Keatts at NC State out

[Tvax1]

Hopeless to be a national contender yes , hopeless to be a decent program that’s a borderline tournament team no .


The history of the past fifty years of Pitt Bb excellence was when the Golden Panthers were involved and the Howland early Dixon era the rest of those years mediocre best describes the program . Like it or not Pitt is not a historical excellent Bb school .

11 of 13 years with Jamie and 2 #1 seeds

and you're quite ok with the disaster since and the current loser that they pay top 25 but get far less in return

you'd be great to work for, not that I'd ever be able to tolerate things if I ever wanted things done at a high level

 

[Tvax1]

What don’t you get , Pitt doesn’t have the booster support and they’ve lost more than half of their season ticket holders . The damn place is empty .

You’re also confusing Pitt with schools who truly value excellence in sports , they seem to be more interested in being know for educational excellence…..imagine that !

they pay Capel top 25 and that puts him near the top of the ACC

why bother if nothing else is in place or expected? charity for Jeff?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Imagine Capel (or any other coach for that matter) saying "no, I have all the support and everything I need to make the tournament. I'd ask that you please ignore the fact that I didn't actually make it this year. Or last year. Or six of my seven years. But yeah, everything else is fine."

I guarantee you those discussions behind closed doors with the new AD will be about how to increase funding for the NIL .

Not defending JC , but he took over probably the worst D1 job in the country .

 

[New York Panther]

Classic case of what have you done for me lately. Keatts wins the ACC Tournament and goes to the Final Four last year, but gets fired this year. Pretty crappy.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

they pay Capel top 25 and that puts him near the top of the ACC

why bother if nothing else is in place or expected? charity for Jeff?

Your problem is with Heather , the chancellor and BOT . They okayed the contract .

I personally don’t care what they pay JC and his staff that’s Pitts business decisions . If they felt like you and didn’t mind wasting 18 million they’d fire him ….which they won’t .

I’d simply like to see better players wearing Panther uniforms and they’d win more games , like it or not the only solution now a days is to outbid other programs for talent .

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Classic case of what have you done for me lately. Keatts wins the ACC Tournament and goes to the Final Four last year, but gets fired this year. Pretty crappy.

NC St was down 12 in the 1st half to that abysmal Louisville team in Round 1 last year. And up only 3 with 2:30 left. Lose that game and Keatts was surely going to be fired. He probably would have been fired if he lost the next game or 2 but the miracle run saved his job and got him a token extension, with apparently no buyout increase. Hear that Heather?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

11 of 13 years with Jamie and 2 #1 seeds

and you're quite ok with the disaster since and the current loser that they pay top 25 but get far less in return

you'd be great to work for, not that I'd ever be able to tolerate things if I ever wanted things done at a high level

Do you pay JC salary ? Why do you care what they pay him ? Do you think I negotiated the contract for the university ? Do you share in the profits of the Bb program ?

I hope you realize I didn’t give him the contract and I just don’t believe they are willing to buy him out . It’s not worth 18 mil .

Want him out call the AD and fund the buyout !

Forcing JD out like they did they got what they deserved.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

NC St was down 12 in the 1st half to that abysmal Louisville team in Round 1 last year. And up only 3 with 2:30 left. Lose that game and Keatts was surely going to be fired. He probably would have been fired if he lost the next game or 2 but the miracle run saved his job and got him a token extension, with apparently no buyout increase. Hear that Heather?

Buyout was 7 million .

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

I have no idea, I just realize I have no idea .

Saying that I’m willing to guess that it’s not in the top tier of the ACC . A good guess would be in the middle and that’s exactly where they’re at .

They aren't in the middle, as they are 13th of 18 teams this year.

And Capel definitely isn't the middle of the coaching salaries in the conference.

 

[Tvax1]

Do you pay JC salary ? Why do you care what they pay him ? Do you think I negotiated the contract for the university ? Do you share in the profits of the Bb program ?

I hope you realize I didn’t give him the contract and I just don’t believe they are willing to buy him out . It’s not worth 18 mil .

Want him out call the AD and fund the buyout !

Forcing JD out like they did they got what they deserved.

I simply expect more because THEY pay it and THEY should expect more

the criticism is of those that expect less

I think Lyke has proven to be idiotic in extending him and paying what she did and the BOT and whomever was involved but also anyone that is OK with where we are

I will help fund when I know they are doing something to own up for their part in committing to at least the potential for success, that they forced out Jamie is irrelevant at this point but today has to be fixed for what is the future

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They aren't in the middle, as they are 13th of 18 teams this year.

And Capel definitely isn't the middle of the coaching salaries in the conference.

To be fair, they finished tied for 9th.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

To be fair, they finished tied for 9th.

When you've lost head to head to all but 1 of those teams, you aren't really tied with them as the tournament seeding showed.

