OT: WPIAL HS Sports are a mess

May 3, 2020
48
14
8
We are in a tiny district begging for consolidation (Carlynton). In reality we should merge with Montour or Char Valley. I know our district reached out years ago and the answer from those districts was "no thanks". The only district willing to discuss is was Keystone Oaks and that would be a logistical nightmare given it would be one long, narrow district pretty much cutting across the entirety of the south hills.

The state will eventually need to compel these larger, wealthier districts to merge with smaller ones. And that doesn't even account for the small districts with meager tax bases like Sto-Rox.

As for sports, our district is competitive in everything except football. Not sure if we've even scored a point yet this season, lol.
As long as the state legislature is dominated by the Republicans, they will never mandate consolidation. These types of things are political third rails, anyhow. Most of these very small school districts are in solidly red communities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PittPharm2002

PittPharm2002

Senior
Dec 21, 2021
4,325
2,079
113
The problem is that in some smaller suburban districts (even those in decent areas) the higher property taxes are just barely covering the budget given the relatively small tax base. I don't see anything changing unless districts start merging on a large scale.
That’s why I think you take these small suburban schools and merge them with a nearby large “urban”
guess which areas are used to doing more with less ?
 

rmf05

Junior
Sep 5, 2017
3,742
2,373
113
In the east there were far more township districts due to rural jurisdictions. Here in the west, the districts have been Borough-based due to the more urbanized, industrial culture. When sprawl destroyed large swaths of the eastern ag lands, those school districts merged in the 80's because they had tons of money and few students.

Here in the west, there has been slow and constant consolidation happening since the 90's and it will continue. Comparing the 2 sides of the commonwealth is just ignorant.

Another issue is that tons of kids out here are ditching public schools for homeschooling and small private schools with no PIAA affiliation. This along with political instability make merging borough-based districts very difficult. Combining 2 township districts is pretty easy once union interference gets squashed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt

Fk_Pitt

Lair Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 3, 2007
43,362
30,518
113
All this talk about small schools and big schools, I wish Aliquippa would have scheduled a 5A USC or 6A PCC. That would be tremendous. Who wouldn’t root for the Quips…besides all you PCC snobs? Lol.
 

Zeldas Open Roof

Board of Trustee
Gold Member
Sep 18, 2018
28,791
36,156
113
All this talk about small schools and big schools, I wish Aliquippa would have scheduled a 5A USC or 6A PCC. That would be tremendous. Who wouldn’t root for the Quips…besides all you PCC snobs? Lol.

as crazy as it sounds, they'd probably do very well playing against 5A and even 6a schools. I know that's crazy but didnt they just win states at the 4a level.
 

PittPharm2002

Senior
Dec 21, 2021
4,325
2,079
113
All this talk about small schools and big schools, I wish Aliquippa would have scheduled a 5A USC or 6A PCC. That would be tremendous. Who wouldn’t root for the Quips…besides all you PCC snobs? Lol.
They keep getting punished so it’s a matter of time before the piaa in their wisdom maybe 1a quips play 5a
 

Fk_Pitt

Lair Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 3, 2007
43,362
30,518
113
They keep getting punished so it’s a matter of time before the piaa in their wisdom maybe 1a quips play 5a
Which is ridiculous. At some point the season would catch up with them. But they rolled through 4A so…
 
May 3, 2020
48
14
8
In all seriousness, at some point Aliquippa would start seeing significant injuries if they played 6A schools. They have their studs, but they also have smaller kids filling in on the lines. PCC, for all of the angst that they create, probably averages 275 on both of their lines. I would bet Quip has at least some linemen that are 200 pounds.
 

prez41

All Conference
Sep 2, 2003
5,426
1,195
113
They keep getting punished so it’s a matter of time before the piaa in their wisdom maybe 1a quips play 5a
Meanwhile, schools like Greensburg Central Catholic can sit in 1A soccer, win a majority of their games by 5+ goals, and the WPIAL does nothing. It’s a joke organization
 

CaptainMurphy

Heisman Winner
Dec 10, 2004
8,463
5,248
113
That’s why I think you take these small suburban schools and merge them with a nearby large “urban”
guess which areas are used to doing more with less ?

