Pat Forde weighs in on the Stallings hire, and it's not good

[Pittbaseball11]

You mean 3 tourneys in 5 years--with a CBI and a NIT rounding out the 5. The last 5 years have not been impressive. Barely making the tournament by beating 11 absolute patsies and going around .500 in the league is no way to fly.

the roster that's returning is one of the problems. Not much quality there, and lots of big holes at key spots--like capable backcourt scorers and a legit bigs. No experience at PG. The product of years of inadequate recruiting. The outlook was not rosy for next year. The guy in the best position to know that is Dixon, and he left under his own steam. Do you really think he would have done that if he thought his returning roster was capable of big things?

Yes, I don't think he wanted to deal with the unrest around the boosters. I don't think he was blowing smoke up our asses when he said he thought he left the program in a solid place.

I don't really see a reason to be down on next year's roster. The core is returning and the most encouraging youngsters are as well. It's not perfect, but few rosters ever are.

Again, I don't see any reason to just constantly pick at the last 5. Last year it was constantly picking at the last 4. Why not do the same this year and look at the last 4? Why not extend it back to 6 years?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Nope. Ive followed Pitt hoops when we had Clyde Vaughn. Charles Smith, D. Gore, Jerome Lane, Brian Shorter, Bobby Martin and many others. Funny thing is Ralph Willard's first recruiting class was a Top 5 in the country.

So your right. Nobody wants a Pitt job. Because its impossible to recruit here. Your amazing

Oh, so when we blatantly paid guys and flat out cheated they came to Pitt? Which, as I told you on the premium board, has been my stance on getting guys to come here. If Pitt cheats, they'll get guys. I've never ever denied that.

 

[sherepower]

Oh, so when we blatantly paid guys and flat out cheated they came to Pitt? Which, as I told you on the premium board, has been my stance on getting guys to come here. If Pitt cheats, they'll get guys. I've never ever denied that.

Ahhh. There it is. The typical Pitt cheated response.
Funny thing is. I don't remember Pitt ever being on probation. Go to bed.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Ahhh. There it is. The typical Pitt cheated response.
Funny thing is. I don't remember Pitt ever being on probation. Go to bed.

Mmhmm. Okay, shere. Just keep on burying your head in the sand about anything at all that doesn't paint Pitt as the most wonderfulest place on earth.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Ahhh. There it is. The typical Pitt cheated response.
Funny thing is. I don't remember Pitt ever being on probation. Go to bed.

@Harve74 any thoughts on how Pitt recruited under Willard?

 

[Pittguy1980]

the things I'm reading from shere and others are pure fantasy. Just an unbelievable lack of awareness.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Ahhh. There it is. The typical Pitt cheated response.

If you don't think that Pitt was cheating back then you either weren't paying attention or you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Piranha]

If you don't think that Pitt was cheating back then you either weren't paying attention or you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

95% of the schools landing elite recruits are cheating.

 

[playtowin1]

And the beat goes on. I thought I saw a post on this board that no one is trashing Stallings? I also thought I saw a post about reading comprehension. I swear I saw a post about giving Stallings a fair chance to prove himself. I saw a post that Jamie was among the highest paid coaches. I saw a post that Jamie was forced out. I saw a post that said Stallings was old and over the hill at 55. I could tolerate all the above with the exception of Stallings being old at 55. I am 71 and I don't consider myself over the hill. Fifty five today is an age where many are in their prime. If for no other reason, I will root like hell for Stallings to do well, which quite frankly I expect him to because of his age.

 

[Fredact]

Worst case scenario--

TCU makes the NCAAs. Pitt lands in the CBI.

Gadzooks! We better hope not.

That's probably the best result. Then Stallings and Barnes get run out of town, and Dixon comes back as the savior. Likely the only way the program gets to the upper half of the ACC.

 

[TD_6082]

That's probably the best result. Then Stallings and Barnes get run out of town, and Dixon comes back as the savior. Likely the only way the program gets to the upper half of the ACC.

I hope you aren't serious. Dixon is gone and he's not coming back. Pitt finished 5th, 9th, and 9th respectively in Dixon's three seasons coaching in the ACC. Its not like he was making a lot of waves in the ACC.

 

[TD_6082]

http://thesource.com/2015/11/05/the...lege-basketball-preseason-polls-are-released/

 

[GoPittO6]

And the beat goes on. I thought I saw a post on this board that no one is trashing Stallings? I also thought I saw a post about reading comprehension. I swear I saw a post about giving Stallings a fair chance to prove himself. I saw a post that Jamie was among the highest paid coaches. I saw a post that Jamie was forced out. I saw a post that said Stallings was old and over the hill at 55. I could tolerate all the above with the exception of Stallings being old at 55. I am 71 and I don't consider myself over the hill. Fifty five today is an age where many are in their prime. If for no other reason, I will root like hell for Stallings to do well, which quite frankly I expect him to because of his age.

