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The incident that changed the trajectory of the season

panther4life32

panther4life32

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Apr 29, 2018
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Coach Capel referred to this incident on the podcast. This incident changed our season.

Following the GT game at home where Trey had 14 points and 9 assists, he and X were challenged/confronted in the locker room by Toney regarding being “looked off” during the game and not getting the ball. This was after a great win! X was hit in the mele. That game, Toney scored 6 points on 2-7 shooting. X scored 11 points on 2-10. That is the last time X and Trey have both scored in double figures and their last win. That’s selfishness. Say what you want. All the games before the GT game, Toney averaged 6 attempts per game. Following the GT game, he has averaged 12 attempts per game. Trey, since the GT game, has averaged 6 shot attempts. X has not really changed his shot attempts so no real change with him. So if you look closely at Trey’s lack of scoring production, which is indicated by his low shot attempts, refer back to the GT post game altercation. This was the turning point of the season. The team was 6-7 in the league and knocking on the NCAA or NIT door.
He has given up his offensive game to be the glue to the team to keep the dysfunction to a minimum. I didn’t even included the disgruntled Murphy. If you have been to Pitt’s games and you sit anywhere close to the families, you will notice Toney’s mom screaming at players and coaches.
 
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Im not dismissing your post just a little confused.
About what went down. Obviously Capel said something happened after that game.
 
Ajntrw said:
I definitely think Murphy is part of the problem right now.
Click to expand...

If so he can go - no big loss. And if, and I emphasize IF that’s true about Toney he can get lost too.

Given some of the comments/quotes we’ve seen lately there’s something up. Hopefully Capel cleans house like Howland did - I realize they’re not the same issues but issues nonetheless - if there are troublemakers. It’ll be worth it long term to lay down the law.
 
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panther4life32 said:
Coach Capel referred to this incident on the podcast. This incident changed our season.

Following the GT game at home where Trey had 14 points and 9 assists, he and X were challenged/confronted in the locker room by Toney regarding being “looked off” during the game and not getting the ball. This was after a great win! X was hit in the mele. That game, Toney scored 6 points on 2-7 shooting. X scored 11 points on 2-10. That is the last time X and Trey have both scored in double figures and their last win. That’s selfishness. Say what you want. All the games before the GT game, Toney averaged 6 attempts per game. Following the GT game, he has averaged 12 attempts per game. Trey, since the GT game, has averaged 6 shot attempts. X has not really changed his shot attempts so no real change with him. So if you look closely at Trey’s lack of scoring production, which is indicated by his low shot attempts, refer back to the GT post game altercation. This was the turning point of the season. The team was 6-7 in the league and knocking on the NCAA or NIT door.
He has given up his offensive game to be the glue to the team to keep the dysfunction to a minimum. I didn’t even included the disgruntled Murphy. If you have been to Pitt’s games and you sit anywhere close to the families, you will notice Toney’s mom screaming at players and coaches.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to try to completely assess whether I believe what you’ve posted here tonight.

I will only say that over time I’ve come to learn that there is at least some truth to posts like this. Perhaps details are lost in the communication from one to another. But that doesn’t mean that this whole post was fabricated, or the general notion is untrue.

This much we do know ...

We didn’t play good team basketball up to and including the GTech game, and things have been noticeably worse since that game.

I’ll also say this ... if there are problems in the locker room, perhaps there should be.

If we are going to build a culture of winning here once again, this is absolutely part of the process.

There’s no doubt there will be fights and even casualties along the way.

But it will take leaders pushing for team goals over individual goals to make this happen.

I could tell story after story about locker room battles that took place from 2001-2015. I know these to be true.

These battles must happen.

Most of these kids are highly competitive young men who play this game with passion.

They must all be committed to an approach that deals with adversity leading to success.

It’s easy to believe this group hasn’t quite gotten this yet.

I don’t know who called out who, or who deserved it or didn’t. But as a team, they need to find a place bigger than themselves to establish a culture that demands this.
 
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DT_PITT said:
I’m not going to try to completely assess whether I believe what you’ve posted here tonight.

I will only say that over time I’ve come to learn that there is at least some truth to posts like this. Perhaps details are lost in the communication from one to another. But that doesn’t mean that this whole post was fabricated, or the general notion is untrue.

This much we do know ...

We didn’t play good team basketball up to and including the GTech game, and things have been noticeably worse since that game.

I’ll also say this ... if there are problems in the locker room, perhaps there should be.

If we are going to build a culture of winning here once again, this is absolutely part of the process.

There’s no doubt there will be fights and even casualties along the way.

But it will take leaders pushing for team goals over individual goals to make this happen.

I could tell story after story about locker room battles that took place from 2001-2015. I know these to be true.

