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OT: Gerrit Cole

Those are bench players. Just like NH to add in the margins like bench and bullpen, but the rotation? Starting1B? Starting 2B? Who cares about that.

Walker, by the way, is at 3.3 WAR while Harrison is at 0.6 WAR.
 
Those are bench players. Just like NH to add in the margins like bench and bullpen, but the rotation? Starting1B? Starting 2B? Who cares about that.

Walker, by the way, is at 3.3 WAR while Harrison is at 0.6 WAR.

ANOTHER foolish post. So production from bench players shouldn't count??????? So NH gets no credit for that??? You continue to see only one side like a true yinzer.

Stop it, just stop it!

As for your statistics I'll give it the same respect you give Pittbaseball. None....
 
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ANOTHER foolish post. So production from bench players shouldn't count??????? So NH gets no credit for that??? You continue to see only one side like a true yinzer.

Stop it, just stop it!

As for your statistics I'll give it the same respect you give Pittbaseball. None....

Do you think bench players are anywhere near as important as everyday players and starting pitchers? Really?
 
Do you think bench players are anywhere near as important as everyday players and starting pitchers? Really?

No, that would be McCutchen, Kang, Liriano, Cole, Cervelli... And guess what they ain't producing so we have to rely on these bench players to keep us competitive!!! Get it?

As I said you are a typical yinzer… You look at half the facts and pass it off as gospel…

I have a secret for you…. NH has kept the Pirates competitive! He is the reason the Pirates have been able to break a 20 year losing drought! Yes, that’s right. You’re too thickheaded to realize it…

Let me tell you how it works…. See, NH gets a budget to work with. He doesn’t decide how much he can spend. Nutting decides that! So NH gets a certain amount of money to field a competitive team. Do you follow so far? His margin of error is small…

With the amount of money allotted to him he has acquired the following players for practically nothing:

Joel Hanrahan – All Star (Via Trade)

Jason Grilli – All Star (FA)

Mark Melancon – All Star (Via Trade)

Edison Volquez – 14 game winner (FA)

Francisco Liriano – (FA)

AJ Burnett – All Star (Via Trade)

Russell Martin – All Star (FA)

J.A. Happ – (Via Trade)

Francisco Cervelli – (Via Trade)

David Freese (FA)

Sean Rodriguez (FA)

Matt Joyce (FA)

Chris Stewart (FA)

If Ivan Nova pitches anything near what he pitched the other night, it will be a huge win.

Now, NH DOESN’T SIGN THESE PLAYERS! HE DOESN’T DECIDE WHAT TO PAY WOULD BE FREE AGENTS. THAT IS UP TO NUTTING! Get it?????? No budget from Nutting, no can sign… Get it????

NH is the best asset the Pirates have! He takes a small budget and puts a competitive team on the field. Is he perfect? No! It’s impossible. He gambled on the staff and lost. He spent the money on other players.

But once AGAIN you will not acknowledge any of this and continue to rip NH. Nutting is fair game. But not NH.
 
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Holy shit, I've seen it all. Neal Huntington is the best asset the Pirates have. Not the guy who won MVP, not the guy who finished top four in Cy Young, but the GM who put together teams that haven't won a division or a playoff series. A guy who thought it was a great plan to trade Neil Walker for Jon Niese and install Josh Harrison in at 2B. A guy who has kept Jeff Locke in the rotation for 3+ years. A guy who traded Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz. Robinzon Diaz! Yes, he's the best asset this team has.

I can't even believe anyone would actually think this, let alone defend it. That is literally one of the most absurd things I've ever read. If the guy wasn't gift wrapped Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, and Starting Marte, he'd damn sure never would've seen the playoffs, and there's a chance he wouldn't be here today.
 
Holy shit, I've seen it all. Neal Huntington is the best asset the Pirates have. Not the guy who won MVP, not the guy who finished top four in Cy Young, but the GM who put together teams that haven't won a division or a playoff series. A guy who thought it was a great plan to trade Neil Walker for Jon Niese and install Josh Harrison in at 2B. A guy who has kept Jeff Locke in the rotation for 3+ years. A guy who traded Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz. Robinzon Diaz! Yes, he's the best asset this team has.

I can't even believe anyone would actually think this, let alone defend it. That is literally one of the most absurd things I've ever read. If the guy wasn't gift wrapped Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, and Starting Marte, he'd damn sure never would've seen the playoffs, and there's a chance he wouldn't be here today.

I'm sorry dude, but you are an absolute dumbarse when it comes to the Pirates. Just shut up.
 
