OT: Attn Tomlin apologists and Tomlin haters

[Fk_Pitt]

I treaded a fine line for years, sometimes hitching my wagon to the Tomlin train and other times to the anti Tomlin train. But here’s a little stat that brings clarity to the subject. Credit Joe Starkey:

If you take every coach in the league who has more than 3 years as a HC, there are 17 of them. Where would Mike Tomlin rank in average playoff wins per season?? Any guesses?

….






He ranks 12th and far far behind the top coaches in the game. He’s closer to Ron Rivera and the bottom than he is to the top. And he had a HOF QB for 90% of his career

So the standard is the standard and that standard is less than mediocre. Especially in a league where parity is the goal and 28 teams are in the playoff hunt midway through December.

Now, maybe he can pull a rabbit out of the hat and get to the playoffs and win this year. Maybe that will pull him up to 10th among active coaches.

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

I see the Steelers going 2-2 the rest of the way and going 9-8, good enough for the playoffs? Probably not.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Tomlin is like the Doc Rivers of the NFL. He needs a ton of talent absolutely everywhere to win. Makes bad tactical decisons in-game (worst in the league by far on 4th down decisions and challenges). Never really exceeds expectations because he is not a teacher or an innovator. He's just a guy who motivates his All-Stars and tells them to go play. Unfortunately, the Steelers are down to 2 All-Stars (both on defense) and one of them has been hurt a lot this year.

I can see Tomlin winning a lot in a place like Buffalo that has a pretty good roster. But if he stays here or goes to DC the results will be the same.

The Steelers have a developing roster (to put it charitably). They need someone who understands what each player does well/poorly and then coaches accordingly. Just like you don't ask Marty Schottenheimer to get you over the top, you do not ask Mike Tomlin to build a 7-9 team into a 12 win team. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

[NCanton Panther]

I treaded a fine line for years, sometimes hitching my wagon to the Tomlin train and other times to the anti Tomlin train. But here’s a little stat that brings clarity to the subject. Credit Joe Starkey:

If you take every coach in the league who has more than 3 years as a HC, there are 17 of them. Where would Mike Tomlin rank in average playoff wins per season?? Any guesses?

….






He ranks 12th and far far behind the top coaches in the game. He’s closer to Ron Rivera and the bottom than he is to the top. And he had a HOF QB for 90% of his career

So the standard is the standard and that standard is less than mediocre. Especially in a league where parity is the goal and 28 teams are in the playoff hunt midway through December.

Now, maybe he can pull a rabbit out of the hat and get to the playoffs and win this year. Maybe that will pull him up to 10th among active coaches.

Seems to be some contradiction in your thoughts. Start off using playoff wins as the metric and Tomlin falls short.

But then you state parity is the goal. Mike Tomlin with his 1-2 wins above a .500 record most years is the definition of parity.

Me, I have a new metric for what defines a good coach. When you get to this time in the season, are you more inclined to projecting what remaining games we need to win to make the playoffs, or how high a draft pick we can attain if we keep losing. Lean to the left on the above and a thumbs up to Tomlin, lean to the rught and let’s trade him to the Commanders.

Seriously, I’m tired of every year coming to this point in the season and wondering if it would be better for the Steelers to keep losing or pick up some wins.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I see the Steelers going 2-2 the rest of the way and going 9-8, good enough for the playoffs? Probably not.

In a conversation with Jay Glazer yesterday, Glazer was discussing how Tomlin is essentially the best coach in the league, while whoever the jabroni was he was talking to said that his non losing season record was the most impressive stat in sports. What???? Here’s an impressive stat….no playoff wins in 7 years.

The haters have been right all along.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Seems to be some contradiction in your thoughts. Start off using playoff wins as the metric and Tomlin falls short.

But then you state parity is the goal. Mike Tomlin with his 1-2 wins above a .500 record most years is the definition of parity.