These battles must happen.

Most of these kids are highly competitive young men who play this game with passion.

They must all be committed to an approach that deals with adversity leading to success.

It’s easy to believe this group hasn’t quite gotten this yet.

I don’t know who called out who, or who deserved it or didn’t. But as a team, they need to find a place bigger than themselves to establish a culture that demands this.
Click to expand...
Well said DT. And just because there were some incidents along the way, it doesn’t mean that everyone will jump ship. As you mention, if that stuff wasn’t happening I might be more concerned.
 
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DT_PITT said:
I’m not going to try to completely assess whether I believe what you’ve posted here tonight.

I will only say that over time I’ve come to learn that there is at least some truth to posts like this. Perhaps details are lost in the communication from one to another. But that doesn’t mean that this whole post was fabricated, or the general notion is untrue.

This much we do know ...

We didn’t play good team basketball up to and including the GTech game, and things have been noticeably worse since that game.

I’ll also say this ... if there are problems in the locker room, perhaps there should be.

If we are going to build a culture of winning here once again, this is absolutely part of the process.

There’s no doubt there will be fights and even casualties along the way.

But it will take leaders pushing for team goals over individual goals to make this happen.

I could tell story after story about locker room battles that took place from 2001-2015. I know these to be true.

These battles must happen.

Most of these kids are highly competitive young men who play this game with passion.

They must all be committed to an approach that deals with adversity leading to success.

It’s easy to believe this group hasn’t quite gotten this yet.

I don’t know who called out who, or who deserved it or didn’t. But as a team, they need to find a place bigger than themselves to establish a culture that demands this.
Click to expand...
Tell us the best and/or most heated battle you ever heard.
 
DT_PITT said:
panther4life32 said:
Coach Capel referred to this incident on the podcast. This incident changed our season.

Following the GT game at home where Trey had 14 points and 9 assists, he and X were challenged/confronted in the locker room by Toney regarding being “looked off” during the game and not getting the ball. This was after a great win! X was hit in the mele. That game, Toney scored 6 points on 2-7 shooting. X scored 11 points on 2-10. That is the last time X and Trey have both scored in double figures and their last win. That’s selfishness. Say what you want. All the games before the GT game, Toney averaged 6 attempts per game. Following the GT game, he has averaged 12 attempts per game. Trey, since the GT game, has averaged 6 shot attempts. X has not really changed his shot attempts so no real change with him. So if you look closely at Trey’s lack of scoring production, which is indicated by his low shot attempts, refer back to the GT post game altercation. This was the turning point of the season. The team was 6-7 in the league and knocking on the NCAA or NIT door.
He has given up his offensive game to be the glue to the team to keep the dysfunction to a minimum. I didn’t even included the disgruntled Murphy. If you have been to Pitt’s games and you sit anywhere close to the families, you will notice Toney’s mom screaming at players and coaches.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to try to completely assess whether I believe what you’ve posted here tonight.

I will only say that over time I’ve come to learn that there is at least some truth to posts like this. Perhaps details are lost in the communication from one to another. But that doesn’t mean that this whole post was fabricated, or the general notion is untrue.

This much we do know ...

We didn’t play good team basketball up to and including the GTech game, and things have been noticeably worse since that game.

I’ll also say this ... if there are problems in the locker room, perhaps there should be.

If we are going to build a culture of winning here once again, this is absolutely part of the process.

There’s no doubt there will be fights and even casualties along the way.

But it will take leaders pushing for team goals over individual goals to make this happen.

I could tell story after story about locker room battles that took place from 2001-2015. I know these to be true.

These battles must happen.

Most of these kids are highly competitive young men who play this game with passion.

They must all be committed to an approach that deals with adversity leading to success.

It’s easy to believe this group hasn’t quite gotten this yet.

I don’t know who called out who, or who deserved it or didn’t. But as a team, they need to find a place bigger than themselves to establish a culture that demands this.
Click to expand...
I would love to hear some of these stories. Care to share?
 
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Anyone hear about a locker room brawl a couple days before the Virginia game ?
 
Bethlehemjohn said:
From what it sounds like, Toney is one of the biggest leaders in the team. He confronted X and Trey regarding shooting too much and their was a fight.
Click to expand...
You know John you read this stuff and you can have 20 different ways to interpret what is really going on and then there is the real truth. Who actually knows right? On the pay site you're hearing Toney is unhappy and might be the one leaving. I mean, all of this is pure speculation but 1 thing that isn't is that Capel needs to get his act together and control that locker room, coach better, recruit better and stop with the collapses. JMO.
 
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X and tray aren’t leading this program out of the cellar, that’s for sure. Roster turnover is key. Champagne is nice, no one else I’d be terribly upset to see leave.
 