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He traded Jason Bay for a bag of baseballs. Jose Bautista for a AAA backup catcher. Xavier Nady for negative value. Neil Walker for the worst SP in baseball. Mark Melancon for a 7th inning reliever (at a time when top RP were getting top 25 prospects and more). He traded for Aki Iwamura to block Neil Walker. He traded an all star CF for two bad SP and a no hit OF. He wasted a ton of his allocated cash on scrubs like Corey Hart, Erik Bedard, Kevin Correia, John Jaso, Clint Barmes, Rod Barajas, Casey McGehee, Lyle Overbay, Jose Tabata, Charlie Morton, Josh Harrison, and on and on and on. He drafted Tony Sanchez fourth overall, his drafts, despite drafting in the top 10 for over half of his tenure, have produced very little in terms of MLB talent compared to other teams around baseball.

Hitting on a couple (out of about 50 over the past 8 years) dumpster dive one year contracts isn't a way to build long term success or get you over the top.
 
I'm sorry dude, but you are an absolute dumbarse when it comes to the Pirates. Just shut up.

You're the dumbass who started a thread about trading Gerrit Cole because of a couple of bad starts. Excuse me if I think as highly of your opinions on baseball as I do of the careers of Andy LaRoche, Craig Hansen, Bryan Morris, Jose Tabata, Daniel McCutchen, Ross Ohlendorf, Aki Iwamura, Robinzon Diaz, Jon Niese, Tony Sanchez, and Felipe Rivero.
 
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Holy shit, I've seen it all. Neal Huntington is the best asset the Pirates have. Not the guy who won MVP, not the guy who finished top four in Cy Young, but the GM who put together teams that haven't won a division or a playoff series. A guy who thought it was a great plan to trade Neil Walker for Jon Niese and install Josh Harrison in at 2B. A guy who has kept Jeff Locke in the rotation for 3+ years. A guy who traded Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz. Robinzon Diaz! Yes, he's the best asset this team has.

I can't even believe anyone would actually think this, let alone defend it. That is literally one of the most absurd things I've ever read. If the guy wasn't gift wrapped Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, and Starting Marte, he'd damn sure never would've seen the playoffs, and there's a chance he wouldn't be here today.


HAHA! So it is players that win games and NOT Nutting and Hunnington!!!! LOL! You stepped right into it like a true yinzer!!!!!

LOLOLOLOL!
 
You're the dumbass who started a thread about trading Gerrit Cole because of a couple of bad starts. Excuse me if I think as highly of your opinions on baseball as I do of the careers of Andy LaRoche, Craig Hansen, Bryan Morris, Jose Tabata, Daniel McCutchen, Ross Ohlendorf, Aki Iwamura, Robinzon Diaz, Jon Niese, Tony Sanchez, and Felipe Rivero.

We win the argument yinzer!!!!! You just made our point! PLAYERS WIN AND LOSE GAMES.

So when the Pirates win, it's the players, but when they lose, it's NH! I get it!

No, you're the dumbass! LOL!
 
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We win the argument yinzer!!!!! You just made our point! PLAYERS WIN AND LOSE GAMES.

So when the Pirates win, it's the players, but when they lose, it's NH! I get it!

No, you're the dumbass! LOL!

The players win the games, it's NH's job to get good players. If you think a rotation that included Niese, Locke, and Nicasio is good, then you'll defend Neal Huntington to the end of time. Hell, it's obvious you're a front office fan and think NEAL can do no wrong.

If the GM provided better players, the players would win more. Just because a GM puts 25 guys on the roster doesn't mean those 25 are all good.

Are you really this dense, or are you being intentionally dumb and dishonest?
 
Nice win last night. Hope Cutch gets hot and stays hot. Let's go Bucs!

Cutch has hit .303/.425/.485 (.910 OPS, 151 wRC+) with 3 HR, 14 BB, 13 K, and 3 SB in August.

Just for reference, Neal Huntington fans have used a shorter period of time to determine Gerrit Cole isn't good enough for them. None of the Neal Huntington fans will see how stupid they are for these assessments.
 
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The players win the games, it's NH's job to get good players. If you think a rotation that included Niese, Locke, and Nicasio is good, then you'll defend Neal Huntington to the end of time. Hell, it's obvious you're a front office fan and think NEAL can do no wrong.

If the GM provided better players, the players would win more. Just because a GM puts 25 guys on the roster doesn't mean those 25 are all good.

Are you really this dense, or are you being intentionally dumb and dishonest?

Give it up. You lost the argument!

You admitted players win and lose games. Case closed...
 
