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OT: Copa America

Ok. Well he would know. He’s connected. How ironic would it be if his buddy Ancelotti ended up here next year and Jesse was still in Canada?

Ancelotti is a great coach, one of the best ever. But his situation with Brazil shows how hard it is to get a name coach to coach a national team.

Brazil was convinced he was going to take their job, even if they had to wait a year for him to finish out his contract. Then Real said, not so fast, and now he's under contract there till 26. So it's unlikely he'll coach the US or any national team at the World Cup.

The US should absolutely reach out to Klopp and every other big name coach who's available. But in the end they're probably getting turned down
 
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This is tremendous and comprehensive and ssshhhh no one really reads this so....But you all should read it. It's so long, I had to paste in plain text and over two posts.

Part 1:

Why USMNT isn't as good as it thinks after Copa America exit

Ryan O'Hanlon, ESPN.com writer

It really seemed like they might do it.

The move started in their own half and lasted for nearly a full minute. It featured 13 passes of varying levels of intricacy, pushing the ball patiently forward, working it from left to right. An initial thrust toward goal was denied, possession cycled backward, but then just enough space appeared: A playmaker got on the ball on the half-turn between the defensive and midfield lines, slipped a through ball to the center forward, whose perfect first touch set up a cool finish past the keeper at the near post.


It's everything we've wanted from the United States for years: a team-wide ability to create chances out of patient possession, someone with the vision to make the right passes around the penalty area, and a striker who would make the right runs and finish his chances. It couldn't have come at a better time, either; it appeared the goal would push the Americans into the quarterfinals of the Copa América.

Unfortunately, the goal wasn't actually scored by the Americans. For two or three minutes in the second half on Tuesday, Bolívia had evened up the score with Panama 1-1, while the U.S. was still scoreless with Uruguay. Gregg Berhalter & Co. were going through! Until a Uruguay goal off a set piece, followed by two more goals by Panama, and ... disaster.

The U.S. came into the tournament with something like an 85% chance of advancing, and yet they just got dumped out of the Copa América in the group stages with a 1-0 loss.

But it's not even that, really. Weird stuff can happen in international tournaments -- even to the best teams. The bigger issue is the way they went out -- not just losing in a must-win game at home, but only attempting eight shots and not creating a single chance of note. Uruguay is a good team, but it's not France or Argentina.

Sure, there are plenty of questions about the coaching, but with two years to go until the World Cup and not another competitive game of real value before then, the USMNT's golden generation seems like it might be stuck.


The promise
Let's go back to, say, 2019 or early 2020. Simpler times for everyone, including the handful of young men who made up America's elite soccer talent.

At the absolute top, you had Christian Pulisic. After three successful teenage seasons with Borussia Dortmund, he made the move that should frighten any international fan base: he signed with Chelsea for €64 million.

Rather than celebrating this massive fee paid to sign a 20-year-old American soccer player and what it might mean for the development of the sport in this country, or the financial well-being of the player, many fans worried about what this might mean for Pulisic's playing time and therefore his performance with the U.S. At a notoriously chaotic club that has no problem spending €50 million or more on players at the same position in consecutive transfer windows, would Pulisic have the same starting-lineup safety he had at Dortmund?

While he struggled with injuries, Pulisic was lights-out when he was on the field in his first season in England. He ranked second on the team in non-penalty goals+assists per 90 minutes (0.68) and had a legitimate case as the best player in the Premier League during Project Restart, the final period of the season played behind closed doors after the campaign was paused because of the COVID-19 pandemic. With Pulisic doing this at age 20, it really seemed like the U.S. might finally have its first superstar.

And then, suddenly, it seemed like the U.S. might have two. A season later, Giovanni Reyna made 23 starts for Dortmund in his age-17 season, scoring five goals and adding four assists. Minutes at a young age are the best predictor of future success and at the end of the 2020-21 season, his was among the top five for career minutes played in the "Big Five" leagues among players born in 2002 or later:

1. Eduardo Camavinga: 4,883 minutes
2. Florian Wirtz: 2,595 minutes
3. Pedri: 2,428 minutes
4. Giovanni Reyna: 2,326 minutes
5. Jude Bellingham: 1,701 minutes

After a breakout campaign with Ajax Amsterdam in 2019-20, Sergiño Dest moved to Barcelona for €21m at the age of 19. Tyler Adams at 21 scored the winning goal in the 2020 Champions League quarterfinals for RB Leipzig and the following year played starter minutes for the team that finished in second place in the Bundesliga. Brenden Aaronson became a starter as a teenager for an FC Salzburg team that was consistently competitive in the Champions League. And in the so-called summer transfer window between the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons, Weston McKennie moved to Juventus, which had signed Cristiano Ronaldo a year prior and was coming off its ninth straight Serie A title.

