I'm not trying to sound insincere, I am honestly curious. What did Pitt's chemical engineering undergrads so that provided 100's of millions for Pitt?
Stanford's McCaffrey is Skipping the Sun Bowl
- Thread starter UPitt '89
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Let's talk about the win over Georgia, which we took as proof that the Big East was some kind of real conference still. Did that win help them get in the SEC Five years later? No. How about the ACC? Nope. Despite shaking their asses at two P5 leagues for two years they had to scramble to make a deal with the Big 12-2. Conversely, Pitt bumbled and stumbled to a 3-0 loss in the Sun Bowl and traveled roughly nine people to the Tire Bowl the next year and got an ACC invite.
Remember what happened the year after WVU 70'd Clemson? They lost to mighty Syracuse in the Pinstripe bowl. Think of Syracuse as an equal now because of it? Me neither.
But you are quoting deal terms which are not actually factual.
His grant/scholarship doesn't hold him responsible for participating in games, so no, those situations are not the same. Cole's contract is directly contingent on him playing when the team tells him to play.
Oh, you mean like University of Phoenix graduate Larry Phitzgerald did.
But those aren't the terms of his deal, or the deal of any college football player. The terms of the deal don't require him to participate in the bowl game. The school can choose not to renew a scholarship, but not cancel it or demand repayment. You're typical of someone who doesn't read a contract but thinks they know what it says because they "get the gist of it."
Let's say you were interviewing for a project management job at Pitt, participating in a multi-million dollar project, and at the end of the interview they said, 'Well, we won't give you a salary, but we'll give you room/board and tuition remission'. Do you take that job? Now imagine that every university 'pays' that way, and your career prospects are contingent upon working at a university. Is that not a terrible system?
Chevron gave 40 million alone to work on permeability through porous media, and of course donated 100 million dollars a few years prior to that, that is just one branch of one department of chemical engineering, Did you want to know more specifics about the actual project?
And the choice is purely ostensible. All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious: it's a rotten deal, and it's one that they have to take if they want to be a professional athlete. By your logic, any deal is OK so long as the parties weren't literally forced to make it, and that is pure idiocy.
Yeah, of course, I would have loved that. Having school free in exchange of handling a project? Basically the professors handled project management for all our projects though, we were just the team, so to speak.
hahahaha that has nothing to do with Pitt undergrads. Even less to do with the students that were undergrads when the donation was made.
But you're right. The people at Chevron were so impressed by the 19-year old kids they saw in the classrooms and donated $100 million in cash with no strings attached. Oh wait...that's not at all what happened.
'Would have'? No, I'm talking about right now, when a college degree is not something you necessarily need or want (since, you know, professional football players don't need college degrees). Do you take that job?
Well, you are barking up the wrong tree with me, I already said I dont even think players need to go to college at all, they should be able to go straight to pro, or play one year, or whatever.
Just think you should finish out the year. Unless, you are already injured, and perhaps do not want to let the scouts know you are injured. Like I said, you never know what the whole story is.
huh? What are you talking about?
Your tone looks as if you are either angry or being rude for no reason at all. But yes, the grant was for the undergrad school, or course the professors run it. Are you trying to say that if a certain football player wasnt on a team like penn state or Stanford or wherever that that school would lose 100s of millions of dollars?? Pretty sure with or without McCaffery the stands would be pretty filled.
But yes, obviously a university with a strong undergrad and grad program known for certain things will get more grants than schools not known for it. How is that a question? I dont understand what you are saying??? What is your actual argument? That football fans look at a bunch of 19 year old players before deciding which teams they like, then donate to that particular team?
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I am pretty sure professional football players do get paid. No, I wouldnt now since I already have a masters, no interest in getting a doctorate.
Are you saying that student athletes dont need degrees??
No, strictly speaking, student-athletes do not need a degree if they want to be professional athletes. And that is the point: free schooling would not be considered adequate compensation in any other field, so why is it considered adequate 'compensation' in college athletics? Sure, it is an extremely good idea for them to get a degree, but that does not mean it is just recompense in light of how much money they generate for the schools/conference/NCAA, especially since they can't even control their own likeness and imagery.
