OT: Gerrit Cole

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Glasgow got hurt. I'd still rather have had him up here instead of Niese, Nicasio, and Locke.

You must not have watched Glasnow pitch any of his games with the Pirates this year. If you did and it isn't absolutely, completely obvious to you why he wasn't in the majors since the beginning of the year, and indeed why he was no where near ready for the majors when they brought him up, then you have no creditably at all in the discussion.

Wait a second...

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

seriously, I have had enough of him. Trade him in the offseason. It isn't that he is terrible...he is supposed to be our ace, and is coming up small when the Pirates need him most.

That isn't the thing that bothers me though. He needs to stop being a primadonna. From complaining about his salary this offseason, to visibly meltingdisn constantly on the mound, I'm tired of the schtick.

He could fetch a big return. Hopefully the pirate move him.

It's just one season. Give the guy a break.

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

Cole = Nice fastball; Pony-league breaking ball; No change-up.

Cole, unless someone teaches him a semi-effective second pitch, is headed to an A.J. Burnett career. He'll make a ton of money but after he's pitched in the league for 15 years he will have won about 10 more games than he lost.

Go Pitt.

How did he make the All Star team last?

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

He had 200+ K's last year and has been over 8 per 9 innings over his career.

He was top ten in ERA at under 3.00 until 3 starts ago, now he's around 3.50 or so.

The yinzers who blame everything on the superstars are the worst. The entire weight of the rotation is on him, so his struggles are magnified. That's the fault of the GM, not Cole. Every MLB pitcher goes through a 3-4 game stretch like this. Check out Arrietta's last three starts before the All Star Break.

Just like Ivan Nova is not a good pitcher but has pitched okay the past few games, Cole is a very good pitcher who has struggled the past few games. It happens over 162 games.

The sports fans in this city are the worst. Excuse the front office that put this subpar team together, but bash the stars for not being elite every time out. Morons.

I wouldn't call the fans morons. But I agree with the rest.

 

[mvk112]

You must not have watched Glasnow pitch any of his games with the Pirates this year. If you did and it isn't absolutely, completely obvious to you why he wasn't in the majors since the beginning of the year, and indeed why he was no where near ready for the majors when they brought him up, then you have no creditably at all in the discussion.

Wait a second...

Basing anything off of a couple games is pretty silly, though the entire thread is based off of three games, so carry on.

 

[Pittguy1980]

Basing anything off of a couple games is pretty silly, though the entire thread is based off of three games, so carry on.

Again, how little self awareness do you have? It took you three innings to declare Glasnow totally ready for the majors.

 

[mvk112]

Again, how little self awareness do you have? It took you three innings to declare Glasnow totally ready for the majors.

He was ready for the majors well before he pitched in the majors.

 

[pittmeister]

He was ready for the majors well before he pitched in the majors.

Whoa! Says who? You? Show me where a scout, a beat writer, or someone in the Pirates organization that said he was ready?

 

[Pittguy1980]

He was ready for the majors well before he pitched in the majors.

Based off what? If he is walking 5 guys per nine innings he isn't ready.

Again, intellectually dishonest. You know the facts, you have just completely ignored them.

 

[mvk112]

Based off what? If he is walking 5 guys per nine innings he isn't ready.

Again, intellectually dishonest. You know the facts, you have just completely ignored them.

Alex Reyes was walking the same amount per 9, yet here he is in the big leagues with a 0.64 ERA.

Blake Snell was walking a ton, yet like Glasnow striking out a ton, and he's doing very well. Rated highly like Glasnow, too.

Tyler Glasnow has dominated every level he has pitched, has been virtually unhittable, and was ready to pitch in the majors.

 

[pittmeister]

Alex Reyes was walking the same amount per 9, yet here he is in the big leagues with a 0.64 ERA.

Blake Snell was walking a ton, yet like Glasnow striking out a ton, and he's doing very well. Rated highly like Glasnow, too.

Tyler Glasnow has dominated every level he has pitched, has been virtually unhittable, and was ready to pitch in the majors.

In the brief time he spent in the majors this year, Glasnow was the least impressive when comparing him against Kuhl, Taillon and even Brault.