Throw in Chris Richards and Timothy Weah, academy products at Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain, respectively, and there was plenty to get excited about for a country that hadn't even qualified for the previous World Cup.

The reality
Of those eight players, not a single one has hit on his best-case scenario.

Pulisic never started more games for Chelsea than he did in his first season. He continued to struggle with injuries, constant managerial changes at the club and his own poor form. It seems he has found his place at AC Milan after moving last summer, but being one of the better players on one of the better teams in Italy is some way away from the superstar it appeared he legitimately might become.

Pulisic's 12 goals and eight assists this past season were well above his 8.0 expected goals and 4.8 expected assists -- both of which are much better predictors of future performance. He's also taking fewer touches inside the penalty area -- and finding space inside the box used to be his one true world-class skill. Pulisic is a fantastic player and still easily the greatest American to ever play the game, but he's a fringe top-100 player in the world, rather than someone pushing the top 20.

As for Reyna, well, you don't need me to tell you, do you? OK, fine, here it is: He has played fewer minutes combined in the past four seasons than he did in 2020-21 alone. As a professional soccer player, he has barely played professional soccer.

Dest missed the Copa América with a torn ACL, and I think we saw how reliant this team actually is on his tight-space creativity to constantly move the ball upfield. He was one of the best players on one of the best PSV Eindhoven teams of all time this past season, but you'll notice that he's back in the Eredivisie, rather than still with Barcelona.

Adams appeared to have the potential to be a Champions League-level defensive midfielder -- and I genuinely think he has reached that tier of performance at times, both for club and country -- but he spent last season at a Leeds United team that was relegated from the Premier League. He's at AFC Bournemouth now, and he has started one league game since March 2023.

McKennie continues to start for Juventus -- aside from an ill-fated loan spell with Leeds in the second half of last season -- and he is the closest to hitting his 99th-percentile outcome among any of these guys. But at Juve, he's much more of an auxiliary or utility player: someone who makes runs off the ball and fills in space, rather than someone who is going to get on the ball a ton in the midfield. He helps the great players be great.

At the highest level, Aaronson, meanwhile, hasn't shown the ability to produce much at all with the ball. He's a fantastic presser ... and that's about it, which is a problem for an attacker. I still think about the image of him getting stoned in an open-space one-on-one by 32-year-old Daley Blind, as close to a traffic cone as there is among defenders at the highest level, during the Americans' loss to Netherlands at the 2022 World Cup.

Weah and Richards have done well for themselves, the former getting minutes for Juventus and the latter starting for Crystal Palace. And others such as Yunus Musah, Johnny Cardoso, Joe Scally, Malik Tillman and Ricardo Pepi give the U.S. more depth than usual from players who are getting playing time at the highest levels of European soccer. But they're depth players, not difference makers.

The dirty little secret is that beyond Pulisic, the talent level really hasnt increased by any great margin. I think we are fooled a bit because the players play in big leagues. I think that has something to do with international scouts taking a more serious look at US players. Previous generations have players who would have started for this team:

Dempsey
Donovan
Jermaine Jones
Jozy Altidore when he's not hurt
A younger Michael Bradley
Tim Howard
DaMarcus Beasley

The current players and depth overall is better. But not by a whole lot.
 
You posit six players that should play for the US in the Olympics, but hey, only in the knockout rounds so maybe their clubs will agree. Olympic soccer rosters are 18 players, 16 outfield and two goalies. So your six guys play in the knockout rounds, that means in group play the US has 10 outfield players available. No subs at all. Injuries? To bad, get out there or we are playing a man down. Or hey, that backup goalie is just sitting there, bring him on in the midfield.

The chance that they make the knockout round in your scheme is nearly zero. Or in other words, it would be a huge waste of everyone's time. But one that would almost certainly piss off the player's club teams.

Great plan!

No. I meant that you bring in 1 or 2 guys just for the knockouts. The others on the full roster. Like hypothetically, would AC Milan allow Pulisic to miss 1 week of camp for the knockouts. Probably not. But you ask.
 
The dirty little secret is that beyond Pulisic, the talent level really hasnt increased by any great margin. I think we are fooled a bit because the players play in big leagues. I think that has something to do with international scouts taking a more serious look at US players. Previous generations have players who would have started for this team:

Dempsey
Donovan
Jermaine Jones
Jozy Altidore when he's not hurt
A younger Michael Bradley
Tim Howard
DaMarcus Beasley

The current players and depth overall is better. But not by a whole lot.
OK. I am a relative novice soccer observer. Really only watch the international tourneys. But good point, Dempsey, Beasley, Howard, Donovan, Bradley, were warriors who wore the American flag with pride and hard effort. I just am not seeing it from this new group.
 