Good for you.

"We define who we are. We don't let others define us." - Jamie Dixon

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Ummmm Dixon had been to the Tourney 3 of the last 4 years, averaged a 10-8 record in-conference, and was returning almost his entire team.

What are you talking about other than cherry picking the one timeframe that makes it look like he was even moderately struggling here?

Why not point out his last 6 years? It's a larger sample, after all.

Should also point out that stallings made the tournament only twice in the past 5 years also with only win.
2 ncaa wins the past 9 years.
It's fun to pick arbitrary times.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Get a pencil and ruler. Draw a dot representing Pitt's 2011 performance, however you choose to define it. Then draw a dot for 2016. Lastly, connect the dots.

Now, is the slope positive or negative... and does including 2011 make it steeper or not?

Can't believe I need to walk people through this, but I guess it's needed sometimes.

I have bad news for you.
Stallings last made a sweet 16 TEN years ago.
Imploded at vandy .

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Nope. Ive followed Pitt hoops when we had Clyde Vaughn. Charles Smith, D. Gore, Jerome Lane, Brian Shorter, Bobby Martin and many others. Funny thing is Ralph Willard's first recruiting class was a Top 5 in the country.

So your right. Nobody wants a Pitt job. Because its impossible to recruit here. Your amazing

But only one coach did.

 

[GoPittO6]

I have bad news for you.
Stallings last made a sweet 16 TEN years ago.
Imploded at vandy .

Here you go again. We had this exact same exchange a week ago.

Stallings' crappiness is not news to me. I hate the hire.

Repeat.. I hate the hire.

Why... WHY do you equate criticism of Jamie Dixon with support for Kevin Stallings?

Are you really such a simpleton?

 

[Delpanther]

But only one coach did.

Playing in a barn may have been a limiting factor....

 

[mvk112]

Stallings has taken an also-ran program to the Sweet 16 twice. That's not bad. Not Amazing. It doesn't offer much clear hope of improvement over Dixon.

In the 17 years previous to Stallings at Vanderbilt, they went to two Sweet 16s and 5 tournaments. They won 138 SEC conference games. Stallings went to two Sweet 16s and 7 tournaments. He won 138 SEC conference games. It was as much of an also-ran program while Stallings was there as before, if you are insinuating he took over an also ran program.

The myth of Stallings doing something miraculous at Vanderbilt is crazy.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ahhh. There it is. The typical Pitt cheated response.
Funny thing is. I don't remember Pitt ever being on probation. Go to bed.

You're both right.

Pitt cheated. I mean look who we had on our staff back in those days....Calipari.

That being said, you also still can recruit to a decent program in a great conference in a town without an NBA franchise to compete with. Just Dixon was not a great recruiter.

And the jump off where Jamie won't play dirty maybe true. But you have to get good kids somehow.

 

[Harve74]

@Harve74 any thoughts on how Pitt recruited under Willard?

Pitt was on probation from actions by John Sanandrea under Evans. He lined up a guy to pay for Jamal Faulkner to go to prep school. Shere is either purposely forgetful on this or oblivious to what went on here for years.

Pitt hired a guy who formerly worked for the NCAA and he self-reported Pitt for a bunch of minor offenses, pleading down to a bunch of minor offenses rather than getting hit for the major one. They couldn't dodge the Faulkner case because his mother went public with it.

That can be Goggled pretty easily.

Anybody who doesn't believe plenty happened is in denial. It certainly wasn't a coincidence that several dozen jocks were driving around in brand-new Monte Carlo's with stickers from a well-known booster. Or that Charles Smith who came from an impoverished single parent home had apartments in Shadyside and Mount Washington and drove a BMW and a Jaguar as an upperclassman.

I don't know a whole lot about how Williard got his guys. The people I used to get my inside info from had retired by that time. I do know Williard reached and signed a lot of guys with major character issues. Several of them ended up in jail.

It's not a pretty picture. It WAS a different era then but that doesn't justify what went on. We didn't have a pedofile assistant but other than that, just about any sordid incident that went on elsewhere happened here, too. Wanny's team's Southside antics are pretty tame compared to what happened and was swept under the rug here in the Golden Panther years.

 

[pittbb80]

That's probably the best result. Then Stallings and Barnes get run out of town, and Dixon comes back as the savior. Likely the only way the program gets to the upper half of the ACC.

A great PItt fan.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Pitt was on probation from actions by John Sanandrea under Evans. He lined up a guy to pay for Jamal Faulkner to go to prep school. Shere is either purposely forgetful on this or oblivious to what went on here for years.

