1st, Hayes .979 Flieding % (5 Errors) in NL, no way he's a bust, he's a glove and a damn good one too!
OT: Pirates Ke'Bryan Hayes a bust?
- Thread starter PittPoker
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Fielding % isn't really the way players are judged for their defense these days. Defensive Runs Saved and Outs Above Average are looked at more, albeit they are not perfect either.
I just understand some players are all bat (DH) and some are all glove! He's batting .243 with a career .260! The avg MLB player is batting .243 this year! Ya'll acting like he's batting at the Mendoza Line (.200)!
So, resorting to presenting the facts to win your argument.....
If pirate fans are being honest with themselves, entering next season the following positions are wide open. This base, shortstop, first base, center field, right field. The only reason second base is not included is because they have several players who will eventually solve the spot. This remarkable that a major league team needs that many positions. I am basing this on playoff level performance. The players who are manning these positions presently are not playoff level
Batting average, and only using average, is a horrendous way to evaluate a player.
This thread needs to end. It’s ridiculous.
No he isn’t.
Hes disappointing. But he’s not a bust. A bust is a complete waste. A total minus player. That’s not Hayes.
Thats like 98% of us, so sure.
No. But you’re welcome to stay on your crusade with Poker on this one.
Sorry he is a terrible bust and the Pirates are throwing money away like crazy paying that bum Hayes.
1.0 WAR this year and the absolute worst offensive player in the league. He sucks and is a bust.
He would be dfa’ed if not for that contract
That's just dumb. If the Pirates dfa'd him today he would get claimed by nearly every team in the league. The fact that some of you guys think that a $7 million salary for an MLB player is a lot of money just shows that you've become used to Bob Nutting's cheapness.
This year there are 190 players making more money than Hayes. Considering the percentage of MLB players that aren't yet eligible for arbitration or are only in their first or second year of eligibility so they are unlikely to be making anywhere near that kind of money that's actually way down on the list. He's not being paid like a star, or even close to like a star. If the Pirates pay Hayes every dollar that is left on his contract, including the team option year at the end, and counting what he is making this year, he will still make less over those five seasons than eight guys are making this year alone.
Hayes has been awful this year. There's no doubt about that. In fact just about the only good thing about his play this year is that it brings out comments that are so ridiculous that they at least give you something to laugh about.
Most of us are having a better year than Hayes. Imagine going through life not able to twist and turn. How do you live? How do you sit and watch a movie? Ride on a plane? Sleep at night? I posted 30 pages ago that he’s being managed like a club would manage a 38 year old vet. And now it’s reported by Jason Mackey that he lives his life trying to avoid twisting and turning. This has been blatantly obvious since June. Maybe longer. Why are the Pirates trotting him out there? To me this is malpractice. I understand he’s a generational talent defensively and has shown he is an above average hitter over a pretty large sample size if he’s relatively healthy. What the hell are the Pirates doing. Shut the guy down. This is career threatening.
Maybe that’s their out. Lol. If he retires, they are no longer on the hook for his contract I assume.
I mean, I’m not sure this can be fixed though? There are back problems that just don’t go away no matter what you do.
I agree. Backs end careers. I can’t imagine one off-season fixing things because getting healthy is one thing. But then fixing the swing is another on top of it.
I didn’t answer because it’s irrelevant.
Hayes is having a bad year, especially at the plate. He’s still not a bust. A bust is a guy who never makes the majors or flames out after one or two years. Hayes still has value no matter how frustrating he is at the plate.
Maybe. I would say the contract is a bust though. I know it isn’t huge but in terms of value the pirates are at the point they can get that off the scrap heap. Even if the scrap heap doesn’t work they can get rid of the guy and aren’t stuck with him for five more years.
Because there’s no margin for error anything/anyone that underperforms is magnified a ton for the Pirates. So I’m sure that impacts people’s opinions.
Yeah. It’s Rough if the pirates miss in these. Some of it is nutting, but a lot of it is baseball. The Yankees do this it’s no huge deal, they sign someone else. Pirates can’t
Hayes is as much a bust this year as the others highlighted here:
Name 2024 Salary
Marco Gonzales $12.25M 1-1 4.54ERA
Aroldis Chapman $10.5M
Bryan Reynolds $10.25M
Mitch Keller $5.85M
Isiah Kiner-Falefa $7.5M
Ke'Bryan Hayes $7M .233 Avg 4 HR 25 RBI
Andrew McCutchen $5M .235 Avg
David Bednar $4.15M 5.70ERA
Michael A. Taylor $4M .202 Avg 4 HR 20 RBI
Rowdy Tellez $3.2M
Yasmani Grandal $2.5M .202 Avg 5HR 20 RBI
Connor Joe $2.12M .233 Avg 7HR 33 RBI
Jalen Beeks $1.68M
Ryan Borucki $1.6M
Edward Olivares $1.35M
Ryder Ryan $830k
Hunter Stratton $800k
Joey Bart $770k
Bryan De La Cruz $768k
Johan Oviedo $765k
Colin Holderman $755k
Bailey Falter $755k
Oneil Cruz $755k
Dauri Moreta $755k
Ji Hwan Bae $755k
Jack Suwinski $755k
Jason Delay $755k
Henry Davis $747.5k
Luis Ortiz $747.5k
Carmen Mlodzinski $747.5k
Jared Triolo $745k
Endy Rodríguez $745k
Alika Williams $745k
Josh Walker $740k
Nick Gonzales $740k
Kyle Nicolas $740k
Joshua Palacios $740k
Liover Peguero $740k
Name 2024 Salary
Marco Gonzales $12.25M 1-1 4.54ERA
Aroldis Chapman $10.5M
Bryan Reynolds $10.25M
Mitch Keller $5.85M
Isiah Kiner-Falefa $7.5M
Ke'Bryan Hayes $7M .233 Avg 4 HR 25 RBI
Andrew McCutchen $5M .235 Avg
David Bednar $4.15M 5.70ERA
Michael A. Taylor $4M .202 Avg 4 HR 20 RBI
Rowdy Tellez $3.2M
Yasmani Grandal $2.5M .202 Avg 5HR 20 RBI
Connor Joe $2.12M .233 Avg 7HR 33 RBI
Jalen Beeks $1.68M
Ryan Borucki $1.6M
Edward Olivares $1.35M
Ryder Ryan $830k
Hunter Stratton $800k
Joey Bart $770k
Bryan De La Cruz $768k
Johan Oviedo $765k
Colin Holderman $755k
Bailey Falter $755k
Oneil Cruz $755k
Dauri Moreta $755k
Ji Hwan Bae $755k
Jack Suwinski $755k
Jason Delay $755k
Henry Davis $747.5k
Luis Ortiz $747.5k
Carmen Mlodzinski $747.5k
Jared Triolo $745k
Endy Rodríguez $745k
Alika Williams $745k
Josh Walker $740k
Nick Gonzales $740k
Kyle Nicolas $740k
Joshua Palacios $740k
Liover Peguero $740k
Those guys aren’t signed to long contracts. You can dump them. You can’t with Hayes
It's a lot more on Nutting than it is on baseball. The Pirates absolutely COULD afford to eat a contract like that. But we all know that they absolutely WON'T do it.
If we were talking about someone like Mike Trout, yeah, OK, the Pirates couldn't eat that deal and get nothing or next to nothing out of it. But Trout is getting paid more than five times as much as Hayes. If Nutting's financial situation is so precarious that $7 million per year completely ruins him then he's in a lot of trouble.
Of course that isn't the reality of the situation. Luckily for him. Not so much for us.
No.
And if it’s as open and shut as you say, I’m sure it would be easy to find an objective way to show that. But I remain unconvinced.
I think Jason Kendall was pretty bad. Like really bad. Nowhere near the Hayes contract.
And the Hayes contract is bad only because he’s hurt. And are we going to start post threads about players who have chronic injuries being busts all the time now?
Help me out as I’m drawing a blank. Did the Pirates know he had a chronic back issue when they signed him to the modest contract he’s on? If they did know, then yeah there’s some blame and scorn that should be thrown their way. But also in this economic system, the Pirates are often put in position to gamble on players and sign them before they blow up and go to the Yankees or Dodgers. So in that respect they can be let off the hook.
But this current situation warrants some criticism of the Pirates. They’ve known about his back. Why did they wait so long to get a guy like IKF? Why didn’t they shut down Hayes at the all star break? Or a week later? The dude has compressed disks. They’ve known this. They should not have been trotting him out there. If he needs surgery he should have gone under the knife a month ago, if not earlier. And now he’s shut down for the year. He won’t be ready for spring training. That’s my prediction. Or we may not see him for a year. I’m sure that makes you happy. Lol. But Cherington and Shelty should be shown the door.
