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OT: Steelers chances of signing JuJu and/or James

Zeldas Open Roof

Zeldas Open Roof

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both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
 
I don't know, but I'd rather have Dupree than both of them. I'm guessing that's not realistic.

There are so many stupid teams out there. I imagine one of them will price us out of signing JuJu. Not as sure about Conner. They might be able to come to terms with him for an amount that isn't too high. I certainly wouldn't get carried away with paying any running back (outside of a very select few), much less one as hurt as often as he is.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...
I'd take JuJu over Conner, Conner is doing ok now, but he gets injured too often. When I'm talking Steelers, I don't care what school the players are from, the decision is always STEELERS FIRST over keeping a Pitt guy.
 
Pitt79 said:
I'd take JuJu over Conner, Conner is doing ok now, but he gets injured too often. When I'm talking Steelers, I don't care what school the players are from, the decision is always STEELERS FIRST over keeping a Pitt guy.
Click to expand...
yeah but leaving James out of it, Ju Ju really hasnt done much without AB. so again, you sign him to a contract that's comparable to a good but not great #2. Lets use Tyler Boyd as an example. he's making 10m+ per year. Do you think JuJU would sign that? I guarantee his agent wants #1 WR money..

jarvis landry is making 15m+, that's ridiculous. irrelevant of course but still ridiculous..
 
Conner is replaceable. Good enough but I wouldn’t lose any sleep over him leaving. And neither would anyone else if he was from anywhere but Pitt.

I suspect JuJu will want more money than the Steelers are willing to pay. And they have pretty good track record with WR to say the least.

Dupree is gone and so too probably is Villanueva unless he stays at a discount.
 
King Of All Message Boards said:
Conner is replaceable. Good enough but I wouldn’t lose any sleep over him leaving. And neither would anyone else if he was from anywhere but Pitt.

I suspect JuJu will want more money than the Steelers are willing to pay. And they have pretty good track record with WR to say the least.

Dupree is gone and so too probably is Villanueva unless he stays at a discount.
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the only saving grace i have with dupree is we did get two quality years out of him. if he continues to play like he has.. that's not terrible.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...
Juju has been practically nonexistent recently. I would not give him a big contract. Claypool is our #1.

Conner has been playing pretty well recently. Injuries are still an issue. If the price is right, then bring him back.

Dupree is playing well. I would want him back and try to keep him. But wouldn’t break the bank.

Feiler would be a keeper if the price is right.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...
We better concentrate on signing Hilton and Feiler. They’re both valuable and may be the 2 on your list we may have the most realistic chance of signing.

Third most realistic on the list to sign is James.

If this year continues as it’s going now, we won’t be able to sign JuJu not because of the price tag, but because he’ll want to go somewhere where he’ll get more opportunities. Not saying that’s Ben or the Steelers fault, more that JuJu will feel that way.
 
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Will Ben be back another year? If he doesn't come back, he no longer counts against the cap, right?
 
He's still hitting the cap in 2021.

If he doesn't play, they owe him $22,250,000.

If he does play, they'll owe him $41,250,000.

So you're better off having him in 2021, I guess. Though I imagine they will push some of that money back and restructure again, as per usual.
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
yeah but leaving James out of it, Ju Ju really hasnt done much without AB. so again, you sign him to a contract that's comparable to a good but not great #2. Lets use Tyler Boyd as an example. he's making 10m+ per year. Do you think JuJU would sign that? I guarantee his agent wants #1 WR money..

jarvis landry is making 15m+, that's ridiculous. irrelevant of course but still ridiculous..
Click to expand...
I wouldn't pay him too much, because we are deep at WR, but same with James, not as deep at WR, but RB is a relatively easy position to fill.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
wait a sec, if he retires, it's still a 21m hit? How is that even possible?
Click to expand...

His allocations for 2021 are:

Base Salary - 4M
Signing Bonus - 12.5M
Roster Bonus - 15M
Restructure Bonus - 9.75M

I believe we are allowed to recoup a portion of that signing bonus through arbitration if he retires. So maybe you're right. I know if we traded or cut him, that dead money would all hit on the books (we took a big hit for the rest of AB's signing bonus when we traded him, which was allocated over multiple more years, but Ben's currently only runs through 2021).

