OT pens gave 4

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I'm not a huge follower of hockey and I watch a few Pens games a year. But from the comments I heard from Rutherford today, I'd say the game has passed him by and he's the one that needs to go. He comes off as someone who is guilty of the exact thing he accuses his players of being....comfortable with winning the 2 cups and nothing more. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and is fixated on the old way of playing hockey and forming a team. Times have changed and he hasn't.

Well.......for not a follower of hockey, I think you read it well. I am not comfortable with him, and while he did well, I think moving forward would not mind some fresher minds looking and working deals and drafting players.

I say kick Rutherford upstairs in an admin role and give the day to day stuff to someone else.

 

[maxxwell]

I'm not a huge follower of hockey and I watch a few Pens games a year. But from the comments I heard from Rutherford today, I'd say the game has passed him by and he's the one that needs to go. He comes off as someone who is guilty of the exact thing he accuses his players of being....comfortable with winning the 2 cups and nothing more. He talks out of both sides of his mouth and is fixated on the old way of playing hockey and forming a team. Times have changed and he hasn't.

Apparently Dejan commented the other day about an arrogance within the organization that had made it all the way into the room and cited it as a reason for the result we saw. Listening to GMJR and maybe Kris Letang I’d say they were two guilty parties.

 

[Jakey_John]

There’s been “arrogance” every offseason when the Pens don’t win since 2010. These comments are coming from a guy who can’t hold onto his employees. I wouldn’t put much stock into them.

Perhaps Rutherford is too old but it’s not like he remained status quo all season. His biggest fault was probably the contracts he gave to Johnson and Hornquvist. That happened over the Summer. As far as Letang’s comments are concerned they definitely were self centered but they were more defensive than arrogant.

 

[JD1976]

Well.......for not a follower of hockey, I think you read it well. I am not comfortable with him, and while he did well, I think moving forward would not mind some fresher minds looking and working deals and drafting players.

I say kick Rutherford upstairs in an admin role and give the day to day stuff to someone else.

Rutherford is the perfect GM for a team that contends for the playoffs and Stanley Cups. He is arguably the best GM in recent memory at making NHL-for-NHL trades and improving his teams. We saw that in 2016 and ‘17. Same thing when he was in Carolina when they won the Cup in 2006.

The downside of GMJR is that he has never cared much for the draft or developing talent. At some point in the next 2-3 years, the Pens need to start looking to the future and stockpiling good, young talent. When that time comes, Rutherford no longer should be in charge. Don’t be surprised if Mario brings in Ron Francis. His Carolina teams never got over the hump, but they have a deep, talented system.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Speaking of Carolina..........What are the NBC execs thinking right now?
The Pens out. The Bolts, out. Caps now 2-2. Boston 2-2.

The NBC execs looking at that potential CBJ/Winnipeg SCF....not pleased.

Even though that would be a fun matchup.

 

[JD1976]

Speaking of Carolina..........What are the NBC execs thinking right now?
The Pens out. The Bolts, out. Caps now 2-2. Boston 2-2.

The NBC execs looking at that potential CBJ/Winnipeg SCF....not pleased.

Even though that would be a fun matchup.

I would assume they are privately rooting for Vegas and either Washington or Boston, even though I agree that Columbus/Winnipeg would be great... or the all-Canadian Toronto/Winnipeg.

 

[mike412]

Here is the realistic, sad news about rebuilding the Pens: It’s probably going to take a long time.

As I said a few months ago, Malkin is a shell of the player he was 2 or 3 years ago. He has become a turnover machine who takes a lot of stupid penalties. He is old and his decline is going to continue. The days of the Penguins’ “two-headed monster” are over.

Crosby still is an elite player. The question is, will he continue to perform at an elite level for a team which is not a contender?

They have no elite prospects in the system. They have very few good prospects in the system. Of the top 20 scorers in the NHL this last season, 15 were first round draft choices. And, most of those were chosen with top ten picks. The Pens are going to have to get worse before they are in a position to draft elite talent. Remember that after they won two Stanley Cups, they had to get very bad again before they were in a position to draft Fleury, Malkin and Crosby with high first round picks.

