why would unc, duke, and uva not want wvu in the ACC? im asking in all sincerity?
next round of expansion..... your thoughts.
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Academics,academics,academics,image,image,image is what they said and then they welcomed Louisville with opened arms!
The best comparison in my view for WVU is Texas Tech.
Solid football, solid hoops lately, college world series,
But located in the wasteland of Lubbock and West Texas....and will NEVER surpass the other schools in the region in terms of popularity.
In fact, when these two schools play there ought to be a trophy every bit as ridiculous as the River City Boatwheel.
A big brass cropduster on a block of black oak.
Call it "The Flyover Trophy".
Solid football, solid hoops lately, college world series,
But located in the wasteland of Lubbock and West Texas....and will NEVER surpass the other schools in the region in terms of popularity.
In fact, when these two schools play there ought to be a trophy every bit as ridiculous as the River City Boatwheel.
A big brass cropduster on a block of black oak.
Call it "The Flyover Trophy".
We can discuss and diss WVU all we want but I’d trade their FB success over the last twenty years with Pitt any day. Boy, what a difference that would have made.
All Rutgers did was allow the BTN to gather a mess of TV’s in the NY metro area.
None of which are tuned into Rutgers' games, which is why Comcast is going to drop the Big Ten Network if the Big Ten doesn't slash the price dramatically.
Oddly enough, I feel that someone here pointed out that that was the inevitable conclusion to this when Rutgers joined the conference, but some here felt (and probably still do) that the only thing that mattered was the number of television sets in the market, not the number of people who were actually watching on those televisions.
From a value-added perspective, they'd have gotten more with Syracuse.
I don’t know. I do know that Paterno and Boeheim has no love lost for each other.
Long term they are going to be a drag on the B1G. I thought they (and MD to a lesser extent) were a result of Delaney panicking to expand after not getting their A and B plan schools.
I don't know, they both have value even if they suck forever, just because of their locations.
Part of it was "panic" because the B10 saw the ACC Eastern seaboard strategy unfolding (which started and was unveiled in 2003 when they went after SU, BC, and Miami) and they didn't want to surrender the large eastern markets to a Pac-10 East, so to speak. The ACC moves would have isolated PSU who was throwing a tantrum coming off their scandal. And PSU was vulnerable to being plucked if they were surrounded by a conference of their former eastern independent rivals + Notre Dame after years of trying to get the Big Ten to give them an eastern partner not named Pitt. The Big Ten was always eyeing east, but the ACC's expansion and PSU's cajoling pushed the B10 to expand east when they did, and it was a reactionary move. And what the B10 got was only what was available at the time: a reeling, disgruntled Maryland that took a huge upfront payout to pay off their massive athletic debt and avoid cutting 8 varsity sports, and a school going down with the titanic that was so desirable that its invite was conditional on Maryland accepting. Absolutely, the Big 10 would have stayed at 12 if UMD had stayed put. Heck, Louisville might be in the Big 12 with WVU and Rutgers in that hypothetical scenario.
IMO, I think if Maryland had stayed, Rutgers could have eventually been in the ACC, perhaps as a partner to ND or PSU if both didn't join to get to 16, but there would have been no rush to add them.
But athletically, Louisville has been an upgrade to UMD despite its plethora of ultra-embarrassing issues.
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MD will be ahead as to distributions after 2021 if the payout amount is 50 million over ACC payout. But the Big Ten network is not a big contributor as many think. In fact I see it declining as out of area networks leave. Look Rutgers and MD took the deal and are in a P^5 conference. But MD and Rutgers play OSU, Michigan MSU and PSU which are simply a cannon fodder for those programs.
2018 Projections
Big 10 - $51 million*
SEC - $45 million
Big 12 - $37.5 million
Pac 12 - $32.5 million
ACC - $25-31 million (2017 - boost to over $40 million coming in 2019)
Sources:
Mercury-News: On the Big Ten’s soaring payouts, Murphy-Stephans’ comments and the end (?) of the Pac-12 Networks business model
Syracuse.com: Syracuse gets record payout from ACC, which still lags behind other P-5 conferences
______
* Not everyone gets a full share.