I don't think many districts will be looking to merge with Pittsburgh city schools. More likely that the suburban districts are forced to greatly consolidate.

Or do it like they do in other states and just make the entire county a district. There are drawbacks there but if you want maximum efficiency, that is probably the way to do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Parkview57

recruitsreadtheseboards

Lair Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jun 11, 2006
83,321
71,233
113
Which is ridiculous. At some point the season would catch up with them. But they rolled through 4A so…
The problem with a transient community like Aliquippa with a lot of renters, you have many "transfers". The other thing, you have such connected families in the Ohio Valley (think an urban version of West Virginia) you have a really good athlete deciding to live with an aunt or uncle or grandma and playing football for Aliquippa instead of Rochester or Ambridge.
 

PittPharm2002

Senior
Dec 21, 2021
4,325
2,079
113
I don't think many districts will be looking to merge with Pittsburgh city schools. More likely that the suburban districts are forced to greatly consolidate.

Or do it like they do in other states and just make the entire county a district. There are drawbacks there but if you want maximum efficiency, that is probably the way to do it.
I didn’t mean pps
With so many going to private or charter schools - the magnet process works well enough
 

Burgh15

Senior
Jan 10, 2015
4,105
3,520
113
In all seriousness, at some point Aliquippa would start seeing significant injuries if they played 6A schools. They have their studs, but they also have smaller kids filling in on the lines. PCC, for all of the angst that they create, probably averages 275 on both of their lines. I would bet Quip has at least some linemen that are 200 pounds.
Aliquippa's offensive line averaged 303 lbs last year.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Fk_Pitt

Joe the Panther Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Jul 6, 2001
37,880
17,659
113
Absolutely. Hempfield for sure. But it is not always the "white" districts that balk. Schools like Jeannette, Leechburg, Clairton do not want to lose their identity.


I haven't gone through the whole thread yet so if someone else has pointed this out I apologize, but maybe a month or two ago the mayor of Jeannette wondered out loud as to why their school district didn't merge with Hempfield, and the local populous went batshit crazy.

Because to way too many of the people who live there, Jeanette Jayhawks football (and to a lesser extent basketball) means way more than kids getting a decent education.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaptainMurphy

Joe the Panther Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Jul 6, 2001
37,880
17,659
113
FK, I have not looked At WPIAL alignments in a while. Even while still living in PA. Since I lived in North Huntingdon, I was shocked that Norwin and Penn Trafford are no longer in same conference. Even more shocked to see that Norwin has a really bad, losing record in girls soccer. Never ever would have thought that.


Oddly enough, this year they are in the same class (and section) in football for the first time in a long time (in fact they are playing each other tonight), but they are now in different classes in soccer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt

PeetWeet2

Scholarship
Feb 2, 2022
210
108
43
I haven't gone through the whole thread yet so if someone else has pointed this out I apologize, but maybe a month or two ago the mayor of Jeannette wondered out loud as to why their school district didn't merge with Hempfield, and the local populous went batshit crazy.

Because to way too many of the people who live there, Jeanette Jayhawks football (and to a lesser extent basketball) means way more than kids getting a decent education.
To get to one high school, football had to stay in Turtle Creek. Tradition dies hard.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
54,004
16,447
113
I haven't gone through the whole thread yet so if someone else has pointed this out I apologize, but maybe a month or two ago the mayor of Jeannette wondered out loud as to why their school district didn't merge with Hempfield, and the local populous went batshit crazy.

Because to way too many of the people who live there, Jeanette Jayhawks football (and to a lesser extent basketball) means way more than kids getting a decent education.
That is the main reason why Monessen and Clairton would fight a merger. Monessen basketball and Clairton football are too important
 

CentPaPittFan

Freshman
Nov 12, 2002
1,863
112
63
Would it be so difficult to have the following WPIAL 6A league?