Pitt hired a guy who formerly worked for the NCAA and he self-reported Pitt for a bunch of minor offenses, pleading down to a bunch of minor offenses rather than getting hit for the major one. They couldn't dodge the Faulkner case because his mother went public with it.

That can be Goggled pretty easily.

Anybody who doesn't believe plenty happened is in denial. It certainly wasn't a coincidence that several dozen jocks were driving around in brand-new Monte Carlo's with stickers from a well-known booster. Or that Charles Smith who came from an impoverished single parent home had apartments in Shadyside and Mount Washington and drove a BMW and a Jaguar as an upperclassman.

I don't know a whole lot about how Williard got his guys. The people I used to get my inside info from had retired by that time. I do know Williard reached and signed a lot of guys with major character issues. Several of them ended up in jail.

It's not a pretty picture. It WAS a different era then but that doesn't justify what went on. We didn't have a pedofile assistant but other than that, just about any sordid incident that went on elsewhere happened here, too. Wanny's team's Southside antics are pretty tame compared to what happened and was swept under the rug here in the Golden Panther years.

It was the same era as Gottfried, Frankie D'Alonzo, etc...again Google this on the football side.

 

[pittguy81]

Just to clear it up for you... the "strawman" version isn't mine. I'm not the one arguing Pitt can't do better than Stallings and shouldn't ever expect to. Others are clearly arguing that "strawman" in defense of the Stallings hire.

I think we can do better and should have this time around.

Stallings has not coached one game at Pitt, but you're already proclaiming Pitt can do better and should....yeah that's a fair assessment on your part.

As an aside there isn't one damn thing you can clear up for me.

 

[pittguy81]

I'm not ignoring it. I'm challenging it's relevance.

A) It's not news to anybody that we whiffed on Sean Miller. It was also highly publicized that Howland turned us down, though some, including Ziese argued that there was never any confirmed contact between them and that Howland's "no" might have been overblown. The fact that a few "lofty" targets publicly shot us down is not some amazing revelation. Forde is just regurgitating that as far as I can tell.

B) It's the not-so-lofty but very solid candidates that I'm grinding my ax over. Go back and review the timeline. Stallings' name surfaced too soon... as preposterous as it seemed at the time. Matt and others would say only days later that Stallings' name seemed like nonsense until it turned out shockingly that he was the guy. There wasn't enough time for Keattes, Wade and Enfield to each have been given more than a superficial sniff before "rejecting" us.

I see what's happening here in the realm of public perception. The narrative is forming that Pitt couldn't land any one of the myriad of quality guys it wanted... and oddly enough, that somehow justifies Stallings. No and No.

A whole lot of conjecture and supposition presented as fact.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Here you go again. We had this exact same exchange a week ago.

Stallings' crappiness is not news to me. I hate the hire.

Repeat.. I hate the hire.

Why... WHY do you equate criticism of Jamie Dixon with support for Kevin Stallings?

Are you really such a simpleton?

I don't
I'm talking about our current coach .

You are fixated on the former.

Capiche?

 

[pittguy81]

Nope. Ive followed Pitt hoops when we had Clyde Vaughn. Charles Smith, D. Gore, Jerome Lane, Brian Shorter, Bobby Martin and many others. Funny thing is Ralph Willard's first recruiting class was a Top 5 in the country.

So your right. Nobody wants a Pitt job. Because its impossible to recruit here. Your amazing

Ahh the day$ of the Golden Panther$.

 

[GoPittO6]

A whole lot of conjecture and supposition presented as fact.

Even if so, it's certainly better than anything you can offer in support of the Stallings hire.

 

[GoPittO6]

As an aside there isn't one damn thing you can clear up for me.

Unfortunately for you, I think you're correct.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Playing in a barn may have been a limiting factor....

Not to a good coach and recruiter.

 

[TD_istheman]

Nope. Ive followed Pitt hoops when we had Clyde Vaughn. Charles Smith, D. Gore, Jerome Lane, Brian Shorter, Bobby Martin and many others. Funny thing is Ralph Willard's first recruiting class was a Top 5 in the country.

So your right. Nobody wants a Pitt job. Because its impossible to recruit here. Your amazing

You nailed it! Pitt can be a great job if you are not a lazy OR a bad recruiter. If you can recruit you can win anywhere and build a great program. Dixon got worse as a recruiter and or lazy, time to go was perfect, thanks TCU

 

[thebadby2]

Yes, I don't think he wanted to deal with the unrest around the boosters. I don't think he was blowing smoke up our asses when he said he thought he left the program in a solid place.

I don't really see a reason to be down on next year's roster. The core is returning and the most encouraging youngsters are as well. It's not perfect, but few rosters ever are.

Again, I don't see any reason to just constantly pick at the last 5. Last year it was constantly picking at the last 4. Why not do the same this year and look at the last 4? Why not extend it back to 6 years?