They have won three Stanley Cups with pretty much the same players. Hell, that’s more than the Rangers have won in their history. That’s more than many teams have won. Pittsburgh fans should be thankful for that. And should expect a steep decline in performance the next few years.

The best thing they can do now is trade the valuable pieces they can and stock up on a combination of high draft choices and young players with potential. They need a new front office to do that. With few exceptions, the deals Rutherford has made the past three years have ranged from bad to awful. He needs to retire again, this time for good. They need a GM with an eye for young, fast skilled players. They need a coach with a system like the one the Islanders have installed. The Islanders are a great example of addition by subtraction. They got rid of their best player per the stat sheets and have guys now who play the game the way their coach wants it played.

The Pens need to get rid of Malkin, Letang, Murray (because goalie is the one position where lower draft choices flourish not because he is a scapegoat, but he is an average Goalie at best), Rust, Maata, Kessel and anyone else they can get decent value for. The market for them will not be what it would have been two years ago, but they can deal them to teams that think they are one or two players away from winning the Cup. If they do that — and get very lucky — they can rebuild without become a bottom dweller which needs to hit a home run in 3 or 4 consecutive high draft picks to become a contender.

Otherwise, give thanks for those three Cups (or if you are old enough like me, the 5 Cups) and give thanks that you aren’t a Ranger fan. And, hope that the next time there is a Sidney Crosby or Mario Lemieux available in the draft, the Pens will have the number one pick.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I’ve just learned that a lot of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about and every time we lose it’s all Letang’s fault.

We scored three goals in the final three games of that series, two were by Wilson and Gudbranson. And the takeaway for some was that the real problem in Pittsburgh was the defenseman who plays 25-28 minutes per night and saves our ass all the time?

Uh, okay.

That’s certainly not my analysis, but people are free to be as wrong as they choose to be.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I love how when people have a different opinion-
It’s clearly because they don’t understand the very complicated game of hockey.

Game 4 33 shots on goal
Game 3 26 shots on goal
Game 3 33 shots on goal

Lehner surrenders 1 gaa per game.

Hell in our best chance to win in game 1 we generate 44 shots and score 3 times.
And lehner was still the best goalie on the ice.


Somehow pointing out the goalie surrendered 3 goals a game is oversimplified-
Where saying we only scored 1 goal a game (a result of their goalie playing great ) is some high level analysis.


Murray gave up 2.69 gaa during the regular season.
This playoffs wasn’t an anomaly.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I’ve just learned that a lot of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about and every time we lose it’s all Letang’s fault.

We scored three goals in the final three games of that series, two were by Wilson and Gudbranson. And the takeaway for some was that the real problem in Pittsburgh was the defenseman who plays 25-28 minutes per night and saves our ass all the time?

Uh, okay.

That’s certainly not my analysis, but people are free to be as wrong as they choose to be.

+\- is a flawed stat
But letang was -3 for the series.


His turnovers led to several of the goals and rushes.


He stunk

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I love how when people have a different opinion-
It’s clearly because they don’t understand the very complicated game of hockey.

Game 4 33 shots on goal
Game 3 26 shots on goal
Game 3 33 shots on goal

Lehner surrenders 1 gaa per game.

Hell in our best chance to win in game 1 we generate 44 shots and score 3 times.
And lehner was still the best goalie on the ice.


Somehow pointing out the goalie surrendered 3 goals a game is oversimplified-
Where saying we only scored 1 goal a game (a result of their goalie playing great ) is some high level analysis.


Murray gave up 2.69 gaa during the regular season.
This playoffs wasn’t an anomaly.

Again, as some people can only obsess with Letang, Soufie can only obsess over Murray. 3 goals is 3 goals. And of the Pens shots on goal, you watched the games, how many of them were on odd man breaks, how many were prime scoring chances. Contrast this with the Islanders chances.

If you can only focus on one thing, can you please kindly recuse yourself of this discussion, or go find the "I Heart Marc Andre Fleury" board. Thanks.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

+\- is a flawed stat
But letang was -3 for the series.


His turnovers led to several of the goals and rushes.