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Bethlehemjohn said:
From what it sounds like, Toney is one of the biggest leaders in the team. He confronted X and Trey regarding shooting too much and their was a fight.
Click to expand...

Toney is the only legit 2 way player on the team. I like Justin a lot but like most Frosh his D has a long way to go. I think he will improve on his D. Unlike the other Sophs Toney improved from last year. Probably has more heart than anyone on the team.
 
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From reading this post, it any of it is true, here's what it means:

1. Toney: gone
2. Johnson and McGowens: gone
3. Murphy: gone
4. Champagnie: why would he stay for a team that will go 0-21
5. Jeffress: not coming into this mess

Listen, I said IF its true. We dont know for sure. I didn't listen to the podcast. But a losing team physically fighting with each other is going to have mass defections.

If this is true, 0-21 is probably in the cards.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
From reading this post, it any of it is true, here's what it means:

1. Toney: gone
2. Johnson and McGowens: gone
3. Murphy: gone
4. Champagnie: why would he stay for a team that will go 0-21
5. Jeffress: not coming into this mess

Listen, I said IF its true. We dont know for sure. I didn't listen to the podcast. But a losing team physically fighting with each other is going to have mass defections.

If this is true, 0-21 is probably in the cards.
Click to expand...
You called it!
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
From reading this post, it any of it is true, here's what it means:

1. Toney: gone
2. Johnson and McGowens: gone
3. Murphy: gone
4. Champagnie: why would he stay for a team that will go 0-21
5. Jeffress: not coming into this mess

Listen, I said IF its true. We dont know for sure. I didn't listen to the podcast. But a losing team physically fighting with each other is going to have mass defections.

If this is true, 0-21 is probably in the cards.
Click to expand...

I don't think every one of those things above is going to happen....
 
HOF Coach said:
You called it!
Click to expand...

IF, IF, the 2019 class all transfers, yes, I am calling 0-21. But I am not predicting they ALL leave. I said 1 out of 4 and probably 1 out of 2 (Johnson, McGowens) but if this post is true, it could be much worse than that.

If we do go 0-21, does Capel get a 4th?
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
If the post is true, the 2019 class is most likely gone. Champagnie, who knows. He might stay.
Click to expand...

I think there is some overreaction....will things happen...probably....will it be as disastrous as what you laid out...I don't think so...
 
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No body should be fighting about anything after they played their best game of the season.

Toney complaining about selfishness in that game is plain wrong.

If the result was for Trey to shoot less, that was the wrong outcome.

These two wrongs do not make a right, they make a very big wrong and something the coach should have handled.

It is obvious he didn't, at least successfully.
 
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BFo8 said:
Didn’t you say on here a couple years ago that Pitt wouldn’t have enough players to field a team and would have to cancel their season?
Click to expand...

I said we may only have 2 scholarship players coming back and I was right.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
From reading this post, it any of it is true, here's what it means:

1. Toney: gone
2. Johnson and McGowens: gone
3. Murphy: gone
4. Champagnie: why would he stay for a team that will go 0-21
5. Jeffress: not coming into this mess

Listen, I said IF its true. We dont know for sure. I didn't listen to the podcast. But a losing team physically fighting with each other is going to have mass defections.

If this is true, 0-21 is probably in the cards.
Click to expand...

Even if this is completely true, do you honestly think that Pitt is the only team where players call each other out for issues with how the team played on the court? These are passionate, less than fully matured young men who are highly competitive and often volatile.

There are certainly many similar stories on so many teams.

If it will make you feel any better, you might want to know that Levance and Sam Young almost got into a full blown fist fight after Pitt lost to L-ville in 2009.

Jaron literally chased after Brandin through the seats at the Pete in the middle of a practice in 2003.

Relax dude.
 
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DT_PITT said:
Even if this is completely true, do you honestly think that Pitt is the only team where players call each other out for issues with how the team played on the court? These are passionate, less than fully matured young men who are highly competitive and often volatile.

There are certainly many similar stories on so many teams.

If it will make you feel any better, you might want to know that Levance and Sam Young almost got into a full blown fist fight after Pitt lost to L-ville in 2009.

Jaron literally chased after Brandin through the seats at the Pete in the middle of a practice in 2003.

Relax dude.
Click to expand...
Why would players fight after they just played their best game of the season? They moved the ball the best they did all season.

IF Toney was complaining about selfishness, he was complaining about HIMSELF.
 
gary2 said:
Why would players fight after they just played their best game of the season? They moved the ball the best they did all season.

IF Toney was complaining about selfishness, he was complaining about HIMSELF.
Click to expand...

Why?

Because they are kids.

Let's all take it easy and let then figure this out amongst themselves.
 
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