NJ.com: It's official: Rutgers got a lousy deal from the Big Ten | Politi
More on the Big Ten transition payments. It's complicated:
Big Red Today (January 2016 report): Nebraska on track for big payday in 2017; Maryland’s larger Big Ten payout is part advance
Big 10 - $51 million*
SEC - $45 million
Big 12 - $37.5 million
Pac 12 - $32.5 million
ACC - $25-31 million (2017 - boost to over $40 million coming in 2019)
Sources:
Mercury-News: On the Big Ten’s soaring payouts, Murphy-Stephans’ comments and the end (?) of the Pac-12 Networks business model
Syracuse.com: Syracuse gets record payout from ACC, which still lags behind other P-5 conferences
______
* Not everyone gets a full share.
NJ.com: It's official: Rutgers got a lousy deal from the Big Ten | Politi
The Scarlet Knights are projected to get just $11.6 million (for '17-18). As the athletic department races to build the facilities needed to compete in the conference, it will receive just one-fifth of the revenue that its well-heeled rivals are banking.
That will change in the coming years, of course. Rutgers will get $14.9 million in 2018-19 and $19.3 million in 2019-20, and then -- finally -- it will get a full share of that revenue pie in 2020-21.
All will be forgotten then. But if that projected $51.1 million payout stays the same the next three years, the 11 established conference members (not counting other relative newcomers Maryland and Nebraska) will have pocketed $177 million more over the six-year transitional period than Rutgers.
All will be forgotten then. But if that projected $51.1 million payout stays the same the next three years, the 11 established conference members (not counting other relative newcomers Maryland and Nebraska) will have pocketed $177 million more over the six-year transitional period than Rutgers.
More on the Big Ten transition payments. It's complicated:
Big Red Today (January 2016 report): Nebraska on track for big payday in 2017; Maryland’s larger Big Ten payout is part advance
Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers were all given six-year terms to transition to a full Big Ten share. Payments from the league were then set at what the schools were projected to receive from their old leagues during those years at the time of negotiations — 2010 for Nebraska and 2013 for Maryland and Rutgers.
Nebraska’s $14 million payment during 2011-12, its first in the Big Ten, was based on what it had been expected to receive from the Big 12 in that year.
Likewise, Maryland’s $24.5 million base payment for 2014-15 was based on what it was projected to receive from the ACC that year.
Rutgers was coming out of the lower-tier American Athletic Conference, the reason for its low-ball Big Ten payment. The school did not release its first-year payment figure last week, but Traviolia put it at about $10 million.
Nebraska’s $14 million payment during 2011-12, its first in the Big Ten, was based on what it had been expected to receive from the Big 12 in that year.
Likewise, Maryland’s $24.5 million base payment for 2014-15 was based on what it was projected to receive from the ACC that year.
Rutgers was coming out of the lower-tier American Athletic Conference, the reason for its low-ball Big Ten payment. The school did not release its first-year payment figure last week, but Traviolia put it at about $10 million.
The ACC should swing for the fences and do whatever possible to land Texas. If you have ND and Texas tied into the ACC, then everybody will benefit.
Hypothetically - if the ACC were to add WV, then they still need to add someone else for football. Do you try and add MD, Kentucky, Navy, UConn, or Cincy? Then you have to ask whether or not it make sense to add any of those teams and would they come?
IMO - u swing for the fences with Texas, and if that does not work out, then you stand pat unless another major shift occurs.
Hypothetically - if the ACC were to add WV, then they still need to add someone else for football. Do you try and add MD, Kentucky, Navy, UConn, or Cincy? Then you have to ask whether or not it make sense to add any of those teams and would they come?
IMO - u swing for the fences with Texas, and if that does not work out, then you stand pat unless another major shift occurs.
Morganhole brings no new eyeballs and academics suck, they wont be joining the ACC.
All we know right now is that the Big 12 will fave a true test when the GOR expire. The wrangling over that should start any time now. Texas honestly couldn’t care less and has likely been the impediment to the conference expanding. That’s the swing point. If all of the parties hold it together and renew, there’s no reason for “expansion”.
Of course how much money will be lost (Fox is not happy with the current deal) will be the main issue.
If it’s goinf badly. I’m sure you’ll know.
