GOAT

[pittbb80]

Hate to say this but IMO Bill Belichick is the GOAT.

Think of what hes been able to do with no name guys on offense and defense over the years. Drafting in the late rounds, and making guys like Edelman, Dorset, and Friggin Hogan productive receivers. The Steelers have far more big name defenders and yet their defense is not championship quality like the pats year in and year out.

Yes yes had Brady but look at what the pats did with Jimmy G when brady was hurt........They may not have won as many SB's without Brady but dont kid yourself, they'd still be a great team without him. It will be interesting to see if BB retires when Brady does or continues to coach to prove his greatness without the GOAT QB.

I think theres about 10 other QBS this year BB would have gotten this far with........Brady is not near the QB he was earlier......and in fact theres 5 or 6 QBs who would make the pats better than they are this year if BB had them.

What hes done is remarkable in todays game.

 

[Smitch8989]

Can we stop with the patriot threads.. If u wanna talk about them go on there message boards.. It's bad enough that we have to listen to ESPN suck them off constantly we don't need it on here as well

 

[rmf05]

He actually did very well with the Browns as well and was starting to get them rolling. Its still tough to knock Lombardi off that top spot but what hoodie has done in a much larger and more competitive league over a longer period is pretty amazing. When you throw in his assistant days with those great Giants teams, its a great topic.

 

[ncyajleel]

He drafts and signs intelligent players, whereas the Steelers seem to find the dumbest players they can. He will pick up a Randy Moss or two type player every now and then, but for the most part he finds smart players. The 49ers used to do that back in the 80s.

Hate to say this but IMO Bill Belichick is the GOAT.

Think of what hes been able to do with no name guys on offense and defense over the years. Drafting in the late rounds, and making guys like Edelman, Dorset, and Friggin Hogan productive receivers. The Steelers have far more big name defenders and yet their defense is not championship quality like the pats year in and year out.

Yes yes had Brady but look at what the pats did with Jimmy G when brady was hurt........They may not have won as many SB's without Brady but dont kid yourself, they'd still be a great team without him. It will be interesting to see if BB retires when Brady does or continues to coach to prove his greatness without the GOAT QB.

I think theres about 10 other QBS this year BB would have gotten this far with........Brady is not near the QB he was earlier......and in fact theres 5 or 6 QBs who would make the pats better than they are this year if BB had them.

What hes done is remarkable in todays game.

 

[Mikefln]

He drafts and signs intelligent players, whereas the Steelers seem to find the dumbest players they can. He will pick up a Randy Moss or two type player every now and then, but for the most part he finds smart players. The 49ers used to do that back in the 80s.

Even with Brady he coaches a team not individuals. Even Brady and Gronk are team 1st guys. The moment you are not about team you are out of there.

 

[pittzap]

He actually did very well with the Browns as well and was starting to get them rolling. Its still tough to knock Lombardi off that top spot but what hoodie has done in a much larger and more competitive league over a longer period is pretty amazing. When you throw in his assistant days with those great Giants teams, its a great topic.

He did "very well" with the Browns??? He was 36-44 and had one winning season out of 5. He was not starting to get them rolling, as in his final year they were 5-11. It's not like the Browns during that time were like they are now. They were two years removed from being Division Champs and were in the playoffs from 1985 - 1989.

 

[pittmeister]

Belichick is a great coach, no doubt about it. However, I still believe that players make the difference. Brady is a once in a generation player. I’ve never seen a player lift a football team to another level the way he does. Only Michael Jordan is in that category if you look at the entire world of sports.

Yeah, I’m like everyone else, I’m suffering from Patriots overdose... But you have to admire greatness...

After saying that, I’ll be rooting for the Rams...

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Hate to say this but IMO Bill Belichick is the GOAT.

Think of what hes been able to do with no name guys on offense and defense over the years. Drafting in the late rounds, and making guys like Edelman, Dorset, and Friggin Hogan productive receivers. The Steelers have far more big name defenders and yet their defense is not championship quality like the pats year in and year out.

Yes yes had Brady but look at what the pats did with Jimmy G when brady was hurt........They may not have won as many SB's without Brady but dont kid yourself, they'd still be a great team without him. It will be interesting to see if BB retires when Brady does or continues to coach to prove his greatness without the GOAT QB.

I think theres about 10 other QBS this year BB would have gotten this far with........Brady is not near the QB he was earlier......and in fact theres 5 or 6 QBs who would make the pats better than they are this year if BB had them.

What hes done is remarkable in todays game.

Friggin ( I think that's his first name) Hogan is from Monmouth University a D3 nothing football U in NJ who plays other D3 nothing U's.

 

[Pitt79]

Friggin ( I think that's his first name) Hogan is from Monmouth University a D3 nothing football U in NJ who plays other D3 nothing U's.

