OT: 2021 Buccos

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

100% truth right here. That 98 win season, and he added absolutely nothing. That is when it was loud and clear Nutting was never going to spend to bring championship baseball to this town. Like Recruits said, the payroll was low, adding the 2 or 3 pieces would have still had a total payroll then half the league.

Here's the thing.....we remember the rumors and such. But I know for a fact that these two deals were on the table for other teams.

Giancarlo Stanton to the Pirates for Jaimeson Taillon, Gregory Polanco and Tyler Glasnow.

OR.....Chris Sale for basically the same package, I think Polanco, Glasnow and Alan Hansen.

The Pirates turned down because it didn't want to mortgage the future. Well...they did, for an over the hill Chris Archer. And Polanco and Taillon have been either injured or iffy (or both) in their time here.

The point, either would have pushed the Pirates over the Cards, and avoided the one and done Wild card game and who knows.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Yep.

See..........I can understand economics. And to be honest, if the Pirates payroll this year is $30 million or less, so be it. It doesn't need to be more right now since there is no floor. But it was 2013-15 where we were lied to, when the Pirates had a contender, won 98 games, and the owner still wouldn't move the Pirates at least out of the bottom third of payrolls. You bank now, and spend when it is time. They bank now and well, bank later.

This post is exactly why you get the same old responses you lamented earlier. The problem isn't the coach, or the GM, or the scouts. The problem is a cheap ass, greedy, scrooge of an owner. I can't fathom how you can bank as much coin as he has, watch the value of the franchise grow 10x, and still only care about squeezing the next nickel out... winning be damned.

Teams with owners like this don't win championships and they don't even contend for them. The Pirates are Nutting's piggy bank, and he never plans on dipping into it for anything.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

At age 67, I am not going to just accept it and " get used to it." I am going to follow former Pirates on other teams. The future is now!! I remember that the Pirates won the NL East in 1970, 71,72,74, 75, and 79. They came in 2nd in 76, 77, and 78. They came in 3rd in 73. Sounds like a Yankees decade? I am NOT going to accept this crap.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They need to hope that one (or multiple) of Reynolds, Polanco, either Frazier, Moran, Kuhl, or Brault show enough to fetch a decent return. I think Reynolds holds the most promise. They could probably deal from their middle infield depth and even Stallings for the right offer. My untouchables at this point would be Hayes and maybe Keller.

I was reading something the other day where they asked I think it was a major league scout which Pirates players (regulars, not pitchers) that were on the team now could be on the next potential Pirates' playoff team beside Hayes. And his answer was that maybe Reynolds could be, but probably no one else.

Point being, if you get a decent offer for any of them you have to take it.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

They also won the World Series in 71 and 79, their last time in the World Series.

Ponder that for a moment. Most Pirate fans (well, at least the ones that are left) weren't even born yet the last time the Pirates were in a World Series.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I was reading something the other day where they asked I think it was a major league scout which Pirates players (regulars, not pitchers) that were on the team now could be on the next potential Pirates' playoff team beside Hayes. And his answer was that maybe Reynolds could be, but probably no one else.

Point being, if you get a decent offer for any of them you have to take it.

Yeah. Thank god Hayes last year didn't get his clock ticking. But I am hoping at some point to see the debut of Quinn Priester. Many of scouts are really touting him, even moreso than when Keller was the same age. Also, some of these younger guys, and Cruz, I will be paying more attention to the minor league teams.

On a good note, Todd Frazier hit a HR today. That is one step closer to acquiring more young prospects.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So like the Pens thread, I will use this for repository for Bucco stuff. Again, yes, we know Bob Nutting is cheap. So I got that out of the way.

But Keith Law (ex ESPN now of the Athletic) came out with top 30 prospects for the MLB draft this year. And guess what? Kumar Rocker is no longer #1. He is #3. His teammate, RHP Jack Leiter is now #1. And that isn't totally unexpected. Rocker has greater top end speed on the fastball, but Leiter clocks in at 95 and has better pitches. But I should have put two and two together with Leiter.

Jack Leiter is the son of Al Leiter, nephew of Mark Leiter, both ex MLB pitchers. So he has good bloodlines and pedigree. I am kind of thinking that Leiter might be the guy now. Then again, some are saying High School shortstop Jordan Lawlor is the way to go. But if you are the Pirates, this is the only way you are going to get top end pitching talent.

