OT: Quips to 5A

[Sean Miller Fan]

That’s not the bottom line…..not at all. Public taxes often use private business for services and projects. The real bottom line is for those tax dollars to provide an education to children. Not create pension funds, not to build stadiums, and certainly not to be wasted on a system that is failing these children.

Public taxes use private businesses for services they do not provide. Your town has a public school. Every land-owning citizen pays into this school for the greater good of the town. They provide the service of educating the children of the town. You are too poor to move into a good school district, so your solution is to steal the public's money so you can send your kid to a school that you feel will provide a better education. You cannot steal public money for a service they already provide. Here are your choices:

a) move
b) run for school board and fix the problems
c) run for mayor and have your town withdraw from the school district

 

[jivecat]

Public taxes use private businesses for services they do not provide. Your town has a public school. Every land-owning citizen pays into this school for the greater good of the town. They provide the service of educating the children of the town. You are too poor to move into a good school district, so your solution is to steal the public's money so you can send your kid to a school that you feel will provide a better education. You cannot steal public money for a service they already provide. Here are your choices:

a) move
b) run for school board and fix the problems
c) run for mayor and have your town withdraw from the school district

My town had a sanitation department at one time. They determined that it was better run, more efficient, and cost less money by allowing private businesses to handle the service. This is the point we are at with public education. The three options you listed are fine but they are not the best way to improve the Public education system in Pennsylvania. Why not put the school choice option to a vote? That seems fair. Given that 71% of people support school choice/vouchers, we should let families decide for themselves.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

My town had a sanitation department at one time. They determined that it was better run, more efficient, and cost less money by allowing private businesses to handle the service. This is the point we are at with public education. The three options you listed are fine but they are not the best way to improve the Public education system in Pennsylvania. Why not put the school choice option to a vote? That seems fair. Given that 71% of people support school choice/vouchers, we should let families decide for themselves.

"This is the point we are at with public education."

????

Parents at the rich schools, and I'm sure even at some of the middle class schools are thrilled with public education. Maybe not all, but most. Are parents at the school districts with very high rates of poverty happy with public education? Probably not as the local school district gets the blame for their child of family's inadequacies. Its never the fault of the child or family. There's always someone else to blame.

As for putting school choice to a vote, we still live in a democracy, at least for now. Elect lawmakers who will abolish public education/school districts or run yourself. Or if you cant do it from a statewide level, run locally for mayor or elect someone who will have your town secede from the local district and then go to court to fight the lawsuits that come with that. You have options. But you want to take the easy way out and steal money from the public/school district because you dont like it. As long as it exists and your town feels like its the best option to provide its children an education, you cant steal their money.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Do you think there is ANY correlation at all between IQ and career earnings?

I don't know, almost impossible to answer. Maybe, but nowhere near the scale that you think. I'd say environment and upbringing are more important to future earnings than IQ.

This is turning into a trading places argument between the Duke brothers. We can agree to disagree.

My wife and I always joke that some of the smartest people we run into are folks bartending at craft breweries. Rarely are any of these folks stupid, and I can bet they aren't your high earners.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't know, almost impossible to answer.

Its not. First of all, its basic common sense. It takes high intelligence for many high paying fields (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc). And every study has shown there is a correlation. Although the bartenders at your craft breweries may be low-earning geniuses, when you are looking at a population as a whole, they would be outliers.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Its not. First of all, its basic common sense. It takes high intelligence for many high paying fields (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc). And every study has shown there is a correlation. Although the bartenders at your craft breweries may be low-earning geniuses, when you are looking at a population as a whole, they would be outliers.

And how on earth would you know if a kid who grows up dirt poor, with nobody pushing and tutoring him in school, has the mental capacity to be a doctor or engineer? Common sense says you can't know.

 

[jivecat]

W

"This is the point we are at with public education."

????

Parents at the rich schools, and I'm sure even at some of the middle class schools are thrilled with public education. Maybe not all, but most. Are parents at the school districts with very high rates of poverty happy with public education? Probably not as the local school district gets the blame for their child of family's inadequacies. Its never the fault of the child or family. There's always someone else to blame.

As for putting school choice to a vote, we still live in a democracy, at least for now. Elect lawmakers who will abolish public education/school districts or run yourself. Or if you cant do it from a statewide level, run locally for mayor or elect someone who will have your town secede from the local district and then go to court to fight the lawsuits that come with that. You have options. But you want to take the easy way out and steal money from the public/school district because you dont like it. As long as it exists and your town feels like its the best option to provide its children an education, you cant steal their money.

