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Suffering

17-15

Freshman
Gold Member
Oct 14, 2001
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It was a beautiful thing to watch Virginia play the greatest game in the world the way it was meant to be played. It would have taken a very good basketball team to have kept up with Virginia today. They were sound and disciplined, patient and calm, and nothing came easy against them at either end of the court.

Many Pitt teams would have kept up with this Virginia team. They might have won, maybe not, but they would have kept up. This Pitt team could not. Whatever it is that knits a basketball team together, this Pitt team does not have enough of it to keep up with a team as good as Virginia.

Some of it is physical. Not enough at center. Not quite enough at guard. But it is more than that. That was not a physical mismatch today, which was the hardest part.

This Pitt team has had its moments. It can run a track meet with just about anyone. There is only one college basketball team in the United States that has won at Notre Dame this year. That team is not North Carolina, which certainly can run a track meet with anyone, and which lost there today. It is the University of Pittsburgh, and it was a beautiful performance. It happened. I know. I was there. It’s part of the story, the body of work if you prefer that hoary phrase. It counts, as does a gritty win at Florida State and a few others.

But it’s not the whole story. The whole story, so far, includes five double figure losses, three of them at home. To teams that played stronger, more physical, more focused, more disciplined, more organized basketball than they did. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt used to play. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach takes pride in playing. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach has been trying desperately to get his team to play for two seasons now.

Although he clearly is suffering, and I feel for him, I am not worried about the Pitt basketball coach. Someday, hopefully many, many years from now, he will finish his time at Pitt. When he does, he will look back on all of it. There already is a lot of water under the bridge, his body of work if you will. Given his nature, he will think more about the seasons that did not go well than the seasons that did. The teams he just could not reach. But, if he has any perspective, he also will know that he did his job passionately and very well, that he built a basketball program at a school that had never really had one, that he gave his teams, his program and his school his full effort, that his teams honored the game of basketball and, in sharp contrast to so many of his prominent peers, that he was a credit to his sport and his university.

Plus, he gets paid a lot of money and that kind of suffering comes with the territory.

My worry is elsewhere. For a different kind of suffering.

About a year ago, I had lunch with a friend who lives in another city, with whom I had some professional dealings. A lawyer in his mid-60’s nearing the end of a distinguished career. Although I did not know him well, he told me something that was very interesting to me and, it seemed clear, very important to him. As it happened he was an All-American in track in college, more than 40 years ago. As he put it, he was a good lawyer, but he was a gifted runner, more gifted as a runner than he ever was in anything else.

As much as he put into his running, 40 years later, he had regrets. Hard regrets. That he could have done more, that there was another gear that he could have found. Hard enough regrets to tell a casual friend.

For us, this is only this year’s team. We will look back, sure, but we will look back all of the teams. This will just be one more. Next year there will be another team and we will move on. Some of us will move on to a new set of hopes and dreams, others to a new set of grievances.

But for the players on the team, especially the veteran players, this is their team. This is the team they will look back on for the rest of their lives. I think they are better than they have played. I think there is more there. I think there is another gear and I hope they find it.
 
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I hope they do too. It seems a shame to waste the talent they do have. Contrary to what many believe, there is still talent on this team. However, they need to become mentally and physically tougher and work together as one unit on both O and D.

There is at least 1 breakdown by a player on just about every possession.

Then on O, either James or Mike holds on to the ball too long. At the start of the year, Mike handled the double perfectly and kicked it out as soon as the double would come. Now he either back pedals away from it or let's himself get trapped and passes too late. He's trying to do too much.
 
It was a beautiful thing to watch Virginia play the greatest game in the world the way it was meant to be played. It would have taken a very good basketball team to have kept up with Virginia today. They were sound and disciplined, patient and calm, and nothing came easy against them at either end of the court.

Many Pitt teams would have kept up with this Virginia team. They might have won, maybe not, but they would have kept up. This Pitt team could not. Whatever it is that knits a basketball team together, this Pitt team does not have enough of it to keep up with a team as good as Virginia.

Some of it is physical. Not enough at center. Not quite enough at guard. But it is more than that. That was not a physical mismatch today, which was the hardest part.

This Pitt team has had its moments. It can run a track meet with just about anyone. There is only one college basketball team in the United States that has won at Notre Dame this year. That team is not North Carolina, which certainly can run a track meet with anyone, and which lost there today. It is the University of Pittsburgh, and it was a beautiful performance. It happened. I know. I was there. It’s part of the story, the body of work if you prefer that hoary phrase. It counts, as does a gritty win at Florida State and a few others.

But it’s not the whole story. The whole story, so far, includes five double figure losses, three of them at home. To teams that played stronger, more physical, more focused, more disciplined, more organized basketball than they did. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt used to play. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach takes pride in playing. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach has been trying desperately to get his team to play for two seasons now.

Although he clearly is suffering, and I feel for him, I am not worried about the Pitt basketball coach. Someday, hopefully many, many years from now, he will finish his time at Pitt. When he does, he will look back on all of it. There already is a lot of water under the bridge, his body of work if you will. Given his nature, he will think more about the seasons that did not go well than the seasons that did. The teams he just could not reach. But, if he has any perspective, he also will know that he did his job passionately and very well, that he built a basketball program at a school that had never really had one, that he gave his teams, his program and his school his full effort, that his teams honored the game of basketball and, in sharp contrast to so many of his prominent peers, that he was a credit to his sport and his university.

Plus, he gets paid a lot of money and that kind of suffering comes with the territory.

My worry is elsewhere. For a different kind of suffering.

About a year ago, I had lunch with a friend who lives in another city, with whom I had some professional dealings. A lawyer in his mid-60’s nearing the end of a distinguished career. Although I did not know him well, he told me something that was very interesting to me and, it seemed clear, very important to him. As it happened he was an All-American in track in college, more than 40 years ago. As he put it, he was a good lawyer, but he was a gifted runner, more gifted as a runner than he ever was in anything else.