Me, I have a new metric for what defines a good coach. When you get to this time in the season, are you more inclined to projecting what remaining games we need to win to make the playoffs, or how high a draft pick we can attain if we keep losing. Lean to the left on the above and a thumbs up to Tomlin, lean to the rught and let’s trade him to the Commanders.

Seriously, I’m tired of every year coming to this point in the season and wondering if it would be better for the Steelers to keep losing or pick up some wins.

There’s no contradiction. In this league, you’re supposed to go 8-8 and now either 9-8 or 8-9. It’s what the NFL wants…absolute parity. So being in the hunt in December isn’t some great accomplishment. It’s what you’re supposed to do. So those who put that non losing record ahead of everything are completely misguided and drawing at straws.

Playoff record should be what counts most.

 

[bobfree]

In a conversation with Jay Glazer yesterday, Glazer was discussing how Tomlin is essentially the best coach in the league, while whoever the jabroni was he was talking to said that his non losing season record was the most impressive stat in sports. What???? Here’s an impressive stat….no playoff wins in 7 years.

The haters have been right all along.

Do you know how hard it is to do what's he's done? So hard that no other person has ever achieved it?

It's not a coincidence as soon as Tom Brady stops taking a discount the pats haven't won shit. Kansas City is 8-5.

The last two games have been awful. And not moving on from Matt Canada was a terrible decision that might wreak his tenure here. But the dudes legit.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Do you know how hard it is to do what's he's done? So hard that no other person has ever achieved it?

It's not a coincidence as soon as Tom Brady stops taking a discount the pats haven't won shit. Kansas City is 8-5.

The last two games have been awful. And not moving on from Matt Canada was a terrible decision that might wreak his tenure here. But the dudes legit.

Good man. Good motivator. Good speaker. Hard worker. Underwhelming as a HC. Stats don’t lie.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

Goddammit. I thought you were going to give the secret coordinates for a meet up somewhere near the underground 4th river so we could have a gang fight West Side Story style!!! Settle this “ish” once and for all.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

By the way, the NFL just sucks right now. I

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Tomlin surrounds himself with people who won't challenge him. That's the problem. When they do, they "retire." see - Bruce Arians.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Tomlin is like the Doc Rivers of the NFL. He needs a ton of talent absolutely everywhere to win.

Except Tomlin does win, even in years with his HOF QB missing games due to injury.

I'd like you to find professional coach that wins without talent. Who are the Steelers going to hire that is going to get better results? Tomlin has his warts but I don't see anyone out there that screams "immediate upgrade." There's a thread on this board about Belichick -- would you move on from Tomlin and take him?

 

[Dan1911]

If the standard is winning championships and winning games in the playoffs, Tomlin has been below average for years. If the standard is to win enough games during the regular season to “look good” then he’s a great coach.

You Tomlin supporters are finding it harder and harder to grasp onto something to prove how great he is.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

its time for a change, it's that simple. he's over-stayed his welcome. he's a good coach and will get a job somewhere else the next day but BOTH sides need a change of scenery. 17 years in one organization is WAY TOO Long..

 

[pittdan77]

Except Tomlin does win, even in years with his HOF QB missing games due to injury.

I'd like you to find professional coach that wins without talent. Who are the Steelers going to hire that is going to get better results? Tomlin has his warts but I don't see anyone out there that screams "immediate upgrade." There's a thread on this board about Belichick -- would you move on from Tomlin and take him?

Because, Andy Reid.

Look, you can use very similar reasons as to why Philly shouldn't have moved on. Yeah, the last season was bad but he was trying to win with Trent Edwards and Michael Vick. Reid, by all accounts, was a great HC and the argument was very similar. He'd get picked up right away. Who else are you getting that will be that successful.

Anyway, should the Eagles regret that move? Was it the wrong move for them to make?

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

In a conversation with Jay Glazer yesterday, Glazer was discussing how Tomlin is essentially the best coach in the league, while whoever the jabroni was he was talking to said that his non losing season record was the most impressive stat in sports. What???? Here’s an impressive stat….no playoff wins in 7 years.

The haters have been right all along.

