NET Rankings updated…

[Blair_45]

Pitt jumps 14 spots after the Duke win from 82 to 68 which is huge I think if this team can win the next 3-4 games. I think West Virginia upsetting Kansas at home might have helped as well seeing Pitt had a win in Morgantown this year. If you’re Pitt moving forward you have games coming up against Georgia Tech and Miami on the road that will be Quad 2 and Quad 1 wins if you can get both of them and then Wake at home which is another Quad 2 win. So big IF for sure Pitt can get these games their NET should go up in the Low 60’s possibly mid to high 50’s.

If you are there with a .500 record in conference play at mid season of conference play just about you have a chance still with a full month of games still left to get back on the bubble and NCCA Tournament conversation. Pretty much MUST win these two at GT and at Miami in the next week if you wanna continue to save your season if you are Pitt.

 

[OhioPanther99]

All possible as long as Hinson doesn't miss a three the rest of the season...

I like your optimism, but does Pitt beat a shorthanded Duke if Hinson doesn't have the best game of his life? Even if he has his pre-ACC game, Pitt losses.

 

[Nish67]

How many 4 and 5 star players does it take to beat Pitt? I guess it takes more than 7. Using the fact that Duke was missing 2 guys as an excuse is laughable. Check the ratings of those that played. Makes this win all the more sweeter!

 

[Blair_45]

Hinson won’t need to shoot and play lights out I don’t believe to win at GT or even at Miami. Obviously he has to play well still in both of those games but the bottom line is the opportunity is now there for this Pitt team after this win last night and with the upcoming schedule. Before last night they essentially had no hope of doing anything as far as tournament play was concerned. There is still a long way to go but they at least have a pulse now moving forward and like I mentioned you win these two this week on the road and get back to 4-5 in the conference and win a Quad 2 and Quad 1 games on the road and your net most likely in the 50’s at that point you’re back in it period.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

How many 4 and 5 star players does it take to beat Pitt? I guess it takes more than 7. Using the fact that Duke was missing 2 guys as an excuse is laughable. Check the ratings of those that played. Makes this win all the more sweeter!

You don't think missing 30 points/game meant anything in a 4-point game?

Weird, cause I keep hearing how much losing Burton and Nelly affected this team. And we replaced them with two 4-stars.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We're not winning the next 3 or 4 games. That was something close to our A+ game last night. If we could win like 6 more games (even that is pretty optimistic at this point), I would be happy.

 

[Blair_45]

We're not winning the next 3 or 4 games. That was something close to our A+ game last night. If we could win like 6 more games (even that is pretty optimistic at this point), I would be happy.

I think if they do win the next 4 at GT at Miami and home to Wake and Notre Dame they would be right back in the tournament conversation at 15-7 and 6-5 overall in the ACC with a NET Ranking probably in the Mid 50’s with 9 games still left to play. Not saying it will happen but the win at Duke last night at least gives Pitt an opportunity still to get back into tournament conversation if they win the next 4 games. Before last night they had zero opportunity so all I’m saying is there at least a shot here still and it’s not like Pitt is facing any world beaters these next 4 games. They will be tough games but they are all winnable as well.

 

[PittPanther44]

Different season if we could have beaten Syracuse twice

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I think if they do win the next 4 at GT at Miami and home to Wake and Notre Dame they would be right back in the tournament conversation at 15-7 and 6-5 overall in the ACC with a NET Ranking probably in the Mid 50’s with 9 games still left to play. Not saying it will happen but the win at Duke last night at least gives Pitt an opportunity still to get back into tournament conversation if they win the next 4 games. Before last night they had zero opportunity so all I’m saying is there at least a shot here still and it’s not like Pitt is facing any world beaters these next 4 games. They will be tough games but they are all winnable as well.

Yeah, but it's like claiming Pitt football still has a chance for the playoff after losing to Bowling Green week one and beating Notre Dame week two. Sure... technically they do. But you can't just cherry pick the sample size. Especially in a sport so laden with upsets.

NIT would be a good turnaround. Look at Wake Forest and Clemson the last two years getting left out of the tournament with only 10 losses. ACC isnt getting many teams in, and a game like last night probably only further solidifies that (one of the top teams losing at home to Pitt). Syracuse almost certainly isn't getting in either, and they're 13-5/4-3 with two wins over us.

 

[Nish67]

You don't think missing 30 points/game meant anything in a 4-point game?

Weird, cause I keep hearing how much losing Burton and Nelly affected this team. And we replaced them with two 4-stars.