As much as he put into his running, 40 years later, he had regrets. Hard regrets. That he could have done more, that there was another gear that he could have found. Hard enough regrets to tell a casual friend.

For us, this is only this year’s team. We will look back, sure, but we will look back all of the teams. This will just be one more. Next year there will be another team and we will move on. Some of us will move on to a new set of hopes and dreams, others to a new set of grievances.

But for the players on the team, especially the veteran players, this is their team. This is the team they will look back on for the rest of their lives. I think they are better than they have played. I think there is more there. I think there is another gear and I hope they find it.

I always find perspective and comfort in your words.
 
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Could it just be that Virginia and most every team in the ACC is just....really good?

I mean, we wanted the ACC for all of the reasons that we all know about but, this league BB *and* FB - game in and out can be an absolute gauntlet.

Every single team has a good coach - good players etc - Virginia is *really* good.

I told Mrs. NC Panther early on in the game yesterday that "we're not beating this team" - too good - too well coached.

They can black out all of Oakland...won't matter.

All this talk about Dixon on the hot seat (not the OP's post) but....please with all of that.

Can we all have some perspective?

Look at what he's done at Pitt - think about it.

Do we all think that Dixon can't coach all of a sudden?

Bennett was on the hot seat a couple of years ago and Ron Rivera for God's sake was this close to getting canned *last* year!

We're the only team that beat ND on the road this year - after that game, I'm sure all ND fans were calling for Brey's head and then he beats #5 UNC yesterday.

Brey and coach Dixon are good men - Dixon is a Pitt man - when he was on top a few years ago, he did what all coaches do, he parlayed his leverage to a better contract when the overtures came but....he stayed and I for one am very glad he did.

Pitt BB fans have become spoiled plain and simple.

All that said...I think we bounce back - the next two games...wow - remember the "G" word above.

But, I think we make the dance - 10 wins is the magic # as some have suggested

So we had a bad game yesterday against a truly *great* team that could go easily go to the Final Four - they're that good and that well coached. It's ok.

All of the Robinson haters...you'll get your wish next year - he gone.

I don't think we're done this year though - a lot of ups and downs in a BB season

Next year, Wilson will be that much better - Kithcart and Manigault look like real recruiting steals and w/ Young, Jeter and Artis back - maybe Ro makes an impact at the 5 spot?

I'm optimistic!

But, it's a tough tough league.

Remember what Aaron Rodgers said...R-E-L-A-X.

Ok - take your shots.
 
Could it just be that Virginia and most every team in the ACC is just....really good?

I mean, we wanted the ACC for all of the reasons that we all know about but, this league BB *and* FB - game in and out can be an absolute gauntlet.

Every single team has a good coach - good players etc - Virginia is *really* good.

I told Mrs. NC Panther early on in the game yesterday that "we're not beating this team" - too good - too well coached.

They can black out all of Oakland...won't matter.

All this talk about Dixon on the hot seat (not the OP's post) but....please with all of that.

Can we all have some perspective?

Look at what he's done at Pitt - think about it.

Do we all think that Dixon can't coach all of a sudden?

Bennett was on the hot seat a couple of years ago and Ron Rivera for God's sake was this close to getting canned *last* year!

We're the only team that beat ND on the road this year - after that game, I'm sure all ND fans were calling for Brey's head and then he beats #5 UNC yesterday.

Brey and coach Dixon are good men - Dixon is a Pitt man - when he was on top a few years ago, he did what all coaches do, he parlayed his leverage to a better contract when the overtures came but....he stayed and I for one am very glad he did.

Pitt BB fans have become spoiled plain and simple.

All that said...I think we bounce back - the next two games...wow - remember the "G" word above.

But, I think we make the dance - 10 wins is the magic # as some have suggested

So we had a bad game yesterday against a truly *great* team that could go easily go to the Final Four - they're that good and that well coached. It's ok.

All of the Robinson haters...you'll get your wish next year - he gone.

I don't think we're done this year though - a lot of ups and downs in a BB season

Next year, Wilson will be that much better - Kithcart and Manigault look like real recruiting steals and w/ Young, Jeter and Artis back - maybe Ro makes an impact at the 5 spot?

I'm optimistic!

But, it's a tough tough league.

Remember what Aaron Rodgers said...R-E-L-A-X.

Ok - take your shots.
I think this team has talent, but it lacks fire and heart. Rarely are any of the players diving for loose balls, or they do, it's half-hearted. They give up too many uncontested layups-dunks. They settle for contested jump shots. There are no aggressive drives to the basket. Chris Jones should just sit the rest of the season as he brings nothing on either end of the court. Let Wilson and Johnson play and gain experience. I think Maia is the only player who plays with toughness, but he was relegated to the bench yesterday. This team is maddening to watch-win by a lot, lose by a lot. So inconsistent, and yet they look like they don't care.
 
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NC - appreciate your calm in all the upheaval after a really bad loss to another good team. BUT, would like your thoughts on a couple things.

This team is suffering severely from Dixon's (and his assistants) inability to recruit top 20 talent. We have one of the worst PG's in the ACC and no center two years in a row. That is 100% on Dixon. Further, it looks to me like he's lost this team emotionally for the second year in a row. Constant mental breakdowns by at least one player on almost every possession, inability to cover the other team's best player or players, very limited ability to create our own shots individually, etc.

By all accounts, Jamie has had a lot of success across his career, but you can't deny what's happened the last few years. Plain and simple we are not fast enough, quick enough or big enough to be consistent in the ACC or against other top 20 teams. That is 100% on Dixon.