NA
SV
CC
CM
Lebo
McDowell
Erie (didn't realize this was the 7th largest HS in PA)
Altoona
State College
Mifflin County
Williamsport

Basically every 6A team west of State College with District outlier Williamsport. 6A Butler and Allderdice would probably opt to be independent/City League. That's 11 teams. Divide into 2 divisions. The Pgh area schools in 1. The other 6 in the other. Top 3 in each division make playoffs.

District 3 (Harrisburg area) has 17 6A teams somehow. I guess this goes back to SW PA being unique in that every individual town seems to have its own school district.
You realize state college and Altoona are in the top district 3 league with CV, CD, Carlisle, Chambersburg, Harrisburg?

state college still made state playoffs despite finishing 5th in the league , yet teams above of them did not, because they get in thru district 6 , it’s a joke
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
54,004
16,447
113
You realize state college and Altoona are in the top district 3 league with CV, CD, Carlisle, Chambersburg, Harrisburg?

state college still made state playoffs despite finishing 5th in the league , yet teams above of them did not, because they get in thru district 6 , it’s a joke
Yea, I doubt that, Souf said HS kids will die if they have to bus 2-3 hours a couple times per year.
 

CentPaPittFan

Freshman
Nov 12, 2002
1,863
112
63
You are the last person who should be questioning someone's mental status. There is not one poster on this board who thinks you are mentally stable. You have literally been kicked off of this board for making fun of someone's deceased relatives. You are not a well person and should seek help.

Also, admit you are wrong and HS athletes will survive bussing 2-3 hours as Altoona is apparently doing playing teams in the Harrisburg area.
Yea and it’s awful for all concerned , I’m in my 39th season coaching a high school sport, I only have to go to mifflin and state college 1-2 times a year , sometimes none, sometimes 4 times. Did it this year on a monday/Wednesday the same week , real nice time, NOT, but they have to come south a lot more
it sucks, kids getting home at 1am for basketball swimming , or volleyball
luckily mine start at 4 so it’s only 9-10 pm

it was all created for football and they the least affected
 
  • Like
Reactions: pittdan77

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
54,004
16,447
113
Yea and it’s awful for all concerned , I’m in my 39th season coaching a high school sport, I only have to go to mifflin and state college 1-2 times a year , sometimes none, sometimes 4 times. Did it this year on a monday/Wednesday the same week , real nice time, NOT, but they have to come south a lot more
it sucks, kids getting home at 1am for basketball swimming , or volleyball
luckily mine start at 4 so it’s only 9-10 pm

it was all created for football and they the least affected
They should absolutely only be doing this for football. No reason to bus that many hours for other sports, where you can play smaller local schools where, though you still have an advantage, that advantage is mitigated some by the number of players the small school needs to compete. 7-8 in basketall. 4-5 good ones for volleyball, etc.
 
May 3, 2020
48
14
8
For the love of god, NIMBY has no political party!
Very true, but just pointing out the local politics at work.

This issue: considered bad by the locals.

The political affiliation of the locals: red, for the most part. Small, depressed areas usually are these days.

State legislature: red

Why would the group currently in control, do something to piss off the people who put them in control? They shouldn't, and they won't.

All I'm trying to say.
 

pittchagg

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Mar 30, 2017
7,612
13,926
113
You realize state college and Altoona are in the top district 3 league with CV, CD, Carlisle, Chambersburg, Harrisburg?

state college still made state playoffs despite finishing 5th in the league , yet teams above of them did not, because they get in thru district 6 , it’s a joke
Yeah, State College has been in the Mid-Penn for almost 20 years. Altoona, too, if you don’t include their brief stay in the WPIAL ten or so years ago.

It’s tough for those schools just because they’re so much bigger than pretty much all of their geographic peers. No real easy travel solutions there if they want to play schools anything close to their size.
 

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
54,004
16,447
113
Yeah, State College has been in the Mid-Penn for almost 20 years. Altoona, too, if you don’t include their brief stay in the WPIAL ten or so years ago.