On another note, and a classic Pirates note, the guy Law has slotted at 7th overall, Gunnar Hoglund (A RHP from Ole Miss) was the the 36th overall selection in the 2018 draft by the.....................PITTSBURGH PIRATES. Who went under slot and Hoglund bet on himself and chose college and well, won.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But Keith Law (ex ESPN now of the Athletic) came out with top 30 prospects for the MLB draft this year. And guess what? Kumar Rocker is no longer #1. He is #3.

Law has been saying all along (since at least last summer) that he didn't think that Rocker should be ranked the number one prospect.

 

[Panther Holla]

But he dated Elizabeth Taylor, Ava Gardner and Janet Leigh in their prime. Not a bad consolation prize!

How did Kiner have the energy to hit all those home runs?

 

[gary2]

And I am sure that is the mindset with signing Todd Frazier. Hope he starts off hot then move him at the deadline for some assets who need a veteran bat.

The team is being made better around the margins as prospects continue to be amassed.

The, veterans signed this off season are infinitely better than the veterans signed last season.

Wolters, Frazier, Difo, Goodwin, Fowler, and pitchers Anderson and Shreve.

The only mid age players acquired were Crowe and Bernard. Both will have a chance to contribute this year.

I like their plan.

 

[pittdan77]

To correct some of you...Nutting is not cheap. He is focused on profits. Subtle difference but it is more telling about why the Pirates are what they are.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Future Pittsburgh Pirate Kumar Rocker.

 

[pittmeister]

I was reading something the other day where they asked I think it was a major league scout which Pirates players (regulars, not pitchers) that were on the team now could be on the next potential Pirates' playoff team beside Hayes. And his answer was that maybe Reynolds could be, but probably no one else.

Point being, if you get a decent offer for any of them you have to take it.

I agree with your last point about getting a decent offer, you pull the trigger.

I don’t mind players being traded as long as you get a good return. The Cole and Archer trades were absolute disasters. On one side we get practically nothing in return for a big time player. On the other side, we trade young prospects and get nothing in return...

 

[HailToPitt725]

Raise it! Pirates win on Opening Day. Ke’Bryan Hayes hit a 2-run HR in the first and they never gave the lead back. They’re going to struggle this year but I expect there’ll be a few bright spots to follow.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Try not to look at the tragic car accident! You will be forever scared!

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Raise it! Pirates win on Opening Day. Ke’Bryan Hayes hit a 2-run HR in the first and they never gave the lead back. They’re going to struggle this year but I expect there’ll be a few bright spots to follow.

They will struggle for sure. But I don't think they will be the worst team in the league this year.

 

[Parkview57]

The Pirates biggest impediment to success over the last 30 years hasn’t been their spending

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Raise it! Pirates win on Opening Day. Ke’Bryan Hayes hit a 2-run HR in the first

How many years do they give him before they unload him too?

 

[Ski11585]

They will struggle for sure. But I don't think they will be the worst team in the league this year.

They need to tank.

 

[CougarClaws]

I was so disappointed in the Cubs yesterday. The Pirates gave them so many opportunities to come back in this game. Not going to get 1st-overall next year if they keep this up.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I was so disappointed in the Cubs yesterday. The Pirates gave them so many opportunities to come back in this game. Not going to get 1st-overall next year if they keep this up.

Not going to lie, getting Rocker/Leiter and Elijah Green in back-to-back years would be pretty sweet and likely worth another long season.

 

[PA_Panther]

Just insane how fundamentally horrid the Pirates are on the base paths. Getting pick off when your batter showed bunt is absolutely ridiculous to start the inning. Then Fowler not tagging on a deep fly ball.

I know the analytics and everything about how small ball and bunting is bad. However, when the Pirates got runners on first and second with no outs and a lefty on the mound vs. Polanco; he has no chance at least make his out productive and have him bunt.

 

[CougarClaws]

Not going to lie, getting Rocker/Leiter and Elijah Green in back-to-back years would be pretty sweet and likely worth another long season.

That's the plan IMO. Nothing good comes from overachieving this year.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

They need to tank.