But Capel isn't tied for 9th in salary, so my point remains regardless. There are a lot of Pitt fans who like to claim Pitt is cheap to justify their substandard donations compared to Pitt's peers, but it hasn't been true for a long time.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

When you've lost head to head to all but 1 of those teams, you aren't really tied with them as the tournament seeding showed.

But Capel isn't tied for 9th in salary, so my point remains regardless. There are a lot of Pitt fans who like to claim Pitt is cheap to justify their substandard donations compared to Pitt's peers, but it hasn't been true for a long time.

Losing tiebreakers for a tournament doesn't mean they didn't finish tied for 9th.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

Losing tiebreakers for a tournament doesn't mean they didn't finish tied for 9th.

Okay, hang a banner from the rafters if they'd like.

Like I said it doesn't matter as Capel is paid significantly more than all of the coaches he is tied with and all indications are that he has a comparable or better NIL budget.

The only reason he isn't joining Keatts on the unemployment line is that he was handsomely rewarded for basically meeting expectations a few years ago.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Okay, hang a banner from the rafters if they'd like.

Like I said it doesn't matter as Capel is paid significantly more than all of the coaches he is tied with and all indications are that he has a comparable or better NIL budget.

The only reason he isn't joining Keatts on the unemployment line is that he was handsomely rewarded for basically meeting expectations a few years ago.

He is tied with VT, who our players make about $2 million/year more than. Outstanding job by Mike Young. He's my vote for Coach of the Year.

Pitt Basketball 2024-25
Almost got a first-round bye

 

[FireballZ]

He is tied with VT, who our players make about $2 million/year more than. Outstanding job by Mike Young. He's my vote for Coach of the Year.

Pitt Basketball 2024-25
Almost got a first-round bye

Message board genius worthy…

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Message board genius worthy…

I was being sarcastic about hanging a banner that read "almost got a 1st Round bye"

Other banners that should be hung:

Pitt Football 2024
Started 7-0

Penn State football 2024-25
Beat SMU and Boise State

Tennessee football 2024
A lot of fans traveled to our CFP game (didn't make this one up)

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Like it or not Pitt is not a historical excellent Bb school

And again, there is no one who has ever said that Pitt is a historically excellent basketball school.

The fact that you can't seem to get that there is some middle ground between "historically excellent basketball school" and "made the play in game once in seven seasons" says a lot. And none of it is good.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

And again, there is no one who has ever said that Pitt is a historically excellent basketball school.

The fact that you can't seem to get that there is some middle ground between "historically excellent basketball school" and "made the play in game once in seven seasons" says a lot. And none of it is good.

And that’s exactly where they are the last three yrs , a bubble team .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And that’s exactly where they are the last three yrs , a bubble team .

Yes, and most people are rightly not satisfied with that. You, on the other hand, seem to think that nothing better than that is even theoretically possible.

Like I said, it's as if you don't understand that there is, in fact, a middle ground between "historically excellent basketball school" and "bubble team in a good year".

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Yes, and most people are rightly not satisfied with that. You, on the other hand, seem to think that nothing better than that is even theoretically possible.

Like I said, it's as if you don't understand that there is, in fact, a middle ground between "historically excellent basketball school" and "bubble team in a good year".

And when enough boosters fund their NIL sufficiently maybe they could be better , but until then this is what you get .

You seem to think this is what I find acceptable, it’s not , but I’m realistic and under the current circumstances expecting more is unrealistic.

Let’s not forget the university has sabotaged their programs so many times through the years and there’s no better example than forcing out the best Bb coach the university has ever had . Why would anyone want to fund such incompetence?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And when enough boosters fund their NIL sufficiently maybe they could be better , but until then this is what you get .

You seem to think this is what I find acceptable, it’s not , but I’m realistic and under the current circumstances expecting more is unrealistic.

Let’s not forget the university has sabotaged their programs so many times through the years and there’s no better example than forcing out the best Bb coach the university has ever had . Why would anyone want to fund such incompetence?

Do you think we had a sufficient NIL budget this past off-season to field a team capable of making the NCAAT?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Do you think we had a sufficient NIL budget this past off-season to field a team capable of making the NCAAT?

It's pretty clear that he doesn't.

Of course it's just as clear that he is clueless.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's pretty clear that he doesn't.

Of course it's just as clear that he is clueless.

I dont understand how much money he thinks we needed to spend to make the NCAAT. WVU is going by paying just 1 guy. Their NIL payroll is probably around 500K. VT finished tied with us and their payroll is probably around 100K. Ours is in the $2 million neighborhood, certainly not lower than $1.5 million. If this team had one guy who could rebound, we may have made the NCAAT. Corhen wasnt cheap. Had we spent that money on a better big or a worse offensive big but who rebounded and defended better, that could have done the trick.

