If you are milling around the Great Hall to keep your interest at the game, you either aren't adding any extra energy to the team or they aren't doing much with it.
No new stadium?: Then make Heinz smaller
- Thread starter TIGER-PAUL
- Start date
The topic was making Heinz Field Smaller. I proposed what they should do and why. Pitt needs to make football games more inviting to the casual fan. The Great Hall side has a lot more to see and do. Tailgating with friends is part of the pre-game experience. Just telling people to move or walk is not inviting. Camera angles showing a stadium that is more filled is big in perception and recruiting players that turn on the TV and see Pitt. Just think about the beautiful shots of Pittsburgh you see during a televised event. It helps to sell the city. The people who are diehards will attend no matter what, but there are not nearly enough of them.
I understand that the original topic. I'm just confused on how switching sides and the amenities of the great hall would make Heinz field smaller. Your "pros" in the the previous post have more to do about making the game more enjoyable. If you want the stadium to look full, tarp some of the upper deck. Then every camera shot will show a full stadium.
Yeah, a definite downfall. Like I said I don't think this is an actual strategy they should go with. But even to tarp the upper deck you would be doing something similar. I just think they need to worry about selling the lower level and filling it up before they sell tickets in the upper deck.
I'm not saying what I said is the strategy to use, obviously it would not work flawlessly. Maybe don't sell upper deck seats until the lower level is sold out, idk just something. All I'm saying is whether they tarp it or not, they need a way to get the crowd closer together and not have empty patches down low and then a few hundred people randomly scattered across the upper levels.
It WOULD be cool....but as a novelty. I'd be all for doing it once a year or once every couple. But the site lines would not be great for football.
Not even sure it has a configuration that would actually work
Pitt's fan base is probably twice the size you project...what you fail to realize is half of them are still distrustful and too pissed at Pitt to go to the games regularly. Pitt's responsible for the size of the fanbase that attends games regularly.
I like your idea re: selling advertising on the tarps. The athletic department needs money; we can compress the seating and sell the space for profit. A win-win indeed.
I'm not being argumentative, but just stating that Pitt "fans" have always had excuses why they don't attend games: "I can't attend night games"; "I can't attend noon games"; "it's supposed to rain"; "it's too cold"; "not a good schedule"; "they don't sell beer"; "parking sucks"; "tailgating sucks"; "I always get stuck in traffic", "I hate Heinz Field", and so on, and so on.
If Pitt fans are too distrustful and pissed to attend games, we should keep in mind that the main reasons often given for distrust (the former chancellor, the former ADs, the former coaches) are long gone.
True fans attend games (when possible) and contribute. Those who don't do either really aren't fans, in spite of what they may say. It's time to stop making excuses for them.
Long gone? Well just think about the BB program...it's always something.
True - it is "always something". But every program in the nation (especially focusing on those whom we want to emulate) has its share of fans who complain about something, yet it doesn't stop their fans from attending games and supporting the team.
We all know that even when Pitt was among the elite in college football (during the Majors-Sherill years), the stadium didn't sellout for those games either. And those were the years when the City of Pittsburgh had more residents than it does today, and dare I mention that Pitt even had an on-campus stadium, too.
No fan base has suffered from the stupidity and incompetence of ts administration like the the Pitt fan base has...none! The Sherrill and Majors era, was preceded and followed by the same stupidity and incompetence..you want the reasons for the lack of loyalty and support, there it is...don't blame the fans!
No argument from me on your points. Stupidity, incompetence, and blatant self-destructiveness. But how's it going to end? The Administration can now say that they don't have the financial backing of the fans to make the needed improvements, and they'd be right. Pitt athletics, when compared to the other schools in the ACC, are grossly under-supported by its fanbase. The statistics bear it out.
How long should Pitt fans carry their grudge against the Administration? Ten more years? Twenty-five more years? One hundred years? A lot of the more recent Pitt graduates weren't even born yet when Johnny and Jackie were coaching here - so they don't know the story of the Killer B's - yet they're not supporting Pitt athletics either.