Now, if you buy the premise that he is a great X's and O's coach (which I do), then you have to also have your eyes open to his own personal ability to connect and "sell" Pitt to top players and you certainly have to be critical of his hiring and coddling of assistants who can't help. If a great CEO knows he has a weakness he surrounds himself with others that fill those gaps. Jamie has not made up for his weaknesses by hiring assistants that fill the gaps. Again, that's 100% on Dixon.

Barnes is a basketball guy, so he can't be happy with what he sees.
 
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This team doesnt have enough talent to win consistently against the better teams They essentially have two legit P5 players in Young and Artis and niether one good enough to carry the team on their back

When your starting guards score 2 points.............and dont create offense for others you are in big trouble IMO that is the biggerst problem with this team. They lack the guards you need to win at the college level They coud win with James if they had a two guard that fills up the bucket.............or if they had a PG who could create for others and score more consistently, they could live with SS..........Just cant afford to have virtually zero production from both the 2 and PG. When this team was playing at a high level offensivley James was more of a factor In general as the level of competition and athleticism has increased hes dissappeared. Just impossible to win without a scoring threat from both guards.

Compoiundimg the lack of productio from the guards is that they dont have a physical presence in side. Add a Gary McGee type Center and this team is far more competitive. Mike and Jamal are both more finesse type players and dont intimidate anyone. Jeter is a mystery as he appears to be pretty athetic but is as soft as tissue paper

This team just does not have enought legitimate P5 Talent The only hope for this year is James somehow regains confidence in his shot and goes on a tear.....but there really isnt any history of that happening against Higher level competitio to think that will occur.......... The promisig start is proving to be an illusion. The two Bigs and Smith were playing at Non p5 schools for a reason James excellent early play was against cupcakes on the schedule

Hopefully the kids they have coming in will be able to supplment the talent Pitt has in Artis and Young and they return to the Tourney next year Right now, it doesnt appear as though they have enough talent around those two to make the Tourney. The odds of getting to 10 wins do not look good
 
NC - appreciate your calm in all the upheaval after a really bad loss to another good team. BUT, would like your thoughts on a couple things.

This team is suffering severely from Dixon's (and his assistants) inability to recruit top 20 talent. We have one of the worst PG's in the ACC and no center two years in a row. That is 100% on Dixon. Further, it looks to me like he's lost this team emotionally for the second year in a row. Constant mental breakdowns by at least one player on almost every possession, inability to cover the other team's best player or players, very limited ability to create our own shots individually, etc.

By all accounts, Jamie has had a lot of success across his career, but you can't deny what's happened the last few years. Plain and simple we are not fast enough, quick enough or big enough to be consistent in the ACC or against other top 20 teams. That is 100% on Dixon.

Now, if you buy the premise that he is a great X's and O's coach (which I do), then you have to also have your eyes open to his own personal ability to connect and "sell" Pitt to top players and you certainly have to be critical of his hiring and coddling of assistants who can't help. If a great CEO knows he has a weakness he surrounds himself with others that fill those gaps. Jamie has not made up for his weaknesses by hiring assistants that fill the gaps. Again, that's 100% on Dixon.

Barnes is a basketball guy, so he can't be happy with what he sees.
I agree that Dixon is not a great recruiter but I think there's a big reason for this - we don't have players in the NBA.

And, we won't get the top players unless we do somehow - someway - your classic Catch-22.

The assistants....who knows how good they are not only regarding recruiting but also on the X's and O's.

If Dante Taylor had blown up like we all expected and had gone on to have a great NBA career...man, that would have helped.

We missed on him and that really hurt.

I mean, there's only so many players w/ top 20 talent as you referred to and they all seemingly go to the same schools year after year.

I don't know what Bill Barton does - none of us do.

Smoke was brought in to recruit his ties in Michigan and specifically to get Winston who would have been a game changer.

When we missed on him - I don't know how much Williamson could ever offer at getting Michigan players away from Michigan State and Michigan.

Brandin - I mean, who knows.

Does it really come down to dollars?

Meaning are we whiffing on the Diallos and Winstons because of that as some have suggested?

I don't think that's it - it *was* - in the late '70's and early 80's - Gore, Faulkner etc - no question $ changed hands.

Now, I think it's all about $ in a different way - who can get me to the NBA - Izzo, Self, etc etc etc.... or Jamie Dixon.

Imo, we have to get lucky in that Artis, Young, Kithcart or all of them blow up and somehow end up in the NBA.

Then, Dixon can hang that on his wall.

We just don't have players in the NBA.

Pitt can sell FB recruits not only on our legacy players but current players - 4 in this year's Pro Bowl - 8 in the NFL HOF - I mean, that's strong.

Great BB recruits are looking at one thing in this $ driven society - which program and coach can get me to the NBA.

Opposing coaches are saying..."Pitt's a fine school and they have a really nice program and stress defense but, if you want to get to the NBA, look at our team's success."

To me, that's the primary reason why we don't get the top players.
 
Here's some perspective: Va. is a good team and not a great team( a ridiculous assertion) as evidenced by very modest inside talent; when Pitt played and competed for league titles in the BE, the BE was at least as good as the ACC is now and probably better than the ACC; no, coaches don't forget how to coach but some fail to evolve to deal with both trends in the game and the way recruiting is conducted and, after short term success, simply die on the vine, which is what appears to be happening with Pitt's HC; Dixon's job isn't in jeopardy not because of his stellar past record but simply because the length of his contract makes jettisoning him virtually cost prohibitive; the measure of any coach is whether the team plays to its ability and while this team is flawed, there's no excuse for double digit losses of the frequency this team has suffered them to both good and middling teams; this team has no leadership despite the great amount of experience on the roster; and this team has not improved a lick from December until present and there are several players on this team who haven't improved at all and perhaps gotten worse after having been with this coaching staff for 4 years.