Dunn also wasnt free. Had we used that money on a Greg Elliot type, we probably make the NCAAT. Roster composition was flawed and not due to money. We had no defensive wing, no rebounder/rim protector, and no shooter.

 

[TD_6082]

Who do they hire? I think it's gotta be Will Wade. Guaranteed to be near the top of the ACC. Can they steal an SEC coach? Chris Beard?

Ryan Odom is probably in play here. He has a prior relationship with the NCSU AD.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Ryan Odom is probably in play here. He has a prior relationship with the NCSU AD.

He's the backup if Wade says no. And that's a heck of a good backup.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Do you think we had a sufficient NIL budget this past off-season to field a team capable of making the NCAAT?

It's pretty clear that he doesn't.

Of course it's just as clear that he is clueless.

In regards to the NIL kitty you experts are also clueless. At least I realize I have no idea !

My circumstantial evidence is the roster . The idea is to constantly improve your roster and losing Blake and Bub ( plus Fede ) made that just about impossible .

Would you trade Blake , Bud and Fede for Cam , Dunn , Cummings , Amsal and Ndiaya ? I wouldn’t and I don’t think the staff would either . Bottom line their roster regressed , but you experts expected them to be better .

They added Amsal very late because they knew they desperately needed someone who could score from the perimeter, you think they didn’t realize that earlier and were unable to add that piece ? Why ?

Recruiting and retaining players now a days revolves around two things and one is much more important than the other . If you’re fighting for PT then you’re not that indispensable, but if you can play it’s all about the MONEY aka NIL .

Money would’ve bought them the experienced perimeter shooter they needed , I think they expected more out of Cam and Papa .

 

[Tvax1]

In regards to the NIL kitty you experts are also clueless. At least I realize I have no idea !

My circumstantial evidence is the roster . The idea is to constantly improve your roster and losing Blake and Bub ( plus Fede ) made that just about impossible .

Would you trade Blake , Bud and Fede for Cam , Dunn , Cummings , Amsal and Ndiaya ? I wouldn’t and I don’t think the staff would either . Bottom line their roster regressed , but you experts expected them to be better .

They added Amsal very late because they knew they desperately needed someone who could score from the perimeter, you think they didn’t realize that earlier and were unable to add that piece ? Why ?

Recruiting and retaining players now a days revolves around two things and one is much more important than the other . If you’re fighting for PT then you’re not that indispensable, but if you can play it’s all about the MONEY aka NIL .

Money would’ve bought them the experienced perimeter shooter they needed , I think they expected more out of Cam and Papa .

yeah, all that

or you're clueless and don't assign enough to the poor coaching including talent acquisition and development that hasn't ALWAYS been terrible but even with extremely good luck last year he couldn't make the NCAAT plus the fact that in the last 5 years(I will give him 2 due to the disastrous starting point) that well paid coach hasn't made that happen more than once.....well unless they win a few in a row starting today

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Do you pay JC salary ? Why do you care what they pay him ? Do you think I negotiated the contract for the university ? Do you share in the profits of the Bb program ?

I hope you realize I didn’t give him the contract and I just don’t believe they are willing to buy him out . It’s not worth 18 mil .

Want him out call the AD and fund the buyout !

Forcing JD out like they did they got what they deserved.

Sorry, but JD wasn't forced out.

 

[Frabjous]

Hopeless to be a national contender yes , hopeless to be a decent program that’s a borderline tournament team no .


The history of the past fifty years of Pitt Bb excellence was when the Golden Panthers were involved and the Howland early Dixon era the rest of those years mediocre best describes the program . Like it or not Pitt is not a historical excellent Bb school .

Well , I'm old enough to remember Brian Generalovich…

 

[Fsgolfdr]

yeah, all that

or you're clueless and don't assign enough to the poor coaching including talent acquisition and development that hasn't ALWAYS been terrible but even with extremely good luck last year he couldn't make the NCAAT plus the fact that in the last 5 years(I will give him 2 due to the disastrous starting point) that well paid coach hasn't made that happen more than once.....well unless they win a few in a row starting today

You’re right Pitt should fire JC and pay him his 18 million then go out and hire the hottest coach out there that’s available for 5 or 6 million a yr . Next they need to find several whales to fund the NIL so this great new coach can get players good enough to satisfy you . Yeah that’s going to happen !

Nice dream , now come back to reality , Pitt is a school limited in resources whose athletic department is colored in red ink . Whose Fb and Bb teams play to half full ( at best ) houses . You’re fixated on how much money JC makes and that’s exactly the reason he’s going nowhere . You want better results donate a couple of million to the NIL !

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

In regards to the NIL kitty you experts are also clueless. At least I realize I have no idea !