He stunk

It is not a totally flawed stat. I mean, when your 1 center is +18 and your 2 center is -25, I don't think there is any statistic (considering the play the same PP) that is more telling, more visible in regards to the quality of play.

The analytics world, especially in hockey, oversells itself, sometimes the obvious, and this is the eye test of eye tests explains so much.

I honestly don't know how Malkin was so poor this year. I really don't. That is a goal differential of 43 between when Sid was on the ice and Geno. Yikes.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I’ve just learned that a lot of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about and every time we lose it’s all Letang’s fault.

We scored three goals in the final three games of that series, two were by Wilson and Gudbranson. And the takeaway for some was that the real problem in Pittsburgh was the defenseman who plays 25-28 minutes per night and saves our ass all the time?

Uh, okay.

That’s certainly not my analysis, but people are free to be as wrong as they choose to be.

I don't know. The Pens seem to play more responsibly when Letang is out there. Maybe it is because he just doesn't play responsibly, and everyone else plays the game. I don't think it is a slam dunk any longer than Letang can't be moved. Their success with Letang out of the lineup is pretty much the same as when he is in the lineup. Dumo was a +31, Letang was a +18. Now a lot of the difference is because of the shorties given up. But Dumo covers up for a lot of Letang's mistakes.

Letang likes to play the game 1000 mph, and in many cases, that is what makes him great. But this also applies to simple things like someone slashes him with a 2 goal lead and 5 minutes to go (applies to Geno) and they can't help themselves to slash back. Or get involved in a scrum that leads to aggravating an injury. He has to be smarter now at 32, but it is obvious he isn't going to be and doesn't want to be.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

It’s not a slam dunk that anyone other than 87 can’t be moved. I get that and depending on the return, I’m wide open to anyone being dealt. We need to get younger and better.

However, if we’re going to be reactionary based on the most recent results, then why don’t we address the actual problem rather than trying to vindicate a long held really bad opinion - which is what is basically happening in this thread (not by you)?

The Penguins have become too slow. They cannot consistently get in on the forecheck and they often cannot escape their own zone. I think everyone understands that by now, right?

The only real question becomes are the Penguins failing to consistently apply an aggressive forecheck because the forwards are simply too slow or because the defensemen are too slow/weak and the forwards need to spend more more time in the neutral and defensive zones insulating them?

Or is it a combination of the two (my view)?

That’s definitely a factor because if you look at all of the players we’ve lost in recent years, the vast majority of them were above average to elite NHL skaters. Well, when you lose a ton of excellent skaters, and replace them with slower skaters, eventually you become a slower and slower team.

Regardless of where you fall on that debate, explain to me how getting rid of our best defenseman at escaping his own zone makes us better in that core deficiency?

For that matter, explain to me how getting rid of the defenseman who plays more minutes than anyone else and it who is basically our very best defenseman in every situation makes us better?

Further, to remove bias, apply that logic to any other playoff team and explain to me which one of them would be better off by trading away their best defenseman – as determined by who plays the most minutes?

Explain to me how St. Louis would be better off without Alex Pietrangelo, or how Toronto would be better without Morgan Rielly. Explain how Boston would be better without Zdeno Chara or Charlie McEvoy or how Washington would be better off without John Carlson?

Now explain to me again how Pittsburgh would be better off without Kris Letang?

It’s just not a good idea unless the return is exceptional, at which point you have to consider it.

I just heard this refrain that Letang stinks and needs to be traded for 10 or 12 years now and yet coach after coach continues to play him 25–27 minutes per night.

But what do those losers know?

I’m sorry but the people who insist that Letang sucks and is the root cause for all of our problems are just plain wrong - just like they were when they were saying the same old stupid song three years ago, five years ago, eight years ago and 10 years ago too.

You want to know why he’s on the ice for all these goals against? It’s because he’s always on the ice. Why is he always on the ice? I don’t know, why don’t you guys tell me?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

What are you doing here, dude?

You’re better than this – you must be better than this. I’m definitely better than that and I wish you a happy and fulfilling Good Friday.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

It’s not a slam dunk that anyone other than 87 can’t be moved. I get that and depending on the return, I’m wide open to anyone being dealt. We need to get younger and better.