For many years, it was clear there was no light at the end of the tunnel on the FB side? Why? It was patently clear that the HC's before Narduzzi had to plan, no vision and had significant "blind spots" in terms of the requisite components of building a FB team and program. It starts with understanding your strengths as a HC and supplementing what you bring to the table with an able staff, a staff that reflects both recruiting and day to day coaching acumen. Then you need to understand what the holes are on your roster, which are critical and you need to fill those holes "yesterday". Third, you need to appreciate that no team operates well without an engine-on a FB team, the engine's a QB and on a BB team, it's the PG. And last, you need to develop players particuarly at positions where your recruiting has been less productive. If you can't recruit an elite QB, then you better get a kid with the raw ability to be good and develop him.

For at least the last 5 years, Dixon has simply shown he doesn't get it. His staff is a mess and out of a sense of loyalty and/or timidity, he's lived with a collection of mediocrity. Dixon is not a good recruiter or a guy who seems to be able to teach D-who on his staff compensates for his weaknesses? Dixon's teams haven't had a competent SG or a PF for, not a season or two, but for years. And if your tendency is to reply that Mike Young is a PF, well his game isn't that of a PF-he's a long 3 who doesn't like physical BB and whose lack of physicality is even more pronounced because Pitt has no center. And then we have the team engine. All i can say is that there is absolutely NO HC worth his salt who would have watched JR the last 4 years and insisted on tying his fate to this guy as his team engine, the team catalyst, the team leader. The best coaches in today's game would have gotten a second PG and used JR as a part time player-that's what he should have been. Pitt's roster is a complete mess. Once upon a time it seemed that Dixon could compensate for his teams' collective lack of talent with teams who played their butts off and good player development. Neither of these former factors are any longer team staples. I don't see a coach with a plan or a coach that understands he has had some blind spots. I see a coach who's flailing and flailing in every way-recruiting, player development and game day coaching. Without some big changes, Dixon is done! His contract, however, will give him ample opportunity to prove whether the game's passed him by or he that he can still put together a program. Most coaches don't have the length of rope that Dixon's contract gives him. The next couple of years will either be a rebirth of Pitt BB or a period of extreme frustration for the fanbase because by the middle to the end of next year, the ultimate writing will be on the wall regardless of what time Dixon's contract affords him.
 
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It was a beautiful thing to watch Virginia play the greatest game in the world the way it was meant to be played. It would have taken a very good basketball team to have kept up with Virginia today. They were sound and disciplined, patient and calm, and nothing came easy against them at either end of the court.

Many Pitt teams would have kept up with this Virginia team. They might have won, maybe not, but they would have kept up. This Pitt team could not. Whatever it is that knits a basketball team together, this Pitt team does not have enough of it to keep up with a team as good as Virginia.

Some of it is physical. Not enough at center. Not quite enough at guard. But it is more than that. That was not a physical mismatch today, which was the hardest part.

This Pitt team has had its moments. It can run a track meet with just about anyone. There is only one college basketball team in the United States that has won at Notre Dame this year. That team is not North Carolina, which certainly can run a track meet with anyone, and which lost there today. It is the University of Pittsburgh, and it was a beautiful performance. It happened. I know. I was there. It’s part of the story, the body of work if you prefer that hoary phrase. It counts, as does a gritty win at Florida State and a few others.

But it’s not the whole story. The whole story, so far, includes five double figure losses, three of them at home. To teams that played stronger, more physical, more focused, more disciplined, more organized basketball than they did. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt used to play. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach takes pride in playing. Exactly the kind of basketball that Pitt’s coach has been trying desperately to get his team to play for two seasons now.

Although he clearly is suffering, and I feel for him, I am not worried about the Pitt basketball coach. Someday, hopefully many, many years from now, he will finish his time at Pitt. When he does, he will look back on all of it. There already is a lot of water under the bridge, his body of work if you will. Given his nature, he will think more about the seasons that did not go well than the seasons that did. The teams he just could not reach. But, if he has any perspective, he also will know that he did his job passionately and very well, that he built a basketball program at a school that had never really had one, that he gave his teams, his program and his school his full effort, that his teams honored the game of basketball and, in sharp contrast to so many of his prominent peers, that he was a credit to his sport and his university.

Plus, he gets paid a lot of money and that kind of suffering comes with the territory.

My worry is elsewhere. For a different kind of suffering.

About a year ago, I had lunch with a friend who lives in another city, with whom I had some professional dealings. A lawyer in his mid-60’s nearing the end of a distinguished career. Although I did not know him well, he told me something that was very interesting to me and, it seemed clear, very important to him. As it happened he was an All-American in track in college, more than 40 years ago. As he put it, he was a good lawyer, but he was a gifted runner, more gifted as a runner than he ever was in anything else.

As much as he put into his running, 40 years later, he had regrets. Hard regrets. That he could have done more, that there was another gear that he could have found. Hard enough regrets to tell a casual friend.

For us, this is only this year’s team. We will look back, sure, but we will look back all of the teams. This will just be one more. Next year there will be another team and we will move on. Some of us will move on to a new set of hopes and dreams, others to a new set of grievances.

But for the players on the team, especially the veteran players, this is their team. This is the team they will look back on for the rest of their lives. I think they are better than they have played. I think there is more there. I think there is another gear and I hope they find it.

17-15, you never fail to put into words exactly what I'm feeling as a Pitt fan and a Pitt basketball fan. I couldn't have said it any better. I agree with every word and really appreciate your perspective and sense of reality.
 
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Sorry NC Panther, nice detailed post but I disagree with just about everything in it.
Poke, I'm very disappointed that this team so often fails to reach their potential. They ARE flawed and missing several pieces to beat good teams. Everybody knew that coming in. We were looking for improvement from last season abd we've had that. Several guys who looked like they coud help us be even better earlier have regressed, not improved as Dixon players usually do.With this group, eEverything has to go perfectly to win against talented opponents. For one half, Artis and Young were able to carry the team on their backs, but after the break, Virginia adjusted and Pitt had no answers.