I think Glazer and Tomlin are best friends?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I think Glazer and Tomlin are best friends?

yeah, he's basically his PR cheerleader.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I think Glazer and Tomlin are best friends?

Well best friend in the national media is probably better stated. And he pleaded with Washington to come after Tomlin. Which makes me go hmmmmmm.

 

[H2Ppanthers]

Most overrated coach in Pro Sports history. He seems brain dead when he’s on the sideline too. I’m done with him.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Because, Andy Reid.

Look, you can use very similar reasons as to why Philly shouldn't have moved on. Yeah, the last season was bad but he was trying to win with Trent Edwards and Michael Vick. Reid, by all accounts, was a great HC and the argument was very similar. He'd get picked up right away. Who else are you getting that will be that successful.

Anyway, should the Eagles regret that move? Was it the wrong move for them to make?

If I was an Eagles fan, I would regret that move. Reid had quality seasons in KC even with Alex Smith at QB, and he has won two Super Bowls since leaving. I think Reid could have won SB LII with the roster Philly had that year.

The Eagles were 4-12 during Reid's final year, and that followed an 8-8 no playoff appearance year prior to that. If Tomlin bombs like that, then yeah it's time to move on. But I imagine Rooney is going to give him the chance to come back next season even if they lose out and finish 7-9 (provided he wants to come back for the final year of the current contract). If Tomlin only wins 4 or 5 games next year, then I think you have to make the move.

 

[Pitt79]

I'm starting to think it doesn't even matter, even if Tomlin goes, dumb ass Rooney will just find some other Neanderthal weak ass to run the ultra-safe, obsolete, conservative 1970s offense that he masturbates over. There's absolutely no hope for an innovative, aggressive, risk-taking modern offense with that idiot running things. Hey? Cignetti needs a job? That's a perfect guy for a stone age operation like the Steelers.

 

[Pitt79]

Because, Andy Reid.

Look, you can use very similar reasons as to why Philly shouldn't have moved on. Yeah, the last season was bad but he was trying to win with Trent Edwards and Michael Vick. Reid, by all accounts, was a great HC and the argument was very similar. He'd get picked up right away. Who else are you getting that will be that successful.

Anyway, should the Eagles regret that move? Was it the wrong move for them to make?

No they won a Super Bowl and went to another Super Bowl, it would be worth a few losing seasons, even bad ones like 4-13 to win another Super Bowl.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Except Tomlin does win, even in years with his HOF QB missing games due to injury.

I'd like you to find professional coach that wins without talent. Who are the Steelers going to hire that is going to get better results? Tomlin has his warts but I don't see anyone out there that screams "immediate upgrade." There's a thread on this board about Belichick -- would you move on from Tomlin and take him?

Since you're so interested in Tomlin's record breaking history as a non-losing coach, I'd like to offer another record that Tomlin just broke.

He's the first coach in NFL history to lose back to back home games to 2-10 teams.

The Steelers had a modern NFL record of approximately 50 straight games without 400 yards.

So let's be fair on the history stuff. He's standing out in some very bad ways recently.

These are my value-add conditions for the determination of quality coaching. Tell me how Tomlin has done in the last 10 years according to you:

- championships (none);
- playoff record (3-7 since 2011; no wins in the last 7 years);
- overall record (102-66-2; not bad);
- point differential (negative in 3 of the last 4 years, so even though we've managed a lot of close wins, we're also suffering a lot of blowout losses recently);
- player development (Watt has been great. We traded for Minkah. Highsmith is pretty good. Diontae is above-average. Is anyone else special? Broderick Jones could be. There are 53 guys on the roster. I'd argue we have almost no difference makers across the board and a lot of positions are flat out bad. We're a bottom 5 OL. The defense is 21st in yards allowed per game. None of the QBs seem able to make simple progressions. Players we get rid of are suddenly looking much better on other teams. Who is responsible for that?).

Who could the Steelers hire that is better than Tomlin? I dunno. But I am not particularly worried about it because Tomlin's teams are becoming worse and worse and I don't see the qualities in him that will lead to a turnaround for him in Pittsburgh. On another roster with a lot of talent, I except he will do better.

