ADVERTISEMENT

Disappointed

Dallas Burgher

Head Coach
Gold Member
Jul 10, 2001
14,084
2,719
113
Disappointed with the tournament results. After reading pre-tournament posts I thought we would be more successful. It seems to me NCS is widening the gap between them and the rest of the pack. They are a very aggressive team with Mickey's opponent being a great example. Tight match and yet he was pushing the action consistently. Hope for better results next year.
 
Disappointed with the tournament results. After reading pre-tournament posts I thought we would be more successful. It seems to me NCS is widening the gap between them and the rest of the pack. They are a very aggressive team with Mickey's opponent being a great example. Tight match and yet he was pushing the action consistently. Hope for better results next year.
Pitt has had "decent" success.

Pitt is definitely not "exciting" to watch. Other teams have more dynamic wrestlers.
 
Gavin is doing a solid job but needs to expand his recruiting to eastern pa, ohio and New Jersey.thelocal area is good but not like in yesteryears.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jctrack
I think we are making strides, but still a bit behind NC State. I think the last few years we have been battling UNC and Virginia and I believe we have surpassed both. It will take time, but we are on the right path. Hopefully we can pull ahead of Va Tech soon.

I like the regional recruitment approach we’ve been taking, though it would be nice to have an assistant coach from another area to pull recruits from other states. PSU has had a nice pipeline from Michigan recently which I think is due partly to Cunningham being from there.
 
I would not call the result all that disappointing, from a persp post in another thread it went more or less as expected.

Now if you want to have a larger discussion about overall direction, development, and recruiting then that is fine but I would separate that discussion from the ACC tourney.

This is a big NCAA tournament for Gavin and Pitt because a national championship from Nino or Cole would go a long way in recruiting and helping to close the gap with NCState.
 
I think we are making strides, but still a bit behind NC State. I think the last few years we have been battling UNC and Virginia and I believe we have surpassed both. It will take time, but we are on the right path. Hopefully we can pull ahead of Va Tech soon.

I like the regional recruitment approach we’ve been taking, though it would be nice to have an assistant coach from another area to pull recruits from other states. PSU has had a nice pipeline from Michigan recently which I think is due partly to Cunningham being from there.
I think it is more because of their excellent reputation that they have earned.
 
It almost they are afraid to try to score points.
Honestly, outside of say, Trent Hidlay, Andonian, Lewis, and O'Connor, who is really scoring a lot of points? Pitt beat up on the schlubs just like they were supposed to, so what are you really looking for? Its there really a difference between a 10-9 match and a 2-1 match? No, there isnt.
 
Do you think it is because of who we recruit or how we coach our recruits?
Its because wrestling is hard and top 20-30 guys are hard to score on. Thats it. The expectations here are way too high. People see guys like Spencer Lee, RBY, Brooks, blowing guys out all over the place but those guys are the exception not the rule. High end matches will always tend to be low scoring affairs.
 
I would not call the result all that disappointing, from a persp post in another thread it went more or less as expected.

Now if you want to have a larger discussion about overall direction, development, and recruiting then that is fine but I would separate that discussion from the ACC tourney.

This is a big NCAA tournament for Gavin and Pitt because a national championship from Nino or Cole would go a long way in recruiting and helping to close the gap with NCState.
Pitzer redshirting also played a big role in the result Pitt got but it doesnt seem like many fans adjusted our expectations accordingly
 
  • Like
Reactions: _DBHoops
As a fan, we all want more scoring, but it’s not as easy as it seems. I was talking to my brother a few weeks ago about the PSU Iowa match and how there was not a ton of offense. He wrestled in college so has more perspective on how difficult it is to score. He mentioned that at all levels in college, getting a takedown is very hard.