But, to be serious, have you ever been right about anythng on here? You overreact to everything, particularly on the negative side.

The Virginia team is made up of guys like Pitt used to recruit, before we started reaching for 5-stars or guys with big upsides. We NEVER recruited a team of players expected to be on a Top 20 team. We recruited a certain type of player and coached them up. Virginia plays a defensive style like we used to play, and most of our critics decry. They ARE Pitt, from about 5 or 6 years ago.

Assuming we want to get back to a top 25 program, this patchwork roster will not get us there. The junior class is what we have to work with now. Next season there will be some additions and the following year the roster will almost completely be turned over. There will be different players with different abilities. We may and almost certainly will take a step or two backwards playing with a much younger roster. Maybe we will ultimately be better and maybe we have reached a plateau. Time will tell.

It is what it is. For what its worth, recruiting top players doesn't guarantee Top 25 status, even if you have a great coach. Duke , with the acknowledged best coach in college basketball in Coach K, is outsde the top 25 right now. They have recruited Grayson Allen, 4-* ranked #25 in his class, 5-* Brandin Ingram, 4-* Amile Jefferson, 5-* Chase Jeter, 4-* Matt Jones, 5-* Luke Kennard, 4-* Mason Plumlee and 5-* Derryck Thornton. And, they are tied with Pitt at 6-4 today.

You and many Pitt fans simply lack perspective.
 
With regards to recruiting I always like to point out if you were a top 20 top 50 kid playing bb in WPa where would you go? Would you really pick Pitt over Duke ,UNC, ND, Kentuckey etc. I don't think so. So why would you expect a great player from another area to choose Pitt over them ? It's not as an easy sell as some of you on here think. Is Pitts entire staff incompetent as some suggest I don't think so. I just think Pitt lost its way trying to recruit the top talent overestimating the appeal of the ACC. Pitt needs to get back to the formula that worked ,strong ,tough ,mature (5 yr guys ) who play defense and rebound . Mix in a couple offensively talented guys and now you have Pitt bb. Pitt cannot recruit the players Duke ,UNC, Louisville etc can so why try to play their game with less talented players. Why not present them with a team they dread to play a physically tough team that plays D and rebounds . Sometimes different is better. Trying to out punch a puncher or out box a boxer is never a good idea unless your the more talented of the two and Pitts never going to have the most talented team in the ACC.
 
Willard, horrible coach, had no issues getting top kids here, none of the past coaches did until Dixon.
 
I hope they do too. It seems a shame to waste the talent they do have. Contrary to what many believe, there is still talent on this team. However, they need to become mentally and physically tougher and work together as one unit on both O and D.

There is at least 1 breakdown by a player on just about every possession.

Then on O, either James or Mike holds on to the ball too long. At the start of the year, Mike handled the double perfectly and kicked it out as soon as the double would come. Now he either back pedals away from it or let's himself get trapped and passes too late. He's trying to do too much.

BJ ..... I agree that we have talent but some things that we have to realize .... 1) Every team in the ACC has talent ..... 2) We don't have the type talent that the top teams in the ACC have..... 3) The coaches in the ACC are overall top notch ..... which means the coach with the most talent, in general, has the advantage.

I hope this is not the case (and I don't necessarily believe it) but the other possibility is that we actually are playing close to as mentally and physically tough as these players can which if the case would be quite humbling. We need to play better (and we need to do it now) or I fear we may be headed to the NIT .... at this time I have not given up hope for the best but time is running short.
 
Willard, horrible coach, had no issues getting top kids here, none of the past coaches did until Dixon.
Yes, I remember all of those top-ten classes that Willard, Howland, Evans, Chipman, Grgurich and Ridl were bringing in every year. And all of the great teams that they had - final fours, etc.
 
BJ ..... I agree that we have talent but some things that we have to realize .... 1) Every team in the ACC has talent ..... 2) We don't have the type talent that the top teams in the ACC have..... 3) The coaches in the ACC are overall top notch ..... which means the coach with the most talent, in general, has the advantage.

I hope this is not the case (and I don't necessarily believe it) but the other possibility is that we actually are playing close to as mentally and physically tough as these players can which if the case would be quite humbling. We need to play better (and we need to do it now) or I fear we may be headed to the NIT .... at this time I have not given up hope for the best but time is running short.

Aside from Young and Artis, where is the talent on this team. Beyond Young and Artis there are a bunch of role players who are good enough for spot minutes but are not players who can compliment those two.
 
Here's some perspective: Va. is a good team and not a great team( a ridiculous assertion) as evidenced by very modest inside talent; when Pitt played and competed for league titles in the BE, the BE was at least as good as the ACC is now and probably better than the ACC; no, coaches don't forget how to coach but some fail to evolve to deal with both trends in the game and the way recruiting is conducted and, after short term success, simply die on the vine, which is what appears to be happening with Pitt's HC; Dixon's job isn't in jeopardy not because of his stellar past record but simply because the length of his contract makes jettisoning him virtually cost prohibitive; the measure of any coach is whether the team plays to its ability and while this team is flawed, there's no excuse for double digit losses of the frequency this team has suffered them to both good and middling teams; this team has no leadership despite the great amount of experience on the roster; and this team has not improved a lick from December until present and there are several players on this team who haven't improved at all and perhaps gotten worse after having been with this coaching staff for 4 years.

For many years, it was clear there was no light at the end of the tunnel on the FB side? Why? It was patently clear that the HC's before Narduzzi had to plan, no vision and had significant "blind spots" in terms of the requisite components of building a FB team and program. It starts with understanding your strengths as a HC and supplementing what you bring to the table with an able staff, a staff that reflects both recruiting and day to day coaching acumen. Then you need to understand what the holes are on your roster, which are critical and you need to fill those holes "yesterday". Third, you need to appreciate that no team operates well without an engine-on a FB team, the engine's a QB and on a BB team, it's the PG. And last, you need to develop players particuarly at positions where your recruiting has been less productive. If you can't recruit an elite QB, then you better get a kid with the raw ability to be good and develop him.