OK. I am a relative novice soccer observer. Really only watch the international tourneys. But good point, Dempsey, Beasley, Howard, Donovan, Bradley, were warriors who wore the American flag with pride and hard effort. I just am not seeing it from this new group.
I think a good example is Westin McKinnie. He was arguably Juventus’ best player this year. But that wasn’t in a playmakers role but rather as a well rounded do lots of other things way. Like a Sydney Crosby without the point production. He’s not scaring anyone running down a flank. When we had to score the other night and he was playing out wide, he was to be respected of course but he’s striking fear into Uruguay.
 
I think a good example is Westin McKinnie. He was arguably Juventus’ best player this year. But that wasn’t in a playmakers role but rather as a well rounded do lots of other things way. Like a Sydney Crosby without the point production. He’s not scaring anyone running down a flank. When we had to score the other night and he was playing out wide, he was to be respected of course but he’s striking fear into Uruguay.

A huge problem is they dont have finishers. Who is going to score goals besides Pulisic. Maybe that's Balogun going forward. A guy like Weah has had a much better International career than Jozy Altidore but I'm taking Jozy in his prime, no doubt. Different positions I know but that team trotted out 3 goal scorers: Jozy, Dempsey, Donovan. This team has better overall players but they cant score.
 
Wanted to bring this up:

Why does the grass on the permanent grass fields being used for Copa look bad? I can understand when they throw some sod overtop of the astroturf but Miami, KC, Vegas, AZ, etc...those fields all look like something out of Central America. You turn on the Euros and those pitches look pristine. I hope the USSF and FIFA are taking notes because they cant look like this in 2026. And hopefully they require New Jersey, Foxborough, and Seattle to put in permanent grass.
 
Will it cost more money to do that? (hint, yes) If so, then FIFA will have no interest.

Well, FIFA wouldn't be the ones paying for that. They should have made it contingent on accepting those stadiums just like they said they need to be 75 yards wide so a few have to take out a few rows of seats. You cant be playing a World Cup outdoors on grass you shipped in to lay over astroturf 2 weeks ago. Indoor games, ok whatever. I probably wouldn't have allowed any indoor venues unless you can roll the field in and out to allow for grass like Vegas and KC.
 
That's.....not the best list
Only way to get Klopp is to make an offer he can’t refuse. Does US soccer have the ability to do that? Doubtful. This is why the Derp out mafia shouldn’t expect anything more than just another Derp. But hey a change for changes sake can’t be much worse can it?
 
Only way to get Klopp is to make an offer he can’t refuse. Does US soccer have the ability to do that? Doubtful. This is why the Derp out mafia shouldn’t expect anything more than just another Derp. But hey a change for changes sake can’t be much worse can it?

Apparently it is true that they have to pay the women's coach the same. Fox Soccer discussed this in good detail and said that really limits who they can get. Even said they did this to themselves. Said maybe they can hire someone in December 2025 or January 2026 for a 6 month job so they wont have to pay as much.

Good Lord is this federation a bunch of morons. Players, fine, whatever, pay them the same. But a coach??? Even the most liberal universities dont pay their men's and women's teams the same because those salaries are determined by the free market. But US Soccer is apparently more liberal than the Ivy League.
 
Apparently it is true that they have to pay the women's coach the same. Fox Soccer discussed this in good detail and said that really limits who they can get. Even said they did this to themselves. Said maybe they can hire someone in December 2025 or January 2026 for a 6 month job so they wont have to pay as much.

Good Lord is this federation a bunch of morons. Players, fine, whatever, pay them the same. But a coach??? Even the most liberal universities dont pay their men's and women's teams the same because those salaries are determined by the free market. But US Soccer is apparently more liberal than the Ivy League.
Yeah they are really good at decking out their stadiums and uniforms in rainbows.
 
The last 2 interim gaffers have been superior to derp. Dave Sarachan and BJ Callahan are heads and shoulders above this chooch. Sarachan wasn't afraid to play all the young kids and let them try to mesh. Callahan, the same, just let them play and appeared to have a little more aggressive and forward type of play.

I really thing this idiot in charge has no clue what he is trying to accomplish. He appears to have no set style, has horrible gametime decisions and has no feel for the game or room.

Yet, because he is connected, we have him. And this moron Matt Crocker. Yeah, USSF, great decision bringing in this guy from a club that seriously flirted with relegation for about 4 straight seasons before finally being sent down.

I'm still a big fan of some type of partnership in the higher echelons of USSF having Hope Solo and Eric Wynalda involved. Batshit crazy, yeah probably, but these 2 I think have US Soccer's best interest at heart.
 