My circumstantial evidence is the roster . The idea is to constantly improve your roster and losing Blake and Bub ( plus Fede ) made that just about impossible .

Would you trade Blake , Bud and Fede for Cam , Dunn , Cummings , Amsal and Ndiaya ? I wouldn’t and I don’t think the staff would either . Bottom line their roster regressed , but you experts expected them to be better .

They added Amsal very late because they knew they desperately needed someone who could score from the perimeter, you think they didn’t realize that earlier and were unable to add that piece ? Why ?

Recruiting and retaining players now a days revolves around two things and one is much more important than the other . If you’re fighting for PT then you’re not that indispensable, but if you can play it’s all about the MONEY aka NIL .

Money would’ve bought them the experienced perimeter shooter they needed , I think they expected more out of Cam and Papa .

You do realize that sports franchises overpay/misevaluate players all the time right?

Your evidence of who is on the roster is as speculative as what SMF is doing.

 

[Tvax1]

You’re right Pitt should fire JC and pay him his 18 million then go out and hire the hottest coach out there that’s available for 5 or 6 million a yr . Next they need to find several whales to fund the NIL so this great new coach can get players good enough to satisfy you . Yeah that’s going to happen !

Nice dream , now come back to reality , Pitt is a school limited in resources whose athletic department is colored in red ink . Whose Fb and Bb teams play to half full ( at best ) houses . You’re fixated on how much money JC makes and that’s exactly the reason he’s going nowhere . You want better results donate a couple of million to the NIL !

they aren't getting a couple of million out of me , no more than

they have options that cost less than what you wrote, and if done right can set up the next decade for success

or not do much other than hope the Pete doesn't empty more and the locked in costs drag everything deeper

I'd take hiring someone near 1M x 4-5 years and sitting the well paid coach and giving all else money available to NIL, nobody is likely to do worse than HCJC and it costs 4-5M and has a chance for success......I think that compromise could work even if also not realistic

something unrealistic needs to be done if not this year, then next and no later!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You’re right Pitt should fire JC and pay him his 18 million then go out and hire the hottest coach out there that’s available for 5 or 6 million a yr . Next they need to find several whales to fund the NIL so this great new coach can get players good enough to satisfy you . Yeah that’s going to happen !

Nice dream , now come back to reality , Pitt is a school limited in resources whose athletic department is colored in red ink . Whose Fb and Bb teams play to half full ( at best ) houses . You’re fixated on how much money JC makes and that’s exactly the reason he’s going nowhere . You want better results donate a couple of million to the NIL !

If they hired Odom, Wade, Calhoun, or Mack, they'd be in the NCAAT in Year 1 or Year 2 even if it meant they'd have below average NIL money. Coaching in college basketball means a ton. Its so different than football.

 

[TD_6082]

If they hired Odom, Wade, Calhoun, or Mack, they'd be in the NCAAT in Year 1 or Year 2 even if it meant they'd have below average NIL money. Coaching in college basketball means a ton. Its so different than football.

You also need players. Your "ACC coach of the year" in Blacksburg isn't anywhere close to getting a NCAAT bid. Both are important.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Sorry, but JD wasn't forced out.

He was forced out. Fact.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

If they hired Odom, Wade, Calhoun, or Mack, they'd be in the NCAAT in Year 1 or Year 2 even if it meant they'd have below average NIL money. Coaching in college basketball means a ton. Its so different than football.

When you shoot 18% from 3 36% overall and get out rebounded that’s on the players not the coaches .

Great coaches have great players .

Great coaches win championships when they have the talent

Great coaches will lose when their team shoots 18% from 3 and gets out rebounded

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

At least I realize I have no idea !

You say that you have no idea, but you also say that Pitt doesn't have enough money.

You understand that those two things are opposites, right? If you "know" that Pitt doesn't have enough money they you do, in fact, think that you have an idea.

I mean you actually are right in that you don't have any idea. But you can't say you don't know literally in the same thread where you say that it's obvious that Pitt doesn't have enough.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You also need players. Your "ACC coach of the year" in Blacksburg isn't anywhere close to getting a NCAAT bid. Both are important.

It's not his fault that VT de-emphasized basketball. What be did with no NIL is incredible.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

You say that you have no idea, but you also say that Pitt doesn't have enough money.

You understand that those two things are opposites, right? If you "know" that Pitt doesn't have enough money they you do, in fact, think that you have an idea.

I mean you actually are right in that you don't have any idea. But you can't say you don't know literally in the same thread where you say that it's obvious that Pitt doesn't have enough.

Proof is in the pudding !

If they had enough money Maleek Thomas wouldn’t be going to Arkansas nor would Adou Thiero be there now .

Insisting that money isn’t an issue with the talent available to both the FB and Bb programs makes me question your understanding of current state of college athletics.