However, if we’re going to be reactionary based on the most recent results, then why don’t we address the actual problem rather than trying to vindicate a long held really bad opinion - which is what is basically happening in this thread (not by you)?

The Penguins have become too slow. They cannot consistently get in on the forecheck and they often cannot escape their own zone. I think everyone understands that by now, right?

The only real question becomes are the Penguins failing to consistently apply an aggressive forecheck because the forwards are simply too slow or because the defensemen are too slow/weak and the forwards need to spend more more time in the neutral and defensive zones insulating them?

Or is it a combination of the two (my view)?

That’s definitely a factor because if you look at all of the players we’ve lost in recent years, the vast majority of them were above average to elite NHL skaters. Well, when you lose a ton of excellent skaters, and replace them with slower skaters, eventually you become a slower and slower team.

Regardless of where you fall on that debate, explain to me how getting rid of our best defenseman at escaping his own zone makes us better in that core deficiency?

For that matter, explain to me how getting rid of the defenseman who plays more minutes than anyone else and it who is basically our very best defenseman in every situation makes us better?

Further, to remove bias, apply that logic to any other playoff team and explain to me which one of them would be better off by trading away their best defenseman – as determined by who plays the most minutes?

Explain to me how St. Louis would be better off without Alex Pietrangelo, or how Toronto would be better without Morgan Rielly. Explain how Boston would be better without Zdeno Chara or Charlie McEvoy or how Washington would be better off without John Carlson?

Now explain to me again how Pittsburgh would be better off without Kris Letang?

It’s just not a good idea unless the return is exceptional, at which point you have to consider it.

I just heard this refrain that Letang stinks and needs to be traded for 10 or 12 years now and yet coach after coach continues to play him 25–27 minutes per night.

But what do those losers know?

I’m sorry but the people who insist that Letang sucks and is the root cause for all of our problems are just plain wrong - just like they were when they were saying the same old stupid song three years ago, five years ago, eight years ago and 10 years ago too.

You want to know why he’s on the ice for all these goals against? It’s because he’s always on the ice. Why is he always on the ice? I don’t know, why don’t you guys tell me?

Pens won a cup without letang
They can be mediocre without him like they are with him on the ice.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Well, that’s pretty specious logic as well.

I’m not sure if people realize how incredibly lucky Pittsburgh was to win the Stanley Cup in 2017? Honestly, when you look at their profile and their underlying numbers, they were probably the weakest Stanley Cup champion in the last 30 years.

That makes them one of my all-time favorite teams because they literally gutted their way to the Cup. However, they won it inspite of not having Letang, not because of it.

LOL! That’s insane!

The Eagles won the Super Bowl without Carson Wentz. Does that mean they should trade him? I’m sure there are lunatics in Philadelphia who feel that way. However, like the anti-Letang jihadists, those people are similarly wrong.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Well, that’s pretty specious logic as well.

I’m not sure if people realize how incredibly lucky Pittsburgh was to win the Stanley Cup in 2017? Honestly, when you look at their profile and their underlying numbers, they were probably the weakest Stanley Cup champion in the last 30 years.

That makes them one of my all-time favorite teams because they literally gutted their way to the Cup. However, they won it inspite of not having Letang, not because of it.

LOL! That’s insane!

The Eagles won the Super Bowl without Carson Wentz. Does that mean they should trade him? I’m sure there are lunatics in Philadelphia who feel that way. However, like the anti-Letang jihadists, those people are similarly wrong.

So dramatic
He stunk in the playoffs.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Pittsburgh was the only team since they introduction of the James Norris Trophy (in 1952) to win the Stanley Cup without having a single defenseman in its corps to have received a vote for that trophy.

Letang obviously has received votes for that trophy – and for good reason, because he’s one of the best defenseman in the NHL and has been for a long time – but he doesn’t count because he did not play in that entire run.

Pittsburgh was also the first team since they started tracking it to win the Stanley Cup despite being out-shot in the majority of its playoff games. The Penguins were out-shot in 17 of 23 playoff games that year.

Ten times, they were out-shot by more than 10 shots per game.

They were incredibly lucky to win the Stanley Cup that year – I’ll just leave it at that. Really, their profile is very different than pretty much every other champion before or since in the modern era. Ironically, the champion that that team most reminds me of is Carolina back in 2006.

