OT: Gerrit Cole
- Thread starter Pittguy1980
- Start date
Glasgow got hurt. I'd still rather have had him up here instead of Niese, Nicasio, and Locke.
So you're digging your heels in on Walker trade. That's worked out quite well for you.
They won 98 games last year with Alvarez at 1B, Bell should've been here in April.
Just keep cheerleading everything Neal does. That got you the Walker trade (which somehow you are still approving of, as insane as that is), Juan Nicasio as a starter, Locke in the rotation until August, Jaso at 1B, and JHay at 2B everyday.
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Pitchers wins, I've seen it all.
Rivero walks about 7 batters per 9 innings. Good luck with that one.
LOL. I'm going to not use hindsight to judge things, if that's what you're saying I should do. It's pretty radical, I know, but I don't think cherry picking data points or freaking out about small samples is particularly instructive -- and it's definitely not constructive.
I'm out. You keep making yourself crazy with believing people in baseball have total control and perfect foresight.
Those are FACTS dumbass. Something you ignore. They have won the most games on the staff. Those are the pitchers you constantly attack moron. Don't be bitter because you have been proven over and over you know nothing about baseball fool. Let it go!
Man, you're a jackass.
Btw, no one here here is saying that Gerrit Cole stinks. But was is clear is that he had a much better season last year. And he's not the only one. That, at a minimum, is why the Pirates aren't on pace to Win 98 games this year.
Now, if you want more statistical evidence, last year Cole had 25 quality starts.
This year? 11.
Jeff Locke? He's got 9.
Anyone with a brain could've told you the Walker/Niese deal was horrid from the start. You don't trade a consistent 115wRC+/2.7 WAR 2B for a SP with middling stuff who was knocked from the rotation last year. The only people who were happy with that trade were the front office fans.
Locke is going to get the win tonight if the bullpen holds on. That should tell you all you need to know about pitchers wins.
Taillon has had 8 straight starts of 6 innings or more until tonight. Cole is good pitcher, What most of us are saying is he shouldn't be paid like an elite pitcher because he hasn't showed it as of yet. I don't want him traded unless Boros makes it apparent he won't budge. mvk112 is just making things up because he's losing this debate terribly and won't let the thread die...
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That's 26 wins if you combined Nicasio, Locke and Niese's record. The following GM's should be fired because they didn't figure out ahead of time that they would have worst records than the Pirates:
Tampa Bay
Chi. White Sox
Minnesota
Oakland
L.A. Angels
N.Y. Mets
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Cincinnati
Colorado
Arizona
San Diego
They should have known they were going to suck and made the moves that would have made them the best team in baseball... If they didn't know, they should have check with mvk112. He knew all the time...
That's 26 wins if you combined Nicasio, Locke and Niese's record. The following GM's should be fired because they didn't figure out ahead of time that they would have worst records than the Pirates:
Tampa Bay
Chi. White Sox
Minnesota
Oakland
L.A. Angels
N.Y. Mets
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Cincinnati
Colorado
Arizona
San Diego
They should have known they were going to suck and made the moves that would have made them the best team in baseball... If they didn't know, they should have check with mvk112. He knew all the time...
How many of those teams are going to drop about 15 wins from the previous year?
Keep talking pitchers wins. That's how everyone knows you know nothing about baseball.
He hasn't shown it yet? He was fourth in Cy Young voting last year. He's been really good for four years now. It's not a big surprise that he's getting his elbow checked out, these last three starts are so far out of character for how he has pitched the past four years. Yet you morons are bashing the guy who had a 2.94 ERA coming into those last three starts.
Yinzers gonna yinz though.
By the way, the original post in this thread was about trading Cole. Dumb or Dishonest, let me know.
LOL! You're BOTH Dumb and DISHONEST. Everybody knows that YOU don't know a damn thing about baseball. If we took a survey you'd finish last! .... Let the grown ups talk about sports it's past your bedtime....
What about Nicasio? Three great innings of relief. But once a yinzer, always a yinzer. You forgot about him because it doesn't fit your narrative.
BTW, I'm looking up all the CY Young finishes to see who finished 4th. Then will see if you agree that they should be called elite as well.... Should be hilarious and embarrassing to you.
What a LOSER.... LOL!
He should've been a reliever all year, but the genius who put this team together had him in the rotation almost four months.
I said earlier in this thread, if you could comprehend what you read, that he took a guy who had success as a reliever, but not as a starter, and put him in the rotation.
Dumb.
Neil just hit his 23rd HR on the year, tying career high, with a month+ to go. Great trade, Neil.
Here ya go Fool...
The following have finished 4th or higher in the CY Young voting in the last 10 years. Therefore according to mvk112, they should be considered “elite” just like Gerritt Cole!
Anibal Sanchez,
Hisashi Iwakuma
Ian Kennedy
Gio Gonzalez
Tim Hudson
Ubaldo Jimenez
Javier Vazquez
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Brandon Webb
Brad Lidge
Aaron Harang
Roberto Hernandez
Did these pitchers get paid elite money because they finished higher than 4th in the CY Young balloting????? So you know for sure that Cole is going to go on to have an elite career???? But of course, you know!!!! You probably knew that the players on the above list would burn out....
You lose.... Again... Unbelievable....
Funny you left out most of the guys the most recent 6 years. Nice cherry picking.
