I also try not to comment when there is a strong possibility I do not know the full story 5 hours after something like this occurs..
Dior… HE GONE
- Thread starter BballinsiderfromPitt
- Start date
I understand that Hayes pled guilty to less serious charges in the same way that Dior pled guilty to less serious charges.
Doesn’t really have anything to do with the school’s student conduct/title ix proceedings, though, which are independent to the legal process.
Are you suggesting he did something else to contribute to this? Ha, another reason the university screwed him over: Because now goofball are going to assume he did something else to warrant it. He didn't.
Why is everyone here making a million assumptions about this?
The team/Dior could have easily been well aware his case was still pending by the University, and this was a very real possibility. It may be a surprise to us, but not to them. Who knows how many behind-the-scenes internal meetings between Dior and the school would be happening, and the University would have been incredibly tight-lipped about it.
And honestly after what he did, they owe him and us absolutely nothing. Still sucks as a fan and from a basketball perspective, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not nearly as bad as y’all think in that regard either.
The team/Dior could have easily been well aware his case was still pending by the University, and this was a very real possibility. It may be a surprise to us, but not to them. Who knows how many behind-the-scenes internal meetings between Dior and the school would be happening, and the University would have been incredibly tight-lipped about it.
And honestly after what he did, they owe him and us absolutely nothing. Still sucks as a fan and from a basketball perspective, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not nearly as bad as y’all think in that regard either.
Wasn’t Heather on the Spain trip with the team? Wasn’t this also Dior’s first away trip? Maybe some of the brass got an intimate look into this guy’s character and decided enough was enough? This was destined to happen from the outset so the program is much better off without him anyway.
What assumptions are there to make? Really only one of any significance….whether or not Dior did anything else out of line since the case was resolved and the decision made by Pitt to reinstate him way back when. If he did nothing new out of line since then as some have suggested herein, then it’s really a shitty move by Pitt. And, even if Paco thinks it’s no concern, the timing is shitty too.
When a kid goes to 9 high schools in 5 years and then commits to 2 Universities before landing at Pitt...the probability of things working out were low..
Isn’t one possibility that there were conditions to his reinstatement by the University that Dior failed to meet?
“Chancellor interference in athletics has been the downfall of Pitt athletics many times in its history.”
This is the most important point to take from this decision.
She clearly interfered (as you pointed out) in the decisions of the AD and coaching staff. Her actions also indicated that Gallagher was wrong in trusting the judgement of the staff. The whole thing reeks of arrogance.
What is Heather and the rest of the AD department supposed to take from this decision?
If this is any indication of what is to come, then you can expect a lot of unhappiness within the department.
I thought that there's been zero evidence that the new chancellor had much of anything to do with this situation. Until we have any real notion that she played a big part in this, no need to continue to throw her under the bus.
What we do know is...
- Dior made a big mistake
- Dior was dismissed by the university but appealed said dismissal
- Dior lost his appeal
...so far I know, that's all we really know. Everything else is just rampant speculation.
Yeah this seems accurate upon more research. It also seems like they postponed this decision a few times to try and let the stink of it try to wear off enough to pass. Seems like Capel, Lyke and Co were well aware this was a strong possibility
It could be as simple as he didn't make grades.
It wasn’t that. It’s that he appealed the dismissal as said above: it went to 3 faculty members. Was delayed multiple times. Then Finally, they had to have the hearing to get him reinstated and the faculty decided he shouldn’t be back on campus. Maybe delaying was the best shot to get him back; but seems like you’d be want to know sooner rather than later imo
Of course there is but you’re just wording differently what I stated. In other words, if he did nothing wrong and abided by his agreed upon behavior and other conditions, there is no defensible reason to kick him out now.
Again, only one relevant assumption at this point, whether or not he behaved in accordance with the agreed upon conditions at reinstatement.
Listen, I think Jeff isn’t a very good coach or program builder. I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s the problem in this or the other situations, as far mentorship. He is pretty much the typical black male you’d want your kids to be around. I have 2 black nephews and have been very protective around the types of black role models I have let them around. I wouldn’t have a second hesitation about Jeff Capel from a mentorship perspective.
If you want to second guess taking kids who are transient like Dior, or are basically just a huge POS like Hugley, that’s fair. But maybe he feels it’s in his life calling (beyond making tons of money) to mentor the black kids who don’t grow up with that strong black role model in their life. And tbh that’s pretty cool.