Pitt fans want champagne-caliber sports teams, but they want them on a beer budget. And barring a fluke occurrence, it's not going to happen. Should Pitt football do great during the next few years, HCPN and his staff are going to want better (read: bigger, more lucrative) contracts, and deservingly so. Will Pitt pony-up and pay to keep them? Or will they use the rationale of poor fan support to say that they simply can't afford to?
One gets the impression that too many fans are hoping that a whale, such as a T. Boone Pickens or a Phil Knight, will drop a boatload of money onto Pitt athletics and perpetually fund it, but it ain't gonna happen. And to the chagrin of Pitt fans, the current company chairman of Nike, Mark Parker, is....well....a Nit. So expect the rich to get even richer.
Forget Johnny and Jackie and even Nordy and Haywood. The current administration has earned its own lack of confidence with how it destroyed basketball.
Considering the awful awful awful administrations, Pitt fans give far better support than what has been deserved. Far far better.
Being asked to blindly donate loads of money ... and these idiots turn around and sabotage Pitt's best basketball coach ever, run him outta town with not even a dime of buyout money required, then hire an absolute loser who can't attract dead flies to the roster ... who in their right mind is going to go for that? Gallagher is as worthless as the rest, if not more so.
The most "Pitt" fans that I have ever seen at a game would be about 50k or so. That is tops, and the number includes students. That is over 30 years of attending Pitt games. These potential fans you bring up do not exist.
Pitt should drop admission requirements to match WVU's. Then admit three times as many students. In a couple of decades there will be standing room only at whichever venue the football team calls home.
That seems as good of an idea as building an on campus stadium.
That seems as good of an idea as building an on campus stadium.
It's up to the athletic dept to get pitt fans/alumni to pony up. Yes our donations suck? Why? Think about this for a sec. is it because everyone from western pa is cheaper than every other college fan base in country? Is it because our fan base is smaller than every other college ga base in country? Of course not
You're a joke. Over the last 30 years there have been lots of games at Heinz, # Rivers and Pitt stadium with over 50, 000 fans. Fitz' soph. year Pitt averaged over 50k. You have no idea what you're talking about! Take your head of your behind. You're clueless.
Learn how to read. "PITT FANS". Please do not tell me you believe there are 60k Pitt fans in the stands when WV, ND, or PS sellout Heinz. Those games have 65k people because the visitors bring a lot of people. I was at every single game in 2003. You and anyone else that believes there were 60k "PITT FANS" at those games are nuts. You are crazy if you think Pitt has a huge contingent of Pitt fans just sitting at home waiting to be convinced to attend. Do you even attend the games and watch the stands empty out after Sweet Caroline? Pitt has a small, apathetic fan base.
I'm an old guy who grew up in the mon valley and went to Pitt stadium regularly. Loved that stadium and the on campus ambience. It should never have been torn down. There was history, tradition, and glory attached to that place. You can't recapture that type of magic.
But you have to first realize how big your fanbase really is. It is not "Pitt fans" fault for not filling Heinz. You can have the same success from 76-82 and maybe you would average 52-55K a game. There just aren't 70K Pitt fans out there clamoring for tickets to football games. There are very few city schools that can say that. Very few.
Right size stadium capacity is just a simple matter of numbers.
Heinz Field for Pitt football games should be tarped down to 50,000 (excluding Notre Dame,Penn State and WVU games).
Pitt has a total student body of about 35,000 and Penn State has a total student body of about 90,000. Because of these numbers Penn State has significantly more alums than Pitt and they can support a stadium size of 100,000 compared to Pitt's 50,000.
Only 1 in 4 people in the Pittsburgh metro area have a college education and therefore most Pittsburgh fans identify more with the local pro teams rather than a college team.
The new Pitt AD needs to address and accept these facts.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Heinz Field for Pitt football games should be tarped down to 50,000 (excluding Notre Dame,Penn State and WVU games).
Pitt has a total student body of about 35,000 and Penn State has a total student body of about 90,000. Because of these numbers Penn State has significantly more alums than Pitt and they can support a stadium size of 100,000 compared to Pitt's 50,000.
Only 1 in 4 people in the Pittsburgh metro area have a college education and therefore most Pittsburgh fans identify more with the local pro teams rather than a college team.
The new Pitt AD needs to address and accept these facts.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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The capacity of Old Pitt Stadium was just 56,500 and we did not sell out capacity for many home football games.