Give it up. You lost the argument!

You admitted players win and lose games. Case closed...

I still can't tell if you're dense or dishonest.

You do realize Neal Huntington put a team together with Jon Niese, Jeff Locke, and Juan Nicasio in the rotation for over half the year, right? And John Jaso at 1B/Josh Harrison at 2B.

These aren't good players. Is it Cutch's fault the GM put a bad starting rotation together? That they have 2 of the worst regulars at their position of 1B and 2B?

That's entirely in the GM. I have a hard time blaming John Jaso for not being good, he's just not good, and never should've been the starting 1B. I have a hard time blaming Josh Harrison for being bad, he's been bad every year except one in his career. I do blame the GM for trading a far superior player for an awful SP and putting Harrison in a position to be the starting 2B.

So, are you dense or dishonest, please tell me.
 
I still can't tell if you're dense or dishonest.

You do realize Neal Huntington put a team together with Jon Niese, Jeff Locke, and Juan Nicasio in the rotation for over half the year, right? And John Jaso at 1B/Josh Harrison at 2B.

These aren't good players. Is it Cutch's fault the GM put a bad starting rotation together? That they have 2 of the worst regulars at their position of 1B and 2B?

That's entirely in the GM. I have a hard time blaming John Jaso for not being good, he's just not good, and never should've been the starting 1B. I have a hard time blaming Josh Harrison for being bad, he's been bad every year except one in his career. I do blame the GM for trading a far superior player for an awful SP and putting Harrison in a position to be the starting 2B.

So, are you dense or dishonest, please tell me.

Are you ever going to address how cutch, liriano, Cole, cervelli, and kang underperforming for much of the year impacted the Pirates? Sure, the rotation wasn't very good, but the Pirates still hovered around .500. Adding one more decent starter gets you 3 more wins maybe.

You're also playing the results on Jaso. It would have been reasonable to expect a .750-.800 OPS from the guy based on his career numbers. He has significantly underperformed.

Now, if the guys I mentioned above perform up to what they did just last year, how many more wins do you think the Pirates have? Can you answer the question because I have said multiple times the rotation going into the year stunk and was a mistake.
 
I'm going to do the same thing you do. I'm going to ignore your points and repeat the same thing over and over...

You want it both ways. You want to blame NH when they lose but give him no credit when they win.

You're not dense, you're dishonest...

PLAYERS WIN AND LOSE GAMES. The star players have not played as well as they did last year which is why the Piares are hovering around .500

I see Cutch had a good game last night. Does Hunnington get credit for that or Cutch....

You lose the argument...
 
Anyone who thinks the owner and his employees are trying to win a championship, know nothing about baseball and also should shut the hell up! Pirates suck by design, cheap as hell, never will go for it, always will be next year and you all are sheep. Easy to part fools from their money, and Nutting has that on lock down
 
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Are you ever going to address how cutch, liriano, Cole, cervelli, and kang underperforming for much of the year impacted the Pirates? Sure, the rotation wasn't very good, but the Pirates still hovered around .500. Adding one more decent starter gets you 3 more wins maybe.

Now, if the guys I mentioned above perform up to what they did just last year, how many more wins do you think the Pirates have? Can you answer the question because I have said multiple times the rotation going into the year stunk and was a mistake.

Having 60% of the rotation being among the worst 10 SP in baseball, and knowing that they were before the season even started, has had a much bigger impact on this team. Combine that with Jaso at 1B and Harrison at 2B, and that is the reason they are hovering just above .500 now. Some players underperform (Cutch, Liriano) and over perform (Polanco, Mercer) over the course of the season, and some get injured (Cervelli, Kang). That's baseball. But to go into the season with 60% of the rotation an unmitigated disaster, and have zero's at 1B and 2B? That is the real issue.

Jung-Ho Kang was coming off a major injury, and still has a 117 wRC+ on the year.

Francisco Cervelli has a higher OBP this year than he did last year. His power is down, probably because last year was a bit flukey in terms of SLG for him. The two other years he had more than 200 PA in the majors, his SLG was .335 and .316, it's .313 this year.

Until the last three starts, Gerrit Cole had a 2.94 ERA, at the All Star Break, he had a 2.77 ERA. He has a higher WAR this year than he had in 2014. His FIP is 3.16 right now. I mean, I know everyone thinks he should go 7 innings and give up 2 runs or less every outing, but that isn't realistic for any SP in baseball.
 
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I'm going to do the same thing you do. I'm going to ignore your points and repeat the same thing over and over...

You want it both ways. You want to blame NH when they lose but give him no credit when they win.

