I will leave this here....
- Thread starter ChiefJusticeMarshall
- Start date
All I get out of that is changing coaches isn’t a silver bullet
TIL the Jets can win a playoff game without making the playoffs.
The Jets haven’t lost a playoff game since 2010. The Broncos haven’t lost a playoff game since before winning the 2015 Super Bowl.
The point here is the Steelers should never be in this mongrel group.
Coaching matters, but talent matters more.
Steelers D doesn’t play up to the highest paid. And the offense just sucks. Every one on that side of the ball is just a guy to some degree except for Pickens.. And he’s an immature asswipe. Frazier looks like he could be more eventually.
Steelers D doesn’t play up to the highest paid. And the offense just sucks. Every one on that side of the ball is just a guy to some degree except for Pickens.. And he’s an immature asswipe. Frazier looks like he could be more eventually.
Tomlin Construction Company. He builds it and dismantles his LLC. Then your house falls over three weeks later and you're screwed. Patchwork, baby. MASH unit. Bandage 'er up! Alien Tape to the rescue!
Yeah that is what it looks like to me, too. Teams that change coaches every two to three years don't have a great chance of winning playoff games.
Are some of those figures inflated by interim coaches? I assume so. I hate when people count those.
Yeah, I agree with Druid and you, the thing that really hits you over the head about that is changing HC’s 3-4 times is no silver bullet to change a team’s fortunes. But, hopefully, we all know that already. Have to hire the right coach plus the right GM and then have that braintrust draft/acquire the right talent.
The Dolphins have tried ten different coaches in their quest to win a third Super Bowl. The Raiders are on their fourteenth in quest of number four.
I don't think anyone's plan has ever been "let's hire a new coach every other season for the next 8 years and see how it goes."
What gets annoying is when people (not saying you) cite these ridiculous instances as cautionary tales against firing a guy who has been here 17 years.
All that talented isn't coached up well enough. They depend on winning one-on-one matchups to succeed and when they don't, the Steelers coaches rarely have an answer.
I hear you. I think we do have a good number that have that view about not firing a coach because ‘who you going to get any better’. We hear that all the time with PN, heard it with JD, on and on. And we obviously know from experience that HC changes can easily not work and make things worse.
I’m not that type, I’m all for making a change if you’re not happy with the results and want to improve, and am not afraid of making it worse. Basically, you have the wrong people in charge if those people are hesitant to make a change because they’re afraid of making things worse.
Chief’s example though clearly indicates it’s not a slam dunk solution to making things better.
Well, you could also keep your guy forever and never win another playoff game. It ain't going to happen this year. Baltimore is going to beat the snot out of our smooth talking standard is the standard fraud!
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“winning one-on-one matchups“
I actually don’t know which is worse with the Steelers D. They don’t have the talent to play man and win those one-on-one matchups. But I think they’re even worse when playing zone. In zone, guys are constantly wide wide open, at least in man, they’re only beaten by a step or two usually. Blame has to go mostly to the coaches for their deficiencies in zone
Talent does matter. Tomlin is at least partially responsible for what he has to work with. He keeps drafting receivers that could double as scarecrows, because they have nothing upstairs. Their defense is an overpaid scrap heap. Keeping that 500 record in tact insures that you will not get a high impact game changer because you never get to draft high enough. Nobody should take this team seriously anymore. Losing 4 in a row and soon to be 5, is the type of work that would get you relieved of your duties if the franchise was serious about winning anything.
Hey I’m not implying it absolutely might not be time.
But the Steelers compared with many have enjoyed much more quality teams than a large chunk of others .
It’s a crap shoot
And we ALL know as Pitt fans the revolving door doesn’t work. We tried that for 40 years… although who knows what stability means anymore in this NIL environment
My problem is that the way the NFL is structured is you need to take your lumps to get better. You can't finish in the middle of the pack every year and get difference makers with late 1st round picks. We had to suck to get big Ben all those years ago. Mediocrity in the NFL breeds more mediocrity. Watching the lions tonight, they have 7 1st round picks on their offense. That is why they are almost unstoppable. The Lions sucked forever, but got the right coach and made some great picks.
What we have going on in Pittsburgh needs to be ended now! This will soon be a decade of underperforming antiquated football philosophy with absolutely no signs of any improvement. Just run the ball and play great D. It can work with elite coaches and players. We have neither. Time to hit the reset button.
There’s truth in what you’re saying but it also seems counterintuitive to think your biggest complaint with the Steelers is that they haven’t sucked bad enough.
Assuming youre counting Goff, when Fields is starting don't the Steelers have a decent number of 1st and 2nd round picks on their offense too when healthy?
Fields
Harris
Pickens
2 or 3 OL
Both TEs
Well I guess that's the difference between Steelers and the Lions ... Steelers got a bunch of second rounders spread in there. Lions have 1st round guys. One is good enough to get you 10 wins, the other is good enough to make you a super bowl contender.
It's obvious that QBs are vital. The QBs of the top teams in the playoffs are Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Goff, Darnold, Hurts. I believe they were all high draft picks, with the exception of Jackson (end of round 1) and Hurts (round 2). Interestingly, they are all around the same age, too. At least at the moment, it looks like there is a sweet spot for QBs around 4-8 years in the league. Stroud had a sophomore slump, trying to win with a QB on a rookie deal might be tough in the current state of the league (although Mahomes did it).