Do you think if we had had our number one defenseman doing that run it would’ve impacted any of those statistics or facts?

I’m sorry if my frankness and common sense approach offends people, but this was a moronic debate in 2009, it was a moronic debate in 2012, it was a moronic debate in 2016 and it is a moronic debate now.

That’s a lot of different coaches and multiple general managers and they all came to the exact same conclusion – that he was our best defenseman. However, all of them are wrong, right? None of them does what they’re talking about, right?

Okay.

Again though, people are perfectly entitled to have whatever bad opinions they insist on having and I’m not here to stop them. However, I’m also not interested in shying away from weighing in whenever an embarrassingly under-informed opinion is being repeated over and over again.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Get ready for a thesis level voluminous multi post reply from his biggest long winded fan.

Called it

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Oh, you rapscallion, you! You totally got me. You were routed on actual points, but you did prevail on the petty part, so congratulations?

BTW, were you the one who was making fun of the guy for having a stroke? Please tell me it wasn’t you.

Whoever it was has lost my respect forever and will not have to worry about any more voluminous responses because they’re obviously too much of an imbecile to understand what I’m saying anyway.

Again though, that’s the type of juvenile petty bullshit people pull whenever they are getting their ass kicked on actual points.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Again, as some people can only obsess with Letang, Soufie can only obsess over Murray. 3 goals is 3 goals. And of the Pens shots on goal, you watched the games, how many of them were on odd man breaks, how many were prime scoring chances. Contrast this with the Islanders chances.

If you can only focus on one thing, can you please kindly recuse yourself of this discussion, or go find the "I Heart Marc Andre Fleury" board. Thanks.

How many time did the isles defense pinch or carry the puck deep in the offensive end?

When your defensemen actually play like defenseman-
You don’t give up bad rushes and you’re back to clear your own zone.

I’ll point out how below average Murray was .
Because I love watching your tizzy.

He gave up 3 goals a game.
Worse he allowed in back breakers once the pens scored.

I simply pointed out that his playoff performance wasn’t a shock- it’s essentially how he’s played for 2 seasons now.

I’m discussing the play of our goalie.
If that makes you uncomfortable-
Which it clearly does...so much you have to create a false narrative...

Feel free to sit out.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Oh, you rapscallion, you! You totally got me. You were routed on actual points, but you did prevail on the petty part, so congratulations?

BTW, were you the one who was making fun of the guy for having a stroke? Please tell me it wasn’t you.

Whoever it was has lost my respect forever and will not have to worry about any more voluminous responses because they’re obviously too much of an imbecile to understand what I’m saying anyway.

Again though, that’s the type of juvenile petty bullshit people pull whenever they are getting their ass kicked on actual points.

You didn’t make any actual points.

The team plays more responsibly when the defenseman actually plays defense instead of getting caught deep in the offensive zone - turning it over- and giving up odd man rushes.

That he’s empowered and entitled to play selfish- is a huge problem.

His locker room interviews pretty much cemented that for me.

Pens outshot the isles by a decent margin.
They had the second highest % of inclose shots in the playoffs.

But couldn’t sustain pressure since the islanders played with actual discipline in their defensive zone.

The isles played like it was the playoffs
The pens played like it was mid season.

Including -3 letang

 

[dk16000]

I’ve just learned that a lot of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about and every time we lose it’s all Letang’s fault.

We scored three goals in the final three games of that series, two were by Wilson and Gudbranson. And the takeaway for some was that the real problem in Pittsburgh was the defenseman who plays 25-28 minutes per night and saves our ass all the time?

Uh, okay.

That’s certainly not my analysis, but people are free to be as wrong as they choose to be.

I don't think it's all Letang's fault either but I also don't think you are the final voice on all things hockey.

 

[Jakey_John]

If Murray and Letang were any good the Cups would have been made of gold, not silver.

 

[pittdan77]

I can see why everyone is so fed up. It's been like, what, two years since they won a championship? Only four trips to the finals in 13 straight years of making the playoffs and three championships?