You're not dense, you're dishonest...

PLAYERS WIN AND LOSE GAMES. The star players have not played as well as they did last year which is why the Piares are hovering around .500

I see Cutch had a good game last night. Does Hunnington get credit for that or Cutch....

You lose the argument...

You must believe that Neal Huntington did his job because there are 25 players on the roster. Hey, who cares if 60% of the rotation on Opening Day was guaranteed to suck, the players WIN and LOSE the games! It's not NEAL's fault that Niese, Locke, and Nicasio suck, all he did was make it so they are in the rotation, he did his job!

I hope you take off the cheerleading outfit with NH on the vest before you go out in public.

And Huntington gets no credit for Cutch, Dave Littlefield gift wrapped him to Neal, just like Walker and Marte. We saw what NH got for Walker, can't wait to see how little he gets for Cutch.
 
Anyone who thinks the owner and his employees are trying to win a championship, know nothing about baseball and also should shut the hell up! Pirates suck by design, cheap as hell, never will go for it, always will be next year and you all are sheep. Easy to part fools from their money, and Nutting has that on lock down

Nutting is a different subject. Criticism is legit, not NH.
 
You must believe that Neal Huntington did his job because there are 25 players on the roster. Hey, who cares if 60% of the rotation on Opening Day was guaranteed to suck, the players WIN and LOSE the games! It's not NEAL's fault that Niese, Locke, and Nicasio suck, all he did was make it so they are in the rotation, he did his job!

I hope you take off the cheerleading outfit with NH on the vest before you go out in public.

And Huntington gets no credit for Cutch, Dave Littlefield gift wrapped him to Neal, just like Walker and Marte. We saw what NH got for Walker, can't wait to see how little he gets for Cutch.

You admitted that players win and lose games. That is the point of this thread. Case closed...
 
You admitted that players win and lose games. That is the point of this thread. Case closed...

Still looking for you to clarify... dense or dishonest?

Neal did his job, he put 25 guys on the roster! Jaso was the 1B for over four montgs, but that isn't NEAL's fault, Neal only put the roster together.

Harrison is still the starting 2B. Not NEAL's fault, his only job is to make sure there are 25 names on the roster.

Niese, Locke, Nicasio? Not Neal's fault, he merely put together a starting rotation with those three in it.

Again, please tell me, are you dense or dishonest?
 
Still looking for you to clarify... dense or dishonest?

Neal did his job, he put 25 guys on the roster! Jaso was the 1B for over four montgs, but that isn't NEAL's fault, Neal only put the roster together.

Harrison is still the starting 2B. Not NEAL's fault, his only job is to make sure there are 25 names on the roster.

Niese, Locke, Nicasio? Not Neal's fault, he merely put together a starting rotation with those three in it.

Again, please tell me, are you dense or dishonest?

You have no credibility when you blame the the GM when a team loses but none when they win...

Case closed...
 
You have no credibility when you blame the the GM when a team loses but none when they win...

Case closed...

What have they won?

Division titles?
Playoff series?
Pennants?
World Series?

There are 11 current GMs that have been around for over 2 years now. Neal Huntington, Rick Hahn (CWS), and Jeff Luhnow (HOU) are the only three of those 11 to not win at least a division or playoff series.

Duquette (Baltimore) - division & playoff series wins
Hoyer (Cubs) - playoff series win, will win division this year
Moore (KC) - division win, playoff series wins, pennant wins, World Series win
Alderson (Mets) - division win, series wins, pennant
Cashman (Yankees) - divisions, series, pennants, world series wins
Mozeliak (Cardinals) - divisions, series, pennants, world series
Daniels (Rangers) - divisions, series, pennant
Rizzo (Nationals) - divisions

That's why it's easy to laugh at people that try to claim NH is one of the best GMs in baseball. The guy hasn't built a team that has won anything, mostly because he screws around the margins and won't go for it.
 
LOL! You're getting dumber by the minute. You don't get it do you?

1. NH gets a budget.

2. He creates the roster with that budget he gets.

4. The teams you cited have bigger payrolls. KC's owner FINALLY spends some cash. Therefore Moore was allowed to obtain Cueto. Who incidentally did nothing down the stretch and in the playoffs.

3. NH is not perfect. You obviously are, and like a true yinzer can do a much better job! Right?

4. Inspite of a tight payroll, NH has kept the Pirates in contention.

5. Any GM with a huge payroll can win. He can make mistake after mistake and make up for it by signing the next blockbuster FA.