For at least the last 5 years, Dixon has simply shown he doesn't get it. His staff is a mess and out of a sense of loyalty and/or timidity, he's lived with a collection of mediocrity. Dixon is not a good recruiter or a guy who seems to be able to teach D-who on his staff compensates for his weaknesses? Dixon's teams haven't had a competent SG or a PF for, not a season or two, but for years. And if your tendency is to reply that Mike Young is a PF, well his game isn't that of a PF-he's a long 3 who doesn't like physical BB and whose lack of physicality is even more pronounced because Pitt has no center. And then we have the team engine. All i can say is that there is absolutely NO HC worth his salt who would have watched JR the last 4 years and insisted on tying his fate to this guy as his team engine, the team catalyst, the team leader. The best coaches in today's game would have gotten a second PG and used JR as a part time player-that's what he should have been. Pitt's roster is a complete mess. Once upon a time it seemed that Dixon could compensate for his teams' collective lack of talent with teams who played their butts off and good player development. Neither of these former factors are any longer team staples. I don't see a coach with a plan or a coach that understands he has had some blind spots. I see a coach who's flailing and flailing in every way-recruiting, player development and game day coaching. Without some big changes, Dixon is done! His contract, however, will give him ample opportunity to prove whether the game's passed him by or he that he can still put together a program. Most coaches don't have the length of rope that Dixon's contract gives him. The next couple of years will either be a rebirth of Pitt BB or a period of extreme frustration for the fanbase because by the middle to the end of next year, the ultimate writing will be on the wall regardless of what time Dixon's contract affords him.[/QUOTE

I think this is pretty accurate
 
No, Willard stunk as a head coach and was snake bitten as well. Evans as bad as he was, brought in better talent. Dixon can't recruit, face it , my God, defending him for everything is just being a Homer. He has major warts. If he doesn't get BK, other dead weight, off his bench soon, all will be looking for work in a year or 2
 
No, Willard stunk as a head coach and was snake bitten as well. Evans as bad as he was, brought in better talent. Dixon can't recruit, face it , my God, defending him for everything is just being a Homer. He has major warts. If he doesn't get BK, other dead weight, off his bench soon, all will be looking for work in a year or 2
I'd imagine you are the Resident expert on dead wood.
 
Poke, I'm very disappointed that this team so often fails to reach their potential. They ARE flawed and missing several pieces to beat good teams. Everybody knew that coming in. We were looking for improvement from last season abd we've had that. Several guys who looked like they coud help us be even better earlier have regressed, not improved as Dixon players usually do.With this group, eEverything has to go perfectly to win against talented opponents. For one half, Artis and Young were able to carry the team on their backs, but after the break, Virginia adjusted and Pitt had no answers.

But, to be serious, have you ever been right about anythng on here? You overreact to everything, particularly on the negative side.

The Virginia team is made up of guys like Pitt used to recruit, before we started reaching for 5-stars or guys with big upsides. We NEVER recruited a team of players expected to be on a Top 20 team. We recruited a certain type of player and coached them up. Virginia plays a defensive style like we used to play, and most of our critics decry. They ARE Pitt, from about 5 or 6 years ago.

Assuming we want to get back to a top 25 program, this patchwork roster will not get us there. The junior class is what we have to work with now. Next season there will be some additions and the following year the roster will almost completely be turned over. There will be different players with different abilities. We may and almost certainly will take a step or two backwards playing with a much younger roster. Maybe we will ultimately be better and maybe we have reached a plateau. Time will tell.

It is what it is. For what its worth, recruiting top players doesn't guarantee Top 25 status, even if you have a great coach. Duke , with the acknowledged best coach in college basketball in Coach K, is outsde the top 25 right now. They have recruited Grayson Allen, 4-* ranked #25 in his class, 5-* Brandin Ingram, 4-* Amile Jefferson, 5-* Chase Jeter, 4-* Matt Jones, 5-* Luke Kennard, 4-* Mason Plumlee and 5-* Derryck Thornton. And, they are tied with Pitt at 6-4 today.

You and many Pitt fans simply lack perspective.
Let me add one thing about UVA.....they play great, smart defense w/o an overpowering center, play a deliberate, no mistake offense.....but FINISH with outstanding shooters. I think their backcourt is head and shoulders above any other, anywhere, this year. As good as any I've seen for a while. There's a reason they were picked so high pre-season.
 
We have 3 recruits in our Fr. and So. class, and 2 of them had 0 Power 5 offers but all is well with recruiting. LOL - okay
Who said it was?

We clearly are flawed.

Inventing a narrative to explain it doesn't make it valid.
Dixon closed early on a couple of high ranked guards. Then lost each to more, let's say, whatever it takes coaches.

We've got a couple of well regarded kids inked for next year. Hopeful we add a post defender as well.

Dixon will live or die with the next couple classes.
His staff is his problem and he's accountable for the results.

I hope he turns it around, and if he doesn't a decision will have to be made.
 
[QUOTE

It is what it is. For what its worth, recruiting top players doesn't guarantee Top 25 status, even if you have a great coach. Duke , with the acknowledged best coach in college basketball in Coach K, is outsde the top 25 right now. They have recruited Grayson Allen, 4-* ranked #25 in his class, 5-* Brandin Ingram, 4-* Amile Jefferson, 5-* Chase Jeter, 4-* Matt Jones, 5-* Luke Kennard, 4-* Mason Plumlee and 5-* Derryck Thornton. And, they are tied with Pitt at 6-4 today.

You and many Pitt fans simply lack perspective.[/QUOTE]

Some of you would be absolutely terrific in politics.