And they will. Hell yesterday, if it wasn't for the Cubs walking every other batter and being constantly behind the count. But the Buccos made enough base running gaffes, I mean they should have won 9-3. So if they keep those up, they will lose their 100.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not going to lie, getting Rocker/Leiter and Elijah Green in back-to-back years would be pretty sweet and likely worth another long season.

Yes. A successful season for the Pirates is as follows.

1) 100 losses.
2) KeBryan Hayes being all that he is touted (looks favorable this will happen)
3) Mitch Keller to establish himself.
4) Colin Moran has like 20 HR's by the Trade Deadline so you can trade him for prospects.
5) Gregory Polanco to somehow find himself so he has trade value.
6) Rich Rodriguez establish himself as a lights out closer so he has trade value.
7) Later in the season guys like Quinn Priester progress enough to get a call up.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

They need to tank.

I think they will. I'm guessing useful parts will be sold at the deadline and they will settle back towards the bottom. I think they will be surprisingly competitive until then.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I think they will. I'm guessing useful parts will be sold at the deadline and they will settle back towards the bottom. I think they will be surprisingly competitive until then.

Let's just bide our time until the annual July 15 collapse.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Let's just bide our time until the annual July 15 collapse.

For me it's all about the young player development and the trade deadline this year. Actual winning is a bonus.

 

[sonofabit]

Future Pittsburgh Pirate Kumar Rocker.

View embedded media

Post pitch mannerisms remind me of Dwight Gooden early on.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Actually I'm hoping for more Bucco b.s. like the "Zoltan" hand gesture from years ago to distract us from the sub par product on the field. Wonder what they can come up with?

Seems they need to create something to inspire some kind of interest.

It’s much cheaper to create gimmicks than wins.

 

[CougarClaws]

Post pitch mannerisms remind me of Dwight Gooden early on.

I noticed that too. A thicker more muscled Dwight Gooden.

 

[Parkview57]

For me it's all about the young player development and the trade deadline this year.

Understood, but I think today's game is an indicator of what your in for, lousy, boring , losing baseball, for a long time. I have basically had it. The roster is trash.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Understood, but I think today's game is an indicator of what your in for, lousy, boring , losing baseball, for a long time. I have basically had it. The roster is trash.

Yeah
That’s what a true burning it down rebuild looks like

 

[FreeportPanther]

Understood, but I think today's game is an indicator of what your in for, lousy, boring , losing baseball, for a long time. I have basically had it. The roster is trash.

I tried to watch a bit of that game. I had forgotten how incredibly boring professional baseball had become.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I tried to watch a bit of that game. I had forgotten how incredibly boring professional baseball had become.

Yeah I don't watch it. I follow the team, may go to a game here and there, but I don't spend time on watching a losing team. I'll tune in from time to time once they start improving (or at least playing a roster full of young players). Maybe that makes me a front runner but I'm too busy these days.

 

[HailToPitt725]

A tad bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed FOX Sports’ rebrand to Bally Sports? I see some of their games on MLB Network and I’m not a huge fan of their scorebugs.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You know I have been thinking about what they can do to make MLB baseball more palatable. Obvious answers are a) speed it up and b) put the ball in play.

I have some things:
1) Limit pitching changes. Go into a game and in 9 innings limit it to 4 pitchers. You can add as extra innings. This eliminates the constant lefty/righty switches. That used to happen maybe once a game, now it seems like it happens every inning between 6-8. Amazing how a "closer" can pitch to either side, but the relievers leading up to it can't.
2) You have been warming up in the bullpen, you don't need 8 warmup pitches from the mound. 3 and go.
3) Eliminate shifts. How can you do that? Easy. NBA has rules against zone defenses. The NFL has all kinds of quirky rules about covering up a TE, or if the WR is not on the line, I mean if the WR is standing 1 yard off the line, what real difference does it make? So why can't you limit two infielders on either side of the infield?
4) Fire anyone in the front office with a math degree. LOL....just kidding. Maybe.
5) Stop the ridiculous replays to see if a runner when stealing a base or any baserunning play has a pinky who momentarily leaves the base when sliding. It should be did the ball beat the runner and was a tag applied correctly? That's it. There was never any intention to parse frame by frame during the slide that a the hand may leave the bag for an instant while the tag is applied.
6) Electronic strike zone. No wonder these guys take so many pitches, they have little idea what the strike zone is at that moment.