Now if you can find someone other than yourself that said that Glasnow was ready to start the year in Pittsburgh, your argument would have more credibility.

You are stating your opinion, not fact. Therefore it doesn't make pittguy1980 wrong when he says Glasnow was not ready.... Let it go...

 

[mvk112]

In the brief time he spent in the majors this year, Glasnow was the least impressive when comparing him against Kuhl, Taillon and even Brault.

Now if you can find someone other than yourself that said that Glasnow was ready to start the year in Pittsburgh, your argument would have more credibility.

You are stating your opinion, not fact. Therefore it doesn't make pittguy1980 wrong when he says Glasnow was not ready.... Let it go...

He pitched 2 games, getting injured in the second one. Are you seriously judging based on two games?

I wasn't that impressed with Brault either time, and he has been getting smashed in Indy since returning. We'll see how he does tonight, maybe he will surprise.

 

[Pittguy1980]

Alex Reyes was walking the same amount per 9, yet here he is in the big leagues with a 0.64 ERA.

Blake Snell was walking a ton, yet like Glasnow striking out a ton, and he's doing very well. Rated highly like Glasnow, too.

Tyler Glasnow has dominated every level he has pitched, has been virtually unhittable, and was ready to pitch in the majors.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Alex Reyes had a grand total of 14 innings. You are going to pimp his ERA? He also had one start that he threw 89 pitches in 4.2 innings and walked four guys.

And snell has a decent ERA, but has a 1.6 WHIP, which is horrendous. In fact, the awful Jeff Locke has a 1.483 WHIP.

Both of those guys are walking more than 5 per nine innings. The results will eventually turn disastrous with the amount they are walking.

I'm moving from calling you intellectually dishonest to calling you a flat out liar. I don't get how someone that is so levelheaded about Pitt basketball can be so off the rails about the Pirates.

 

[Pittguy1980]

He pitched 2 games, getting injured in the second one. Are you seriously judging based on two games?

I wasn't that impressed with Brault either time, and he has been getting smashed in Indy since returning. We'll see how he does tonight, maybe he will surprise.

I'm judging on minor league numbers. There are certain Minor league numbers I discount, especially offensive power numbers...but walks by a pitcher? Do you think all of a sudden he will learn control at the major league level?

 

[mvk112]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Alex Reyes had a grand total of 14 innings. You are going to pimp his ERA? He also had one start that he threw 89 pitches in 4.2 innings and walked four guys.

And snell has a decent ERA, but has a 1.6 WHIP, which is horrendous. In fact, the awful Jeff Locke has a 1.483 WHIP.

Both of those guys are walking more than 5 per nine innings. The results will eventually turn disastrous with the amount they are walking.

I'm moving from calling you intellectually dishonest to calling you a flat out liar. I don't get how someone that is so levelheaded about Pitt basketball can be so off the rails about the Pirates.

Not surprisingly you missed the point. Those guys were deemed ready by their clubs. Glasnow was ready as well. He has been damn near unhittabable his entire career and strikes out tons of guys. That makes up for walking guys.

 

[pittmeister]

He pitched 2 games, getting injured in the second one. Are you seriously judging based on two games?

I wasn't that impressed with Brault either time, and he has been getting smashed in Indy since returning. We'll see how he does tonight, maybe he will surprise.

Yes, after two games. We have nothing else to go by at the MLB level. Now, if he comes back later in the year and pitches like Kuhl or Taillon then you may have a point. But he's an unknown at this point so we can't say he was ready to pitch at the big league level unless we have proof...

 

[mvk112]

I'm judging on minor league numbers. There are certain Minor league numbers I discount, especially offensive power numbers...but walks by a pitcher? Do you think all of a sudden he will learn control at the major league level?

I think he's going to be similar to AJ Burnett, same type of stuff, same control issues, control got better but still came and went.

I don't think spending more time in AAA will teach him control any more than pitching in MLB will.

 

[Pittguy1980]

I think he's going to be similar to AJ Burnett, same type of stuff, same control issues, control got better but still came and went.