Hogan played 3 years of lacrosse at Penn State, then had a year of eligibility left and played ONE YEAR of college football at Monmouth. 12 career catches in D3 college football

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hogan_(American_football)

 

[upj87]

He did "very well" with the Browns??? He was 36-44 and had one winning season out of 5. He was not starting to get them rolling, as in his final year they were 5-11. It's not like the Browns during that time were like they are now. They were two years removed from being Division Champs and were in the playoffs from 1985 - 1989.

Belichick is a great coach, no doubt about it. However, I still believe that players make the difference. Brady is a once in a generation player. I’ve never seen a player lift a football team to another level the way he does. Only Michael Jordan is in that category if you look at the entire world of sports.

Yeah, I’m like everyone else, I’m suffering from Patriots overdose... But you have to admire greatness...

After saying that, I’ll be rooting for the Rams...

you take Brady away form the Pats...who knows, Stick him behind a line with something short of the amazing protection he has been afforded up there and he, like most, is not that great. ... you take Jordan away form the Bulls and he is probably still the greatest ever. Phil Jackson did not make Jordan, Jordan. I kind of think Belechick and his system made Brady, Brady...

 

[pittmeister]

Even with Brady he coaches a team not individuals. Even Brady and Gronk are team 1st guys. The moment you are not about team you are out of there.

That’s why the Steelers will not win another Super Bowl until they get rid of the “me first” guys and those who coddle them (Tomlin).

The Patriots best player on the team is a leader (Brady).

The Steelers best players on the team (Roethlisberger, Bell, Brown) are not.

Belichick has intense practices with the players buying in.

Tomlin’s doesn’t have intense practices, with players showing up late, leaving early or not showing up at all.

Belichick has strict rules when it comes to social media...

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-engla...policy-following-Steelers-incident--50625877/

Tomlin does not....

Belichick enforces his discipline evenly (See Malcolm Butler and Super Bowl).

Tomlin does not. Example: “What do you want me to do? Bench him (Brown)?

I could go on and on....

 

[McKee Place]

This will send the thread off the rails no doubt, but it's a triumph more of discipline and commitment (aka personal character) of the players. Whether simply the greatest stretch of luck ever, or design, they have regularly assemble a collection of coaches and players that obsessively commit to The Process.

Other teams, especially the Steelers, may occasionally have more spectacular talent than they do (no, not as great as Brady at QB, and that's important, but guys like Ben R or Aaron Rodgers or the Manning's are not dog dooty either).

But either enough of the players on other teams lack that discipline or commitment (think: Bell, AB, dozens of others on other teams). Or the "playe friendly" coaches (plus some hard ass ones too, ie Coughlin) lack the skill and the will to continuously impose it.

Now that said, I'll be the first to acknowledge their cheating episodes of the past, possibly present too (they are so brilliant, maybe we can't even imagine what crap they're pulling). I'll never claim the NE ownership or HC have MORAL character.

But they certainly have a different kind of ... something, "ethic" seems distasteful to use with them .... a team first, team success commitment. That all others simply can't match, not for long anyway.

Depending on your political bent (here's where the derailment comes in), the patriots constant, ridiculous success (in a model designed for revolving cycles of great teams) might be construed as a woeful triumph of idealistic socialism over greedy individualism...or a woeful triumph of Nazism/fascism over glorious individualism.

 

[daminals76]

Delete this thread... irrelevant topic on a Pitt or any college board.

 

[pittbb80]

This will send the thread off the rails no doubt, but it's a triumph more of discipline and commitment (aka personal character) of the players. Whether simply the greatest stretch of luck ever, or design, they have regularly assemble a collection of coaches and players that obsessively commit to The Process.

Other teams, especially the Steelers, may occasionally have more spectacular talent than they do (no, not as great as Brady at QB, and that's important, but guys like Ben R or Aaron Rodgers or the Manning's are not dog dooty either).

But either enough of the players on other teams lack that discipline or commitment (think: Bell, AB, dozens of others on other teams). Or the "playe friendly" coaches (plus some hard ass ones too, ie Coughlin) lack the skill and the will to continuously impose it.

Now that said, I'll be the first to acknowledge their cheating episodes of the past, possibly present too (they are so brilliant, maybe we can't even imagine what crap they're pulling). I'll never claim the NE ownership or HC have MORAL character.

But they certainly have a different kind of ... something, "ethic" seems distasteful to use with them .... a team first, team success commitment. That all others simply can't match, not for long anyway.

Depending on your political bent (here's where the derailment comes in), the patriots constant, ridiculous success (in a model designed for revolving cycles of great teams) might be construed as a woeful triumph of idealistic socialism over greedy individualism...or a woeful triumph of Nazism/fascism over glorious individualism.

