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Gattis fired at Miami

guys, souf is right, i'd give my right arm for this guy but honestly, even if we had an opening, he's not coming to pitt as a coordinator, he will have better offers. his resume is great.
 
You mean a guy who literally won the Broyles award in 2021?
I’d take him 10 times out of 10 over cignetti

They basically run the exact same offense.

A lot of under center stuff.

A lot of bunching the box.

Gattis doesn’t use the FB. But that’s really the only difference. It’s “big boy” football.

Gattis’ ”stack the box and play man ball” is still extremely hard to run. Which is why he only lasted one year at Miami. He got there and found out going jumbo set isn’t easy to do if you don’t have a bunch of elite ranked OL.

Miami landed two 5* OL this last recruiting cycle and they still aren’t going to try to run that system anymore. You really want to try to run it with low 3* guys?
 
Good point -
Getting. 16 points against pitt with a 3rd string qb tells how good he was
Miami had 279 passing yards cignetti had 256

We had Izzy , that’s the difference
Pitt had 262 yards passing and did that in 11 less attempts than Miami ...... Pitt had 9.4 yards per pass attempt (Miami 7.2 yards per attempt) so at that rate, if we passed 11 more times (to equal Miami's pass attempts) we would have had 375 yards ...... Miami also scored 7 points in the last 1:30 of the game with our 2nd and 3rd team players in.

Bottom line, Michigan's offense was just as good this year without Gattis as it was last season with him and Miami's offense was way worse this year (#86) with Gattis than it was last year without him (#19)..... in addition Gattis has never coached QB's and some Miami people say there was somewhat of a disconnect between Gattis and his QB's especially Tyler Van Dyke who was significantly worse this season even before he was injured than he was last year ....... I suspect all of this and maybe more caused Miami to want to make a change in their offense coordinator and offensive philosophy (and they want someone who they feel will develop TVD better) ....... Gattis will no doubt land on his feet somewhere else and be fine .....

Besides as cashisking884 said, I think Gattis and Cignetti run similar offenses and, if so, it may well be better to have Cignetti at Pitt this year because of his previous relationship and previous success with Jurkovec and because players are now used to his system and terminology rather than bring someone new in ...... long term who knows what would be best, probably depends on how the offense does this coming season.
 
They basically run the exact same offense.

A lot of under center stuff.

A lot of bunching the box.

Gattis doesn’t use the FB. But that’s really the only difference. It’s “big boy” football.

Gattis’ ”stack the box and play man ball” is still extremely hard to run. Which is why he only lasted one year at Miami. He got there and found out going jumbo set isn’t easy to do if you don’t have a bunch of elite ranked OL.

Miami landed two 5* OL this last recruiting cycle and they still aren’t going to try to run that system anymore. You really want to try to run it with low 3* guys?
What about his “spread the field run tempo and score 50 a game while producing a Bilitnikoff winner” at Alabama?

He tried to do that for 2 years at Michigan too. It didn’t work with Michigan’s personnel and Harbaugh basically handed him his old Stanford playbook and told him this is what I want. 12 wins, a CFP appearance and the Broyles Award later…..

And here on the Lair we’re bashing him as being a lesser OC than Cignasty?
 
What about his “spread the field run tempo and score 50 a game while producing a Bilitnikoff winner” at Alabama?

He tried to do that for 2 years at Michigan too. It didn’t work with Michigan’s personnel and Harbaugh basically handed him his old Stanford playbook and told him this is what I want. 12 wins, a CFP appearance and the Broyles Award later…..

And here on the Lair we’re bashing him as being a lesser OC than Cignasty?
Only a couple of weird cignetti fans
 
you would honestly not take that trade right now?
I wouldn't. Wondering if Michigan O was much more so Harbaugh than Gattis. It was just as good of not better than last year.

With much more talent than Pitt, The U had a worse O. That's not saying I wouldn't take a number of other OCs over Cignetti though.
 
Only a couple of weird cignetti fans
Cignasty waiting on that call from the Broyles committee…..

360_F_27177008_KtLw7bdX0s7FOYop9t6R9fr0f3Z4lFkv.jpg
 
Good point -
Getting. 16 points against pitt with a 3rd string qb tells how good he was
Miami had 279 passing yards cignetti had 256

We had Izzy , that’s the difference
Miami this year points v. P5...

aTm 9
UNC 24
VT 20
Duke 20
UVa 14 (4 OT so just 6 in regulation)
FSU 3
GT 35
Clemson 10
Pitt 16

...that's a pretty rough year. 10 points or less in regulation in 4 out of 9 v. P5 games is kinda ridiculous honestly.

