OT: PSU and Rasir Bolton
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That’s going to be a really bad one for Chambers. He claims he was saying “I want to loosen the noose around your neck” in the context of giving the player a game off to reset and clear his head, but it’s a totally inexcusable thing to say to anyone, and his apparent response (and the school’s) has been similarly tone-deaf. This is significantly worse than the Narduzzi stuff from a few weeks ago, to the extent that it could very well be fire-able.
Continues to make me feel very fortunate to have the basketball coach that we have.
Continues to make me feel very fortunate to have the basketball coach that we have.
Agree that It is worse.
And Duzz offered a legit apology and everyone moved past it.
Chambers had the same chance and blew it.
Agreed on all counts. I generally like Pat, and think he’s done a pretty respectable job pulling uphill at one of the toughest schools to build a program at in major conference basketball.
But the statement, the subsequent response (before it even went public), and the current landscape makes this a massive, massive, massive mistake, and if Pat Chambers were Pitt’s basketball coach right now, I’d think he should be gone.
Their PR machine tentacles are probably bigger and more far reaching than anyone's including John Gotti. My guess is you won't hear a peep from anyone with a real voice.
They are, and have been, a tone deaf athletic department and school in many ways. I doubt much comes of this though it should be much more of an issue given that they went through internal steps and basically brushed it aside.
Chambers mysteriously kept his job there for many years and now he actually won a few games. I just doubt that they part ways with him.
The original comment was completely innocent IMO with the context it was used. But yeah the follow up and lack of apology is IMO, the issue.
That being said, we continue down these paths, white people are going to avoid black people and avoid talking to them for fear of saying something wrong. I already have heard of an HR person (not my company) say they are starting to steer clear of people of color because of the potential HR issues and lawsuits that can follow.
People say dumb things. People make mistakes. You got to give them some rope (okay, intentionally bad reference to prove a point) but we can't just look to always run away or cancel someone everytime someone says something that offends you or is not politically correct.
We need to give room for people to be able to talk to each other (honestly lol) without having to walk on eggshells. Because if I can't talk to you fairly naturally, I am likely avoiding you.
That being said, we continue down these paths, white people are going to avoid black people and avoid talking to them for fear of saying something wrong. I already have heard of an HR person (not my company) say they are starting to steer clear of people of color because of the potential HR issues and lawsuits that can follow.
People say dumb things. People make mistakes. You got to give them some rope (okay, intentionally bad reference to prove a point) but we can't just look to always run away or cancel someone everytime someone says something that offends you or is not politically correct.
We need to give room for people to be able to talk to each other (honestly lol) without having to walk on eggshells. Because if I can't talk to you fairly naturally, I am likely avoiding you.
I agree with you that the major problem here specifically is the process; that they went through a situation, no apology was given and instead it appears that the player was told that he needed to adjust to the coach's language and then was ostracized in ways from the team.
But, just maybe, a coach that recruits primarily black players, should just not refer in discussions with them to nooses. That probably would be an easy solution. And respectful of the person across from them.
We need to communicate with each other but I also think we are in this era of over-communication. Some would argue that there is no such thing. But, often times, like here, people just need to admit fault, apologize, shut up and move forward.
I agree with you that people say very dumb things and I said a little while back that Narduzzi clearly says dumb things. But, context is key, a noose generally to a black person has a very direct historical reference. So, just do not say it, keep the answer easy. And, if you say it and it comes up as an issue, do not run from it, admit it, apologize, and just do not say it moving forward (and treat the person/player fairly).
Yeah, I hear you. It was the follow up here that was obviously really bad, but hey it is Penn State. It is what they do. I am just saying we are reinventing word meanings. Noose meant something choking you around a neck. Now it is a definitive derogatory racist symbol. At some point, what also is next. What word or phrase will be next?
I mean, we are at the point were they are no longer referring to "Master" bedroom in real estate. I don't care if that was the term used in slavery, it has not such connotations in real estate. I am not very empathetic here.
Saying it is ill-advised. But not apologizing for it because he's "from the North" is pure arrogance.
He could have apologized, talked to the parents and students, made a donation to the NAACP or Southern Poverty Law Center, and learned a little about the world and the young men he leads. He didn't have the courage to do that.
He could have apologized, talked to the parents and students, made a donation to the NAACP or Southern Poverty Law Center, and learned a little about the world and the young men he leads. He didn't have the courage to do that.
I think it's one thing if he said "loosen the rope around your neck." I think that's a common enough phrase that an older white guy could get a pass for not thinking through the implications. FWIW that's what I always figured happened with Duzz. Guy probably does do some implicitly racist/questionable stuff just because of his upbringing. The nice thing about Duzz is he owned it and is growing. That's all we can ask for. In this case, using noose is too explicit to look past.