Agree with everything you said till the last paragraph......LOL

BB is the architect of the plan though which was my point. In todays age of me first athletes. he's developed a culture where winning is the top priority and he only takes on players who share those goals. He's taken on "bad actors" from other teams and done well with them because they were willing to set aside their egos to pursue a championship......when the no longer are willing to buy into the discipline and system...they are gone. Its a unique skill set and system hes developed. You would think coaches would be picking his brain

The Patriots RARELY have the best talent but they regularly have the Best TEAM

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Monmouth is FCS D1 scholarship level

 

[Pitt79]

Delete this thread... irrelevant topic on a Pitt or any college board.

Just don't read it? What do you want to talk about, who the best high school kids are? LOL.

 

[Pitt79]

triumph of idealistic socialism over greedy individualism...or a woeful triumph of Nazism/fascism over glorious individualism.

This is THE TRUTH, it's why China will soon surpass the USA.

 

[daminals76]

Just don't read it? What do you want to talk about, who the best high school kids are? LOL.

I wanna talk about Pitt football... how silly of me? Lol

 

[Pitt79]

I wanna talk about Pitt football... how silly of me? Lol

That makes it easy then, only read and reply to those threads about Pitt Football, and let everyone else, discuss what they prefer to discuss. SIMPLE.

 

[McKee Place]

Agree with everything you said till the last paragraph......LOL

BB is the architect of the plan though which was my point. In todays age of me first athletes. he's developed a culture where winning is the top priority and he only takes on players who share those goals. He's taken on "bad actors" from other teams and done well with them because they were willing to set aside their egos to pursue a championship......when the no longer are willing to buy into the discipline and system...they are gone. Its a unique skill set and system hes developed. You would think coaches would be picking his brain

The Patriots RARELY have the best talent but they regularly have the Best TEAM

Well, I wasn't drawing any conclusions in the last paragraph, just pointing out that two different people could spin the triumph of NE's success totally opposite ways ... like how you might read two totally different takes on Mao Zedong ... Lol

It's definitely a crazy exception, unlike college football, which functions EXACTLY as designed (an utterly fascist oligarchy) ... unfortunately.

Simply put... New England should not be successful like this. It simply can't be the quarterback. Not stretching over two decades, anyway. There are many good QBs. It's bigger.

Thankfully the rest of the league kind of functions as designed, different opponents, and it's not the Cowboys or Giants playing NE every year (as it could be based on their inherent advantages). Then it would be like college football, which is becoming less interesting every year.

Seeing NE in it all the time isn't interesting either but the exceptional aspect to the role nature is at least an interesting philosophical question.

 

[McKee Place]

Monmouth is FCS D1 scholarship level

I thought it was a disorder they warned you could get if you eat the catfish you catch in the 3 rivers ... lol

 

[pittbb80]

This is THE TRUTH, it's why China will soon surpass the USA.

have you ever been to China...........not a great place to live for sure.......

 

[Pitt79]

But if it is just BB running some kind of authoritarian socialist system, then why is nobody copying it? He's had multiple assistants go on to head coaching jobs, and it seems like none of them has been a success.

 

[Pitt79]

have you ever been to China...........not a great place to live for sure.......

Have you ever been? I've been to Scandinavian democratic socialist countries and they are awesome places. So have you been there? I'm not even talking about "are they great places to leave" I'm talking about winning overall.

 

[pittdan77]

Belichick is great because he pushes the boundaries, he isn't afraid to evolve with the game, and he has an owner that isn't afraid to pony up to keep talented coaches and players.

 

[pittbb80]

Have you ever been? I've been to Scandinavian democratic socialist countries and they are awesome places. So have you been there? I'm not even talking about "are they great places to leave" I'm talking about winning overall.

Many times.........and not just in Bejing and Shanghai.

Sure the Chinese Goverment is Powerful........because most of the people live in conditions most here in the US would consider abject poverty.

 

[Pitt79]

Many times.........and not just in Bejing and Shanghai.

Sure the Chinese Goverment is Powerful........because most of the people live in conditions most here in the US would consider abject poverty.

That's what I'm talking about, I'd gladly force the Pitt players and the Steelers players to live in abject poverty if the overall result was more championships.

 

[pittbb80]

That's what I'm talking about, I'd gladly force the Pitt players and the Steelers players to live in abject poverty if the overall result was more championships.

LOL

Im talking about actually living in a socialist/communist country.

 

[Pitt79]

LOL

Im talking about actually living in a socialist/communist country.

Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, even Germany are very socialist and they are great places to live.

 

[McKee Place]

But if it is just BB running some kind of authoritarian socialist system, then why is nobody copying it? He's had multiple assistants go on to head coaching jobs, and it seems like none of them has been a success.

I think others have tried. It might work a couple years, then wears thin and crumbles. Egos grow, divas bring the thing down from within. Individuals corrupt the team. Seattle was a poster boy like that. Thought they'd be really good for years with Wilson and major athletic skill players. Weasels like Sherman and the diva running back (both now in the bay, natch) wouldn't go along, though. Now they are gone, but the team is just meh.