What are you talking about? None of that needs to take place. It is a budget issue at the state level. The PA Senate passed a $100 million dollar initiative that will allow students from the poorest districts to attend private schools. Even Governor Shapiro proposed a voucher system which was later defeated in the House. You can't "steal" money that is being used for the purpose it was intended.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Rich people promote education more than poor people. It's important, it's looked at positively, and it's socially acceptable to be nerdy. Rich people get their kids tutors to help them with math, english, etc.. It has much less to do with mental capacity than it does your surroundings.

I can guarantee you that someone who can rip an engine apart and put it back together is a lot smarter than many of the parents in my district, even if they don't know which your to use in a sentence.

Well that's a problem that I truly believe politicians and industry leaders are recognizing. That smart, talented kids who were just steered towards college or McDonalds, that skilled trades and trade schools were not just an acceptable path. Now we realize they are a needed segment and one that people can make a really good wage and raise a family. So it is good to see people recognize that. It has long been stigmatized as a "loser".

Where I feel for them as they get in their careers for 10-20 years and in many cases know and understand the business much moreso than their managers, they are blocked from management positions because they lack a "college degree". We need to get past the stigma that a college degree indicates intelligence and ability.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And how on earth would you know if a kid who grows up dirt poor, with nobody pushing and tutoring him in school, has the mental capacity to be a doctor or engineer? Common sense says you can't know.

Public schools have gifted programs. If the kid has a very high IQ, he will be tested for Gifted very early on because he will stand out at that school in the early grades, especially. Are there some highly intelligent kids who slip through the cracks? Absolutely. We arent going to know about these kids in every case. Maybe they are the craft brew geniuses you speak of. But every study shows there's a direct correlation between IQ and income. So you are talking about outliers. I realize you want to blame the teachers for poor schools' standardized test scores but I assure you, the low scores mostly due to genes they inherited from their parents.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

W

What are you talking about? None of that needs to take place. It is a budget issue at the state level. The PA Senate passed a $100 million dollar initiative that will allow students from the poorest districts to attend private schools. Even Governor Shapiro proposed a voucher system which was later defeated in the House. You can't "steal" money that is being used for the purpose it was intended.

Stealing money is a partisan political issue. One side wants to steal from the public or have the public pay for their private schools (this is pretty ironic BTW). The other side believes that public money should only fund public schools. So keep voting for lawmakers who want to steal from the public. They can pass a law and your neighbors can pay for your private school and it will be "legal stealing" at that point. I have already said this. You have several different options. Probably the easiest of which is if PA passes a law through all 3 branches, which they haven't done.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Public schools have gifted programs. If the kid has a very high IQ, he will be tested for Gifted very early on because he will stand out at that school in the early grades, especially. Are there some highly intelligent kids who slip through the cracks? Absolutely. We arent going to know about these kids in every case. Maybe they are the craft brew geniuses you speak of. But every study shows there's a direct correlation between IQ and income. So you are talking about outliers. I realize you want to blame the teachers for poor schools' standardized test scores but I assure you, the low scores mostly due to genes they inherited from their parents.

Ok Adolph. You aren't special and neither are your kids.

It's referred to as GATE now, and I have two kids in the program. You don't need to tell me how it works and how kids are identified. I can assure you upbringing plays a large part in it, much more than their "demographic."

Oh, and I never blamed any teachers. I blame administration, school boards, and elected politicians. Probably the same folks you vote for. Keep them dumb and dependent, because they can't do any better.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Ok Adolph. You aren't special and neither are your kids.

It's referred to as GATE now, and I have two kids in the program. You don't need to tell me how it works and how kids are identified. I can assure you upbringing plays a large part in it, much more than their "demographic."

Oh, and I never blamed any teachers. I blame administration, school boards, and elected politicians. Probably the same folks you vote for. Keep them dumb and dependent, because they can't do any better.

Well, one of my kids is in Gifted and has to go into a classroom one grade higher for math. One of the only kids to have to do that, and in one of the best school districts in the state. Takes after the old man. Wasnt aware it was called GATE though.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Well, one of my kids is in Gifted and has to go into a classroom one grade higher for math. One of the only kids to have to do that, and in one of the best school districts in the state. Takes after the old man. Wasnt aware it was called GATE though.

Skipping a year of math isn't uncommon. It happens with most GATE kids, and even kids that aren't in GATE. We have a handful that skip 2 years of math and are done with AP Calc in 10th grade. Most of these kids were in Montessori schools from age 3-6. Had math and school pounded into them from very young ages.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Skipping a year of math isn't uncommon. It happens with most GATE kids, and even kids that aren't in GATE.

That's what I figured so I asked how many qualified. It was only 3 from that grade. But more have qualified throughout the years so I think it may be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 now. In this school, its pretty uncommon to skip a year of math because the math is already advanced as it is. They are already about a grade ahead of other schools.