Sale (2015)
Bumgarner (2014)
Lester (2014)
Matt Harvey (2013)
Anibal Sanchez (2013)
Cueto (2012)
King Felix (2012)
CC Sabathia (2011)
Ian Kennedy (2011)
Lester (2010)
Hudson (2010)
How much are those guys making? Or in the case of Sale and Bumgarner, how much will he make? Hell, even Anibal Sanchez is making $18m per year.
I mean, to be so dishonest to go back over 6 years to try to cherry pick a list that is filled with elite guys like Sale, Bumgarner, Cueto, King Felix, Lester, etc just boggles my mind. But it shouldn't after reading the awful baseball analysis you have tried to provide.
Pitchers win, please tell us more!
Pitchers win, please tell us more!
So just out of curiosity MVk, here is a hypothetical for you.
Pirates sneak into the wc this game, win it, and advance to the WS and lose. Does Huntington get credit for that, or do you consider it luck they made it that far?
Pirates sneak into the wc this game, win it, and advance to the WS and lose. Does Huntington get credit for that, or do you consider it luck they made it that far?
You cherry pick all the time when it comes to NH! LOL! You once again talk out of both sides of your mouth! And of course, Cole is going to be on your list and not mine. Why, because you already know!
You're looking silly by the minute!
Here's a hypothetical for you. If Gerrit Cole pitches the game that clinches the division series and the NLCS, would you still want to run him out of town for a couple of bad starts in August?
He won't answer your question. He knows it would hurt his narrative. He'll continue to cherry pick facts and be a jackass... He is WRONG.
You're the one who wanted to compare him with recent 4th place CyYoung finishers, yet neglected to include just about every fourth place finisher from the past six years. Incredibly dishonest. But par for the course for you.
Cole is amongst a group the past few years that includes Sale, Bumgarner, Lester, Cueto, Felix Hernandez, etc. That's a pretty elite group.
And you are being dishonest when you rip NH for bad deals but not giving him credit with the good acquistions that he has made. I can play that game too...
He's made good moves for the bullpen and bench. Like I said, he does well around the margins. He failed to put together a competent rotation, he made one of the worst trades of the past few years with Walker for Niese, and he signed Jaso at 1B.
He panicked that Liriano wouldn't come around (he always has) and dealt two top ten prospects to get rid of him, and received nothing in return. Liriano has a 3.97 ERA in Toronto this month (which is a 109 ERA+, on par with his past three seasons here: 118, 106, & 114).
So yeah, NH can build a bench and bullpen. I'd much rather he concentrated on the rotation and everyday players. They are way more important. I'd rather he have had Bell and Taillon and Glasnow up here in late April if he wasn't going to be serious in the offseason about addressing these spots. I'd rather he not waste money on guys like Locke, Niese, and Jaso. I'd rather he not try to make relief pitchers into starters.
Just build a real team with good players and use the players you have correctly.
He does a good job buying low on players. He does a good job building bullpens and benches. I don't agree with trading for relievers like Rivero though, when he's proven to find good guys other ways like waivers, free agency, and converting starters. Don't trade a good trade chip for a relief pitcher, especially when everyone else is getting high end players.
His best three players from the past four years were products of the previous GM. He hasn't drafted well (especially in comparison to rest of league) to fill in around them.
His teams haven't won anything yet. 8 out of the other 10 guys who have been GMs more than two years have accomplished more than him. He's an average at best GM. Those who make him out as more are foolish.
If all nh can do is build a bench, then how on earth has the team made the playoffs the last 3 years and competing for a fourth?
I mean seriously, did you completely forget the state the team was in when he took over? You do realize the World Series champions won LESS games than the Pirates last year? I suppose you blame Huntington for not doing enough to get the Pirates to move to the al central lol.
The guy was handed his three best players. He drafted top five half of his tenure here.
8 of the other 10 GMs that have been on the job over 2 years have won a division, playoff series, pennant, or world series. Neal hasn't. Seems to me he's not quite as good as most of his peers.
I knew that was coming. How about, since you blast the Harrison contract constantly (which isn't nearly as awful as you make it out to be) you give credit for the AMAZING contracts for marte, cutch, and Polanco?
The Harrison contract isn't awful? They're going to pay him $7.5m next year & $10m in 2018 and he's the worst everyday 2B in baseball. He's 20th of 22 qualified 2B in WAR, 21st of 22 in OBP, and 22 if 22 in wRC+.
Why can't you answers damn question? How are the marte, Polanco, and cutch contracts?
How about if the Pirates sneak into the playoffs, and get to the WS...does Huntington get credit or are they lucky?
Why are you being such an intellectually dishonest Jackass?
BINGO! He reminds me of Brian Gold (ironworks) that got banned on every Pitt message board for being a pompous obnoxious jerk... Don't waste your breath. He won't answer your questions. Just play the way he does and he'll call you out for doing the same thing he does...
I don't deal in hypotheticals.
What if they finish below .500, will you blame NH for put together a shit rotation and 1B/2B? Since you love hypotheticals so much, you answer.
Buying out a year or two of Cutch, Marte, and Polanco was a good job. In fact, it is by far the best thing NH has done. Lucky for him, Littlefield left him Cutch and Marte.
Conversely, are you holding him to the fire for wasting money in guys like Niese, Locke, Jaso, Harrison, Charlie Morton, Jose Tabata, Corey Hart, etc etc etc?
The guy tied up almost a quarter of his payroll this year on awful players. That isn't entirely on Nutting.