There is more than enough talent on this team to get a wild card slot. They have struggled this year because the star players have not played like stars.

PLAYERS WIN OR LOSE GAMES. You admitted it yourself...

Case closed....
 
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LOL! You're getting dumber by the minute. You don't get it do you?

1. NH gets a budget.

2. He creates the roster with that budget he gets.

4. The teams you cited have bigger payrolls. KC's owner FINALLY spends some cash. Therefore Moore was allowed to obtain Cueto. Who incidentally did nothing down the stretch and in the playoffs.

3. NH is not perfect. You obviously are, and like a true yinzer can do a much better job! Right?

4. Inspite of a tight payroll, NH has kept the Pirates in contention.

5. Any GM with a huge payroll can win. He can make mistake after mistake and make up for it by signing the next blockbuster FA.

There is more than enough talent on this team to get a wild card slot. They have struggled this year because the star players have not played like stars.

PLAYERS WIN OR LOSE GAMES. You admitted it yourself...

Case closed....

NH wastes a ton of cash each year of his budget, so that doesn't hold a ton of weight with me.

Jon Niese, $10m? John Jaso, Josh Harrison, Jeff Locke, Juan Nicasio, etc. That's over $20m (almost 25% of the total) of wasted cash. Nutting gets blame, but the GM doesn't spend it particularly well.

Johnny Cueto was brilliant in game 5 against the Astros as the Royals won that deciding game. He also pitched a complete game 2 hitter in the World Series.

This team has struggled much more because of the joke NH has put out there in the rotation and at 1B and 2B, and his steadfast refusal to call up Taillon until June and Bell until August (for more than a couple pinch hit at bats).

Those guys should have been up in late April when the service time dictated they wouldn't be granted a full year of service.

It wasn't Cutch or Cole or Kang that decided it would be a good idea to go four months with Niese, Locke, and Nicasio in the rotation, as well as longer with Jaso at 1B and Harrison at 2B. There is nothing those guys can do to overcome the ineptitude if the GM for putting the team in that position.
 
NH wastes a ton of cash each year of his budget, so that doesn't hold a ton of weight with me.

Jon Niese, $10m? John Jaso, Josh Harrison, Jeff Locke, Juan Nicasio, etc. That's over $20m (almost 25% of the total) of wasted cash. Nutting gets blame, but the GM doesn't spend it particularly well.

Johnny Cueto was brilliant in game 5 against the Astros as the Royals won that deciding game. He also pitched a complete game 2 hitter in the World Series.

This team has struggled much more because of the joke NH has put out there in the rotation and at 1B and 2B, and his steadfast refusal to call up Taillon until June and Bell until August (for more than a couple pinch hit at bats).

Those guys should have been up in late April when the service time dictated they wouldn't be granted a full year of service.

It wasn't Cutch or Cole or Kang that decided it would be a good idea to go four months with Niese, Locke, and Nicasio in the rotation, as well as longer with Jaso at 1B and Harrison at 2B. There is nothing those guys can do to overcome the ineptitude if the GM for putting the team in that position.


Yawn.... Players win and lose games. There is enough talent on this team to win a wild card spot. The reason the team has struggled is because the star players haven't been playing like stars.

Was it McCuthen or Hunnington that was the star player last night? If you say McCutchen, it means you believe that star players make a difference between winning and losing. No McCutchen and we lose 2-0.

Players win and lose games...
 
Yawn.... Players win and lose games. There is enough talent on this team to win a wild card spot. The reason the team has struggled is because the star players haven't been playing like stars.

Was it McCuthen or Hunnington that was the star player last night? If you say McCutchen, it means you believe that star players make a difference between winning and losing. No McCutchen and we lose 2-0.

Players win and lose games...

Players win games but you need the GM to put good players on the team. The GM didn't do that.

And if winning the wild card is your goal, that explains a ton. Getting to the Clint Hurdle Invitational is not a measure of success. Try winning a division, a playoff series, a pennant, a World Series.

But, we will just blame it on Cutch because obviously it was his decision to put Niese, Locke, and Nicasio in the rotation.

The lack of success thus season has everything to do with those three jokers in the rotation for four months, along with Jaso at 1B and Harrison at 2B. That is 60% of the rotation and 25% of the lineup that was pure garbage.

But hey, find a scapegoat, god forbid you hold NEAL! accountable for the shit he put in the rotation and for the crap at 1B & 2B.
 
Paul Hackett shouldn't have been fired, it was the players who lost all those games.

Same with Majors II and Wannestedt.
 
Players win games but you need the GM to put good players on the team. The GM didn't do that.