 

[HailToPitt725]

You know I have been thinking about what they can do to make MLB baseball more palatable. Obvious answers are a) speed it up and b) put the ball in play.

I have some things:
1) Limit pitching changes. Go into a game and in 9 innings limit it to 4 pitchers. You can add as extra innings. This eliminates the constant lefty/righty switches. That used to happen maybe once a game, now it seems like it happens every inning between 6-8. Amazing how a "closer" can pitch to either side, but the relievers leading up to it can't.
2) You have been warming up in the bullpen, you don't need 8 warmup pitches from the mound. 3 and go.
3) Eliminate shifts. How can you do that? Easy. NBA has rules against zone defenses. The NFL has all kinds of quirky rules about covering up a TE, or if the WR is not on the line, I mean if the WR is standing 1 yard off the line, what real difference does it make? So why can't you limit two infielders on either side of the infield?
4) Fire anyone in the front office with a math degree. LOL....just kidding. Maybe.
5) Stop the ridiculous replays to see if a runner when stealing a base or any baserunning play has a pinky who momentarily leaves the base when sliding. It should be did the ball beat the runner and was a tag applied correctly? That's it. There was never any intention to parse frame by frame during the slide that a the hand may leave the bag for an instant while the tag is applied.
6) Electronic strike zone. No wonder these guys take so many pitches, they have little idea what the strike zone is at that moment.

7) You can’t pull a pitcher if he hasn’t given up a hit yet, pitch counts be damned!!

 

[FreeportPanther]

You know I have been thinking about what they can do to make MLB baseball more palatable. Obvious answers are a) speed it up and b) put the ball in play.

I have some things:
1) Limit pitching changes. Go into a game and in 9 innings limit it to 4 pitchers. You can add as extra innings. This eliminates the constant lefty/righty switches. That used to happen maybe once a game, now it seems like it happens every inning between 6-8. Amazing how a "closer" can pitch to either side, but the relievers leading up to it can't.
2) You have been warming up in the bullpen, you don't need 8 warmup pitches from the mound. 3 and go.
3) Eliminate shifts. How can you do that? Easy. NBA has rules against zone defenses. The NFL has all kinds of quirky rules about covering up a TE, or if the WR is not on the line, I mean if the WR is standing 1 yard off the line, what real difference does it make? So why can't you limit two infielders on either side of the infield?
4) Fire anyone in the front office with a math degree. LOL....just kidding. Maybe.
5) Stop the ridiculous replays to see if a runner when stealing a base or any baserunning play has a pinky who momentarily leaves the base when sliding. It should be did the ball beat the runner and was a tag applied correctly? That's it. There was never any intention to parse frame by frame during the slide that a the hand may leave the bag for an instant while the tag is applied.
6) Electronic strike zone. No wonder these guys take so many pitches, they have little idea what the strike zone is at that moment.

Those are all great suggestions.
You have my vote for Commissioner.
Toss in a salary cap and it just might reinvigorate the game.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

You know I have been thinking about what they can do to make MLB baseball more palatable. Obvious answers are a) speed it up and b) put the ball in play.

I have some things:
1) Limit pitching changes. Go into a game and in 9 innings limit it to 4 pitchers. You can add as extra innings. This eliminates the constant lefty/righty switches. That used to happen maybe once a game, now it seems like it happens every inning between 6-8. Amazing how a "closer" can pitch to either side, but the relievers leading up to it can't.
2) You have been warming up in the bullpen, you don't need 8 warmup pitches from the mound. 3 and go.
3) Eliminate shifts. How can you do that? Easy. NBA has rules against zone defenses. The NFL has all kinds of quirky rules about covering up a TE, or if the WR is not on the line, I mean if the WR is standing 1 yard off the line, what real difference does it make? So why can't you limit two infielders on either side of the infield?
4) Fire anyone in the front office with a math degree. LOL....just kidding. Maybe.
5) Stop the ridiculous replays to see if a runner when stealing a base or any baserunning play has a pinky who momentarily leaves the base when sliding. It should be did the ball beat the runner and was a tag applied correctly? That's it. There was never any intention to parse frame by frame during the slide that a the hand may leave the bag for an instant while the tag is applied.
6) Electronic strike zone. No wonder these guys take so many pitches, they have little idea what the strike zone is at that moment.

Want more action -
Drop the mound to force more hits
Also with you on banning the shift