 

[accindc]

I'm starting to think it doesn't even matter, even if Tomlin goes, dumb ass Rooney will just find some other Neanderthal weak ass to run the ultra-safe, obsolete, conservative 1970s offense that he masturbates over. There's absolutely no hope for an innovative, aggressive, risk-taking modern offense with that idiot running things. Hey? Cignetti needs a job? That's a perfect guy for a stone age operation like the Steelers.

This is the problem. Have no faith in Rooney picking a replacement. Hopefully it would be Khan and Weidl, who I would have some faith in finding a quality coach.

Just like with the Pitt staff. the Steeler coaching staff need a complete overhaul, starting with the OC and OL coaches.

 

[pittdan77]

If I was an Eagles fan, I would regret that move. Reid had quality seasons in KC even with Alex Smith at QB, and he has won two Super Bowls since leaving. I think Reid could have won SB LII with the roster Philly had that year.

The Eagles were 4-12 during Reid's final year, and that followed an 8-8 no playoff appearance year prior to that. If Tomlin bombs like that, then yeah it's time to move on. But I imagine Rooney is going to give him the chance to come back next season even if they lose out and finish 7-9 (provided he wants to come back for the final year of the current contract). If Tomlin only wins 4 or 5 games next year, then I think you have to make the move.

My point was that the Eagles won a SB since then and are one of the best teams in the NFL.

What Rooney does and doesn't do is another story but few coaches get this much latitude to be this mediocre. Especially with a franchise that has such high expectations.

I've defended Tomlin when it was pretty obvious that there were circumstances that should be taken into account. To me, it's past that point and it's time to move on. And personally, unless Tomlin inherits a talented, SB caliber team, he's not going to build a franchise into a champion. He inherited HOF talent and had some brought in, here, and failed with them. It's time to move on.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Tomlin 2 began in like 2019. That's when he was either without Ben or with a much lesser version of him.

His big achievement that season was the 7-1 stretch against:

Miami (5-11)
Indy (7-9)
LA Rams (9-7)
Cleveland (6-10)
Cincy (2-14)
Cleveland (6-10)
Arizona (5-10)

Going 7-1 in that stretch (they were 1-1 against Cleveland and beat the other six) is what got them to 8-8.

2020 was a weird season. We came out hot and then imploded. Not sure exactly what to make of that season,

Then he was back to his 2019 tricks with a shot Ben in 2021. 9-7-1 with wins against:

Buffalo (11-6)... weird aberration game this first week of the season
Denver (7-10)
Seattle (7-10)
Cleveland x2 (8-9)
Chicago (6-11)
Baltimore x2 (8-9)... one of those was with Huntley
Tennessee (12-5)... wasn't Tennessee down some guys in that one?

And a tie against:
Detroit (3-13-1)

Then we did the same stuff again last season: 6-1 stretch run against bad/demoralized teams and backup quarterbacks to get to 9-8.

And here we are this season - surprise, surprise - doing the same old garbage. Muddying up games and hoping to come out on the good side of .500. Not striving to get any better or play a style of football that could get you anything beyond a backdoor wildcard berth.

So...

Tomlin 1: Not dipping below .500 with a HOF QB in or near his prime doesn't impress me much.

Tomlin 2: This muddying up the games and hoping to come out on top of a coin flip style of play has been going on too long. I'd have to see, but it seems like other teams are shutting guys down - and dare I even suggest tanking - and beating teams like that 13-10 late in the season is what's keeping this non-losing season thing afloat. We shouldn't still be doing this. We should be sinking or swimming with a modern offensive approach in hopes of improving and becoming a contender at some point. Other than the Ravens, whose number we seem to oddly have at the moment because they let us drag them down into the mud, we cannot hang with good teams.