We're down to making excuses for why it's okay to have the same record as mighty Duke who has played the entire ACC season without their best player. Pitt is also 6-4 against mainly the bottom half of the league. What would our record be if we'd played the entire ACC season without Mike Young?

If Pitt finishes within 3 games of Duke, I'll apologize for my statements.
 
[QUOTE

It is what it is. For what its worth, recruiting top players doesn't guarantee Top 25 status, even if you have a great coach. Duke , with the acknowledged best coach in college basketball in Coach K, is outsde the top 25 right now. They have recruited Grayson Allen, 4-* ranked #25 in his class, 5-* Brandin Ingram, 4-* Amile Jefferson, 5-* Chase Jeter, 4-* Matt Jones, 5-* Luke Kennard, 4-* Mason Plumlee and 5-* Derryck Thornton. And, they are tied with Pitt at 6-4 today.

You and many Pitt fans simply lack perspective.

Some of you would be absolutely terrific in politics.

We're down to making excuses for why it's okay to have the same record as mighty Duke who has played the entire ACC season without their best player. Pitt is also 6-4 against mainly the bottom half of the league. What would our record be if we'd played the entire ACC season without Mike Young?

If Pitt finishes within 3 games of Duke, I'll apologize for my statements.[/QUOTE]
Jefferson isn't their best player.
But he's a very important role player.
 
Could it just be that Virginia and most every team in the ACC is just....really good?

I mean, we wanted the ACC for all of the reasons that we all know about but, this league BB *and* FB - game in and out can be an absolute gauntlet.

Every single team has a good coach - good players etc - Virginia is *really* good.

I told Mrs. NC Panther early on in the game yesterday that "we're not beating this team" - too good - too well coached.

They can black out all of Oakland...won't matter.

All this talk about Dixon on the hot seat (not the OP's post) but....please with all of that.

Can we all have some perspective?

Look at what he's done at Pitt - think about it.

Do we all think that Dixon can't coach all of a sudden?

Bennett was on the hot seat a couple of years ago and Ron Rivera for God's sake was this close to getting canned *last* year!

We're the only team that beat ND on the road this year - after that game, I'm sure all ND fans were calling for Brey's head and then he beats #5 UNC yesterday.

Brey and coach Dixon are good men - Dixon is a Pitt man - when he was on top a few years ago, he did what all coaches do, he parlayed his leverage to a better contract when the overtures came but....he stayed and I for one am very glad he did.

Pitt BB fans have become spoiled plain and simple.

All that said...I think we bounce back - the next two games...wow - remember the "G" word above.

But, I think we make the dance - 10 wins is the magic # as some have suggested

So we had a bad game yesterday against a truly *great* team that could go easily go to the Final Four - they're that good and that well coached. It's ok.

All of the Robinson haters...you'll get your wish next year - he gone.

I don't think we're done this year though - a lot of ups and downs in a BB season

Next year, Wilson will be that much better - Kithcart and Manigault look like real recruiting steals and w/ Young, Jeter and Artis back - maybe Ro makes an impact at the 5 spot?

I'm optimistic!

But, it's a tough tough league.

Remember what Aaron Rodgers said...R-E-L-A-X.

Ok - take your shots.

We went toe to toe in the Big East. The Big East that included National Champions Syracuse and UConn (twice) and Louisville. Final 4 teams such as Villanova, Georgetown and WVU. We did fine. We beat them, more than they beat us. Year in, year out. This ACC is good, but it is not any better than the conference we came from. Maybe there isn't any DePaul's or South Florida's, but the top 10-12 teams each year were pretty damn good.

We are 7-24 against ranked teams since 2011. We used to beat ranked teams with regularity. The team isn't just that good anymore. For whatever reason, talent, coaching, whatever, the fact remains it ain't that good and the coach gets paid a lot of money to make it good. He is not doing that. Players aren't getting better. We are wilting in big moments. We are as mentally untough as we are physically. We aren't young anymore either.

You can draw whatever you want as a narrative, but the fact is, we are just another Georgia Tech or Florida State in this conference. But it is not a result of the ACC, it is a result of Pitt, the program and all that term entails.
 
Bet a case of yinzer IC, if we don't make ncaa this year or next and win a game , he is leaving.

You seem to have a very hard time accepting reality. Dixon is here for at least the next 3 years, win or lose. Considering his resume and character, the administration knows full well that replacing Dixon with anyone even half as competent is practically impossible. Yes, there are coaches in college basketball out there who can recruit better than Dixon, and some (very few) can coach a kid up as well as Dixon.

Understand that I'm not happy with the results of the last few years at all. But I also know if this administration is as smart as some say they are (the jury is still out on them as far as I'm concerned), no coaching changes will be made by them. If anything, Dixon will leave by his own choice because he got some astronomical offer somewhere else that we couldn't come close to matching. And even then and knowing Dixon, money may not be enough to make the change. He's the best coach at Pitt in any sport right now. Why would he be fired to replace him with someone that we have no idea if he'll be successful or capable of achieving what Dixon has? It's a huge risk and I don't think Gallagher or Barnes like that kind of risk.
 
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You seem to have a very hard time accepting reality. Dixon is here for at least the next 3 years, win or lose. Agree Its also in Pitts best interest that he turn things around Cutting him loose in three years would be painful

Considering his resume and character, the administration knows full well that replacing Dixon with anyone even half as competent is practically impossible. Yes, there are coaches in college basketball out there who can recruit better than Dixon, and some (very few) can coach a kid up as well as Dixon. VT was able to hire Buzz Williams Not sure why Pitt couldnt get a coach at least a good a BUzz who is a very good coach It always baffles me how Pitt fans think so lowly of the school they profess to be fans of. I think people confuse the toxic situation with SP at the helm with the attractiveness of the Pitt opportunity

Understand that I'm not happy with the results of the last few years at all. But I also know if this administration is as smart as some say they are (the jury is still out on them as far as I'm concerned), no coaching changes will be made by them. If anything, Dixon will leave by his own choice because he got some astronomical offer somewhere else that we couldn't come close to matching. JD isnt getting a mega contract from anyone if he doesnt turn things around significantly over the next three years.And even then and knowing Dixon, money may not be enough to make the change. He's the best coach at Pitt in any sport right now. Why would he be fired to replace him with someone that we have no idea if he'll be successful or capable of achieving what Dixon has? It's a huge risk and I don't think Gallagher or Barnes like that kind of risk.
 