To your larger point, I generally agree that we need to give people some room for growth. I think the problem from my viewpoint is too often people don't want to grow. They get told their language/behavior/whatever is offensive and instead of growing, they dig their heels in and denounce the PC culture or whatever.
Also, I couldn't help but wander over to BWI. The first response to someone posting this?
"He is soft. Long story short he is a snowflake. You can’t win with losers like that. ISU was 12-20 last year... losing this POS is the reason we became top 10."
"He is soft. Long story short he is a snowflake. You can’t win with losers like that. ISU was 12-20 last year... losing this POS is the reason we became top 10."
I say they fire him and hire Bobby Knight. He would never use that terminology. He would just strangle the player.
Is it bad that’s better than what I thought the cult would be saying?
Black athletes are coming out of the woodwork with every grievance they have experienced in their lives. Years long complaints, never made at the time, are getting people fired today.
It is the me too movement all over again.
It will end, just like the me too movement, when the racial complaint is made against a prominent Democrat politician.
They will sacrifice an Al Franken, but not a Joe Biden.
Why would any old white guy think it’s cool to say loosen the noose around the neck of a 19 year old black man? Even rope is still terrible. And the nonpology (yes I’m starting that word) and terrible job by the athletic department just compounds it. If it were ANY other school I’d expect them to make a change, since Rasir’s father has been a coach for Team Loaded for so many years and has deep ties there and PSU has made strong in roads in VA. But since it’s PSU, will probably get another extension.
And like with the metoo movement, good. People need to be held accountable for their bigotry. Particularly if it's an old white dude making millions off the labor of his predominately black students.
Absolutely. The black people as well as the women were oppressed and threatened to varying degrees. I couldn’t be happier this is all coming out in the open.
I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t be...but if I really push myself I can come up with a wild guess or three.
Lot of white people kept their mouths shut too. Sexual abuse in hockey, gymnastics, swimming and goodness knows what else.
Fair point. If you are told this is offensive and continue to do it to be pigheaded, well you are not just not growing, but regressing as being a baby. Sort of like a guy in office right now.
You do not think the me too movement went too far?
You think what Justice Kavanaugh had to experience was appropriate?
When did it happen? Where did it happen? How did you get there? How did you get home? Do you have anyone who can verify your claims?
You think it is appropriate that a Boeing exec was forced out for something he said 35 years ago?
Because I see and call out what has transformed into excesses, you want to hint I am sexist or racist?
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Yeah...and that top 10 served them well didn't it. They managed to parlay that top 10 start without that "loser snowflake" into a fantastic "others receiving votes" finish.
It's an issue that when these awakenings happen, it also becomes weaponized. It is when it becomes weaponized and we look in every crevice and crack for some violation or moment of stupidity that it goes too far. You know, like finding someone tweeting or a facebook post when they were 15-16 and then wanting to ruin them.
Our fundamentalism on both sides is just pulling us apart like a cheap suit.
I don't think that the last few posts are really on point. Chambers said this recently, and based on the reporting and meetings, everything is well-documented.
Yeah it is pretty funny, he has a good, experienced team, that made it top the top 10.....that crashed and burned like the Hindenburg.
That is just ridiculously racist. You do see that don’t you? “I am too irresponsible to talk to people without offending them so I will avoid it.” Good Jesus God!!!
It is not me who did that. It is not "ridiculously racist" as it is fearful. You see that don't you? I don't what I do today that is going offend someone tomorrow. Can't people sometimes just let things go? I hate country music and it offends me. That doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it.
I didn't say a word about you. But the fact that you jumped to me inferring you were racist plus your original point is awfully telling isn't it.
To answer your question - I applaud sexual assault survivors and victims of racism for having the courage to speak out and I think it's a good thing that they feel enabled to do so.
ETA: I don't know how anyone can watch how issues like sexual assault are treated by the media and the justice system (the coverage and handling of Brock Turner, for example) and conclude anything but the fact that the deck is immensely stacked against the assaulted party.
I can understand not liking country music but it offends you? Talk about a snowflake
This is such a ridiculous take.
No one says "noose around your neck" in the course of casual conversation, let alone with a black person, and if you and it was an accident, all you have to do is sincerely apologize. Black people don't want to dislike you forever because of something that you said. If they see you actually didn't mean it, it won't be a problem.
Nobody has to walk on eggshells around black people. If you care about them and treat them fairly, they'll notice. But to act like it's black peoples' fault for getting upset at the word "noose," when people are still getting lynched in 2020, is absurd.
I am just saying it is dangerous where we weaponize this, and it is not even the subject or victim that want "dox" people, it is do gooders who were not even involved. Let people settle these things first. Now if it continues, then it is different. That's with evil intent, not an accident, it is intentional to provide some harm. That's all I am saying.
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