If you're telling me it isn't time for a modern offensive mind (or at least a guy who is willing to hire a modern offensive-minded coordinator), I strongly disagree. Hell yeah we might have a losing season along the way, because we'll actually be taking chances as opposed to dancing around the ring protecting our head for 11 rounds. But so what? Take the training wheels off and experience a few falls. Frankly, I'm sick of watching this team and it's approach for the last few seasons.

 

[pittbb80]

Since you're so interested in Tomlin's record breaking history as a non-losing coach, I'd like to offer another record that Tomlin just broke.

He's the first coach in NFL history to lose back to back home games to 2-10 teams.

The Steelers had a modern NFL record of approximately 50 straight games without 400 yards.

So let's be fair on the history stuff. He's standing out in some very bad ways recently.

These are my value-add conditions for the determination of quality coaching. Tell me how Tomlin has done in the last 10 years according to you:

- championships (none);
- playoff record (3-7 since 2011; no wins in the last 7 years);
- overall record (102-66-2; not bad);
- point differential (negative in 3 of the last 4 years, so even though we've managed a lot of close wins, we're also suffering a lot of blowout losses recently);
- player development (Watt has been great. We traded for Minkah. Highsmith is pretty good. Diontae is above-average. Is anyone else special? Broderick Jones could be. There are 53 guys on the roster. I'd argue we have almost no difference makers across the board and a lot of positions are flat out bad. We're a bottom 5 OL. The defense is 21st in yards allowed per game. None of the QBs seem able to make simple progressions. Players we get rid of are suddenly looking much better on other teams. Who is responsible for that?).

Who could the Steelers hire that is better than Tomlin? I dunno. But I am not particularly worried about it because Tomlin's teams are becoming worse and worse and I don't see the qualities in him that will lead to a turnaround for him in Pittsburgh. On another roster with a lot of talent, I except he will do better.

Sirianni, McDaniel type guys come to mind. Then there this guy Sean Payton who has done a remarkable job at Denver this year. Guys like that can be hired. We rag on Rooney and rightfully so but the job is still one of the most attractive jobs in the country This argument that you wont find a better coach is total BS.

 

[pittbb80]

My point was that the Eagles won a SB since then and are one of the best teams in the NFL.

What Rooney does and doesn't do is another story but few coaches get this much latitude to be this mediocre. Especially with a franchise that has such high expectations.

I've defended Tomlin when it was pretty obvious that there were circumstances that should be taken into account. To me, it's past that point and it's time to move on. And personally, unless Tomlin inherits a talented, SB caliber team, he's not going to build a franchise into a champion. He inherited HOF talent and had some brought in, here, and failed with them. It's time to move on.

Well said. This year is the year that broke the camels back for me. Keeping Canada and the two losses to 2-11 teams indicates its time to make a change. That and continuing to allow the bullshit that goes on with guys like Pickets and Johnson. Then add in not starting Porter and Jones from Day 1. Just terrible.

If and when he does move on a new environment and learning from his mistakes here may reinvigorate his career. But hed have to totally change his approach to hiring OC and DCs. Theyve all been duds the last 5 years or so and IMO that is the major reason why hes failed.

 

[pittdan77]

If you're telling me it isn't time for a modern offensive mind (or at least a guy who is willing to hire a modern offensive-minded coordinator), I strongly disagree. Hell yeah we might have a losing season along the way, because we'll actually be taking chances as opposed to dancing around the ring protecting our head for 11 rounds. But so what? Take the training wheels off and experience a few falls. Frankly, I'm sick of watching this team and it's approach for the last few seasons.

To me, there isn't any difference between a losing season and a mediocre season with another WC playoff loss except draft position.

 

[Pitt79]

If and when he does move on a new environment and learning from his mistakes here may reinvigorate his career. But hed have to totally change his approach to hiring OC and DCs. Theyve all been duds the last 5 years or so and IMO that is the major reason why hes failed.

He might even do better without dumb ass Rooney and the idiotic "Steelers Way" dragging him down.

 

[Upg bobcat]

My point was that the Eagles won a SB since then and are one of the best teams in the NFL.