That's.....not the best list
Out of that list, taking Kloppy out of it, Cherundolo is probably the best choice. These rest are so bleh. I mean Gareth Southgate??? This dude is Derp 2.0. For me, also Scott Parker 2.0 which is not a good comparison. Parker will have Burnley flirting with positions 4-10 all season long in the EFL Championship. Bad move by JJ Watt & Co.
 
The last 2 interim gaffers have been superior to derp. Dave Sarachan and BJ Callahan are heads and shoulders above this chooch. Sarachan wasn't afraid to play all the young kids and let them try to mesh. Callahan, the same, just let them play and appeared to have a little more aggressive and forward type of play.

I really thing this idiot in charge has no clue what he is trying to accomplish. He appears to have no set style, has horrible gametime decisions and has no feel for the game or room.

Yet, because he is connected, we have him. And this moron Matt Crocker. Yeah, USSF, great decision bringing in this guy from a club that seriously flirted with relegation for about 4 straight seasons before finally being sent down.

I'm still a big fan of some type of partnership in the higher echelons of USSF having Hope Solo and Eric Wynalda involved. Batshit crazy, yeah probably, but these 2 I think have US Soccer's best interest at heart.

I love Wynalda. He's crazy, yes, but in a good way. We need that. Remember he took that amateur team to the US Open Cup semis (or maybe it was the quarters)? Not saying he should be the coach but he has to have some role in leadership.
 
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Apparently it is true that they have to pay the women's coach the same. Fox Soccer discussed this in good detail and said that really limits who they can get. Even said they did this to themselves. Said maybe they can hire someone in December 2025 or January 2026 for a 6 month job so they wont have to pay as much.

Good Lord is this federation a bunch of morons. Players, fine, whatever, pay them the same. But a coach??? Even the most liberal universities dont pay their men's and women's teams the same because those salaries are determined by the free market. But US Soccer is apparently more liberal than the Ivy League.
Well.......I would guess the breakdown of soccer fans are 70 blue/20 purple/10 red.
 
Apparently it is true that they have to pay the women's coach the same. Fox Soccer discussed this in good detail and said that really limits who they can get.
It's the same PC nonsense that forces the Dumbocrat Party to take Kamala if Biden where to drop out, because it would be offensive, like "Why? isn't the BLACK WOMAN as good as anyone else?" :)
 
Apparently it is true that they have to pay the women's coach the same. Fox Soccer discussed this in good detail and said that really limits who they can get.


Oddly enough, one of Fox Sports leading soccer people says that it is absolutely not true that they are required to pay the women's coach the same amount as the men's coach.

It's as if people can't understand the difference between "we pay both coaches the same today" and "we must pay the coaches the same for the rest of time".

The CBA that the men and the women players signed actually says nothing at all in it about coach's salaries.

Imagine that.
 
I think a good example is Westin McKinnie. He was arguably Juventus’ best player this year. But that wasn’t in a playmakers role but rather as a well rounded do lots of other things way. Like a Sydney Crosby without the point production. He’s not scaring anyone running down a flank. When we had to score the other night and he was playing out wide, he was to be respected of course but he’s striking fear into Uruguay.

McKennie won't play at Juve this season. The new coach doesn't want him. He is rumored to be moving to FC Cincinnati because of course he is. Wished these American players could find roles on mid to lower EPL teams like when they all played for Leeds. That was fun. But it did get them relegated sooo.
 
McKennie won't play at Juve this season. The new coach doesn't want him. He is rumored to be moving to FC Cincinnati because of course he is. Wished these American players could find roles on mid to lower EPL teams like when they all played for Leeds. That was fun. But it did get them relegated sooo.
Jose Mourinho wants him at Fenerbahçe. He was linke earlier with Villa and still some rumblings with Spurs. He wont be in MLS.
 

Oh man, dont get my hopes up.

I realize club football/Champions League is the dream for most managers but some also want the experience of coaching a World Cup. This is the perfect job. No qualifying. Just a 2 year job then you are back in Europe.

I read that the USSF would have to get outside sponsors and donors to pay most of the salary of an expensive coach though to get around having to pay the women's coach the same. Somewhat similar to college player salaries having to be paid by fans and not directly by the school. Not sure how it would work but NIL seems to be the blueprint to skirt the rules. Maybe like Chevrolet pays him a few million per year and in return he does a few commercials, shows up at some corporate events. The market value of the US coach isnt much so this would be WAY over market value but in return, Chevrolet gets their name out there as a US Soccer sponsor.
 
It's as if people can't understand the difference between "we pay both coaches the same today" and "we must pay the coaches the same for the rest of time".

Case in point:
I read that the USSF would have to get outside sponsors and donors to pay most of the salary of an expensive coach though to get around having to pay the women's coach the same.
 
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