In high school, my dad would always yell at me when I didn’t shoot enough in a match. I remember winning sections and he told me I would get crushed in WPIALS if I wrestled the same way. So I would take more shots, but they were all junk shots just to shoot without setting up a good shot. When he wasn’t around I wrestled more my style, settling up shots, creating space, etc and noticed I had much more success. If what Matthews and Mickey are doing is working, no need to change. I’d hate to see them shoot just for the sake of shooting and put themselves in worse situations because of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: persp and jctrack
It almost they are afraid to try to score points.
Yes I agree. Especially Cole and Mickey. I think Cole will have trouble at the NCAA’s because he has too many close matches. One slip and he is done. I will be rooting hard for all of them from stands.
are you coming to NCAA’s since it is close to yo.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dallas Burgher
Some good points on this thread.
1. The results were both expected and disappointing. The six qualifiers were expected, but there still were some disappointments. I thought Camacho could spring an upset over Trombley, and he wasn't close. I thought Luca or Slinger could, and both came up a takedown short. Casto was very disappointing, Holden not reaching the finals was disappointing, Reece getting teched by Hidlay after keeping it to a decision in the dual was disappointing, Micky getting pinned in the finals was disappointing.
2. Penn State absolutely warps people's impressions of what a good wrestler is. I had someone last night blasting Mekhi Lewis. Admittedly, he didn't do much in the finals, but the gap between college wrestlers is usually razor thin. This isn't high school where you might face a kid who just came out for the team that season. These guys have committed their lives to the sport and are likely on scholarship (sorry, Duke). A few elite guys can still get bonus regularly. Most can't.
3. I do think Cole and Micky are high-level defense guys who don't really have a go-to shot. If they're down one with 30 seconds left, it's going to be really hard for them to win. They're still really, really good. You'd like to have seen them improve over the years, but they haven't. I'd like to see Luca develop a go-to shot as well. He's young but has lost a lot of one-takedown matches this year.
4. NC State is an elite program and is still young. They're only going to get better.
5. Pitt could be elite recruiting solely in the 412/724/814 area codes, but the simple fact is you can't get everyone. Out-of-state recruiting is hard for Pitt because of the tuition costs. My understanding is a guy from Ohio could get a half-scholarship to Pitt and still be paying more than if he got a quarter at N.C. State. If they could throw a net around the WPIAL, they'd be top 10 every season.
 
Yes I agree. Especially Cole and Mickey. I think Cole will have trouble at the NCAA’s because he has too many close matches. One slip and he is done. I will be rooting hard for all of them from stands.
are you coming to NCAA’s since it is close to yo.
They both worry me but in regards to Cole, what separates him from many is his counter offense is not good, it’s great. That’s the difference between his close matches and say phillipi’s.
 
They both worry me but in regards to Cole, what separates him from many is his counter offense is not good, it’s great. That’s the difference between his close matches and say phillipi’s.
Do you think Phillipi was too conservative in the sudden victory? He seemed to be anticipating neither of them would score?
 
  • Like
Reactions: singregardless
Do you think Phillipi was too conservative in the sudden victory? He seemed to be anticipating neither of them would score?

Obviously didn't ask me but honestly hard to say he was too conservative I mean he's great defensively and great on top so going to rideouts at that point in the match was probably smart even though Orin is also good on top that was probably Mickey's best path to victory
 
  • Like
Reactions: Silkky1982
Obviously didn't ask me but honestly hard to say he was too conservative I mean he's great defensively and great on top so going to rideouts at that point in the match was probably smart even though Orin is also good on top that was probably Mickey's best path to victory
Thanks for the reply
 
I know it’s easier said then done but I would like at nationals for Mickey to be aggressive from start of whistle and get 2-3 take downs in 1st period, second period get riding time, and honestly the match is over, don’t think anyone in the country can take him down 3-4 times in a match to catch him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: singregardless
And again, I know it’s not that easy but last year at nationals Micky wrestled with a lot more intensity than I have seen him in his five years here. Unfortunately, he got caught in the blood round or I absolutely think he would’ve been an All-American and the results showed in his match with DeSanto when he lost 5-2 and the prior year he got the smashed. I’m very excited to see his last run this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lucac
Do you think it is because of who we recruit or how we coach our recruits?
I think it would be primarily coaching. However it could be both. I was certainly not an aggressive wrestler except on my feet. I felt like giving up an escape let alone a reversal was a real mark of shame so I was very conservative.
 
Yes I agree. Especially Cole and Mickey. I think Cole will have trouble at the NCAA’s because he has too many close matches. One slip and he is done. I will be rooting hard for all of them from stands.
are you coming to NCAA’s since it is close to yo.
After watching MPs match I thought “We’ll, what does he expect?”
 
And again, I know it’s not that easy but last year at nationals Micky wrestled with a lot more intensity than I have seen him in his five years here. Unfortunately, he got caught in the blood round or I absolutely think he would’ve been an All-American and the results showed in his match with DeSanto when he lost 5-2 and the prior year he got the smashed. I’m very excited to see his last run this year.
I am not expecting much. Hope I am wrong.
 