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Poke, I'm very disappointed that this team so often fails to reach their potential. They ARE flawed and missing several pieces to beat good teams. Everybody knew that coming in. We were looking for improvement from last season abd we've had that. Several guys who looked like they coud help us be even better earlier have regressed, not improved as Dixon players usually do.With this group, eEverything has to go perfectly to win against talented opponents. For one half, Artis and Young were able to carry the team on their backs, but after the break, Virginia adjusted and Pitt had no answers.

But, to be serious, have you ever been right about anythng on here? You overreact to everything, particularly on the negative side.

The Virginia team is made up of guys like Pitt used to recruit, before we started reaching for 5-stars or guys with big upsides. We NEVER recruited a team of players expected to be on a Top 20 team. We recruited a certain type of player and coached them up. Virginia plays a defensive style like we used to play, and most of our critics decry. They ARE Pitt, from about 5 or 6 years ago.

Assuming we want to get back to a top 25 program, this patchwork roster will not get us there. The junior class is what we have to work with now. Next season there will be some additions and the following year the roster will almost completely be turned over. There will be different players with different abilities. We may and almost certainly will take a step or two backwards playing with a much younger roster. Maybe we will ultimately be better and maybe we have reached a plateau. Time will tell.

It is what it is. For what its worth, recruiting top players doesn't guarantee Top 25 status, even if you have a great coach. Duke , with the acknowledged best coach in college basketball in Coach K, is outsde the top 25 right now. They have recruited Grayson Allen, 4-* ranked #25 in his class, 5-* Brandin Ingram, 4-* Amile Jefferson, 5-* Chase Jeter, 4-* Matt Jones, 5-* Luke Kennard, 4-* Mason Plumlee and 5-* Derryck Thornton. And, they are tied with Pitt at 6-4 today.

You and many Pitt fans simply lack perspective.
There's nothing wrong with Pike's perspective. he knows a pig's eatr when he sees it. Yo
You seem to have a very hard time accepting reality. Dixon is here for at least the next 3 years, win or lose. Considering his resume and character, the administration knows full well that replacing Dixon with anyone even half as competent is practically impossible. Yes, there are coaches in college basketball out there who can recruit better than Dixon, and some (very few) can coach a kid up as well as Dixon.

Understand that I'm not happy with the results of the last few years at all. But I also know if this administration is as smart as some say they are (the jury is still out on them as far as I'm concerned), no coaching changes will be made by them. If anything, Dixon will leave by his own choice because he got some astronomical offer somewhere else that we couldn't come close to matching. And even then and knowing Dixon, money may not be enough to make the change. He's the best coach at Pitt in any sport right now. Why would he be fired to replace him with someone that we have no idea if he'll be successful or capable of achieving what Dixon has? It's a huge risk and I don't think Gallagher or Barnes like that kind of risk.

I think you're right that Dixon will be here for another 3 years. That's not because of his past record but because his contract makes it prohibitively expensive to give him the heave ho whether he deserves it or not. . Your suggestion that the Pitt administration knows that replacing him with "anyone half as competent is practically impossible" ranks right up there with the most profoundly stupid posts ever made on this Board.....so profoundly stupid it could have been made by either of the two most incompetent managers ever to touch Pitt athletics, the idiot twins, Nordenboob and Pedey boy. Pitt will do just fine when they part ways with JD.
 
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I remember when there was no problem with Jackie Sherril leaving , Pitt had a great assistant to set right in. How'd that work out ? Someday JD WILL LEAVE and then we'll see ,cry all you want about it ,but he'll leave on his terms. At the best for all the JD bashers might be a forced shakeup of the staff ,but with decreasing attendance will they flip for increased staff spending ?
 
I remember when there was no problem with Jackie Sherril leaving , Pitt had a great assistant to set right in. How'd that work out ? Someday JD WILL LEAVE and then we'll see ,cry all you want about it ,but he'll leave on his terms. At the best for all the JD bashers might be a forced shakeup of the staff ,but with decreasing attendance will they flip for increased staff spending ?
Dixon is no Jackie Sherrill for starters! He MAY leave on his terms or if the current trend continues he'll be shown the door, simple as that. All your drama is just BS!
 
There's nothing wrong with Pike's perspective. he knows a pig's eatr when he sees it. Yo


I think you're right that Dixon will be here for another 3 years. That's not because of his past record but because his contract makes it prohibitively expensive to give him the heave ho whether he deserves it or not. . Your suggestion that the Pitt administration knows that replacing him with "anyone half as competent is practically impossible" ranks right up there with the most profoundly stupid posts ever made on this Board.....so profoundly stupid it could have been made by either of the two most incompetent managers ever to touch Pitt athletics, the idiot twins, Nordenboob and Pedey boy. Pitt will do just fine when they part ways with JD.

You really need to quit posting about things you know nothing about, Del. You're no better than the braindead boobs on TOS who constantly slam Pitt and its administration while being totally ignorant of what really happened or is happening. You're willing to just toss the best coach Pitt has in any sport to the curb just because you think it's time. If Dixon leaves someday, it will be on his terms, not necessarily Pitt's. I know that rubs you the wrong way, but deal with it. It's reality.

So please don't talk about profoundly stupid posts, as you put it. You seem to have a monopoly in that department.

Get a life. This is just sports and entertainment, nothing more.
 
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