I don't think spending more time in AAA will teach him control any more than pitching in MLB will.

So he should be brought up to learn control at the MLB level, and stink?

Randy Johnson couldn't stick in the majors until he was 26, ad really till he was 29he was just ok overall. He got by on raw stuff. Randy Johnson is a once in a generation type guy though.

Nolan Ryan walked a ton of guys through his career...but got by on people not hitting him. Nolan Ryan is a once in a gerarion type talent.

Maybe Glasnow is one of those guys...but that is unlikely. If he isn't, and he has anything more than 7 hits per 9 innings, he will get torched here.

 

[mvk112]

Why do you think he will stink? The guy has been exceptional at every level. You can't find more than a handful of pitchers in recent (past 30 years) baseball history with a lower batting average against in the minors, all the while being young for his level every step of the way. That shows you how unhittable he is.

Randy Johnson had major issues repeating his delivery that led to his issues. Glasnow doesn't have those same issues. Glasnow isn't Randy Johnson but is anybody really expecting him to be a hall of famer and one of best pitchers of all time?

AJ Burnett is a very reasonable comparable and expectation, with exactly the same pitching style/pitches and issues. I suggest you look at his hit/walk/strikeout numbers from the minors as compared to Glasnow. Very similar. Like Glasnow, Burnett was very highly rated by the prospect sites. He was pretty good from the start (keep in mind it was height of steroid era) and was consistently good his entire career. He is a clear example of a guy whose control improved at the MLB level, and he had success early in his career even with those issues.

It happens, young pitchers with high end talent get better in the majors and don't suck while doing so. You're just buying the company line as spouted by Tim Shilliams that the front office will use to keep him down until next June. Don't want Taillon and Glasnow hitting arbitration at the same time, do we?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Basing anything off of a couple games is pretty silly, though the entire thread is based off of three games, so carry on.

If you couldn't see what his issues were in those starts and you don't know that those are the same issues he had in the minor leagues then you have no creditably at all in this discussion.

Wait a second...

 

[mvk112]

If you couldn't see what his issues were in those starts and you don't know that those are the same issues he had in the minor leagues then you have no creditably at all in this discussion.

Wait a second...

Yeah, the guy had issues in the minor leagues.

2.04 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 0.4 HR/9, 5.4 H/9, 11.6 K/9, 4.4 BB/9 in his career in the minors.

His 'issues' are so far overblown it's ridiculous. He dominated every single level, and was equally unhittable at every level.

Those two starts tell you as much about Tyler Glasnow as the start tonight does about Jake Arrietta.

 

[Pittguy1980]

Yeah, the guy had issues in the minor leagues.

2.04 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 0.4 HR/9, 5.4 H/9, 11.6 K/9, 4.4 BB/9 in his career in the minors.

His 'issues' are so far overblown it's ridiculous. He dominated every single level, and was equally unhittable at every level.

Those two starts tell you as much about Tyler Glasnow as the start tonight does about Jake Arrietta.

Please give me a list of pitchers with great success at the MLB level that walk 4.4 per 9 innings pitch, and then compare it to how many of them fail.

 

[mvk112]

Please give me a list of pitchers with great success at the MLB level that walk 4.4 per 9 innings pitch, and then compare it to how many of them fail.

Most prospects fail. If you compare him to top 20 prospects with similar profiles of K/9 and low hits allowed, he is there with some pretty good pitchers.

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

Why do you think he will stink? The guy has been exceptional at every level. You can't find more than a handful of pitchers in recent (past 30 years) baseball history with a lower batting average against in the minors, all the while being young for his level every step of the way. That shows you how unhittable he is.

Randy Johnson had major issues repeating his delivery that led to his issues. Glasnow doesn't have those same issues. Glasnow isn't Randy Johnson but is anybody really expecting him to be a hall of famer and one of best pitchers of all time?

AJ Burnett is a very reasonable comparable and expectation, with exactly the same pitching style/pitches and issues. I suggest you look at his hit/walk/strikeout numbers from the minors as compared to Glasnow. Very similar. Like Glasnow, Burnett was very highly rated by the prospect sites. He was pretty good from the start (keep in mind it was height of steroid era) and was consistently good his entire career. He is a clear example of a guy whose control improved at the MLB level, and he had success early in his career even with those issues.