And if winning the wild card is your goal, that explains a ton. Getting to the Clint Hurdle Invitational is not a measure of success. Try winning a division, a playoff series, a pennant, a World Series.

But, we will just blame it on Cutch because obviously it was his decision to put Niese, Locke, and Nicasio in the rotation.

The lack of success thus season has everything to do with those three jokers in the rotation for four months, along with Jaso at 1B and Harrison at 2B. That is 60% of the rotation and 25% of the lineup that was pure garbage.

But hey, find a scapegoat, god forbid you hold NEAL! accountable for the shit he put in the rotation and for the crap at 1B & 2B.


Your rant is tiresome and uniformed. There is enough talent on the team to get at least a wild card IF players like Kang, McCutchen, Cole and Liriano and until lately, Cervalli would have played better than they had shown so far this year. GM's are not perfect. Of course, you could have done much better...Under the circumstances NH had performed well overall with the small budget he has to work with. I look at the ENTIRE picture. I don't pick and choose to fit a narrative.

Also, NH has replaced Locke, Niese and Nicasio with Nova, Kuhl and Taillon, a big improvement.

Sorry, but if McCutchen goes 0-22, it's on him, NOT NH. If he goes 22-22, that is on McCutchen, not NH.
 
Your rant is tiresome and uniformed. There is enough talent on the team to get at least a wild card IF players like Kang, McCutchen, Cole and Liriano and until lately, Cervalli would have played better than they had shown so far this year. GM's are not perfect. Of course, you could have done much better...Under the circumstances NH had performed well overall with the small budget he has to work with. I look at the ENTIRE picture. I don't pick and choose to fit a narrative.

Also, NH has replaced Locke, Niese and Nicasio with Nova, Kuhl and Taillon, a big improvement.

Sorry, but if McCutchen goes 0-22, it's on him, NOT NH. If he goes 22-22, that is on McCutchen, not NH.

Keep blaming the players for four months of ineptitude from the front office.

Kang is doing just as well as last year.

Cervelli has a higher OBP from last year, his SLG was a fluke for him last year.

Cole had been good but for the past three starts. If you're going to say he's been bad based only on August, then he'll, Cutch is doing fine because his August numbers have been terrific.

The issue is four months of Niese, Locke, and Nicasio. Taillon and Kuhl should've been up long ago.

Harrison - awful. Jaso - awful. But yeah, that is Cutch's fault.

This town idiotic obsession with blaming stars shoes how dumb the yinzers are. Always the fault if Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Cutch, Cole, Ben.

Tell me again, cause I can't remember, are you dense or dishonest?
 
It's very strange to me that somebody who is staunchly against blaming players is placing the blame squarely on 3 players who haven't been in the rotation for this full year, who were all better than a conspicuously unnamed "high-end" free agent who was total garbage all year, and who were really only in the rotation for as long as they were due to injuries (to both minor leaguers and major leaguers).

Also, anybody suggesting Taillon SHOULDN'T have been babied along after missing 2 full years loses all credibility (which, in this case, is admittedly not much) when it comes to criticizing decisionmaking. Look no further than guys like Dylan Bundy, Steven Matz (especially him, as he also missed 2 years in a row), Hunter Harvey, etc.. You don't mess around with guys who miss prolonged periods of time by immediately putting high stress pitches and innings back on their arm. It's irresponsible and reckless. Sorry, "winning this year" isn't more important than that guy being able to make an impact for each of the following six years. I don't even have an issue with the Pirates giving him a phantom DL stint around the All-Star break and pulling him after only ~85 pitches at the MLB level this year. You can't jeopardize his health and future, he's too important.
 
It's very strange to me that somebody who is staunchly against blaming players is placing the blame squarely on 3 players who haven't been in the rotation for this full year, who were all better than a conspicuously unnamed "high-end" free agent who was total garbage all year, and who were really only in the rotation for as long as they were due to injuries (to both minor leaguers and major leaguers).

Also, anybody suggesting Taillon SHOULDN'T have been babied along after missing 2 full years loses all credibility (which, in this case, is admittedly not much) when it comes to criticizing decisionmaking. Look no further than guys like Dylan Bundy, Steven Matz (especially him, as he also missed 2 years in a row), Hunter Harvey, etc.. You don't mess around with guys who miss prolonged periods of time by immediately putting high stress pitches and innings back on their arm. It's irresponsible and reckless. Sorry, "winning this year" isn't more important than that guy being able to make an impact for each of the following six years. I don't even have an issue with the Pirates giving him a phantom DL stint around the All-Star break and pulling him after only ~85 pitches at the MLB level this year. You can't jeopardize his health and future, he's too important.