At his height in popularity, Tim Tebow could have earned well over a million dollars in endorsement deals while at UF, as could Johnny Manziel at A&M. How much did they really earn? Zilch, because while their schools and the SEC raked in that and more many times over, neither one of them were paid, nor could they monetize their fame.
Coaches and ADs make millions of dollars; the money is there. Players should be able to market and monetize their own image. The sacrosanct concept of 'amatuerism' is complete crap. The system is rotten, and the intrinsic value of a college education doesn't change that.
Balony... Tim Tebow could easily have quit and taken the endorsements.
And, what percent ever earn an NFL paycheck? 10%? If the chemical engineering school told me going in that only 10% of grads get a job in chemical engineering, I would be sure to have a fall back too.
College players should not get paid additionally. under 20 schools even broke an operating profit.
I'd love to see the voting patterns of different posters in this thread. How many denounce Obama and call for free and open markets while simultaneously supporting a system that denies athletes the right to compete for fair wages?
Yeah, well... I am a proud independent, and support Obama, Trump and support whoever the president is, but I think it is a school, I wouldnt want high school athletes making money, or little leaguers, or whatever. We are already one of the only countries to charge for universities, and now the average school adds hundreds of dollars per student for fees associated with athletics. It would be far worse if they were paid more than tuition.
It's pretty easy to make sure you don't make an operating profit when you spend $20 million a year improving school facilities that add to the financial benefit of the school, rather than the players.
A team like Iowa State is not a football powerhouse or what you'd consider a massive money-making football school. In 2014 they generated $33 million in direct football revenue and $26 million in concessions/memorabilia/misc sporting revenue . They had $15 million in total football expenses which include operating costs, student aid, coaching salaries, and recruiting costs. The rest of the expenses were from other sports or facilities.
So what happens in one seasons invalidates what happened the previous?
So if psu beats Pitt next season, that takes away from Pitt beating them this season? Would a loss to Syracuse next season take away this years Clemson win?
Okaaaaaayyyyy......
I guess Pitt was right to let Jackie Sherrill go, since he apparently was an irrelevant failure also.
(Sarcasm)
The point is these bowls have zero impact on perception. No one was welcoming WVU to a new conference with open arms because of its fiesta and sugar bowl wins. TCU was invited to the big 12 because they invested hundreds of millions in salaries and facilities,
Not because they beat Big Bert and Fatconsin in the Rose Bowl.
Bowls are something to put on tv to avoid talking to our families
False. Bowls are not exhibitions. It isn't 1936 anymore.
Exhibitions are games that don't count in the record book, like Pitt basketball playing UPJ or in the old days, Marathon Oil.
Non-playoff bowls are more equivalent to a post-season basketball tournament that goes nowhere ....maybe something like the NIT, and both bowls and NIT games count in the records books. Except that most bowls garner way more attention and coverage than the NIT championship game.
You're absolutely wrong. The deal is you get a schoiarship, you play when the team plays! You're completely off base. I've read more contracts, skippy, than you have newspapers.
Part of my pay is free college education, just like he is getting. He most certainly is getting paid.
Tuition remission is part of my pay. As for tuition remission not being acceptable, did he not know this going in? He most certainly is getting justly compensated for his labor, when he signed as a high school senior did he not know what he was playing for? If he didn't like it, maybe he should have done something else with his life. I'm assuming because his father played in the NFL he knew exactly what he was getting into.
What defies logic is this attitude that people have that they don't have to accept responsibility for anything or honor their commitments. Do you think soldiers are justly compensated? How about volunteer firefighters? A lot of people are not justly compensated for what they do, what makes him so special? Every player out there is one play away from having a career ending injury.
What's funny about this whole thing is even if he did get hurt and never played a down in the NFL he would probably still make more money than anyone on this board. His father played in the NFL and I'm sure he took care of his son financially.
What defies logic is this attitude that people have that they don't have to accept responsibility for anything or honor their commitments. Do you think soldiers are justly compensated? How about volunteer firefighters? A lot of people are not justly compensated for what they do, what makes him so special? Every player out there is one play away from having a career ending injury.
What's funny about this whole thing is even if he did get hurt and never played a down in the NFL he would probably still make more money than anyone on this board. His father played in the NFL and I'm sure he took care of his son financially.
The schools made the deal,too.
So your complaining is also unfounded.