I imagine at least that 9.75M would be non-redeemable. Otherwise, I don't see why they would separate that from the regular signing bonus. So maybe the hit would be closer to half of that 21M.

I also don't think he'd retire, because he should have already received at least that signing bonus (it's just an imaginary cap figure now). Doubt he wants to pay that back.

Either way, I suspect they will restructure again if he returns. They are already over 200M for 2021, as things stand now. Not sure what the cap is going up to.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
good, we will need 1/2 that for TJ watt's next contract..
Click to expand...

Part of me thinks there should be a measure in place to incentivize good drafting (like maybe you pay a full number, but only 80% of it counts against the cap for guys you drafted). But another part of me thinks it doesn't even matter, because it's the same dumb ass teams that shoot themselves in the foot every year anyway.

But yeah... Ben's contract is killing us in 2021.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...
For whatever reason the Steelers have a knack for selecting quality WRs (Linus Sweed the exception). But Conner gets hurt so let them both go.
 
Juju isn’t having a huge year but he will hitting the market at only 24 with 4 years as a starting WR. Unless he signs before FA starts I don’t see him back. Conner is another story. With his injury history and the discount on backs in general, I don’t see a bidding war.
 
pittdan77 said:
I don't see the Steelers busting the bank to keep anyone but Dupree. I can see them using a franchise tag to do it. Conner might be gotten for a hometown discount but nobody is going to bend over to keep him here.
Click to expand...

He's already on franchise tag, isn't he? And I think the transition tag may be too risky.
 
pittdan77 said:
I don't see the Steelers busting the bank to keep anyone but Dupree. I can see them using a franchise tag to do it. Conner might be gotten for a hometown discount but nobody is going to bend over to keep him here.
Click to expand...
these players always flip out when they get franchised back to back. its like a slap in the face so i dont expect it to happen. remember we tried to do that with bell and he basically quit for a year.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...

I think we can sign both really. Neither would be in line to have an enormous increase in salary. Maybe Conner if he keeps this pace up, but JuJu is certainly down so far this year
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
these players always flip out when they get franchised back to back. its like a slap in the face so i dont expect it to happen. remember we tried to do that with bell and he basically quit for a year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think we'll bust out the transition tag. Like you said, players don't like that. He said last year he'd be fine with the franchise tag, but then he filed a grievance (not sure if that's just a common formality).

But my (limited) understanding of the transition tag leads me to believe he would command a shit load of money (pass rushers are the second highest paid position in the NFL... technically defensive ends, but I'm sure he would win a case for being that) and another team could still sign him.... we would just get a chance to match, but if we refused to match, we would get no compensatory draft pick like we would if we lost him via natural free agency. I'm sure teams would use our cap situation against us there.
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
wait a sec, if he retires, it's still a 21m hit? How is that even possible?
Click to expand...
Because all the upfront bonus money that hasn’t already been accounted for in prior year Salary cap hits and was remaining to be spread out over his future contact years, immediately goes to the cap the year he retires.
 
I'd love for the Steelers to keep Dupree because it's rare that you get a pair of dynamic pass rushers to go along with a strong defensive line. He's simply going to command too much on the open market so you hope Highsmith is ready to step in.

Conner makes more sense for the Steelers for a couple of reasons. First, he shouldn't be too expensive with his injury history and production. More importantly, though running back is arguably the easiest position to replace, they don't have another guy on the roster ready to step in as the full-time starter. I feel Conner is easily their best running back.

I like JuJu, but it's been two years with lower production and the Steelers have three guys (Claypool, Washington, and Johnson) ready to go. If Johnson stays healthy, he's going to be their volume receiver with his insane quickness and route running. I know he makes you pull your hair out every so often, but the guy is good.
 
Burgh15 said:
I'd love for the Steelers to keep Dupree because it's rare that you get a pair of dynamic pass rushers to go along with a strong defensive line. He's simply going to command too much on the open market so you hope Highsmith is ready to step in.