Unacceptable.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I don't think it's all Letang's fault either but I also don't think you are the final voice on all things hockey.

Nobody has blamed solely letang nor Murray.

The melodramatic defenders can’t simply acknowledge both played not well...which is all that’s been said.

 

[88Pitt88]

The entire team was below average in the playoffs. Why does Syd get a pass? He was pretty bad himself and made several errant passes in his own end and in the offensive zone. The Pens have rested on their laurels, while the Isles were young and hungry. Harping on individuals solves nothing. The team simply wasn't good enough. Maybe it is time for a new coach and a new motivation. These guys have had alot of success recently and are worn down due to playing so much hockey. It would be hard to maintain a laser focus after conquering the league twice in the last four years.

As DVY pointed out, the Pens were very lucky to repeat as champs in 2017. They were almost always outshot and often outplayed and yet found a way to raise the cup. When you can win the cup and you really aren't at your best, I think it is easy to understand how it could give the team a false sense of how good they might be and how hard they might have to work to win another.

I really think that they do need to concentrate on getting some younger and faster players into the system, which won't be easy considering contracts and cap level. That said, I think changing coaches again could get them to refocus and play more as a team again. I can't wait to see how the front office handles things. Would they consider getting rid of GMJR or Sully? Who will be moved?

My hope is that they can move Kessel, however, I don't think they need to blow this up. I would like them to keep everyone's playoff villians in Letang and Malkin as well. To me, the team needs a new identity that can be established through a new coach. I would like to see Sully removed, and replaced by a guy like Joel Quenneville. I think he could get the guys to buy in and we all know what has transpired almost immediately after the Pens hire a new coach.

I do enjoy reading all these posts and the little arguments wrapped within them. It was disappointing as hell to see the Pens check out this early, but, it does provide for some good discussion for serious fans.

 

[Jakey_John]

I can see why everyone is so fed up. It's been like, what, two years since they won a championship? Only four trips to the finals in 13 straight years of making the playoffs and three championships?

Unacceptable.

There’s no room for rationality right after a Pens season concludes. Don’t you know anything?!

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I don't think it's all Letang's fault either but I also don't think you are the final voice on all things hockey.

I’m not the final voice on anything and I’ve never purported to be. Nobody here is the final voice on anything. These forums are for people to express their opinions, not to render verdicts.

However, the Letang thing is just ridiculous. It’s the same old dumb argument every single time and it always ends with the question, “Then why does he then play 25-30 minutes per night?”

“Well, uh...

D’er, uh...

Ya see, uh...

You suck, DVY! You’re too long-winded (but not wrong) and arrogant (but not wrong), and you think your shirt don’t stink (but not wrong). I really hate you because of all that (and because you’re not wrong).

Boo, hoo, hoo.”

Until you can answer that most basic of questions, there is no credible debate to be had on the matter.

If he was nearly as bad as people always (wrongly) insist, why the hell does he play more than anyone else every single night?

[Jeopardy Music Plays]

/Debate. I’m sorry it just is.

There are so many interesting debates to be had about the state of the Pittsburgh Penguins. What to do about their best defenseman is definitely not one of them.

And people making fun of stroke victims because they’re mad at me or something I’ve written is just beyond the pale. Whoever did that is a scumbag and deserving of scorn from every decent person who posts here.

 

[goalieman]

Never considered myself an expert ...... but if anyone is interested in my analysis/thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs let me know ...... if there is no or minimal interest I'll refrain so as not to waste time ..... either way is fine.

 

[CCHS82]

Never considered myself an expert ...... but if anyone is interested in my analysis/thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs let me know ...... if there is no or minimal interest I'll refrain so as not to waste time ..... either way is fine.

You have been quiet during this playoff season. I, for one, have missed it.

I have always enjoyed and appreciated your analysis. Would like to hear your thoughts not only on Murray but the team and playoffs as well.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

You continue to disgrace yourself over a difference of opinion on the relative quality of a hockey player. Think about that for a second. What on earth are you doing?

 

[Jakey_John]

Never considered myself an expert ...... but if anyone is interested in my analysis/thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs let me know ...... if there is no or minimal interest I'll refrain so as not to waste time ..... either way is fine.