Heinz Field needs to be tarped down to 50,000 or 56,500 (Old Pitt Stadium Capacity).
Heather you really need to start looking into this.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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I'm in total agreement with you. I don't give a darn how run down Pitt stadium was...an administration with any foresight would have found a way to keep it and modernize it...the Pete could have been built elsewhere.
I don't think it has anything to do with "college grads" per se. Look at the crowds at WVU, Alabama, Ohio State, PSU, Tennessee, Florida, you think they are filled with college grads? Come on..... It is what the region is identified with. Pittsburgh is identified with the Steelers (and now Pens) because of their sustained success.
Heinz Field needs to be reduced to 50,000 capacity for Pitt football games.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
If you eliminate the upper deck seating in the end zone and one sideline, there would be home fans EVERYWHERE ELSE. How many road fans attend games? 2-4000?
Comparing Pitt to a diploma mill like PedSt is kind of silly.
Football Bowl Subdivision crowds averaged 43,106 fans per game in 2016,downby less than 1 percent from 2015, according to a CBS Sports analysis of NCAA attendance data.
Pitt averaged 48k- this really isn't an attendance issue as much as a Heinz is too big issue. Heinz is too big for all but maybe 20-25 schools. Tarp the end zone and tops of each side- who cares.
Football Bowl Subdivision crowds averaged 43,106 fans per game in 2016,downby less than 1 percent from 2015, according to a CBS Sports analysis of NCAA attendance data.
Pitt averaged 48k- this really isn't an attendance issue as much as a Heinz is too big issue. Heinz is too big for all but maybe 20-25 schools. Tarp the end zone and tops of each side- who cares.
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Pitt stadium was a dump and any attempts of "modernization" you still would have had a slightly better dump but it still would be a dump. The only options were to raze it and start over or move. They didn't have money to raze it and rebuild.
Exactly. When you look at Pitt alongside its peers rather than large state universities, Pitt is very comparable in terms of attendance. It is absolutely a capacity issue and that is an easy fix if they really wanted to fix it.
I've been on record as saying the attendance "problem" is manufactured by the local media as a(nother) reason to jerk off Penn State. They outspend Pitt like 100 to 1 yet really don't win much more than us, so the media has to invent something they're clearly ahead on. Attendance neatly fits that bill. But it's bs of course. Crowds of 45000 or so that we get more often than not are fine.
But i will say that the "tarp" item is one that comes up in ubiquitous fashion on message boards like this ... yet it is one i don't believe has been asked of the media to any of our AD Of The Week. I'm a little surprised because there's definitely an insulting element to the question, so I'm pretty surprised a cultist ahole like Ron Cook hasn't done so. Of course I boycott his station and column so perhaps he has. But I haven't seen it asked by anyone else, or perhaps ive just missed it?
I don't think it is worth a dam as an idea either way ... do it or not, who really cares ... but since it gets brought up SO often on message boards ... well? Has Pitt admitted studying this possibility, to anyone's knowledge?
But i will say that the "tarp" item is one that comes up in ubiquitous fashion on message boards like this ... yet it is one i don't believe has been asked of the media to any of our AD Of The Week. I'm a little surprised because there's definitely an insulting element to the question, so I'm pretty surprised a cultist ahole like Ron Cook hasn't done so. Of course I boycott his station and column so perhaps he has. But I haven't seen it asked by anyone else, or perhaps ive just missed it?
I don't think it is worth a dam as an idea either way ... do it or not, who really cares ... but since it gets brought up SO often on message boards ... well? Has Pitt admitted studying this possibility, to anyone's knowledge?
WVU is the only major team in the entire state, and their stadium seats 8,000 less people than us.
Agree
Chris do you know if this idea of tarping (I call it right sizing) Heinz Field for Pitt football gameshas been brought up with the current administration or AD. The media may mock but so what.
It will create a more exciting environment with a compaction of Pitt fans supporting the team.
Tarping has been done in Pittsburgh before when the Pirates played in Three Rivers Stadium the stadium capacity was way to large for baseball and attempted to "Right Size" Three Rivers Stadium with tarps.