Conner makes more sense for the Steelers for a couple of reasons. First, he shouldn't be too expensive with his injury history and production. More importantly, though running back is arguably the easiest position to replace, they don't have another guy on the roster ready to step in as the full-time starter. I feel Conner is easily their best running back.

I like JuJu, but it's been two years with lower production and the Steelers have three guys (Claypool, Washington, and Johnson) ready to go. If Johnson stays healthy, he's going to be their volume receiver with his insane quickness and route running. I know he makes you pull your hair out every so often, but the guy is good.
Click to expand...

Just feels like we're going to be worse next year no matter how you slice it, which sucks. I thought the Hightower pick was ok, but I think that is such an important position in our defense that I'd almost like to see only 1st/high 2nd round picks devoted to it, ha. In fact, that might still be my draft pick this year (though I'm sure there will be quite a few positions on the table, including QB, OL, CB, and more).
 
2 guys that were not mentioned- Alualu and Spillane (small sample size) are FA worth keeping if the price is right.
 
PharMorNightStocker said:
Part of me thinks there should be a measure in place to incentivize good drafting (like maybe you pay a full number, but only 80% of it counts against the cap for guys you drafted). But another part of me thinks it doesn't even matter, because it's the same dumb ass teams that shoot themselves in the foot every year anyway.

But yeah... Ben's contract is killing us in 2021.
Click to expand...
I would expect maybe the Steelers extend Ben one more year, and prorate some of that cap. Regardless, there will be definitely some dead money when he is gone. Look at AB last year, he cost the Steelers $18 million against the Cap. They didn't pay him the money, but it does cost against the Cap. The NFL cap management is confusing unlike the NHL which is rather straight forward.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
I would expect maybe the Steelers extend Ben one more year, and prorate some of that cap. Regardless, there will be definitely some dead money when he is gone. Look at AB last year, he cost the Steelers $18 million against the Cap. They didn't pay him the money, but it does cost against the Cap. The NFL cap management is confusing unlike the NHL which is rather straight forward.
Click to expand...

What I don't like about the NFL cap is that you might give a guy $50M up front on a 5/year $90M contract (random example). Then in year four, he acts like he's only getting $8 million or something even though he's really basically getting $18M... it's just that the other $10M (spread over 5 years) was paid up front. Then he throws a fit and doesn't show up for camp, so you have to give him even more.
 
The way Bud Dupree has been playing, I think he would be my top priority. That said, he may simply want to much. We will probably keep one of James or JuJu, most likely James because he would probably cost less. If James gets hurt again, we may walk from both. I think the Steelers have plenty of faith that they can draft a receiver to replace JuJu, their track record is too good. In the end, I want Bud back if it is humanly possible!
 
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With what is likely to happen to the salary cap next season the Stillers aren't likely to resign ANY of the UFAs to contracts for next year, unless they are willing to stay here for far below market value.

If they franchise Dupree they would need to pay him somewhere around $19 million next year. On a team that is already going to be way over what the cap was assumed to be before the virus cut revenues for each team by tens of millions of dollars.

The Stillers are going to have to either restructure a ton of guys, Roethlisberger first and foremost among them, or they are going to have to cut several of their higher paid players just to get down to what the cap is going to be BEFORE they would even be able to think about cutting or restructuring more guys so that they could sign anyone, let alone anyone who is going to want big dollars.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
With what is likely to happen to the salary cap next season the Stillers aren't likely to resign ANY of the UFAs to contracts for next year, unless they are willing to stay here for far below market value.

If they franchise Dupree they would need to pay him somewhere around $19 million next year. On a team that is already going to be way over what the cap was assumed to be before the virus cut revenues for each team by tens of millions of dollars.

The Stillers are going to have to either restructure a ton of guys, Roethlisberger first and foremost among them, or they are going to have to cut several of their higher paid players just to get down to what the cap is going to be BEFORE they would even be able to think about cutting or restructuring more guys so that they could sign anyone, let alone anyone who is going to want big dollars.
Click to expand...
Pouncey is a big cap hit and isn’t worth what he is making.
 