It happens, young pitchers with high end talent get better in the majors and don't suck while doing so. You're just buying the company line as spouted by Tim Shilliams that the front office will use to keep him down until next June. Don't want Taillon and Glasnow hitting arbitration at the same time, do we?

Um yes one of the biggest problems from every scout imaginable has said Glasnow has had trouble repeating his delivery....but other than that.......not to mention he has no clue who to control the opposing teams running game.....he's talented yes, but he is still a little raw....deal with it, you are wrong.....seriously how much of a shallow minded fool can you be?

 

[mvk112]

Um yes one of the biggest problems from every scout imaginable has said Glasnow has had trouble repeating his delivery....but other than that.......not to mention he has no clue who to control the opposing teams running game.....he's talented yes, but he is still a little raw....deal with it, you are wrong.....seriously how much of a shallow minded fool can you be?

Actually no, that isn't mentioned by every scout other than to say his tall frame makes it more difficult for him than most, but Baseball America notes that it is a smooth delivery.

You guys are so desperate for NH to be right about this that you are trashing the kid who most likely has the highest upside of anyone he has drafted. This kid should've been up here in late April/early May.

Can we stop acting like pitchers have to be completely finished products before they are called up? Take a look at some of these names and how they fared in the minors as compared to Glasnow. These are all guys who were top 20 prospects the past 20 years, so similarly rated by scouts.

AJ Burnett - 1.38 WHIP, 10.7 K/9, 6.9 H/9, 5.5 BB/9
Jason Schmidt - 1.38 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 8.5 H/9, 4.0 BB/9
Bartolo Colon - 1.16 WHIP, 10.0 K/9, 6.6 H/9, 3.8 BB/9
Chris Carpenter - 1.42 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 8.4 H/9, 4.4 BB/9
Matt Cain - 1.22 WHIP, 10.1 K/9, 7.2 H/9, 3.7 BB/9
Clayton Kershaw - 1.12 WHIP, 11.3 K/9, 6.4 H/9, 3.7 BB/9
Homer Bailey - 1.27 WHIP, 9.7 K/9, 7.3 H/9, 4.2 BB/9

The only guy on that list who hasn't been really successful is Homer Bailey, and he was still much better than three of the five starters NH ran out there for four months. Glasnow has a lower ERA (2.04) than any of those guys, the lowest WHIP (1.08) of any of these guys, the lowest H/9 (5.4) of any of them, the highest K/9 (11.6) of any of them. These are the guys with the most similar profile to him, and he has been flat out better than all of them, with the scouting to match all of them when they were about to be called up.

All of those guys were successful early on while harassing their command at the MLB level. Kershaw had a 143 ERA+ at age 21 with a 4.8 BB/9, due in large part because he struck guys out (9.7 per 9) and didn't give up hits (6.3 per 9). That's the formula Glasnow has dominated with at every stop of the way. Glasnow has a career Batting Average against of .172, you have to go back to 2004 to find any minor league pitcher with a qualifying season with a batting average against that low. Keep in mind, that is Glasnow's career vs everyone else single season.

You have judged this kid on two starts and the words of Tim Shilliams. I'll continue to judge him on his scouting, his career, and his trajectory based upon similar pitching prospects the past 20 years.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You continue to say that you'll judge him on his scouting, yet pretty much all the scouts agreed that he wasn't ready for major league baseball at the beginning of the season. That doesn't fit your agenda though, so you continue to pretend it isn't so. At this point you probably believe that what you've pretended all this time is the actual facts, when it simply isn't.

It's not the results of Glasnow's starts that is important, it's how those starts exposed the problems that he has right now and the things that everyone who has ever seen him pitch says he needs to get better at.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

It's not the results of Glasnow's starts that is important, it's how those starts exposed the problems that he has right now and the things that everyone who has ever seen him pitch says he needs to get better at.

It certainly seems "I'm going to stick with the scouting reports" isn't a particularly convincing line of argument for Glasnow.

