After watching our D pummel Louisville, I couldn't believe the game was in doubt for the entire duration. The D cant be perfect. They can give up a big play here and there. Or heck, maybe they just play average and not outstanding. The offense has to do its part. We have the 9th best draft eligible QB and as talented a WR corps as we've had maybe since the Wannstedt era and we refuse to score points. I dont get it. Why is the O so bad? I didn't think Whipple should have gotten a Year 2. If we keep scoring less than 30, there's no way he gets a Year 3. If our offense was good, we might go 9-2 or 10-1.
This defense deserves a better offense
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I don't think Whipple should have gotten year 1, but I was ready to hold off judgement. Now its time to bring down the gavel, and call it what it is, Chicken Dung.
If Whipple isn’t good enough to also survive a second season, then the conversation really needs to be about Narduzzi.
The concern with defensive first hires is always that many of them seem to be risk adverse when it comes to their offenses, so they make lazy, non-innovative hires. That’s the concern right now with UGA fans about Kirby Smart. That’s what cost Les Miles the LSU job. It’s what got Muschamp fired at UF and about to be fired at South Carolina. It’s what caused Michigan State to get stale under Dantonio. Saban is really the only one I can think of that was willing to really change his offensive philosophy.
i dont think the running game is a lost cause, but there are far too many unproductive run plays
question: do we not throw the ball down the field because: a. the qb cant get the ball there? b. the WR can't get open c. the OC is a dunce or d. the head coach wants to grind it out and avoid risks?
question: do we not throw the ball down the field because: a. the qb cant get the ball there? b. the WR can't get open c. the OC is a dunce or d. the head coach wants to grind it out and avoid risks?
I I couldn't agree more. There are so many highly productive offenses out there, but it feels like squeezing blood from a stone for Pitt's offense to score. Not nearly enough of a vertical passing game for my liking. Way too many dink & dunk passes 2 or 3 yards beyond the LOS and too many sideways passes.
I have often said they should have brought back Walt Harris as a passing game coordinator. His vertical scheme was the best I've seen at Pitt. His offense with this defense would be a lethal combination.
You make a great point about defense-first hires. Im not sure what it is exactly but Whipple is the guy who has to take the blame. If this D continues to play this way and we go 7-4/6-5, he has to go. This isn't the Big Ten. We cant keep winning 20-13 every week. The D or special teams or a pick 6/whatever is going to give up 30+ eventually
My biggest complaint yesterday, from a coaching perspective, is that we pulled the same crap near the end of the game yesterday as we did against Miami last year. We went ultra-conservative with somewhere between 3 and 4 minutes left on the clock and allowed Louisville to stack the box while only holding a 3 point lead.
I'd really like to know the thought process behind that.
I'd really like to know the thought process behind that.
The thought process is quite simple, Whipple and Narduzzi feel the only way to lose the game was for the offense to turn the ball over. Of course that strategy could very well end up as the only way to not win the game. No 1st downs and one long pass completion for a TD by Louisville and guess who wins the game.
Narduzzi doesn’t exactly come off as progressive. Matt Canada was his best offensive hire, and he couldn’t get him to stick around for more than a year, and then took a dump on him well after he was out the door. Whipple has been a disaster as an OC, and I can’t see if the offense continues to be non-productive, how he comes back. Then again, Tim Salem has been stealing a paycheck from Pitt for as long as Narduzzi has been here. Has there ever been a less productive coach in Pitt history than Tim Salem?
We are probably going to go 7-4 or 6-5. Can't see us beating clemson, nd, or miami. And will probably lose another game or 2.
True, but to replace Canada with Shawn Watson and Mark Whipple, then slander Canada 3 years after the fact?
I don’t have an agenda, everyone on this thread agrees that Whipple sucks
You ripped Whipple, Narduzzi and Salem in one post and yet we are 3-0 and should be 4-0 after this next game.
Definitely not all him, but I'm more pointing at the QB. One OC ran 60% the other pass 60% and near same results. Neither rarely throw a pass more than 10 yds. My eyeballs see Kenny still too slow releasing ball and too slow making decision on too many plays. And still some wrong decision making for a sr.