Why would Dior have stuck around this long knowing this was a possibility? Seems to me he would have said 'F' it and hit the portal after the season.
But how do you know that he accomplished all the tasks? I mean it's not like all the tasks they gave him were ones that one could immediately accomplish. They surely would have included things that he would have had to have done going forward, not just what he had to do in the moment. He surely had to perform to a certain level in his classes, for example, or attend anger management or similar type classes that would have been ongoing. How do we know that the problem is that he did not, in fact, accomplish all the tasks that were set forth for him?
I get why people could think that Pitt doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here, but what has Johnson ever done that gets him the benefit of the doubt? Unless and until we know more about why he isn't here anymore (and we may never really know that), I'm not sure why the assumption should be that it's someone in the administration's fault rather than Johnson's fault.
I'm not certain what his options were... Was he still on probation in the state of Pennsylvania for what occurred? I honestly have no idea...
I think he would have probably had a very difficult time getting admitted into another school while in the middle of ongoing Title IX proceedings at his current school.
I have no idea if he did anything he was supposed to, other than stay out of police blotter and stay eligible. I also don’t think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. And I thought he should’ve been kicked off at the time. I don’t know this is such a nuanced situation where we’re reading a lot of tea leaves. Maybe they knew he was almost definitely not getting cleared and that’s why they offered a bag to Toussaint and just lost out to more money at Tech.
All you Moral Orels on here make me sick. I seem to remember Alex Bookser getting drunk and leading the police on a chase that ended with him crashing into something. He got like 3 games and no one ever brought it up again. I hate bias people who put one mans sins above another. None of you were there to see what Really happened that night. I have seen women attack men and cops laugh at them when they arrived. I hope Capel and Lyke leave and Pitt basketball sucks again.
I've read through this thread twice and have seen a number
of comments relatiing not only to Johnson, but also the
new chancellor, Lyke, Capel, and a decision making disciplinary
board. Until we know definitively what really happened in
this case, it's nothing more than pure speculation at this
point in time.
My initial reacton last year was he should have been kicked
off the team and had his scholarship revoked. That didn't
occur, so I put aside my opinion and thought....ok the
powers in charge decided to give him a second chance,
had him redshirt, and after some time, re instated to the
team. Not knowing the what and why, I accepted this decision
by university officials who knew more than I about the whats
and whys of this situation. I'm now assuming, something else
must have gone wrong with him to now be kicked off.
If nothing went wrong, then what?
Was he on a period of probation?
Did Dior commit new violations?
Did the new chancellor make an arbitrary decision as has
been mentioned on here, or was it another decision making
force that decided this?
It would be great if we knew the answers to the above. I doubt
we will, but then again how much of the student's personal
file should be open to the public?....or for that matter to
posters of a message board.
of comments relatiing not only to Johnson, but also the
new chancellor, Lyke, Capel, and a decision making disciplinary
board. Until we know definitively what really happened in
this case, it's nothing more than pure speculation at this
point in time.
My initial reacton last year was he should have been kicked
off the team and had his scholarship revoked. That didn't
occur, so I put aside my opinion and thought....ok the
powers in charge decided to give him a second chance,
had him redshirt, and after some time, re instated to the
team. Not knowing the what and why, I accepted this decision
by university officials who knew more than I about the whats
and whys of this situation. I'm now assuming, something else
must have gone wrong with him to now be kicked off.
If nothing went wrong, then what?
Was he on a period of probation?
Did Dior commit new violations?
Did the new chancellor make an arbitrary decision as has
been mentioned on here, or was it another decision making
force that decided this?
It would be great if we knew the answers to the above. I doubt
we will, but then again how much of the student's personal
file should be open to the public?....or for that matter to
posters of a message board.
A woman who is attacking a world class athlete…lmao…this was not his first sign of trouble. Also, Bookser is white. Stop comparing the two as if they are the same.
Thanks. I have seen nothing that tells me he that he lifts young men to high standard or has them for himself , that is not to single him out, as the vast majority of college coaches have little interest in it, but to repeatedly say he is building a program built on it is not accurate. The kids last year, leaders really, brought the standard themselves, from wherever, may be their family, high school coaches or other programs. But if you look at his body of work at Pitt, that is HCJC his strength, IMO
I think your assessment of what we know seems accurate. However, allow me to add that Dior and Pitt hoops proceeded (and/or) was allowed to operate as if Dior was reinstated during the appeal process. That seems to be the biggest problem.