Honestly, outside of say, Trent Hidlay, Andonian, Lewis, and O'Connor, who is really scoring a lot of points? Pitt beat up on the schlubs just like they were supposed to, so what are you really looking for? Its there really a difference between a 10-9 match and a 2-1 match? No, there isnt.
Pressure
Honestly, outside of say, Trent Hidlay, Andonian, Lewis, and O'Connor, who is really scoring a lot of points? Pitt beat up on the schlubs just like they were supposed to, so what are you really looking for? Its there really a difference between a 10-9 match and a 2-1 match? No, there isnt.
Pressure, let’s try to make the opponents wary of what we are going to do instead of them having time to plan what they are going to do to us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaos
As a fan, we all want more scoring, but it’s not as easy as it seems. I was talking to my brother a few weeks ago about the PSU Iowa match and how there was not a ton of offense. He wrestled in college so has more perspective on how difficult it is to score. He mentioned that at all levels in college, getting a takedown is very hard.

In high school, my dad would always yell at me when I didn’t shoot enough in a match. I remember winning sections and he told me I would get crushed in WPIALS if I wrestled the same way. So I would take more shots, but they were all junk shots just to shoot without setting up a good shot. When he wasn’t around I wrestled more my style, settling up shots, creating space, etc and noticed I had much more success. If what Matthews and Mickey are doing is working, no need to change. I’d hate to see them shoot just for the sake of shooting and put themselves in worse situations because of it.
Well spoken. I hope I didn’t say go out and randomly shoot. If I did I am sorry.
 
Hard to say Cole “hasn’t improved over the years”, didn’t he go from winning like 1 match at nationals to being all American and one of the top guys in the country at his weight? That seems like a lot of improvement over the years.
Agree. He has to wrestle differently because other teams know who he is now and have have him scouted. He used to be more aggressive offensively, (which I loved watching), but it is what it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dallas Burgher
Hard to say Cole “hasn’t improved over the years”, didn’t he go from winning like 1 match at nationals to being all American and one of the top guys in the country at his weight? That seems like a lot of improvement over the years.
Sorry, I was unnecessarily vague in that statement. Both have improved during their time at Pitt, but I don’t think either has developed a go-to shot that they have the confidence to use late in a close match. They’re very dependent on counter offense, which is tough to get to when you’re down 2-1 with 30 seconds to go.
 
On the recruiting front, besides last recruiting class, I don’t think they recruit good enough. Need to tap more into NY, NJ, Ohio, and especially prep schools(Blair, Wyoming Sem, Malvern prep, etc.) We should have a top 15 class every 2 years at the least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jctrack
On the recruiting front, besides last recruiting class, I don’t think they recruit good enough. Need to tap more into NY, NJ, Ohio, and especially prep schools(Blair, Wyoming Sem, Malvern prep, etc.) We should have a top 15 class every 2 years at the least.
Good things happen when you have guys make the national finals, win natties, and consistently produce AAs
 
Some good points on this thread.

5. Pitt could be elite recruiting solely in the 412/724/814 area codes, but the simple fact is you can't get everyone. Out-of-state recruiting is hard for Pitt because of the tuition costs. My understanding is a guy from Ohio could get a half-scholarship to Pitt and still be paying more than if he got a quarter at N.C. State. If they could throw a net around the WPIAL, they'd be top 10 every season.
Tuition cost is the same problem private schools like Lehigh have with recruiting. Although with NIL, these differences could be mitigated with cash payments to offset the differences, at least in theory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: singregardless
Tuition cost is the same problem private schools like Lehigh have with recruiting. Although with NIL, these differences could be mitigated with cash payments to offset the differences, at least in theory.
No theory at all. How do you think PSU recruits several top 10 p4p recruits every year? Now they can do it with NIL money without breaking ncaa rules.
 
Competitive with PSU? No, no one is anywhere near the river of money that flows through their club. It’s not magical why they get the best guys. The coach helps, but they’ve been basically handing out unlimited scholarships since Cael got there.
No, I know that, but where is Pitt wrestling in the scheme of NIL? Approximately how many equivalent scholarships is Pitt at over the 9.9 NCAA limit? Where is Pitt compared to NCSU and VT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DevilDog42
No, I know that, but where is Pitt wrestling in the scheme of NIL? Approximately how many equivalent scholarships is Pitt at over the 9.9 NCAA limit? Where is Pitt compared to NCSU and VT.
It’s tough to say exactly because I don’t know how active NC State & VT are. We definitely had guys use NIL’s so they got over their scholarship amount this year.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT