OT: Pirates trade Melancon
- Thread starter marinomd
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Melancon is not as overpowering as Chapman but it looks like we got nowhere close in return compared to what the yanks got for him. BMTIB strikes again!
Based on what little I've seen so far the pundits have praised the Pirates. Both are flame throwing lefties and Rivero is supposed to have a devastating change up.
Stats aren't great right now - no getting around that. But plus stuff with years of team control.
And make no mistake - Melancon was gone after his year.
Stats aren't great right now - no getting around that. But plus stuff with years of team control.
And make no mistake - Melancon was gone after his year.
Rivero's fine. Lefty reliever who has hit 100 MPH, great changeup, only 25 years old, controlled through 2021. Peripherals are actually pretty damn good -- not that much worse than Melancon's and better than everybody else in the bullpen. ERA should regress.
Hearn's a 21 year old lefthander in low-A who has also hit 100 MPH and fits what they tend to like in pitchers (athletic, projectable).
It's fair return for 3-months of a closer.
Then why not move him or non-tender him this past offseason?
So, the fans should also give up on this year, the Pirates did before it even started, and that's a fact jack. To just give up on a season when teams in our situation are still trying, tells me what I know is 100 true.
I was not sure if we should have been big buyers, but didn't want us to be sellers either at this point. Seven Springs need new lifts or something
I was not sure if we should have been big buyers, but didn't want us to be sellers either at this point. Seven Springs need new lifts or something
Closer is the most overrated position in baseball and Melancon was the most overrated player at that overrated position. His save numbers were good but he rarely just came in and nailed it down without drama.
People comparing him to Chapman need to get real. Chapman is a lights out closer. Melancon is a fingers crossed closer.
Please stop with the "raised the white flag" and "giving up on the season" nonsense. The guy wasn't that good. Frankly I'm glad he's gone. I'm sick of seeing him come in and routinely put guys on base before barely squirming out with a nail biter save.
No problem with the deal. He was gone after this season anyway. Watson or Feliz can be as just as effective, if not more.
People comparing him to Chapman need to get real. Chapman is a lights out closer. Melancon is a fingers crossed closer.
Please stop with the "raised the white flag" and "giving up on the season" nonsense. The guy wasn't that good. Frankly I'm glad he's gone. I'm sick of seeing him come in and routinely put guys on base before barely squirming out with a nail biter save.
No problem with the deal. He was gone after this season anyway. Watson or Feliz can be as just as effective, if not more.
Keith Law's write-up:
Pirates get good value dealing closer to Nationals
The Nationals have had some trouble in the ninth inning this month, leading them to be very reactive in trying to acquire someone with experience in that role to replace Jonathan Papelbon. They missed out on Aroldis Chapman, butMark Melancon is a solid enough option if you've decided that you absolutely want a Proven Closer™. He's a sinkerballer and a strike-thrower, not your traditional closer throwing 100 mph but avoiding the walk and the long ball to keep runs off the board. Since the Pirates acquired him before the 2013 season , he's thrown 260 innings for them with just 39 unintentional walks and only 9 home runs allowed.
But there are some warning signs on Melancon, like a drop in his ground-ball rate this year and the loss of over 1.5 mph on his fastball since he got to Pittsburgh. He's been an effective one-inning reliever but at 31 with small red flags and a history of injuries when younger, he's not someone I'd hold on to for the long term. The Pirates have other options for the ninth inning and flipping him and some portion of the $3.2 million or so he's still owed for this year is a better plan than holding him, since he'd almost certainly accept a qualifying offer with that figure estimated to be over $16.5 million this winter.
I think the Nationals already had enough late-game relief options to succeed this year without spending talent to acquire a Proven Closer™. Shawn Kelleyhas handled some save situations, converting two opportunities in the last two days, and with plus control and a strikeout rate near 40 percent I'd let him continue to work in those high-leverage spots. Felipe Rivero, heading to the Pirates in this trade, is one such option. Reynaldo Lopez, who hit 100 mph in the Futures Game and whose fastball regularly sits 95-98 mph pitching as a starter with a power curveball, looks more like a reliever to me in delivery. Lopez has the present control to work in high-leverage spots; in his one big-league start this year he faced 25 guys, and he struck out 28.5 percent of batters he's faced as a starter in Double-A and Triple-A this year. Throw in Oliver Perezand you've got a pretty solid relief corps without having to trade assets to get someone with lots of saves. And Papelbon … well, he can do something, like maybe work in middle relief, or make sure the bullpen hand sanitizer dispenser is full.
The Pirates did extremely well here. Felipe Rivero is a hard-throwing lefty who has been very effective out of the bullpen for the Nats over the last year-plus, although this year he's shown a bizarre reverse platoon split. It's the first time in his pro career he's struggled with left-handed hitters and it's not likely to continue. Rivero has three pitches -- a mid-90s fastball, hard slider, and very hard changeup -- so he should be able to get hitters on both sides of the plate out. His peripherals are strong this year despite the 4.53 ERA. Rivero gave up more than half of the runs he's allowed this year in a two-week span in June after he pitched in 15 games in the month of May, but Dusty Baker eased up on his usage of Rivero since then and the results have improved. Rivero has five years of team control left and will be super-two eligible after 2017 and I don't think he's far away from being a Melancon replacement.
The prospect coming back is lefty Taylor Hearn, an enormous kid at 6-foot-5 with a shoe size of 17. He's been throwing up to 100 mph with a loose arm and great extension out front, while also throwing more strikes this year and striking out a third of the batters he's faced as a 21-year-old in Low-A. The Nats took him in the fifth round last June out of Oklahoma Baptist, an NAIA school transitioning to Division I, as a 20-year-old junior, and I think he can move quickly as a dedicated reliever. He can't repeat his delivery enough to start yet, so if the Pirates try to move him into a starting role, he then becomes more of a long-term project.
Pirates get good value dealing closer to Nationals
The Nationals have had some trouble in the ninth inning this month, leading them to be very reactive in trying to acquire someone with experience in that role to replace Jonathan Papelbon. They missed out on Aroldis Chapman, butMark Melancon is a solid enough option if you've decided that you absolutely want a Proven Closer™. He's a sinkerballer and a strike-thrower, not your traditional closer throwing 100 mph but avoiding the walk and the long ball to keep runs off the board. Since the Pirates acquired him before the 2013 season , he's thrown 260 innings for them with just 39 unintentional walks and only 9 home runs allowed.
But there are some warning signs on Melancon, like a drop in his ground-ball rate this year and the loss of over 1.5 mph on his fastball since he got to Pittsburgh. He's been an effective one-inning reliever but at 31 with small red flags and a history of injuries when younger, he's not someone I'd hold on to for the long term. The Pirates have other options for the ninth inning and flipping him and some portion of the $3.2 million or so he's still owed for this year is a better plan than holding him, since he'd almost certainly accept a qualifying offer with that figure estimated to be over $16.5 million this winter.
I think the Nationals already had enough late-game relief options to succeed this year without spending talent to acquire a Proven Closer™. Shawn Kelleyhas handled some save situations, converting two opportunities in the last two days, and with plus control and a strikeout rate near 40 percent I'd let him continue to work in those high-leverage spots. Felipe Rivero, heading to the Pirates in this trade, is one such option. Reynaldo Lopez, who hit 100 mph in the Futures Game and whose fastball regularly sits 95-98 mph pitching as a starter with a power curveball, looks more like a reliever to me in delivery. Lopez has the present control to work in high-leverage spots; in his one big-league start this year he faced 25 guys, and he struck out 28.5 percent of batters he's faced as a starter in Double-A and Triple-A this year. Throw in Oliver Perezand you've got a pretty solid relief corps without having to trade assets to get someone with lots of saves. And Papelbon … well, he can do something, like maybe work in middle relief, or make sure the bullpen hand sanitizer dispenser is full.
The Pirates did extremely well here. Felipe Rivero is a hard-throwing lefty who has been very effective out of the bullpen for the Nats over the last year-plus, although this year he's shown a bizarre reverse platoon split. It's the first time in his pro career he's struggled with left-handed hitters and it's not likely to continue. Rivero has three pitches -- a mid-90s fastball, hard slider, and very hard changeup -- so he should be able to get hitters on both sides of the plate out. His peripherals are strong this year despite the 4.53 ERA. Rivero gave up more than half of the runs he's allowed this year in a two-week span in June after he pitched in 15 games in the month of May, but Dusty Baker eased up on his usage of Rivero since then and the results have improved. Rivero has five years of team control left and will be super-two eligible after 2017 and I don't think he's far away from being a Melancon replacement.
The prospect coming back is lefty Taylor Hearn, an enormous kid at 6-foot-5 with a shoe size of 17. He's been throwing up to 100 mph with a loose arm and great extension out front, while also throwing more strikes this year and striking out a third of the batters he's faced as a 21-year-old in Low-A. The Nats took him in the fifth round last June out of Oklahoma Baptist, an NAIA school transitioning to Division I, as a 20-year-old junior, and I think he can move quickly as a dedicated reliever. He can't repeat his delivery enough to start yet, so if the Pirates try to move him into a starting role, he then becomes more of a long-term project.
Well said...
Getting a closer has not been a problem for the Pirates in the Huntington era.
Melancon, Grilli and Hanrahan, have made the All-Star team for the Pirates. all of them were nobodies before they came to Pittsburgh. Melancon is 31 years old. His stuff is not great enough for him to be an effective closer in his mid 30's. He will ask for a ton of money. He's not worth that. I'm glad we trade him before he walks for nothing.
Jeff Passan - Don't be fooled by Felipe Rivero's ERA. He's a lefty who throws 100 with a ++ changeup. Complete death on righties. Will be great reliever.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN - Melancon is going to be a free agent at year's end; Pirates get five more years of control with Rivero. Plus a prospect. Makes sense for PIT
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal - NL hitter: “2 mos. of Melancon for five yrs of Rivero? What a deal for Pirates. Rivero has all stuff you need.” Rivera, Hearn both hit 100.
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It's a salary dump in that there's no way on God's green earth they were going to pay him what he'd have likely commanded on the open market. This team this year is going nowhere. Better that they get something (hopefully) for him than let him walk for nothing at year's end.
So, since when do we accept dumping salaries is the Nutting best quality ? They can kiss my azz, I'm glad I'm not a useful idiot anymore
Of course it's not a salary dump, only a moron would think so
Just in case anyone hadn't figured out that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Teams like the Pirates make excuses and reasons why the closer isn't important, like lemmings Walk and Brown. Teams that want to win get the best closers they can find, hope you sheep can differentiate between the two.
You only get lucky with this so many times, see starters this year, then it comes back to bite you. We shall see ....
You only get lucky with this so many times, see starters this year, then it comes back to bite you. We shall see ....
Not a salary dump.
Aramis Ramirez was a salary dump. He had a multiyear contract that they didn't want to pay and gave him away for nothing.
As a previous poster stated, he was only owed 2.5 million the rest of the year. That's it. How can it be a salary dump if there's no salary to dump????
It was a business decision. They asked themselves; Is Melancon worth what he will be asking for to retain him? The answer is no way. So they did what they needed to do. You pay guys like Chapman top dollar.
Only the low IQ yinzer mind would conclude this to be a dump.
Aramis Ramirez was a salary dump. He had a multiyear contract that they didn't want to pay and gave him away for nothing.
As a previous poster stated, he was only owed 2.5 million the rest of the year. That's it. How can it be a salary dump if there's no salary to dump????
It was a business decision. They asked themselves; Is Melancon worth what he will be asking for to retain him? The answer is no way. So they did what they needed to do. You pay guys like Chapman top dollar.