It’s tough for those schools just because they’re so much bigger than pretty much all of their geographic peers. No real easy travel solutions there if they want to play schools anything close to their size.
Yea, they arent close to any large schools. District 3 has 17 6A schools. They dont need Altoona, SC, and Mifflin. Those 3 and Williamsport, McDowell, and Erie should all be in the WPIAL for football only. They could play the title game at Acrisure and the winner would advance to the state semis vs the District 3 champ.
 

pittchagg

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Mar 30, 2017
7,612
13,926
113
Yea, they arent close to any large schools. District 3 has 17 6A schools. They dont need Altoona, SC, and Mifflin. Those 3 and Williamsport, McDowell, and Erie should all be in the WPIAL for football only. They could play the title game at Acrisure and the winner would advance to the state semis vs the District 3 champ.
They already pretty much do that, though. Those schools are in the Mid-Penn (part of D3), but they’re in D6 and go through that playoff. When the regular season ends, they go and play the D6/D10/City League super region, and the winner of that plays the WPIAL winner in the state quarterfinals. That winner plays the D3 winner in the state semi. https://www.easternpafootball.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/6A-Statre-Tournament-2022.jpg

So it’s just about who they want to play in the regular season, and they feel like they fit better with the Harrisburg schools.
 

steelcurtain55.

Sophomore
May 6, 2017
2,707
1,606
113
No, there is very little difference in teachers between districts. But Monessen kids could take more class offerings at a bigger school. Does Monessen have Trig, Calc, AP Bio? An ambitious Monessen kid could do better elsewhere. Not to mention the extracurriculars.
Monessen offers -

Trig
Calc 1
Calc 2

AP English 11
AP English 12

AP Physics
AP Psychology

Extracurriculars

Football
Soccer
Baseball
Softball
Basketball
Track
Cheerleading
Chorus
Band
Theatre
Marching/Concert Band
Music/Fine Arts
Visual Media

Not to shabby for a school that graduates around 50-70 kids/year
 

Conemaugh

Redshirt
May 8, 2020
787
601
93
The most far left progressive people I know personally, people who are very, very close to me, not those who act that way on this board, fought the Woodland Hills merger tooth and nail back in the day. Good people can be hypocrites.
I wish they would have fought a lot harder. The Woody Hills merger has been a disaster for every community involved. A generation ago, prior to the Woodland Hills merger, there were nice neighborhoods in the east end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zeldas Open Roof

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
54,004
16,447
113
They already pretty much do that, though. Those schools are in the Mid-Penn (part of D3), but they’re in D6 and go through that playoff. When the regular season ends, they go and play the D6/D10/City League super region, and the winner of that plays the WPIAL winner in the state quarterfinals. That winner plays the D3 winner in the state semi. https://www.easternpafootball.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/6A-Statre-Tournament-2022.jpg

So it’s just about who they want to play in the regular season, and they feel like they fit better with the Harrisburg schools.
Yea but its stupid for those schools to bus 2-3 hours east to play in a league which has more than enough teams when they can bus 2-3 hours west and play in a league which doesn't have enough teams.
 

Zeldas Open Roof

Board of Trustee
Gold Member
Sep 18, 2018
28,791
36,156
113
Why would anyone in a good district want to merge a worse district into theirs? That's the root of the issue.
Yes and I’ve alluded to this several times, specifically with tj and Clairton. Yet sone on here don’t speak of the elephdd as my in the room.
 

Conemaugh

Redshirt
May 8, 2020
787
601
93
I live in Johnstown. My house is located in a single A school district. The high school is 5.2 miles away from my house. There are two high schools in other districts closer to my house. There are elementary schools in three other districts closer to my house than my district's elementary school. The high school football team has a 99 mile trip to its away game next Friday. The following week it travels 58 miles. Last week it traveled 51 miles.

The school district hasn't had a shop teacher in five years or so. I think it has finally hired a language teacher after not having one for a few years. It loses several teachers every year to better paying jobs in other districts. It graduates fewer than 70 kids per year. It has a total of seven varsity sports teams. It co-ops with many other small districts just to be able to continue to field teams in some sports. It quite frankly, needs to go away. The obvious school to merge with is Greater Johnstown. That will never happen. And I can't see another district wanting it. So what do you do?
Why would you possibly want your school district to merge with Johnstown? That would be the worst thing for the children in your borough and for you as a taxpayer.