Baseball Prospectus, on the date of his call-up:
Standing six-foot-eight, length is an advantage for Glasnow’s fastball. In his most recent start on Saturday night at Toledo, he reached as high as 97, sitting in the mid 90s the entire night. Throwing downhill, he had sink and run, totaling up to a plus-plus pitch. His curveball rivals his fastball, coming in hard with 11-5 break, but also backing up to 12-6 occasionally to give it a different look. These are his bread-and-butter pitches, focusing heavily on a mix of the two. The changeup is a work in progress as he struggles with command of it. Many believe it will be at least an average pitch in the majors, which will come with time and reps.

The big issues for Glasnow have been his control, command and working with runners on. Because of his height his mechanics and delivery will always require some upkeep to ensure consistency, and this is doubly true with runners on. In a recent start his tempo changed with men aboard, and he was visibly uncomfortable, throwing over multiple times, and struggling with his command. If this is a problem in Triple-A, it will only be exploited in the majors.

Baseball America, on the date of his call-up:
Glasnow pitched at the same Hart High in Santa Clarita, Calif., that also produced former Pirates righthander Bob Walk as well as James Shields, Mike Montgomery and Trevor Bauer. He was a late-bloomer in high school who blossomed after he grew a foot. He comes from an athletic family, but Glasnow himself is more of a slow-twitch pitcher whose long levers and merely adequate body control have led to a continual struggle to stay on top of his delivery and his control.

This season, he is 7-2, 1.70 through 17 starts at Indianapolis. He had recorded 10.6 strikeouts and 4.9 walks per nine innings, while allowing just 57 hits (three home runs) in 96 innings.

While Glasnow has plus velocity, it’s his angle that creates uncomfortable at-bats. At 6-foot-8, he has great downhill plane that helps the fastball explode on a hitter. With his smooth delivery, Glasnow is not a maximum-effort thrower but the fastball gets on a hitter quick and at an eye level that makes it hard to resist. The curveball is a power pitch with downward action, but he can lose command of it at times, leading to the too-high walk rate. The changeup is still in development and will need to continue progressing for long-lasting success.

As with some other Pirates hurlers, such as Taillon, the few batters who reach run easily on Glasnow. The Pirates have made keeping pitchers on line to the plate and in sync more of a priority than holding runners.

Keith Law, on June 21st and again on July 14th:
Tyler Glasnow is the team's top prospect, with huge stuff, including a plus fastball that comes right down at hitters from his 6-foot-8 frame and three weapons to get right-handed and left-handed hitters out. But I've spoken to scouts who have seen him this year, and not one thinks he has the command to pitch in the majors right now. He might not even have the control, with 42 walks in 77 innings, including 11 walks in 10.2 innings his past two starts. I still think Glasnow has ace upside in the long run, but I don't think he's going to be a substantial improvement over the guys behind Gerrit Cole and Taillon, and the best thing for his long-term development will be to leave him in Triple-A to work on that control and command.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glasnow struggled with command in his first start, but that was to be expected, as he hasn't even gotten to average control yet. It's still huge stuff in a good body (6-foot-8, 225), and his fastball has to look to hitters like it's coming straight down at them like the cavalry stampeding down a hill. His changeup also remains well behind his plus fastball/breaking-ball combination, which hasn't been an issue in Triple-A but could be one in the majors. He's still a future star, but I don't believe he's going to help the Pirates much this year, and those two things are not mutually exclusive.

2 scouting reports from 2080 Baseball:
Athletic-bodied RHSP with a three-pitch mix. Plus fastball, elite curveball, and below-average changeup at present. Below average command and control profile as expected from long limbs. Curveball was so good and consistent this outing that he may be able to get by without much of a changeup if he can maintain consistency with the pitch. However, the lack of third pitch and overall command and control profile limits his ceiling. Future #3 starter. Still just 22 years old, and he should be given every opportunity to develop as a starter; yet a future move to the pen would not be a huge surprise if he doesn't develop a serviceable third offering.
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Heading into his start last night (May 12th), 2080 Baseball’s #10-ranked prospect in our Preseason Top 125 Prospect Rankings, Glasnow currently leads the International League with 48 strikeouts. His line to date through six starts has produced 33IP, 21H, 6 ER, 13, BB, 48K, and a 1.03 WHIP. The 6’8” right-hander has a very quick arm with a mid-to-upper 90s fastball and a plus curveball. His developing changeup has a chance to be average, and it remains one of his main points of development at Indianapolis to justify his ceiling as a top-of-the-rotation starter at the big league level.