Replacing two 5th and 6th year guys with 2 freshmen is a loss. Replacing two 4 and 5 star guys with two 4 and 5 star guys doesn't compare.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Replacing two 5th and 6th year guys with 2 freshmen is a loss. Replacing two 4 and 5 star guys with two 4 and 5 star guys doesn't compare.

Do the rankings still matter this far into a season? Obviously the two guys missing were better then their replacements if they're the 2nd and 3rd leading scorers.

It also affects depth. They got 54 minutes out of 4 guys who average 3.5 points/game or less. Do you think that happens if they're not missing two of their best players? I doubt it.

 

[Blair_45]

Yeah, but it's like claiming Pitt football still has a chance for the playoff after losing to Bowling Green week one and beating Notre Dame week two. Sure... technically they do. But you can't just cherry pick the sample size. Especially in a sport so laden with upsets.

NIT would be a good turnaround. Look at Wake Forest and Clemson the last two years getting left out of the tournament with only 10 losses. ACC isnt getting many teams in, and a game like last night probably only further solidifies that (one of the top teams losing at home to Pitt). Syracuse almost certainly isn't getting in either, and they're 13-5/4-3 with two wins over us.

You’re probably right but I wanna see at least where Pitt would be if they win the next 4 games and get to 6-5 in the ACC. They would have wins against bubble teams like Wake and Miami in that stretch as well which are Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins and like I mentioned as well their NET would most likely be probably between 55-60 at that point in 2 weeks which is important. So yes the two Syracuse losses are killers for sure you needed to at least get the one at home this past week and the loss at home to Missouri in late November was a bad loss but I still wanna see how things play out and what they look like two weeks from now if Pitt is 15-7 overall and 6-5 in the ACC.

 

[Pitt2006]

A Q1A win is important should Pitt actually claw their way back. Yes Duke was short handed, but one of the better wins a bubble team will have on a resume. With Cuse winning those two losses are Q1 and Q2. Pitt only has one 1 Q3 loss and no Q4 losses at present. Also 3-2 on the road. Beat GT and Miami and suddenly that is 5-2…

Also, they got Clemson, but no more UNC or Duke. No one that really ignited fear. Plenty of games they can lose, but if they use this as a launching pad for effort they can get there.

 

[Blair_45]

A Q1A win is important should Pitt actually claw their way back. Yes Duke was short handed, but one of the better wins a bubble team will have on a resume. With Cuse winning those two losses are Q1 and Q2. Pitt only has one 1 Q3 loss and no Q4 losses at present. Also 3-2 on the road. Beat GT and Miami and suddenly that is 5-2…

Also, they got Clemson, but no more UNC or Duke. No one that really ignited fear. Plenty of games they can lose, but if they use this as a launching pad for effort they can get there.

Yea I mean it’s gonna take a stretch most likely of winning probably 6 of the next 7 games looking at the schedule. They obviously have to win the next 4 games at GT at Miami and at home against both Wake and Notre Dame which will be difficult but not impossible and if they play anything close to how they played at Duke they can definitely do it. After that they have a 3 game stretch at NC State, at Virginia, and at home against Louisville. They will need to at least split those 2 road games at NC State and at Virginia who are both right now bubble teams and would both be Quad 1 wins if you get at least one, and then obviously they need to beat a terrible Louisville team at home. There is your 6-1 stretch in the next 7 which would get you to 17-8 overall and 8-6 in the ACC and right in the tournament conversation should that indeed happen.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

All possible as long as Hinson doesn't miss a three the rest of the season...

I like your optimism, but does Pitt beat a shorthanded Duke if Hinson doesn't have the best game of his life? Even if he has his pre-ACC game, Pitt losses.

He’s the key for sure, but it’s not the first time he’s been on fire in a game.

 

[Vader_Storm]

You don't think missing 30 points/game meant anything in a 4-point game?

Weird, cause I keep hearing how much losing Burton and Nelly affected this team. And we replaced them with two 4-stars.

I knew people were going to bring this crap up this morning.

You dont think losing Dior Johnson who is the likely frontrunner for national juco player of the year and Papa Kante in the preseason didn't hurt Pitt? There were people on here that had Kante starting in the preseason, including the biggest loudmouth on this entire website in bballinsider who also happens to be the biggest Capel hater on this board.

Injuries are part of the game, every sport in the world. It is what it is.

AND,

For pete sakes this has been the most injury plagued / suspended related program in the entire acc since Capel got here.


This one win still doesn't get Capel completely out of the doghouse with the acc start. But it also should keep some people quiet for at least a few more games.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

You don't think missing 30 points/game meant anything in a 4-point game?

Weird, cause I keep hearing how much losing Burton and Nelly affected this team. And we replaced them with two 4-stars.