The Packers came closer, but just forced out a tremendous coach that they finally tuned out. That one kinda shocked me.

Steelers are just the latest example of it, and it's not just Bell or AB acting like douches, but also Ben refusing to take direction from any coordinator, etc. Tomlin lost his leadership gravitas, but he's hardly the first or last coach that will.

Even if most guys act mature, key players or coaches simply leave. It just happens. The new ones aren't good enough, or won't or can't buy in to the system as well etc.. That's actually by the league design; it wants cyclical winners.

All these things have happened with NE too. Tons of guys leave, crazy numbers of really valuable guys and even Brady has had injuries at times. They just roll along.

Luckily the NFC rep sometimes pulls a good enough collection together for a year, to beat them at times in the SB, or it would really be ridiculous.

 

[Pitt79]

Luckily the NFC rep sometimes pulls a good enough collection together for a year, to beat them at times in the SB, or it would really be ridiculous.

Since they won 3 of 4 between 2001-04, from 2005 forward, NE has won only TWO of the last 13 Super Bowls, so while they are always good, they aren't perennial Super Bowl winners, even though it seems like it. Since 2005, here are the teams with the most Super Bowl victories,

Patriots 2
Steelers 2
NYG 2

 

[rmf05]

He did "very well" with the Browns??? He was 36-44 and had one winning season out of 5. He was not starting to get them rolling, as in his final year they were 5-11. It's not like the Browns during that time were like they are now. They were two years removed from being Division Champs and were in the playoffs from 1985 - 1989.

He inherited an absolute mess despite how good they were in the 80's. They tanked very badly, very quickly. I remember them being in the playoffs one year with BB with a very good young team and were favorites to be the AFC team in the SB by most folks the next year. Fortunately, they were obliterated by injuries that season and finished at 5-11 or something similar and the Steelers won the division. I vaguely remember the Brown's firing him that year and everyone in the national media going bonkers about how stupid it was. Who knows though, I could be mis-remembering.

 

[wbrpanther]

Hate to say this but IMO Bill Belichick is the GOAT.

Think of what hes been able to do with no name guys on offense and defense over the years. Drafting in the late rounds, and making guys like Edelman, Dorset, and Friggin Hogan productive receivers. The Steelers have far more big name defenders and yet their defense is not championship quality like the pats year in and year out.

Yes yes had Brady but look at what the pats did with Jimmy G when brady was hurt........They may not have won as many SB's without Brady but dont kid yourself, they'd still be a great team without him. It will be interesting to see if BB retires when Brady does or continues to coach to prove his greatness without the GOAT QB.

I think theres about 10 other QBS this year BB would have gotten this far with........Brady is not near the QB he was earlier......and in fact theres 5 or 6 QBs who would make the pats better than they are this year if BB had them.

What hes done is remarkable in todays game.

Bill Belichek is definitely ONE OF THE BEST ever. No question. Give the man his due.

Let's stop with the GOAT talk because that is something that is impossible to prove.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Belichick is great because he pushes the boundaries, he isn't afraid to evolve with the game, and he has an owner that isn't afraid to pony up to keep talented coaches and players.

What things has he done to evolve with the game?

 

[upj87]

Bill Belichek is definitely ONE OF THE BEST ever. No question. Give the man his due.

Let's stop with the GOAT talk because that is something that is impossible to prove.

wins and titles way above and beyond everyone else takes makes the impossible very possible..

 

[upj87]

What things has he done to evolve with the game?

having throw away little white guy receivers and running backs dominate football games and finding success with "has beens" seems pretty evolutionary to me..

 

[Jakey_John]

wins and titles way above and beyond everyone else takes makes the impossible very possible..

Except 40% of his championships are arguably tainted. I get it, if the shoe was on the Steelers foot I’d say “so what?”

In any event the organization has been questioned at least twice in regards to dishonesty and underhanded tactics under his watch so it is entirely possible to argue that he is not the GOAT.

 

[Pitt79]

Except 40% of his championships are arguably tainted. I get it, if the shoe was on the Steelers foot I’d say “so what?”

In any event the organization has been questioned at least twice in regards to dishonesty and underhanded tactics under his watch so it is entirely possible to argue that he is not the GOAT.

I'd proudly wear the label of "tainted", who cares?

 

[daminals76]

That makes it easy then, only read and reply to those threads about Pitt Football, and let everyone else, discuss what they prefer to discuss. SIMPLE.

Not very simple when nonsense like this is clogging up the board...

 

[pittdan77]

What things has he done to evolve with the game?

He has basically created a "plug and play" system full of interchangeable parts (so long as they don't drop passes) in the dink and dunk. That's why you have a former QB and an college lacrosse player with huge roles in their success.