As with most pitchers his size, his long limbs and delivery have hindered some of his ability to repeat his delivery and command the zone on a consistent basis. Glasnow could provide immediate value in the Pirates’ rotation with his current tool set, but he is better served to continue developing in Triple-A for now – working on his changeup and his ability to throw consistent strikes – for the betterment of his long term development.

Glasnow is pretty athletic, and I fully expect to see him able to make the appropriate adjustments. He could make his MLB debut in the near future, but how soon? The Pirates are best served at waiting until the expected “Super Two” cut-off date passes – at this point expected to be sometime in June.

And finally, Fangraphs' lead scout wrote up a lengthy report on Glasnow, which hit on all the main talking points -- LINK

 

[Panther Holla]

You don't suppose Cole hurt his elbow while banging on the glass at that Pens' playoff game, do yinz?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

You don't suppose Cole hurt his elbow while banging on the glass at that Pens' playoff game, do yinz?

Probably more related to all the maniacal towel twirling in between his sets of 24 oz curls, IMO. That's just hell on the arm

 

[mvk112]

And not one of those, save for a piece of the Keith Law blurb, says he isn't ready now. They all say he has to continue to develop and stay on top of his delivery, things I have noted and things every young pitcher has to do, and they do it in the majors. Nowhere does it say he doesn't repeat his delivery.

All of them talk up his plus fastball and plus curveball, and the things he needs to work on, 4 out of 5 young pitchers have to work on (most specifically refining 3rd pitch). The holding runners on thing is a Pirates development issue, not specific to Glasnow. They just don't work on it at all in the minors for whatever reason, then blame the kids for not holding runners on.

Thinking development stops when a pitcher reaches the majors is foolish. Tyler Glasnow is every bit the pitcher right now each of those pitchers I listed was in the minors, whether you want to scout the player or the statline.

No organization or fanbase talks up their A ball prospects as much as the Pirates, then nitpicks the hell out of them when they are ready to be called up. We all know why, it's to justify keeping them down in the minors longer so they can delay paying them, even if they are far superior options to what they have on the 25 man roster. Taillon and Bell are showing how foolish this strategy was, and Glasnow would be doing the same thing were it not for injury.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

And not one of those, save for a piece of the Keith Law blurb, says he isn't ready now. They all say he has to continue to develop and stay on top of his delivery, things I have noted and things every young pitcher has to do, and they do it in the majors. Nowhere does it say he doesn't repeat his delivery.

All of them talk up his plus fastball and plus curveball, and the things he needs to work on, 4 out of 5 young pitchers have to work on (most specifically refining 3rd pitch). The holding runners on thing is a Pirates development issue, not specific to Glasnow. They just don't work on it at all in the minors for whatever reason, then blame the kids for not holding runners on.

Thinking development stops when a pitcher reaches the majors is foolish. Tyler Glasnow is every bit the pitcher right now each of those pitchers I listed was in the minors, whether you want to scout the player or the statline.

No organization or fanbase talks up their A ball prospects as much as the Pirates, then nitpicks the hell out of them when they are ready to be called up. We all know why, it's to justify keeping them down in the minors longer so they can delay paying them, even if they are far superior options to what they have on the 25 man roster. Taillon and Bell are showing how foolish this strategy was, and Glasnow would be doing the same thing were it not for injury.

Yeah, Neil Huntington just won't stop bringing Mitch Keller up in his press conferences, it's definitely the Pirates who are overhyping their prospects and not at all the media.

And, to be fair, not one of those scouting reports are saying that he's ready either. They're just reporting on the flaws and 2080 also went out of their way to note that staying in AAA is probably best for him long-term.