The scholarship isn't contingent on playing.
End of story
It's contingent on playing except for injury...you arbitrarily decide you don't want to play any more then you lose your scholarship...simple as that. What do you think the legal consideration is for the promise by the school to foot the bill for your tuition and room and board? Show up at school then declare, by the way, I don't want to play any more. You're in La, La land.
The only one in la-la land is you. Countless people have told you you're wrong and yet you continue to argue. You're the hammerheaded drunk uncle who insists he's right even though actual facts have smacked him in the face and proven him to be wrong.
Is college football a big business? Absolutely, but the notion that the players constitute that business is somewhat false. We love college football because of tradition and our alma maters and location growing up, among other things. It would make no difference to me or most others if McCaffery played for Pitt or it was James Conner... or if delpanther was our running back, I would still cheer for, and spend money on Pitt football.
But, colleges make money based on far far more things. Football may pay the bills for other athletics, but it hardly pays the bills for the university. If 90,000 undergrads go to psu at 20,000 dollars a year, that is 1,800,000,000 dollars a year going to the school (yeah, I realize probably 10,000 of them are on some scholarship, but you get the point). Plus, as I mentioned, most corporations, in some way have cooporative agreements with some university, and those are about 20-30 billion dollars per year.
But, colleges make money based on far far more things. Football may pay the bills for other athletics, but it hardly pays the bills for the university. If 90,000 undergrads go to psu at 20,000 dollars a year, that is 1,800,000,000 dollars a year going to the school (yeah, I realize probably 10,000 of them are on some scholarship, but you get the point). Plus, as I mentioned, most corporations, in some way have cooporative agreements with some university, and those are about 20-30 billion dollars per year.
Lol....think he will be ok if he played??
McCaffrey has a $5 million disability policy if he became injured and unable to play, which means he would collect a tax-free $5 million, a source told ESPN's Darren Rovell. He also has a $3 million loss of value policy and could start collecting if an injury caused him to slip past the 40th overall pick, according to the source.
McCaffrey has a $5 million disability policy if he became injured and unable to play, which means he would collect a tax-free $5 million, a source told ESPN's Darren Rovell. He also has a $3 million loss of value policy and could start collecting if an injury caused him to slip past the 40th overall pick, according to the source.
No, it is not. You obviously have no idea about the terms of those grants.
No, it is not. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The schools could make it like that, but then they will lose the court battles and will end up having to pay them accordingly.
You could say the same thing about fans of NFL, MLB, NHL or NBA teams. People are fans mostly for their geographic location. Less than 7% of Pennsylvanian's are PSU alumni, do you really think less than 7% of Pennsylvanian's consider themselves PSU fans? So if people ally themselves with teams based on geographic location, do the professional players not deserve the same protections and bargaining powers afforded to employees in other occupations? After all, their fans are going to watch and attend those games no matter what because it's tradition.
I mean, have you been to a Pitt home game when they play a lesser team or aren't doing well. The place is at 100% capacity and filled with people there because of tradition, alumni allegiance and location of the franchise. /s
To your second point. University of Pittsburgh isn't a sports cash powerhouse, but still brought in around $50 million in football/basketball in 2014. That's what, 33% of the state funding the University receives? Not exactly chump change.
For your PSU example, each of those undergrads at PSU generate $20,000 per year for the university, less if you average out the scholarship students that generate $0 in operating income. Meanwhile each of those 85 scholarship students playing football generate about $1 million each. If you include all operating expenses and coaching salaries associated with football, it's still ~$700,000/ year. So the remaining ~$650,000 is spent on other sports, athletes and university owned property constructed to keep sports revenue neutral. Corporate money follows graduate programs and professors/researchers, not undergrads.
Most Americans demand that every facet of their life be based on meritocracy. Everything except college sports.
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You and your buddy don't have any idea what you're talking about.. you're in over your head..which isn't difficult for you.
So, Del, what do the grants say? What language is used to say that the players must play in the games, as a condition of their aid?
What contracts do you negotiate? What is your experience?
Oh, contracts that involve consideration in excess of a billion dollars, Skippy...so you are suggesting that a player can be awarded a scholarship as a freshman and report to school and decide unilaterally to give up FB and retain his scholarship? That's your legal position, Chief Justice?
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