Of course how much money will be lost (Fox is not happy with the current deal) will be the main issue.
If it’s goinf badly. I’m sure you’ll know.
Maryland would have been in a "P5" conference regardless. Rutgers, on the other hand, was the beneficiary of a miracle.
So now we have to have people actually watching games to get that TV money!
BUT they have way more eyeballs watching the Mountaineers than Pitt has eyeballs watching them play.Your fan base isn't big and it's shrinking but you Pitters wont admit it.Times are a changing and it's going to be who is actually watching the games not how many TVs the area has.
Perhaps when you're playing at Texas. You're making the argument that the Akron folks could be making when they play at Penn State--that all those eyeballs are watching the Zips.
The Big 12 is together as long as Texas says it is. I'm think that Texas might re-up for one more go...they might be able to make a little more money by shopping themselves around...but they don't want the SEC nor the Big 10. They were close to joining the PAC 12 a few years back but go the wedding day jitters and pulled out.
Who's watching Pitt play?Hey I'm not criticising Pitt it's like you guys think the whole Tristate area is watching Pitt play at noon against Duke.I'm just saying on any given Saturday Wvu has more watching them than Pitt does.Not big deal except when the money people say let's do a survey and just see how many people are tuned in to these schools games.
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Wrong.
Morgantown is a hole, you saw how the coaches in the 80s Big East wanted nothing to do with it. No Airport, No where to eat except Sheetz, etc.
It brings no new market.
ACC is not going to expand unless ND is in full at #15. Any other combo is a no go IMO.
I really like this article by Saturday Down South. Does a good job at going in-depth on what the future of college football holds.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/s...d-college-football-realignment-look-like-nfl/
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/s...d-college-football-realignment-look-like-nfl/
LOL. Nielsen ratings are eyeballs.
Pitt is just fine with either model: market size or individual eyeballs, at least compared to a school like WVU.
Not at all. They didn't want WVU and didn't want louisville either. But after MD left clemson and FL st made it known they wanted a football school and the ACC blue bloods(duke, NC, VA) couldn't afford to piss off those schools and have them leave. I don't think the new ACC schools (BC, Pitt, VT) care strongly either way, with Miami siding strongly with FL st and clemson. If expansion was to happen again I don't know which block would have a stronger backing. I don't see anyone moving unless they can land OU or TX. Those are the only schools in the B12 that are real needle movers. Most of the others will find homes after the big dogs leave, if they do leave. I think it really comes down to OU as they are the ones most likely to make a move. Maybe if VA, NC or VT can get out of the ACC contract the B10 could make a play but I don't know if those schools will make a move without a tag along school and the B10 likely won't take two from the same state.
Maybe but if OU decides to leave what does TX do? Do they stay in a watered down big 12 or do they decide to move on. They might decide to keep making the money and not worry about it. Thats the nice thing for TX they can make a decision when it suits them as everyone will still want them.
I don't know about that where are you getting your numbers? I know when the b10 was looking to expand Pitt had better TV ratings than any other candidate except for NB and WVU was on that list. In fact Pitt was closer to NB than anyone else was to Pitt. So unless things have changed drastically then Pitt and WVU would at best be even.
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I know you see those empty seats at Heinz and want to believe that nobody cares, however Pitt does surprisingly well in TV ratings both locally and nationally. Weird...but true.
maybe it is all those Nitters and 'eers fans tuning in hoping to see a loss.
Paco your are the expert on these sorts of things I'm just a sports fan.But I'll ask you do you think more fans watch Pitt play football than Wvu has fans watching them.I don't care if the Tristate area has 20 million TV set how many people are watching Pitt play football.Heck you get 35,000 to a home game so how many are really watching on TV.
There’s no truth to that rumor. Was all message board garbage. Texas will not go west. It hurts the value of their TV revenue.
Texas would do a ND deal before going to the PAC 12.
Ok I give up everyone in Allegheny,Butler,Beaver,Armstrong and Westmoreland Counties are watching Pitt play football on TV.You guys have more fans than Psu or Osu. Wvu is right there with my Alma Mater Cal State of Pa when it comes to viewing,sorry to bother you guys with my lame observations .I never realized the vast fanbase you guys really have untill now, H2P.
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