It'll be interesting to see if he's successful in his next stop.
 
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Since we're beating the hell out of an old dead horse, let's revisit under center and condensed sets.





Before we get into "well, Air Force runs the veer and it's different, then running a pro-style scheme" stuff. Take this into consideration -

1. Air Force has all but abandoned the inside veer. The staple play of this offense for 50 years. They ran zero times in this game.

2. Instead they ran zone dive 30 freaking times. It's their version of the classic inside zone.

3. They only ran 9 option runs all night (8 midline triple) and 1 zone option.

4. They have zero scholarship players and hammered a power 5 team.

Calhoun knows that condensed formations are the end all and be all. However, he knows it helps his team of undersized and slower athletes kill defenses. Why?

#1. It immediately gives them a short edge to get outside. Pretty good idea when you have 4.7 and 4.8 slots. Much harder to set an edge with average athletes when the edge is wide.

#2. It reduces the box defenders (c gap and inside).

#3. It limits the coverages you can see. Oh you want to run a ton of man coverage because you've got the bigger faster athletes? Try living in a man world, when you're getting all kinds of crossers, boots, wheels, smash combinations, etc... Ask any DB if they want to be in man vs condensed sets - very rarely will you find a "yes."

The horse is and has been beaten to death. Let's move on..
south park beat a dead horse GIF
 
What about his “spread the field run tempo and score 50 a game while producing a Bilitnikoff winner” at Alabama?

He tried to do that for 2 years at Michigan too. It didn’t work with Michigan’s personnel and Harbaugh basically handed him his old Stanford playbook and told him this is what I want. 12 wins, a CFP appearance and the Broyles Award later…..

And here on the Lair we’re bashing him as being a lesser OC than Cignasty?

Locksley was the OC during that time.

Gattis was never the guy at Bama.

And I’m not saying Gattis is a lesser version of FCJ.

I’m saying the best offense is a complete 180 from both of them. And if you don’t like FCJ, you shouldn’t like Gattis either. Because it’s just more of the same.
 
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I wouldn't. Wondering if Michigan O was much more so Harbaugh than Gattis. It was just as good of not better than last year.

With much more talent than Pitt, The U had a worse O. That's not saying I wouldn't take a number of other OCs over Cignetti though.

Miami’s talent wasn’t geared to do what Gattis wants to do do. But to be fair to Miami, not many teams are.

The previous OC spread the field, went uptempo, and went with simple Air Raid passing concepts.

They helped to mask the bad OL. And Miami’s OL was bad. It was probably the biggest issue they had on offense in 2021.

Then Gattis comes in and runs an offense that doesn’t mask an OL’s problems, but instead puts a spotlight on them.

And honestly, even Harbaugh struggles with it. Go back and watch the first 3 quarters against Ohio State. Michigan ran the ball and ran the ball and ran the ball for nothing basically. A few broken plays in the passing game was their entire success. But the defense kept shutting down Ohio State, which allowed Harbaugh to keep bunching the box and running for little yards. Until finally in the 4th the defense collapsed for OSU.

It takes years to build an OL capable of running this offense. And even then it can be a struggle.
 
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Pitt had 262 yards passing and did that in 11 less attempts than Miami ...... Pitt had 9.4 yards per pass attempt (Miami 7.2 yards per attempt) so at that rate, if we passed 11 more times (to equal Miami's pass attempts) we would have had 375 yards ...... Miami also scored 7 points in the last 1:30 of the game with our 2nd and 3rd team players in.

Bottom line, Michigan's offense was just as good this year without Gattis as it was last season with him and Miami's offense was way worse this year (#86) with Gattis than it was last year without him (#19)..... in addition Gattis has never coached QB's and some Miami people say there was somewhat of a disconnect between Gattis and his QB's especially Tyler Van Dyke who was significantly worse this season even before he was injured than he was last year ....... I suspect all of this and maybe more caused Miami to want to make a change in their offense coordinator and offensive philosophy (and they want someone who they feel will develop TVD better) ....... Gattis will no doubt land on his feet somewhere else and be fine .....