People make it seem like the 80s were a complete cluster - well it wasn't. And that's coming off of 4 Super Bowls and picking last or at the very bottom of the draft for almost a decade.
Steelers 80s Record
That is an interesting way of stating my issue. I am simply not satisfied with being average. Ownership and the staff seem to have become content with it. The Steelers, in my lifetime have been about challenging for championships. That apparently, is no longer the goal.
Some owners are notorious for mismanaging their franchise. Most of the clubs on that list are good examples. Miami and the Raiders are both really good examples.
I'm not sure if the point of that post was to shame Tomlin or to point out that things could be just as messed up with other coaches. Although I do think that if you're widely considered to be this outstanding and irreplaceable coach, and don't deliver a playoff run once in a while, you're probably not in much better shape than anyone else on that list.
the 20's, 2020's, could go down as the worst decade for steelers dating back to the 1960s. the 80s, we had some playoff wins including the broncos in 84 and the oilers in 89.
crazy because alot of people look back at the steelers in the 80s and dont have great memories of that decade. in reality, we were 2 points away from being in the conference championship game in 89. also one game away in 1984 too but i believe Dan the Man rolled us pretty good..
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The "who are you going to get that's better" is night and day different for the Steelers and Pitt, though.
Tomlin is the 2nd highest paid coach in NFL history. He has an unprecedented amount of job security despite 10 years of mediocrity (he did manage a positive point differential for the 2nd time in the last 6 years at least!). The Steelers also have a history of making good hires. Literally every coach they've had for 50 years is a HoFer. Anyone would want to coach here.
Pitt is very different because college football isn't played on an even field. Guys won't be jumping all over themselves to coach for the 40th best program that is geographically bounded by National Championship winners and CFP teams.
I'm literally done if they do that lol. I'll be an Eagles fan or I'll just watch Sunday Ticket for fantasy football (which is mostly where I'm at anyway since at least my fantasy teams win championships, unlike the Steelers).
Jackson would be a 5 pick now though. He had 10x the profile of Anthony Richardson.
The staff's vision is still to run the ball and play good defense. It is an outdated philosophy. The teams that are challenging for the superbowl all can score. Look at Jamyrr Gibbs vs. Najee Harris. This is the most obvious example of where the Steelers are making a mistake. Harris was a 1st round pick who is a strong back but also a plodder who can't break off a big run. Gibbs, on the other hand, is a good runner, great pass catcher and a threat to take it to the house any time he touches it. Gibbs gives you explosive plays. Najee gives you 2 and 3 yard gains. If the Steelers want to compete with the big boys, their philosophy must change. You only get one 1st round pick a year, you have to get great players.
I don’t know if it was an interesting way to state your issue but it seemed to be pretty accurate, your post was pretty directly complaining that the Steelers haven’t sucked bad enough, or “taken their lumps” enough in order to get enough high draft picks to put 7 1st rounders on the field on one side of the ball.
But you’re definitely not alone, there are a good number herein pretty much complaining over and over that the Steelers never suck bad enough or long enough. There’s a lot of things to complain about with the Steelers but it’s amazing that’s one of the most frequent complaints.
What's the money line ?
Thinking of throwing down like 500 on the Ravens, what would you get like a measly 100 bucks ?
Thinking of throwing down like 500 on the Ravens, what would you get like a measly 100 bucks ?
Doesn’t seem to me that the ownership and staff are content with it. That's why they drafted Kenny Pickett. That’s also why they dumped Kenny Pickett and brought in Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. Why they finally dumped Canada and brought in Smith. Why they brought in the guy from Philly to serve as assistant GM (or whatever title he has) and to spearhead their draft strategy to build offensive and defensive lines like in Philly, etc.
Again, a lot of things to complain about with the Steelers, the moves they’ve made with staff hires and player acquisitions haven’t elevated them from a little better than average to elite. But it is inaccurate to say they haven’t tried and are satisfied with mediocre.
And don’t you think the Steelers already came to that realization? That’s why they didn’t pick up Najee’s option year and why he more than likely won’t be a Steeler next year unless it’s for a bargain price.
Maybe they have. The point is, they have been making mistake after mistake in the draft, and the Minkah trade was also a mistake. They are making these mistakes because of their philosophy. They want defense and a running game. This staff is stubborn as hell, they don't want to change. How about hiring an OC who doesn't want to play 1970's football and then draft accordingly. If Tomlin doesn't want to do that, he needs to go.
I would like to see the Steelers trade Watt and commit to a 3-year rebuild. Ain't happening under Tomlin, though.
But if you trade/get rid of Watt, Minkah, Pickens, Heyward, etc. you're setting yourself up to have a bad team (i.e. a couple high draft picks), BUT you're also building a solid foundation in that you're letting Jones, Frazier, Fautanu, Benton, etc. gain valuable experience.
It's all about the lines, man. Then you can add your QB - preferably via the draft - in 2026 or 2027, plug in a few other positions (WR, CB, edge, etc.), and you're ready to go.
But if you trade/get rid of Watt, Minkah, Pickens, Heyward, etc. you're setting yourself up to have a bad team (i.e. a couple high draft picks), BUT you're also building a solid foundation in that you're letting Jones, Frazier, Fautanu, Benton, etc. gain valuable experience.
It's all about the lines, man. Then you can add your QB - preferably via the draft - in 2026 or 2027, plug in a few other positions (WR, CB, edge, etc.), and you're ready to go.