It had very little effect on the offensive side because McCain and Foster picked up the slack. Where it did impact was on the defensive end where both missing players are plus defensive players.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

You don't think missing 30 points/game meant anything in a 4-point game?

Weird, cause I keep hearing how much losing Burton and Nelly affected this team. And we replaced them with two 4-stars.

Certainly Duke missing those two guys and their usual 30 points of scoring production made a difference and Pitt no doubt loses the game if the two had played. On the other hand, Duke did not actually lose a full 30 points by their absence. As others have pointed out, Duke's subs were highly rated players when Duke recruited them and they played very well last night. So, the hypothetical point loss for Duke was really only the differential between 30 points and the points those quality subs delivered.

Maybe some Pitt poster less lazy than I feel this morning can compute what was the actual (less than 30 point) hypothetical drop off for Duke?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Certainly Duke missing those two guys and their usual 30 points of scoring production made a difference and Pitt no doubt loses the game if the two had played. On the other hand, Duke did not actually lose a full 30 points by their absence. As others have pointed out, Duke's subs were highly rated players when Duke recruited them and they played very well last night. So, the hypothetical point loss for Duke was really only the differential between 30 points and the points those quality subs delivered.

Maybe some Pitt poster less lazy than I feel this morning can compute what was the actual (less than 30 point) hypothetical drop off for Duke?

Yeah, I'm not suggesting you can just add 30 points to Duke's final and that's what the total would have been. I'm just saying that those two guys obviously put Duke ahead if they play.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Pitt jumps 14 spots after the Duke win from 82 to 68 which is huge I think if this team can win the next 3-4 games. I think West Virginia upsetting Kansas at home might have helped as well seeing Pitt had a win in Morgantown this year. If you’re Pitt moving forward you have games coming up against Georgia Tech and Miami on the road that will be Quad 2 and Quad 1 wins if you can get both of them and then Wake at home which is another Quad 2 win. So big IF for sure Pitt can get these games their NET should go up in the Low 60’s possibly mid to high 50’s.

If you are there with a .500 record in conference play at mid season of conference play just about you have a chance still with a full month of games still left to get back on the bubble and NCCA Tournament conversation. Pretty much MUST win these two at GT and at Miami in the next week if you wanna continue to save your season if you are Pitt.

Moved up to #70 KenPom from , I believe, #82 or #83. Duke dropped to #13 KenPom--don't recall what they were before; but probably inside the KenPom top ten.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Yeah, I'm not suggesting you can just add 30 points to Duke's final and that's what the total would have been. I'm just saying that those two guys obviously put Duke ahead if they play.

Agree on that. Nevertheless, by wining at Duke Pitt also managed to overcame Duke's highly touted strong home court advantage.

So, whatever else factored in, that was a great Pitt win given how the ACC season has been so far for Pitt.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I knew people were going to bring this crap up this morning.

You dont think losing Dior Johnson who is the likely frontrunner for national juco player of the year and Papa Kante in the preseason didn't hurt Pitt? There were people on here that had Kante starting in the preseason, including the biggest loudmouth on this entire website in bballinsider who also happens to be the biggest Capel hater on this board.

Injuries are part of the game, every sport in the world. It is what it is.

AND,

For pete sakes this has been the most injury plagued / suspended related program in the entire acc since Capel got here.


This one win still doesn't get Capel completely out of the doghouse with the acc start. But it also should keep some people quiet for at least a few more games.

Why should it? One game doesn't negate five bad seasons out of six. Reminds me of another time we beat Duke and overreacted to it with a contract extension. Should all the other coaches who beat a top ten team in the last month (there are many) be out of the doghouse, too? Maybe we should win at Georgia Tech - which is far from a guarantee - before we start talking stupid.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Why should it? One game doesn't negate five bad seasons out of six. Reminds me of another time we beat Duke and overreacted to it with a contract extension. Should all the other coaches who beat a top ten team in the last month (there are many) be out of the doghouse, too? Maybe we should win at Georgia Tech - which is far from a guarantee - before we start talking stupid.

First 3 seasons didnt count. 4th season onward does.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

First 3 seasons didnt count. 4th season onward does.

Oh okay. Well let me know which years count and which ones don't and I'll go back and adjust my opinions accordingly. I forget who told me it counted when we were 8-2 and had just beat Duke... oh yeah, that was Capel's bank account who told me that.

It sucks that Steve Forbes' 25-10 season in year two didn't count, since Danny Manning had 5 losing seasons out of 6 before he got there. He would probably like to have that season on his resume, but rules are rules. Same with Shrewsberry at Penn State last year (can ND get a mulligan on that one?), Jim Calhoun back in the day, and hundreds - maybe thousands - of other coaches throughout history. I just called the NFL to see if they can cancel the Lions game tonight. No sense risking injury in a game that does not count.