Them being one of the best teams in the NFL right now has nothing to do with Andy Reid getting fired over a decade ago, though. Nor does it have anything to do with them firing Pederson. I don't view Sirianni as this huge upgrade from Pederson.

I just don't see the grass being any greener on the other side if we move on from Tomlin. I have plenty of issues with him. But I don't see us getting better with some other coach. Who are we targeting? Belichick? Harbaugh? Bieniemy? Vrabel if the Titans fire him? Another coach might have some fresh new gimmick that is good to win a couple games here and there, but it will be nothing but a gimmick and it won't deliver a Super Bowl, certainly not with the roster as it current exists.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

To me, there isn't any difference between a losing season and a mediocre season with another WC playoff loss except draft position.

Yeah, the difference is just one more weekend with an excuse to drink beer.

Games like at Kansas City in the 2021 season's playoffs, when we were just so outmanned and watching while waiting for the wheels to come off, aren't exactly what I call a success story.

Having a team that is full of youth and excitement lose in the wildcard round - sure! Those are the teams I can get behind. But watching the Steelers play in the playoffs right now would be akin to if 70-year-old Hulk Hogan were to dig up Macho Man Randy Savage and wrestle him tomorrow. The thought of Hogan vs Savage would generate some initial excitement.... but then it'd just be, "Oh yeah, but I forgot how depressing the product actually is right now."

 

[pittmeister]

The team is STALE. Tomlin is only one of the problems.

There needs to be an influx of new ideas, new energy, and better discipline on the team.

Coaching Staff - Staff needs to be expanded to match other teams.

Quality of coaches – The quality of coaches on the are HIGHLY questionable. Need better coordinators and position coaches. They need to challenge the head coach and not be a yes man. If you’re not going to can Tomlin, then Omar and Rooney need to be more involved in the coaching hires.

Players win games – This past season was the best drafting from top to bottom in years. That’s because there was a change. That is the truth. Khan, Weidl and a new scouting staff is just what was needed. It was stale.

Teams are not just built at the top of the draft. It’s built in the middle and late rounds as well and Colbert did not do a good job in his last years as GM.

Tomlin – This will require a bold move, but if it were my decision, I would replace Tomlin with a young talented coach. I would hire Brian Flores. He is 42 and has a great defensive mind. He has experience as a head coach. If you don’t replace him, I would offer him the DC job plus assistant HC. Tomlin's seat is too comfortable. He needs a wake-up call. Hiring Flores as DC and assistant HC will get his attention. If you do nothing, nothing will change.

17 years and only 4 years with a playoff victory (It should have been only 3 years thanks to the Bengals implosion in the playoff game). That’s not good enough.

 

[pittbb80]

He might even do better without dumb ass Rooney and the idiotic "Steelers Way" dragging him down.

What evidence to you have that the Rooneys are holding him back? The Rooney way has been to hire a top notch coach and get out of the way and support him. The only criticism of the Rooney way is that they have stood behind him too long. If you believe the reporting that they fired Canada that may be changing

 

[Pitt79]

If you're telling me it isn't time for a modern offensive mind (or at least a guy who is willing to hire a modern offensive-minded coordinator), I strongly disagree. Hell yeah we might have a losing season along the way, because we'll actually be taking chances as opposed to dancing around the ring protecting our head for 11 rounds. But so what? Take the training wheels off and experience a few falls. Frankly, I'm sick of watching this team and it's approach for the last few seasons.

I've been thinking this for at least 25 YEARS!

 

[pittdan77]

Them being one of the best teams in the NFL right now has nothing to do with Andy Reid getting fired over a decade ago, though.

If Tomlin isn't canned he's still going to be here a decade from now. No chance the Steelers are any closer to a championship with the way he's coaching.