The time frame is the issue because for that entire lackluster stretch, after every year we we were all expecting that bounce-back to higher NCAA seeds, upper-echelon status in the conference, and some hope in March--"we'll get it back next year"--and we had reason to based on JD's performance from 2003-2010. Instead, we have been in an extended state of mediocrity for 5 years, and--this is the important part--with no end in sight. Lamar Patterson and Woodall lifted us a little bit above the current state, but they have not been replaced, and recruiting has been undeniably awful. Not just bad, but bottom-feeder P5 bad. Our best recruit in that entire span was Robinson, and he was never the kind of player that could individually elevate his team. Young is legit but only plays one end of the floor. The rest, well, we've seen the results.

I just wish we could have hired better. I think in some ways this was just a bad year to be looking for a coach. None of the young guns that were bandied about were in the caliber of a young Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart, Gregg Marshall, etc. Enfield probably wasn't any better than Stallings.

All we can do now is hope Stallings is better than his 17 year record at Vandy.

 

[thebadby2]

Playing in a barn may have been a limiting factor....

The most talented teams Pitt ever fielded played in that barn. Not the most successful, but easily the most talented. We could only dream of getting those Evans-era kinds of players now.

As my dad always used to say, "any place is nice if you have a lot of money."

 

[TD_istheman]

Stallings needs to recruit a few classes to get a feel, and I'm sure they will be a much improvement over what was being brought in here lately.

 

[mvk112]

Stallings needs to recruit a few classes to get a feel, and I'm sure they will be a much improvement over what was being brought in here lately.

What makes you believe that? His recruiting rankings are similar to Dixon' over the course of the past 13 years (slightly worse than Dixon) including the past five years (slightly better than Dixon). Was it his two 3-star player class for 2016 that gives you all of this hope?

 

[pittguy81]

Unfortunately for you, I think you're correct.

It is unfortunate. I thrive on learning new things, engaging with intelligent, thoughtful, introspective and interesting people. You bring none of that to the table. So much more the pity.

 

[pittguy81]

The most talented teams Pitt ever fielded played in that barn. Not the most successful, but easily the most talented. We could only dream of getting those Evans-era kinds of players now.

As my dad always used to say, "any place is nice if you have a lot of money."

Pitt just has to start the Evans era "perks" back up to begin getting those players once again.

 

[pittguy81]

Even if so, it's certainly better than anything you can offer in support of the Stallings hire.

A seasoned, well regarded HC with a lot of experience at a Major Conference school. He has already shown some recruiting ability, keeping the current team intact while retaining all 3 new recruits. The staff he has been able to assemble appears to be very good. Among his peer group he is highly respected and viewed as one of the better offensive minds in the current HC ranks.

His media interviews have shown him to be articulate and intelligent.

I was not enamored of the hire initially. After hearing him at his unduly hostile introductory presser and then in subsequent interviews I now have a favorable opinion of him and look forward to what his tenure will bring.

Certainly I am reasonable enough not to declare him a poor hire before he has coached one game for Pitt.

The know it alls never do

 

[GoPittO6]

"A seasoned, well regarded HC with a lot of experience at a Major Conference school [and little in the way of accomplishment to suggest he can succeed at the level we want here at Pitt]. He has already shown some recruiting ability, keeping the current team intact while retaining all 3 new recruits [Already setting the bar low, I see]. The staff he has been able to assemble appears to be very good ["appears" to who?... you? Bravo.]. Among his peer group he is highly respected and viewed as one of the better offensive minds in the current HC ranks. [You're basing that off... what? That article that was posted here a few days ago? Go read the comment section again. And what do you expect coaches to say publicly... negative things about each other?]

His media interviews have shown him to be articulate and intelligent. [Like when he articulated how he wanted to "f...ing kill" one of his players? Great composure. Smooth talking in front of a camera does nothing for me. Apparently you're sold, though.]

I was not enamored of the hire initially. After hearing him at his unduly hostile introductory presser and then in subsequent interviews I now have a favorable opinion of him and look forward to what his tenure will bring. [Fair enough.]

Certainly I am reasonable enough not to declare him a poor hire before he has coached one game for Pitt. [Then certainly you must be reasonable enough to offer numbers, figures... something other than an interview or kind word spoken about him as evidence I'm wrong in thinking this hire stinks.]

The know it alls never do. [I wish I didn't know so much in this case. It's really frustrating to understand so clearly how lame this hire is and how poorly Barnes handled this process. Glad you're happy, though. Ignorance is bliss, as you clearly attest.]

 

[levance2]

Certainly I am reasonable enough not to declare him a poor hire before he has coached one game for Pitt.

There's a difference between a "poor hire" and poor results. Stallings is a poor hire, but I hope he gives us better results than his resume suggests.