Even Penn State used this concept for some of their basketball games in the Bryce Jorden Center (capacity about 18,000) when they would have a televised basketball game and only had 4000 fans in attendance. Penn State would close large blue curtains "hiding" thousands of empty seats because it would not look good for TV. If any other Pitt posters have attended a Penn State basketball game with low attendance you would know what I'm talking about.
Heather you need to seriously consider this concept.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Agree
Again I personally don't think it adds or detracts whether tarps or not. Crowds are what they are and most of the time they're decent for our situation.
If there really truly is some terrible calamity due to lesser crowds, then the Pitt administration should have planned to commit what it takes to be a serious winner. Alternately should have planed from the very first ... 2001 ... that the upper decks would be tarped for most games, had that officially integrated into seating and ticketing packages from day 1, year 1. From very first, state that regular official capacity for Pitt would be 48000 (or whatever). No pretense. No "65000" on our merchandise (this was actually printed on a "Hail to Pitt" Nike cap I was given as a gift around that time).
If there really truly is some terrible calamity due to lesser crowds, then the Pitt administration should have planned to commit what it takes to be a serious winner. Alternately should have planed from the very first ... 2001 ... that the upper decks would be tarped for most games, had that officially integrated into seating and ticketing packages from day 1, year 1. From very first, state that regular official capacity for Pitt would be 48000 (or whatever). No pretense. No "65000" on our merchandise (this was actually printed on a "Hail to Pitt" Nike cap I was given as a gift around that time).
Agree, should have been done at beginning. PSU and WVU were already ripping on Pitt for Pitt stadium looking half empty before the move.
Indeed, and now there has been 15 years of the same at Heinz... so does it really matter any more, if it ever did
Here's the deal. You put 45K in this stadium it looks like this.
If you put 45K in this stadium it looks like this:
If you put 45K in Heinz Field it looks like this:
If you put 45K in this stadium it looks like this:
If you put 45K in Heinz Field it looks like this:
If that discrepancy really is providing real pain other than giving Pittsburgh media fodder for mockery (keep in mind they'd immediately mock the tarps as well) then i wonder why they don't do it. Which goes back to whether the AD has ever actually addressed the issue publicly. Which of course then raises the age old question about how shoddy Pitt athletics are run.Here's the deal. You put 45K in this stadium it looks like this.
If you put 45K in this stadium it looks like this:
If you put 45K in Heinz Field it looks like this:
Well the first thing we need to do is stop always worrying about the Pittsburgh media. We become Donald Trump too much in doing this. Just like yesterday, that PG article was really a good one, and interesting. It was not an anti Pitt one, as much pointing out college football may have reached a tipping point and viewing habits also are changing. Same with the NFL. We are so hypersensitive (with reason) but we can't worry what they are saying, except our leaders need to be more forthright and proactive, playing down the PSU's and OSU's in realizing it is more fair to compare Pitt with schools in other NFL towns and while Heinz is nice and the amenities much superior to most college stadiums, it is not correctly sized for Pitt games.
I agree that fans and admin should not give a flying flunk what Pittsburgh media says. It's laden with proPSU sycophants.
The concern is that my observation and oftmentioned claim of winning solving all is wrong. That Pitt made some super secret study that verified Pitt will never regularly draw better than 40000 for a common game such as a mid season Duke game, even if we won multiple championships within a decade or 11 plus every year with only rare exception.
That seems to be what some claim (and if true I'd suggest Pitt should flat out give up on P5 sports rather than fool with tarps...the case would seem hopeless). I mean, if true that Pitt and Pitt alone has a such a limited and firm ceiling of fan support that even regular high levels of success wouldn't be able to crack... why bother?
Despite the region proving otherwise. Backing a freak niche support like hockey for example because it wins. Including for PITT, as was shown in the early heady days when Pitt hoops was on a rapid climb under Howland Dixon , when our hoops was the hottest ticket and Mayor Steelerstahl, more contemptuous of Pitt than even Nit douche Peduto, was holding unprecedented downtown pep rallies.
I happen to think that's closer to bunk, that we'd fill that place, just as all serious winners do most every place (especially in the winner - starved Burgh), no matter the capacity, no matter the troughs we have to whiz in, no matter if beer is sold... if we'd invest to win at that level (which would then perpetually pay for itself to repeat).