BINGO! He's too stupid to realize that he steps into every time talking out of both sides of his mouth. He makes absolutely no sense.
 
I don't know where to begin with this idiocy you call a post...You know less about baseball than you do football....

Keep blaming the players for four months of ineptitude from the front office. The front office does not play in games. The stars that they pay do. There is enough talent on the team to win games IF the star players played like stars

Kang is doing just as well as last year. - LOL! WHAT?! His batting average is down 44 points from last year!

Cervelli has a higher OBP from last year, his SLG was a fluke for him last year. - Is he playing better than last year? NO.

Cole had been good but for the past three starts. If you're going to say he's been bad based only on August, then he'll, Cutch is doing fine because his August numbers have been terrific. Huh? Cutch has played bad all year. Cole is not elite. He is a good pitcher that has not won a big game yet. That's the point you keep missing by spending your time attacking NH.

The issue is four months of Niese, Locke, and Nicasio. Taillon and Kuhl should've been up long ago. So Locke, Niese and and Nicasio has spent less than a half a season, yet they are to blame for the Pirates hovering around .500???

Harrison - awful. Jaso - awful. But yeah, that is Cutch's fault. - Cutch is a superstar player, the others are not. Dumb.

This town idiotic obsession with blaming stars shoes how dumb the yinzers are. Always the fault if Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Cutch, Cole, Ben. Yes, because they are paid to play big in big games. Another dumb remark.

Tell me again, cause I can't remember, are you dense or dishonest?

Tell me again, cause I can't remember, are you dense or dishonest? - You are.

Unbelievable. Quit embarrassing yourself...
 
BINGO! He's too stupid to realize that he steps into every time talking out of both sides of his mouth. He makes absolutely no sense.

It's just strange to me because all of the national sites were more or less saying that this was what the plan was all during the offseason (and that it was a logical plan), yet it's like this huge shock in Pittsburgh that they did it.

I don't know if it's just an echo chamber effect or a lack of information or what, but pretty much everything the Pirates did you had national sites predicting (and supporting) way before they did it. I tend to lean towards more of a lack of information leading to an echo chamber.

Like, saying last year's team was a 98 win team is true in the sense that they won 98 games, but teams aren't concerned with that. What they care about is the underlying talent of that team once you strip away cluster luck. Essentially, the standings are performance plus variance -- teams care just about performance.

And, unfortunately, I just don't think the Pittsburgh media is good at informing people of that. They aren't particularly good at informing people of anything sports related -- it's all hot takes and opinions.

For all of the "how could they waste one of Cutch and Kang's prime years!!1!1!!" complaints, Cutch and Kang have done a pretty solid job of wasting them themselves.

That's not to say those guys are cooked, more just an illustration of why teams don't care about one year at a time.
 
It's just strange to me because all of the national sites were more or less saying that this was what the plan was all during the offseason (and that it was a logical plan), yet it's like this huge shock in Pittsburgh that they did it.

I don't know if it's just an echo chamber effect or a lack of information or what, but pretty much everything the Pirates did you had national sites predicting (and supporting) way before they did it. I tend to lean towards more of a lack of information leading to an echo chamber.

Like, saying last year's team was a 98 win team is true in the sense that they won 98 games, but teams aren't concerned with that. What they care about is the underlying talent of that team once you strip away cluster luck. Essentially, the standings are performance plus variance -- teams care just about performance.

And, unfortunately, I just don't think the Pittsburgh media is good at informing people of that. They aren't particularly good at informing people of anything sports related -- it's all hot takes and opinions.

For all of the "how could they waste one of Cutch and Kang's prime years!!1!1!!" complaints, Cutch and Kang have done a pretty solid job of wasting them themselves.

That's not to say those guys are cooked, more just an illustration of why teams don't care about one year at a time.

That the plan was to take a 98 win team and let it tank by 15+ wins for any reason is enough to question whether the front office is competent. Teams that care about winning, and are competently run, don't do shit like this.

You sticking with your entire 'Neil Walker us a 2 WAR player theory'? That's worked out quite well for you.

The past 10 months have been a disaster by the front office, and Taillon and Bell make them look stupider by the day.

The fact that you think Taillon throwing pitches in AAA instead of MLB makes him any less susceptible to injury just shows how foolish you are (as if your defense of Walker trade, defense of the rotation as constructed the first four months, and playoffs being random declarations weren't foolish enough on their own).
 