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Before the season, I was convince Dupree would play his last year here on the franchise tag then walk. Steelers would look to Highsmith to replace him. But after seeing the front 7 play so far this year, I am beginning to think they might find a way to keep Dupree while their short window for SB runs is open. Even if Highsmith is the real deal, it will likely take him a little longer to be ready to perform at a level matching Dupree.

As for Conner, I think they might be able to get him at a reasonably price unless he thinks he's in the same class ar Derrick Henry or Zeke Elliot. He may think that - professionally athletes tend to have big egos. But guys like Todd Gurely, Kareem Hunt, Austin Ekeler, Mark Ingram are all in the $5-6M range....I think that would fair to Conner and affordable if he'd take it, like 4 years for $25M.

RBs due for free agency next year include Gurley, Kenyan Drake, Mike Davis (CAR), Leonard Fournette...any of them would probably be happy to take that money if Conner doesn't want it, and do a similar job.
 
Everone I read seems to just assume Dupree is gone.

If I'm Conner, I take what the Steelers offer. He's damaged goods so what kind of offers will he get elsewhere and what kind of marketability does he have outside of PGH. I'm thinking of extra salary in endorsements and post career positioning here.

JuJu: not sure. He's got the tools. Will he take a pay cut to stay with Ben being one play from retiring and tons of talent at WR here? The Steelers seem to have a knack with WR's. TB's are a different story. If you get one, you hold on and run him till he drops which doesn't take long it seems. As I look across the league, RB's don't seem to make it through a season very often anymore.
 
There's no chance they resign JuJu. He's a luxury now that they have Claypool. They can put James Washington and Claypool on the outside and Diontae in the slot. No way do they give a slot WR $14M per year with Claypool playing like this.
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
both are up for FA and im having a hard time imagining they sign both but possibly signing one. we are pitt fans, we love James so im guessing most of us will say James. but objectively speaking, do you offer him a 3 or 4 year contract? I mean, he is injury prone and i HATE offering a 4 year deal for a RB because it is such a tough position to play consistently in the NFL..

Now for JuJu, i mean i think it's fair to say he's not a #1 WR in this league. So you offer him a respectable salary for the going rate of what an above avg #2 wr makes. Problem is, for the steelers, the guy is young and has shown he can do it and you dont need all the Owners/GMs to believe you are a #1 WR, you only need one GM. and as we know, there is always one or two foolish GMs that will over pay for a 23 year old WR who has proven he can play..

What do you guys think, any chances we sign either? Throw in the fact that Ben has about 40 million of cap money tied up and we arent exactly flush with cap space..

OTHER UFAs in '21;

Bud Dupree
Villanueva
Hilton
FEiler


and a few others that no one cares about...
Click to expand...

Right now I am guessing no defender is a guarantee to be signed because the whole defense is playing exceptionally well. With Bush out and if the defense holds steady then it is doubtful the Steelers will consider that one piece of the puzzle is worth chasing tons of money at. RBs are a dime a dozen but James is playing like historic Steeler backs right now and I could see him being signed to continue the Steeler legacy for what that is worth. I think JuJu is going to get “Chase”-d out of Pittsburgh.
 
I do think a starting trio of Claypool, Johnson, and Washington is good enough and they have decent depth pieces in McLeod and Cain. They could add to that with yet another WR draft pick or a cheaper veteran. They tend not to do well with cheaper veteran WRs, even just looking for someone to be an average depth player. Who was the last one that did well? Cedrick Wilson Sr??

That being said, Claypool, Johnson, and Washington are all dirt cheap for a while on rookie deals. They could allocate that money elsewhere but they could also justify spending a little money on the WR position to pay JuJu. I think they might be willing to keep him around as a veteran presence (even being young) at an Emanuel Sanders/Sammy Watkins/Desean Jackson/Julian Edelman type price of $8-9 mil. However, JuJu and his agent will likely see Tyler Boyd and Tyrell Williams making $11 mil and go for that range, which will likely push him out the door and I feel like someone will given him at least $10 mil, especially a team that has a real #1 and wants a very solid #2 to round out their passing attack. JuJu would look good on the Packers lined up across from Davante Adams or on the Saints across from Michael Thomas or some other similar team that needs two strong WR in their offense.
 
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