 

[Pitt79]

What evidence to you have that the Rooneys are holding him back? The Rooney way has been to hire a top notch coach and get out of the way and support him. The only criticism of the Rooney way is that they have stood behind him too long. If you believe the reporting that they fired Canada that may be changing

They don't get out of the way, every year Rooney has a press conference talking about RUNNING THE BALL MORE, isn't it suspicious that we never have an aggressive, modern offensive scheme, the scheme is always something out of a 1970s Yinzer Leather Helmet football museum.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Them being one of the best teams in the NFL right now has nothing to do with Andy Reid getting fired over a decade ago, though. Nor does it have anything to do with them firing Pederson. I don't view Sirianni as this huge upgrade from Pederson.

I just don't see the grass being any greener on the other side if we move on from Tomlin. I have plenty of issues with him. But I don't see us getting better with some other coach. Who are we targeting? Belichick? Harbaugh? Bieniemy? Vrabel is the Titans fire him? Another coach might have some fresh new gimmick that is good to win a couple games here and there, but it will be nothing but a gimmick and it won't deliver a Super Bowl, certainly not with the roster as it current exists.

Are you confident Tomlin can even sniff a Super Bowl again? I mean, we haven't even been close ever since Ben was in his prime... and we were all too often not close even with Ben in his prime.

Looking at this roster, we're effectively starting from something pretty close to scratch. That isn't Tomlin's specialty at all. When all those guys on defense aged out, it took him forever and a day to rebuild that side of the ball.

In 8 drafts, we devoted 12 of our 16 1st and 2nd round picks to that side of the ball, including all 8 1st rounders. And what happened in the process? The offense completely fell apart. And here we are doing the exact opposite (not even successfully; this offense still sucks) while the defense falls apart.

 

[lilspainishflea]

The team is STALE. Tomlin is only one of the problems.

There needs to be an influx of new ideas, new energy, and better discipline on the team.

Coaching Staff - Staff needs to be expanded to match other teams.

Quality of coaches – The quality of coaches on the are HIGHLY questionable. Need better coordinators and position coaches. They need to challenge the head coach and not be a yes man. If you’re not going to can Tomlin, then Omar and Rooney need to be more involved in the coaching hires.

Players win games – This past season was the best drafting from top to bottom in years. That’s because there was a change. That is the truth. Khan, Weidl and a new scouting staff is just what was needed. It was stale.

Teams are not just built at the top of the draft. It’s built in the middle and late rounds as well and Colbert did not do a good job in his last years as GM.

Tomlin – This will require a bold move, but if it were my decision, I would replace Tomlin with a young talented coach. I would hire Brian Flores. He is 42 and has a great defensive mind. He has experience as a head coach. If you don’t replace him, I would offer him the DC job plus assistant HC. His seat is too comfortable. He needs a wake-up call. Hiring Flores as DC and assistant HC will get his attention. If you do nothing, nothing will change.

17 years and only 4 years with a playoff victory (It should have been only 3 years thanks to the Bengals implosion). That’s not good enough.

Flores was an absolute dumpster fire in Miami and did everything on and off field to sabotage Tua in favor of Deshaun Watson. He's a non-starter to me as a HC.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Well said. This year is the year that broke the camels back for me. Keeping Canada and the two losses to 2-11 teams indicates its time to make a change. That and continuing to allow the bullshit that goes on with guys like Pickets and Johnson. Then add in not starting Porter and Jones from Day 1. Just terrible.

If and when he does move on a new environment and learning from his mistakes here may reinvigorate his career. But hed have to totally change his approach to hiring OC and DCs. Theyve all been duds the last 5 years or so and IMO that is the major reason why hes failed.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the personnel issues. It makes absolutely no sense that Jones and Porter, our best players at 2 premium positions, sat as long as they did. Similar with Pickett being the 3rd string QB all Spring/Summer and getting no reps before being randomly thrown in completely cold during an exceptionally difficult stretch of games.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tomlin is stubborn. He insists on doing it his way. We win or lose on the same dumb stuff every single week: short throws to the outside, putting LB on slot WR, toss plays to a slow RB, using the same stupid kicker every week, limited reps for talented young players in favor of obviously worse veterans. He's a guy who just doesn't have the answers anymore and the sooner we're done with him the better.