As we've discussed and you've repeatedly failed to grasp (among so, so many other things), nobody with a competent front office is playing one year at a time.

Also, noticed in an earlier post you were bitching about how the Pirates were going to lose 15+ games off of last year's pace and wanted examples of other teams doing the same.

I submit the Cardinals.

And now I'm going to leave again and continue to let this thread go way off the rails with paranoia and hindsight.

 

[mvk112]

If you're waiting for a pitcher to be perfect before you call him up, you will wait forever. If you have a pitcher with two plus pitches, at least one consistently referred to as plus plus, you call him up and let him finish development at the MLB level.

Unless of course, your main goal is suppressing salary and not putting your best players out there.

 

[mvk112]

Yeah, Neil Huntington just won't stop bringing Mitch Keller up in his press conferences, it's definitely the Pirates who are overhyping their prospects and not at all the media.

And, to be fair, not one of those scouting reports are saying that he's ready either. They're just reporting on the flaws and 2080 also went out of their way to note that staying in AAA is probably best for him long-term.

As we've discussed and you've repeatedly failed to grasp (among so, so many other things), nobody with a competent front office is playing one year at a time.

Also, noticed in an earlier post you were bitching about how the Pirates were going to lose 15+ games off of last year's pace and wanted examples of other teams doing the same.

I submit the Cardinals.

And now I'm going to leave again and continue to let this thread go way off the rails with paranoia and hindsight.

The Cardinals:

A: weren't one of the teams the guy listed
And
B: very likely to win more than 85 games

It's interesting you read those reports and concentrate of 'flaws' yet ignore how every single one of them discuss his two plus (or many times plus plus) pitches. Just as I said, the Pirates fans will pump up a guy in A ball yet nitpick like hell when a guy is ready. And the front office feeds into this with their ridiculous 'checking the boxes' comments.

 

[Pittguy1980]

I'm done in here. MVk is just straight dumb on baseball, and has allowed his anti FO judgement to cloud every view point of the team.

 

[mvk112]

I'm done in here. MVk is just straight dumb on baseball, and has allowed his anti FO judgement to cloud every view point of the team.

Yeah, your original post says to get rid of Gerrit Cole, yet I'm straight dumb on baseball. Yinzers gonna yinz.

 

[pittmeister]

If you're waiting for a pitcher to be perfect before you call him up, you will wait forever. If you have a pitcher with two plus pitches, at least one consistently referred to as plus plus, you call him up and let him finish development at the MLB level.

Unless of course, your main goal is suppressing salary and not putting your best players out there.

But you expect the GM to be perfect with a limited payroll. You can take shots all you want at Nutting, but NH is playing the cards he was dealt.

 

[mvk112]

But but but.... they're within sniffing distance of the second wild card! All praise to NEAL! It's not his fault he put together a starting rotation with Locke, Niese, and Nicasio in it! It's not his fault he traded Neil Walker for Jon Niese, and thus they have Josh Harrison at 2B! It's not his fault he didn't call up Taillon and Bell until at least half the season was over! It's not his fault! Go NEAL!

 

[mvk112]

But you expect the GM to be perfect with a limited payroll. You can take shots all you want at Nutting, but NH is playing the cards he was dealt.

That would hold a lot more water if he didn't waste about a quarter of the payroll he was given.

 

[pittmeister]

But but but.... they're within sniffing distance of the second wild card! All praise to NEAL! It's not his fault he put together a starting rotation with Locke, Niese, and Nicasio in it! It's not his fault he traded Neil Walker for Jon Niese, and thus they have Josh Harrison at 2B! It's not his fault he didn't call up Taillon and Bell until at least half the season was over! It's not his fault! Go NEAL!

Of course you could do better, right? You're a cheap imitation of Ron Cook - a know nothing asshole who thinks he can do it better than anyone else.

What do you do for a living? I'd love to know.

 

[pittmeister]

That would hold a lot more water if he didn't waste about a quarter of the payroll he was given.

You're as lame as they come.... What do you do for a living? I'll bet you're perfect at it... Walmart? McDonalds?