Yeah there’s a certain part of this that makes zero sense. In the academic sense, it was like they required him to do all the coursework but couldn’t take exams to get a grade.
Obviously we don’t know full story but I’m assuming it’s closer to what we’re hearing RE: he went to the final appeals process and lost but it just sucks it took so damn long
What was he doing on campus between January and August? He was allowed to be a student during an appeal process?
This whole thing is very bizarre. I have always said I wouldnt even suspend a kid for crimes other than hitting a woman and something really serious. Rob a convenient store unarmed? 0 games. Let the justice system deal with it. Dont believe in double punishment unless its something really serious.....and what Dior did was serious. I said back then they should kick him off the team. But they didn't. They let him back in school in January and he was practicing with the team. Now you are saying he was like a fake student, going to class but not taking exams? What the effing eff? What is that. Either kick him off or suspend him. Once they let him back on campus, that was their decision to allow him to play. I dont get this fake student thing while he is "appealing?"
This is really really bad assuming Dior didnt do anything new. If the kid held up his end of the bargain, its an effing shame to kick him out. How about allowing the kid to be around a great role model like Capel and grow up a little bit? Him staying with the team 8 months is longer than he's ever been anywhere since he was 14. That may not saying a lot but its saying something
Until the real reasons of his departure are fully known we don’t know who’s responsible for this decision . Did he not meet the conditions of whatever deal he had with the university , did he flunk out , was there another incident, we just don’t know .
If he did what he was supposed to do and the university decided to kick him to the curb now shame on them . Where’s the kid going to go ? This could end up with him spiraling out of control . The fact that he participated in practices since Jan and appeared to be doing all the right things and was rooting his future teammates on quite enthusiastically last season makes you scratch your head at what really transpired here . If they wanted him gone it should’ve been done last Jan not in Aug . This decision hurts the Bb team , the coach , the fans and the player/ person . Good job Pitt !
For those of you always complaining about the lack of success of the Fb and Bb programs this should be a once again be a wake-up call . The Pitt administrators simply won’t do whatever it takes to be highly successful . Whether they’re justified in this case or not they’ve got a history of poor decisions that has left Pitt with competitive teams , but not even close to championship caliber teams . If the Pitt teams of today were as successful as the teams of the late 70’s they’d have an outside chance to be added to a super conference , but I see no way that could ever happen , they just don’t bring enough to the table . ($$$$ or excellence) Thank goodness they got into the ACC .
If he did what he was supposed to do and the university decided to kick him to the curb now shame on them . Where’s the kid going to go ? This could end up with him spiraling out of control . The fact that he participated in practices since Jan and appeared to be doing all the right things and was rooting his future teammates on quite enthusiastically last season makes you scratch your head at what really transpired here . If they wanted him gone it should’ve been done last Jan not in Aug . This decision hurts the Bb team , the coach , the fans and the player/ person . Good job Pitt !
For those of you always complaining about the lack of success of the Fb and Bb programs this should be a once again be a wake-up call . The Pitt administrators simply won’t do whatever it takes to be highly successful . Whether they’re justified in this case or not they’ve got a history of poor decisions that has left Pitt with competitive teams , but not even close to championship caliber teams . If the Pitt teams of today were as successful as the teams of the late 70’s they’d have an outside chance to be added to a super conference , but I see no way that could ever happen , they just don’t bring enough to the table . ($$$$ or excellence) Thank goodness they got into the ACC .
I agree with you. Not sure what the deal with letting him be there and participate as a member of the basketball team then decide no nevermind… how does it make sense? Dunno. I’m drunk at a football game
I give BballinsiderfromPitt a hard time but he does have good info 10% of the time and what he is saying on this makes a lot of sense......in that it makes no sense and its Pitt so I believe it. It sounds like he was admitted back to school on a provisional basis while his appeal to some egghead disciplinary board was pending. Now, why they'd let a kid as "dangerous" (sarcasm) back on campus for 8 months while the eggheads gathered all the info, who knows. That makes no sense at all so it makes total sense.
And I dont agree with what some are saying that Pitt doesnt owe us anything in terms of an explanation. We pay their bills. And these kids are pros now. Many will be making quite a bit more at Pitt than in mid to lower tier Euro leagues. We are their customers and you kicked off an important player under very shady circumstances. So I want an explanation.