Would last year have counted if we hadn't turned things around in December? We were dealt a preseason death knell with Jeffres, and then who could have foreseen Hugley's mental health plight?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Agree on that. Nevertheless, by wining at Duke Pitt also managed to overcame Duke's highly touted strong home court advantage.

So, whatever else factored in, that was a great Pitt win given how the ACC season has been so far for Pitt.

Yeah, it was a good win and took something close to our A+ game to achieve.

It just starts go get a little nutty for me when I see tournament talk as a result of last night. This is basketball; these upsets happen all the time.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

GT and Miami won't be easy games at all. Pitt needs to win at least 4 or 5 games in a row from this point to begin to enter the discussion for even an NIT bid. Duke was a great win, but it's one win. They need a ton more of those this year against some very good teams. It's all about the matchups.

 

[gary2]

We're not winning the next 3 or 4 games. That was something close to our A+ game last night. If we could win like 6 more games (even that is pretty optimistic at this point), I would be happy.

We (Hinson) shot insane in order to win.

Overall, I did not think we played "all" that much better.

Some, sure. Significant, I did not see that.

The ball isn't Moving. One on one and standing watching.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Oh okay. Well let me know which years count and which ones don't and I'll go back and adjust my opinions accordingly. I forget who told me it counted when we were 8-2 and had just beat Duke... oh yeah, that was Capel's bank account who told me that.

It sucks that Steve Forbes' 25-10 season in year two didn't count, since Danny Manning had 5 losing seasons out of 6 before he got there. He would probably like to have that season on his resume, but rules are rules. Same with Shrewsberry at Penn State last year (can ND get a mulligan on that one?), Jim Calhoun back in the day, and hundreds - maybe thousands - of other coaches throughout history. I just called the NFL to see if they can cancel the Lions game tonight. No sense risking injury in a game that does not count.

Would last year have counted if we hadn't turned things around in December? We were dealt a preseason death knell with Jeffres, and then who could have foreseen Hugley's mental health plight?

Ok, Ill inform you. Any program coming off a winless conference record that loses games between 20-50 points nightly gets the first 3 years that dont count for a new coach.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt jumps 14 spots after the Duke win from 82 to 68 which is huge I think if this team can win the next 3-4 games. I think West Virginia upsetting Kansas at home might have helped as well seeing Pitt had a win in Morgantown this year. If you’re Pitt moving forward you have games coming up against Georgia Tech and Miami on the road that will be Quad 2 and Quad 1 wins if you can get both of them and then Wake at home which is another Quad 2 win. So big IF for sure Pitt can get these games their NET should go up in the Low 60’s possibly mid to high 50’s.

If you are there with a .500 record in conference play at mid season of conference play just about you have a chance still with a full month of games still left to get back on the bubble and NCCA Tournament conversation. Pretty much MUST win these two at GT and at Miami in the next week if you wanna continue to save your season if you are Pitt.

Not sure our NET matters at this point. We need to go a minimum of 11-2 the rest of the way to make it. If we go 10-3, we'd probably need to reach the semifinal or final of the ACCT. Going 11-2 the rest of the way gives us the NET we need. But the chances going 11-2 have to be less than 1%. Basically, we can afford to lose @ Clemson and @ Wake and win every single other game which is winnable.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We (Hinson) shot insane to in order to win.

Overall, I did not think we played "all" that much better.

I thought we did. We took Fillipowski away early, Fede was not a gaping net negative, Lowe played amazingly well, etc.

I get what you're saying in general, though: Too much of our success hinges on Hinson making silly shots.

 

[Blair_45]

GT and Miami won't be easy games at all. Pitt needs to win at least 4 or 5 games in a row from this point to begin to enter the discussion for even an NIT bid. Duke was a great win, but it's one win. They need a ton more of those this year against some very good teams. It's all about the matchups.

Oh yea for sure nobody said they would be easy wins and I’m with you as well winning the next 4 games and getting to 6-5 in the ACC with two Quad 2 wins and one Quad 1 win in that stretch will definitely get them back in NIT discussion for sure and they will also start to become a fringe bubble team as well for the NCCA Tournament.

 

[Blair_45]

Not sure our NET matters at this point. We need to go a minimum of 11-2 the rest of the way to make it. If we go 10-3, we'd probably need to reach the semifinal or final of the ACCT. Going 11-2 the rest of the way gives us the NET we need. But the chances going 11-2 have to be less than 1%. Basically, we can afford to lose @ Clemson and @ Wake and win every single other game which is winnable.

