable for the team's consistent mediocrity. (This is almost certainly the case.)

Or, he doesn't have such responsibility, and this means that firing him represents very little downside to Steelers fans because it's someone else who is making all the decisions anyway.

The transition from Dan to Art is the common denominator with mediocrity.
Art just extended Tomlin for what reason ?
Kahn was promoted from within for what reason , instead of an experienced GM ?

I’m a root cause type of guy .
Coaches get fired all the time in the NFL.

 

[lilspainishflea]

The transition from Dan to Art is the common denominator with mediocrity.
Art just extended Tomlin for what reason ?
Kahn was promoted from within for what reason , instead of an experienced GM ?

I’m a root cause type of guy .
Coaches get fired all the time in the NFL.

I think there are different ways to assign blame and for different reasons. But IMO, you're being a little obtuse with the obsession over Art II instead of Tomlin. If you compare it to your root cause example, think of a CTO and a Senior Engineer/Team Leader.

Is the CTO ultimately in charge? Yes. Do they assign resources at a meta level? Yes. Should they know what's going on in the product? Yes.

But the Senior Engineer/Team Leader has been there for 18 years now! They have hiring/firing authority. They pick their team. They write the code. They set the procedures for code fixing, etc.

If the code just sucks on a fundamental level, whose fault is it? That guy who lived with the code 24/7/365 or the one whose name is on the check? If you say the latter, I just think that's the incorrect answer. And you're a smart enough guy to know why but you're insisting it's the other way for some reason.

 

[pittdan77]

Schrödinger's Tomlin:

- He is a Hall of Fame coach and we'll immediately be worse without him
- He has no responsibility for things that a Hall of Fame coach would, such as coaching resources, hiring decisions, player selection, or offensive/defensive scheme

Yup. This dude gets to live in a paradox and it just blows my mind.

 

[pittdan77]

Tomlin can be fired today and I won’t complain .
Rooneys have the money to buy him out. Probably in their couch cushions

Your vigorous defense of Tomlin makes me think otherwise.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I think there are different ways to assign blame and for different reasons. But IMO, you're being a little obtuse with the obsession over Art II instead of Tomlin. If you compare it to your root cause example, think of a CTO and a Senior Engineer/Team Leader.

Is the CTO ultimately in charge? Yes. Do they assign resources at a meta level? Yes. Should they know what's going on in the product? Yes.

But the Senior Engineer/Team Leader has been there for 18 years now! They have hiring/firing authority. They pick their team. They write the code. They set the procedures for code fixing, etc.

If the code just sucks on a fundamental level, whose fault is it? That guy who lived with the code 24/7/365 or the one whose name is on the check? If you say the latter, I just think that's the incorrect answer. And you're a smart enough guy to know why but you're insisting it's the other way for some reason.

If the CTO is unsatisfied with the performance of the team lead, who makes the call to replace him ?

If the code sucks - who makes the call to replace the team lead ?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Your vigorous defense of Tomlin makes me think otherwise.

He’s like kennyheisman defending kenny Pickett.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Your vigorous defense of Tomlin makes me think otherwise.

What defense ?
The teams and roster isn’t good .
The adjustments aren’t good

So - what does yelling “Tomlin sucks !” On repeat create any change ?
It’s for the dullest of people .

At some point in time - when the owners stick with Tomlin- it’s hard to blame Tomlin for continuing to get paid to coach the team .

Same with FSG and Sullivan with the Pens .

 

[pittdan77]

What defense ?
The teams and roster isn’t good .
The adjustments aren’t good

So - what does yelling “Tomlin sucks !” On repeat create any change ?
It’s for the dullest of people .

At some point in time - when the owners stick with Tomlin- it’s hard to blame Tomlin for continuing to get paid to coach the team .

Same with FSG and Sullivan with the Pens .

Well, I mean, you're arguing that none of this is Tomlin's fault and arguing in every way possible that Tomlin is but a victim of the evil Rooney family. Poor Mike. If only he had a better owner who would hire the best coaches for him and help him go find the best players. Nobody is arguing that Rooney is wrong for keeping Mike and that he holds the only vote that matters. We're just arguing with someone who thinks Tomlin is an innocent victim.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Well, I mean, you're arguing that none of this is Tomlin's fault and arguing in every way possible that Tomlin is but a victim of the evil Rooney family. Poor Mike. If only he had a better owner who would hire the best coaches for him and help him go find the best players. Nobody is arguing that Rooney is wrong for keeping Mike and that he holds the only vote that matters. We're just arguing with someone who thinks Tomlin is an innocent victim.

You are inventing a narrative to deflect how my logic dismantles your narrative

 

[pittdan77]

You are inventing a narrative to deflect how my logic dismantles your narrative

If only you were using any sort of logic.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

I honestly think that’s why Art sticks with Tomlin .
Tomlin takes all the heat and responsibility, and never complains . Consistently says he has the best job in the world.
It’s the reason his players like and respect him .
He doesn’t look for credit and always takes the blame
When things go bad .

That I can honestly agree with, but the nobility act can only take you so far. The NFL is an ever evolving sport and Tomlin seems stuck in 2015. I think he is a great human being, but a meh coach the would be a horrible teacher because he has no "classroom management" the students would love him and walk all over him at the same time.

 

[boseman7]

Other than the fact that Tomlin can be directly quoted, saying it was his decision, I guess all we're left with is conspiracy theories.

Tomlin says a lot of things that are just outright lies. He has a proven track record of saying one thing and doing the complete opposite. Too many examples to name. So i think Tomlin just takes the blame has a good company man even when he doesn’t make the decisions. No one can tell me the first guy on his list to call was Todd Haley. But i get the impression that there are too many Chiefs not enough indians. Like the contrary opinion in the room just quiets down. Like who told them signing Mitch Trubisky was a great idea?? Russ?? If Tomlin really is making the final say he should be gone 7 years ago.