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That the plan was to take a 98 win team and let it tank by 15+ wins for any reason is enough to question whether the front office is competent. Teams that care about winning, and are competently run, don't do shit like this.

You sticking with your entire 'Neil Walker us a 2 WAR player theory'? That's worked out quite well for you.

The past 10 months have been a disaster by the front office, and Taillon and Bell make them look stupider by the day.

The fact that you think Taillon throwing pitches in AAA instead of MLB makes him any less susceptible to injury just shows how foolish you are (as if your defense of Walker trade, defense of the rotation as constructed the first four months, and playoffs being random declarations weren't foolish enough on their own).


Question: Who leads the staff in wins this year?
Answer: Nicasio (9) Locke (8) Niese (8)

Question: Who leads the staff in loses?
Answer: Liriano (11), Cole (9)

What are the ERA's of the players that NH has acquired at the deadline?
Answer: Rivero 0.75, Nova 3.22

Hmmmmmmm... LOL!!!!!!!!
 
Where you know that posters like mvk are disingenuous is when they dismiss winning 98 games last year, citing the pirates record against the Reds and Brewers. Of course they ignore going 5-2 against the Dodgers or 7-0 against the Mets in the process.

What I do think the Pirates were guilty of this past off-season was believing they could again have Searage rehabilitate pitchers, like he had done several times the past few seasons.
 
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That the plan was to take a 98 win team and let it tank by 15+ wins for any reason is enough to question whether the front office is competent. Teams that care about winning, and are competently run, don't do shit like this.

You sticking with your entire 'Neil Walker us a 2 WAR player theory'? That's worked out quite well for you.

The past 10 months have been a disaster by the front office, and Taillon and Bell make them look stupider by the day.

The fact that you think Taillon throwing pitches in AAA instead of MLB makes him any less susceptible to injury just shows how foolish you are (as if your defense of Walker trade, defense of the rotation as constructed the first four months, and playoffs being random declarations weren't foolish enough on their own).

Yeah, I'm going to stick by what Neil Walker's trade value was during last offseason. Why wouldn't I? The (lack of) market spoke pretty clearly to how much value teams thought he had relative to his contract number. I still don't think he's a significantly different player than that -- any additional value he has right now is based on defense and I don't tend to trust those numbers in a single year.

I don't understand why you're so hung up on the Walker thing, regardless. Like, that's just how teams operate, that move was being predicted before the 2015 season as what would happen with him. He wasn't an extension candidate, he's not a guy who is going to get a qualifying offer, so teams are going to do what they can to not lose an asset for nothing. You don't have to like how the market behaves, but it's still the market that decisions are made in. The Pirates weren't zigging while other teams are zagging.

You can Captain Hindsight your way to whatever you want, but it's extremely disingenuous to call last year's team a 98-win team and you know it.

Last year's team was projected to win 80 games by PECOTA heading into the season (ZiPS had them at 81, as best I can tell). They got some big overachieving out of Kang and Cervelli and a great season from Cole and tossed in some good cluster luck and wound up with 98 wins.

This year's team, by contrast, was projected by PECOTA to win 83 games heading into the season (ZiPS had them at 80, although it wasn't considering prospects). This year they've seen some underperformance relative to projections from some unexpected sources, but been able to offset that with some solid cluster luck once again.

I'm really, really trying to be outraged about all of this, but I just can't. I guess the best I can do is say that I'm sorry you were so attached to 2015 and actually thought baseball teams had a ton of control over how things play out?

I'm not getting into the Taillon thing and having to explain things like stress pitches or stress innings. Like, that's just such an irrational, illogical point of view based completely on hindsight and emotions and paranoia (shocking). All of the data indicates that it's not innings/pitches that cause guys' arms to blow up, it's the effort they're throwing with. You're acting like a guy has a finite number of pitches in his arm until his elbow pops, but that's not the case. Nobody outside of the Pittsburgh sports bubble would ever argue for a guy coming off 2 lost seasons to be thrown right into the fire. That's just completely crazy.

On the bright side, you've stopped scouting the minor league stat line on Tyler Glasnow and aren't using him as a referendum on all things Pirates in every post. Hindsight just didn't break your way on that one, but chin up.

On Bell, maybe he could have been up. If you want to say they should have optioned Frazier and used Bell as a designated pinch hitter I could buy that. They have Sean Rodriguez as a super utility option so it's not like Frazier served an irreplaceable role. But, even you have to admit that he's absolutely horrible defensively. That's going off any metric you want -- eye test included. Somehow, Billy Butler looked like Casey Kotchman compared to him.
 
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