I think going 10-3 or even 9-4 the rest of the way would get them to 21-10 or 20-11 overall and 12-8 or 11-9 in the ACC and with some solid Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins mixed in that stretch it should be good enough to get them a NET between 50-60 you would think and on the bubble come ACC Tournament time. And considering where this team was and currently is everybody on this board would sign in blood for that right now.

 

[PittMan2003]

All possible as long as Hinson doesn't miss a three the rest of the season...

I like your optimism, but does Pitt beat a shorthanded Duke if Hinson doesn't have the best game of his life? Even if he has his pre-ACC game, Pitt losses.

Have u just started following college basketball? To get a huge road upset you need to shoot well from three. Pitt was 50%which was huge

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Have u just started following college basketball? To get a huge road upset you need to shoot well from three. Pitt was 50%which was huge

And Pitt had to overcome the disparity in number of FT's. We had 16 FT's, Duke had 28. Those are "free" points given to Duke.

 

[PittMan2003]

And Pitt had to overcome the disparity in number of FT's. We had 16 FT's, Duke had 28. Those are "free" points given to Duke.

Yeah, I don’t usually harp on officiating, but that was a pretty bad game. We had to overcome a lot to win that game with questionable officiating. Our best players played with four fouls for a long time.

 

[Pittnerski]

That 16 FTs was more like 8… we shot half under :30 last night when Duke was forcing fouls

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Do the rankings still matter this far into a season? Obviously the two guys missing were better then their replacements if they're the 2nd and 3rd leading scorers.

It also affects depth. They got 54 minutes out of 4 guys who average 3.5 points/game or less. Do you think that happens if they're not missing two of their best players? I doubt it.

Well, that's on their coach. They could have played, but he decided to sit them. I'm sure he didn't think he would need them.

Pitt played with a lack of depth too, because of a lack of talent. We got 44 minutes out of our bench and they got 41.

I thought the officials did a great job of trying to help Duke minimize the impact of their coach's stupid decision of looking past an opponent.

 

[gary2]

Well, that's on their coach. They could have played, but he decided to sit them. I'm sure he didn't think he would need them.

Pitt played with a lack of depth too, because of a lack of talent. We got 44 minutes out of our bench and they got 41.

I thought the officials did a great job of trying to help Duke minimize the impact of their coach's stupid decision of looking past an opponent.

Yep

 

[TD_6082]

Well, that's on their coach. They could have played, but he decided to sit them. I'm sure he didn't think he would need them.

Pitt played with a lack of depth too, because of a lack of talent. We got 44 minutes out of our bench and they got 41.

I thought the officials did a great job of trying to help Duke minimize the impact of their coach's stupid decision of looking past an opponent.

And he shouldn't have needed them.

If I'm a Duke fan, the thing I'd be most concerned about is the defensive effort. Their defense has been atrocious the last 2 games (both at home against bad opponents). Pitt & GaTech both shot over 50% on their floor

Yeah, Hinson had a game where he went off last night, but Pitt outscored Duke 32-18 in the paint. That's laughable.

Hopefully Pitt can get some momentum from this win, because it's definitely a huge win for this team. But they need to stay focused, hungry, and do a better job of fighting through adversity than they have lately, because they will be better defended better than they were last night damn near every time they step on the court.

 

[Vader_Storm]

And he shouldn't have needed them.

If I'm a Duke fan, the thing I'd be most concerned about is the defensive effort. Their defense has been atrocious the last 2 games (both at home against bad opponents). Pitt & GaTech both shot over 50% on their floor

Yeah, Hinson had a game where he went off last night, but Pitt outscored Duke 32-18 in the paint. That's laughable.

Hopefully Pitt can get some momentum from this win, because it's definitely a huge win for this team. But they need to stay focused, hungry, and do a better job of fighting through adversity than they have lately, because they will be better defended better than they were last night damn near every time they step on the court.

The whole Pitt offense last night was created by consistent dribble penetration attacking the interior by the 2 Pitt freshmen guards and Leggett. Duke couldn't stop it. We have not done this all season long. For most of the season, all this team wanted to do was jack up long range mid range shots and 3s and pass the ball around the perimeter.


On the season, 45% of our total shot attempts have been from 3, which is absurd. Last night, 30% of our total shots were from 3.


Before the Louisville game I said things could turn around based off Jaland Lowe making a move and being aggressive attacking the interior with dribble penetration. The post is still unedited. Finally, half way into the season, not only is Lowe starting, but finally we saw our offense attack relentlessly off the bounce into the interior, and Duke got boatraced in the paint because of it.