Besides as cashisking884 said, I think Gattis and Cignetti run similar offenses and, if so, it may well be better to have Cignetti at Pitt this year because of his previous relationship and previous success with Jurkovec and because players are now used to his system and terminology rather than bring someone new in ...... long term who knows what would be best, probably depends on how the offense does this coming season.
Bottom line is Pitt’s offense was mediocre
Cignetti has a history of being mediocre and moving onto to another gig and being mediocre there
 
Bottom line is Pitt’s offense was mediocre
Cignetti has a history of being mediocre and moving onto to another gig and being mediocre there
Pitt offense #50 and Miami #86 in 2022-2023 ...... if Pitt offense was mediocre, Miami was terrible.
 
Bottom line is Pitt’s offense was mediocre
Cignetti has a history of being mediocre and moving onto to another gig and being mediocre there

Because he's largely been at schools that have mediocre talent.

He's a quality OC. Most OCs are interchangeable, and thus make great scapegoats. They produce when they have quality talent and struggle when they don't.
 
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Because he's largely been at schools that have mediocre talent.

He's a quality OC. Most OCs are interchangeable, and thus make great scapegoats. They produce when they have quality talent and struggle when they don't.
..... and no one is bashing Gattis as he is a good young coach, the bashing is of Cignetti ..... so let's look at their records as sole Offensive Coordinators over their careers (Gattis readily admitted that when he was co-OC at Alabama one year that his job was mainly in game prep and that Locksley called 100% of the plays all season so Gattis wasn't the main OC) ...... therefore, in D1, Gattis has been a teams only/solo OC in 4 seasons and Cignetti the same in 12 seasons ......

In his 4 seasons, Gattis has a record as an OC of 28-17 or a winning % of 0.622.
In his 12 seasons, Cignetti has a record as an OC of 95-58 or a winning % of 0.621.

Gattis has 2 losing seasons out of 4 (one was shortened 2020 season).
Cignetti has 1 losing season out of 12.

Gattis had a record of 23-10 at Michigan or a winning % of 0.696.
Cignetti has a record so far at Pitt of 27-12 or a winning % of 0.692.

Pretty similar results.
 
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Because he's largely been at schools that have mediocre talent.

He's a quality OC. Most OCs are interchangeable, and thus make great scapegoats. They produce when they have quality talent and struggle when they don't.

This doesn’t make sense.

If he just produces what the interchangeable OC off the street produces, then he isn’t a “quality” OC. He’s “just another OC.”
 
..... and no one is bashing Gattis as he is a good young coach, the bashing is of Cignetti ..... so let's look at their records as sole Offensive Coordinators over their careers (Gattis readily admitted that when he was co-OC at Alabama one year that his job was mainly in game prep and that Locksley called 100% of the plays all season so Gattis wasn't the main OC) ...... therefore, in D1, Gattis has been a teams only/solo OC in 4 seasons and Cignetti the same in 12 seasons ......

In his 4 seasons, Gattis has a record as an OC of 28-17 or a winning % of 0.622.
In his 12 seasons, Cignetti has a record as an OC of 95-58 or a winning % of 0.621.

Gattis has 2 losing seasons out of 4 (one was shortened 2020 season).
Cignetti has 1 losing season out of 12.

Gattis had a record of 23-10 at Michigan or a winning % of 0.696.
Cignetti has a record so far at Pitt of 27-12 or a winning % of 0.692.

Pretty similar results.

Why would you compare winning % as OCs?
 
Why would you compare winning % as OCs?
Obviously the head coach gets the wins and losses but as a general idea of how their teams did with them as OC's ....... admittedly there are much better criteria for OC, so your point is well taken !

If you use total offense as a criteria to evaluate OC's ....... in 4 years, Gattis teams have averaged a ranking of #64 (skewed by one great year at Michigan) and Cignetti teams in 12 years have averaged #66 (skewed by 2 great years at Fresno State) ........ in the last 3 years (since Cignetti came back to the college game), Gattis (at Michigan and Miami) teams averaged #63 and Cignetti (at BC and Pitt) #75 ...... Gattis in 3 years at Michigan averaged #57 in total offense and Cignetti in 3 years at Pitt has averaged #58 ........

In scoring offense, in 4 years Gattis teams average ranking is #56 and in 12 years Cignetti #53 ..... in the last 3 years, Gattis teams averaged #60 in scoring offense and Cignetti #68 ...... if you take out the Fresno State years from Cignetti's record (posters say that skews his record), then in his last 8 years that he has been an OC (without Fresno State) Cignetti's teams have averaged #60 in scoring offense.

I would say that even though he has coached at lower rated football schools, Cignetti's record stacks up very well compared to Gattis and I think highly of Gattis.
 
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