You could be Patrick Roy explaining how every goal was or was not Murray’s fault and people would still not believe you.

 

[88Pitt88]

Never considered myself an expert ...... but if anyone is interested in my analysis/thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs let me know ...... if there is no or minimal interest I'll refrain so as not to waste time ..... either way is fine.

Enjoy talking Pens with you and the others. I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on Murray and curious if you think they should say goodbye to Sully. I don't write all that much but, I do, when I find time, read avery thread that interests me. I am looking forward to reading your thoughts as I have been a Pens fan since I was old enough to understand what hockey is.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Never considered myself an expert ...... but if anyone is interested in my analysis/thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs let me know ...... if there is no or minimal interest I'll refrain so as not to waste time ..... either way is fine.

Absolutely.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Nobody has blamed solely letang nor Murray.

The melodramatic defenders can’t simply acknowledge both played not well...which is all that’s been said.

Yes, but unless Murray makes 1000 saves, you categorize it as "not playing well". Murray finished in the top 10 in save percentage, ahead of guys like, I dunno, Marc Andre Fleury. You make every defeat about him. Of course, it is easy to blame and hard to defend "well he should have made more saves". Yeah, that's friggin brilliant.

As he outplayed by Robin Lehner? Yep. No doubt. But I think some of you have put a standard on MM that is just impossible to reach. The category of he "being lousy the last two years" is wrong. You don't finish in the top 10 of save percentage and play "lousy". Was he lousy in October and November? Absolutely. But if he was lousy then....and to finish in the top 10, he had to be pretty damn good the last 4 months of the season.

I agree he has to find a medium to his game, he has shown inconsistencies, but I also know he isn't 25 yet, and the only two full time goalies under the age of 25 in the top 10 was MM and Vasielevskiy, until Bennington came along.......and now well all three could be bounced in Rd 1.

For those who criticize MM, what is your answer? Another goalie coach? I buy that, I am all in on that, I think he needs a new voice also. Trade him? Okay...... Cut him? Stone him? Bench him for DeSmith?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

One thing to think of before everyone wants to burn it all down and start over, this is shaping up to be one of those years, occasionally the NHL playoffs have a year like this. Maybe, trading Kessel to me is prudent, Maatta too, or moving even a Hornquist, but before we cut it all down, but returning next year's team with some retooling, is the best way.

I would bet the Isles be more of a flash in the pan, their goalies show no pedigree of sustaining a season like this, some of their guys are getting older (they aren't as young as people make them out to be) and this was while I can't qualify fluky when you are dominated, but it is a fluky playoff year.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yes, but unless Murray makes 1000 saves, you categorize it as "not playing well". Murray finished in the top 10 in save percentage, ahead of guys like, I dunno, Marc Andre Fleury. You make every defeat about him. Of course, it is easy to blame and hard to defend "well he should have made more saves". Yeah, that's friggin brilliant.

As he outplayed by Robin Lehner? Yep. No doubt. But I think some of you have put a standard on MM that is just impossible to reach. The category of he "being lousy the last two years" is wrong. You don't finish in the top 10 of save percentage and play "lousy". Was he lousy in October and November? Absolutely. But if he was lousy then....and to finish in the top 10, he had to be pretty damn good the last 4 months of the season.

I agree he has to find a medium to his game, he has shown inconsistencies, but I also know he isn't 25 yet, and the only two full time goalies under the age of 25 in the top 10 was MM and Vasielevskiy, until Bennington came along.......and now well all three could be bounced in Rd 1.

For those who criticize MM, what is your answer? Another goalie coach? I buy that, I am all in on that, I think he needs a new voice also. Trade him? Okay...... Cut him? Stone him? Bench him for DeSmith?

26th in gaa

His stats and Desmith’s are nearly identical.
That’s the problem.
Desmith 91.6% save
Murray 91.9% save
Yet you think that’s good?
He was not good in the playoffs
He has been average the previous two seasons.

He’s injury prone and inconsistent.

The answer is a more consistent goalie to push him and plug in.

 

[goalieman]

I'll post my thoughts about Murray's performance in the playoffs hopefully later today .... want to give it some further reflection and post something coherent if I can .... LOL !