Only the low IQ yinzer mind would conclude this to be a dump.
No, the Pirates don't want to pay him when he is due, so they took the best way out for a cheap owner , agree ?
We should have got rid of AM , or we should have tried , he is the one we can steal some ready players. I know I inow, can't touch AM, he is a GDO in Yinzerville
Wrong once again. I explained to you what is going on. You're to dense to understand. The low IQ yinzer mind says to throw away money instead of investing wisely. Haranhan was also a dump, right? Grilli was also a dump, right?
Drink another Iron City and complain about all Pittsburgh sports like a good yinzer...
This cheap owner is also paying some of Melancon salary this year so that the Pirates could get better prospects in the trade.
Does the trade make the Pirates better this year yes or no? I understand investing in the future, but when are they ever going to go for it like the Blue Jays did last year? Isn't the idea to try and win it all? For once I'd like to see ownership and management go all in. If they still fail ok, but atleast they made the effort.
Hey, the Pirates are always investing for next year or few years down the road. What is amazing, sheep been buying this 20 year plan, not once but twice, and I don't know what I'm talking about. Lmao
I understand what you are saying. Your point is well taken. However the Pirates have other options for a legit closer; Watson and Feliz. Feliz was a very effective closer for the Rangers before he hurt his arm. The other teams looking for a closer had no options.
Whether the Pirates win or lose this year will depend on players who have not performed to expectations; Liriano, Kang, McCuthen and to a lesser extent, Cole...
1979, last time we were relevant, a blimp in early 90s was also a decent run, and we been rebuilding since. How many times have you all gave a pass on trades, only to see good players leave, for mostly crap in the end, honestly ?
Give the cheap WVU loving owner and terrible GM this year a pass, blame players, wow, did you see our opening day staff, that was a LOSER out of the gate
I'm not a baseball guy,
So let me ask....how many games does your closer win for you?
You're sweating a guy who pitches an inning and a half only when you're already winning ?
Stop it.
So let me ask....how many games does your closer win for you?
You're sweating a guy who pitches an inning and a half only when you're already winning ?
Stop it.
Have any of you complainers watched Melancon pitch lately? Recall the back to back blown saves? Notice him consistently put men on base and get into jams?
He.isn't.that.good.
However far the Pirates go this year they can do it with or without Melancon. It's not a player dump or a salary dump when you're unloading someone who isn't that valuable.
Some of you act like we just dealt Mariano Rivera in his prime. Melancon is not a difference maker. We have other guys who can pitch just as effectively.
He.isn't.that.good.
However far the Pirates go this year they can do it with or without Melancon. It's not a player dump or a salary dump when you're unloading someone who isn't that valuable.
Some of you act like we just dealt Mariano Rivera in his prime. Melancon is not a difference maker. We have other guys who can pitch just as effectively.
If you want to rip the Bucs for being cheap that's fair game, but this isn't that move. This is a good baseball trade for now and for the future. Melancon had highly inflated value and others can fill his role.
The move the screamed "same old Pirates" was when they didn't re-sign JA Happ. That was the time to be angry at Nutting's penny pinching.
The move the screamed "same old Pirates" was when they didn't re-sign JA Happ. That was the time to be angry at Nutting's penny pinching.
An inning. Not even an inning and a half. It was a trade that they had to make. It isn't popular amongst the bourgeoisie such as Del and other mouth breathers, but it is the right move for this franchise.
It's disappointing that many can't understand the value in this trade. FWIW, I've always liked Mark Melancon too. I'll miss him. But to NOT make this deal would have been irresponsible.
When is the time to deal Andrew M? Cause you know it's coming , and when is Cole up, cause he will be traded then as well, all for 2023. Pirates time is never now, it's always next year. Mark M trade isn't a big deal to be honest, it's just typical Pirates, and we are sellers always, don't believe different, we do the JOBS, get paid well for it