Agreed that Kenny is no gun slinger. He tends to telegraph where he is throwing and too slow making decisions.
The fact that we are 3-0 and will be 4-0 is not evidence that Whipple is horrendous.
While that may be true, everyone says how great he is including Todd McShay who has him rated #9. If he is that good, its mostly on Whipple as to why he plays like a very mediocre QB
The best part of this whole post are the people ripping the 3-0 start. You people are Pitt fans. Don’t you know that in 95% of seasons Pitt would be 2-1 at this point? The offense needs to be much better, no doubt. No doubt it starts with better playcalling. But we are in a great spot right now and I love the fact that we finally have the defensive identity that our head coach promised.
And I’m thrilled, that doesn’t mean some coaches aren’t underperforming, and in some cases, chronic underperformance.
This is the bizarre part of all of this. People pretending:
1. There are fans ripping 3 and 0.
2. Fans pretending like there’s no way we should be close to 3-0 right now. As if we are a 14th seed that just made it out of opening weekend of the tourney and so should be riding the high.
At *worst* we would be 2-0 right now. Instead we’re 3-0 and played the last game to essentially a coin flip difference, which is probably about what everybody predicted in preseason projects.
Some of you’ll just got some serious diminished expectations. I saw it back in the Austin Peay prediction thread where people were predicting that game would be close, and it’s carried over to people that keep hollering “3-0.”
Who the hell cares about the record when commenting on this subject? The question was whether you think our defense deservers a better offense. That answer should be easy Yes. We score so little with many opportunities to score much more. To say the Pitt offense is below average would be too kind at this point IMO.
Agree with you although I think you're missing a couple of coaches that adapted. Coach O changed his radically last year. Now the architect of that system is gone, but O is committed to fully adopting the principles of high scoring modern offense, which is why he brought Brady in to begin with last year.
With a couple of exceptions, Wisconsin being one of them, anyone who isn't doing that is basically bringing a knife to a gunfight.
It's an "earth is flat" coaching mindset that you grab a lead and squeeze it to death. It's a statistical odds manueuver from a bygone era of college football.
You don't see any of the major players in college football doing that anymore.
I think most people were hoping we would improve to a middle of the pack offense, which would be a significant improvement over last year. We have a 3 game sample and we look maybe a little worse than middle. Not sure why people are so surprised.
Still 8 games left. Clean a few things up and more points will come. I would like to see them condense the playbook, think less, and maybe some of these mental errors go away.
Still 8 games left. Clean a few things up and more points will come. I would like to see them condense the playbook, think less, and maybe some of these mental errors go away.
I don't disgaree with any of that, with one exception--you really can't blame Narduzzi for not being able to keep Canada. Pitt and Dooz went well beyond reasonable effort to do so. You can, however, blame Dooz for publicly pissing on the guy that delivered the best offense in school history for his only season at Pitt, and who Pitt offered an unprecedented salary bump to retain. It was a bad look from a knuckleheaded coach, especially when he's had one of the lowest scoring teams in D 1 since Canada left. .
My biggest problem with Narduzzi is he's 6 years into this head coaching thing and he doesn't seem to be any smarter, better organized or more solid and consistent in his methods and philosophies than he was in Year 1. It took time but he has managed to construct the defense in his mold; at the same time his teams still lack any kind of offensive identity at all. Special teams play, which is all about organization, consistency, repetition and execution and is generally the easiest facet of football to do well, remain erratic. He's a slow learner.
Actually, he's got 8 more games before he's 6 years into the head coaching thing. So lets let him finish the year before writing it off.
Not a fan of cutting off my nose to spite my face. Quality OCs are very hard to come by. Apart from the bevy of talented but underemployed genius OCs on PantherLair they either get hired as HCs (ask Texas how Hermann is working out) or bolt for the next highest high profile OC job college or pro.
If you're going to discredit Narduzzi for Whipple then logic requires you credit him for the defense.
Todd McShay isn't "everyone"--he had a QB named Brian Lewerke from MSU going #7 overall after a crappy junior season and before a crappy senior season. After that season McShay still had lewerke in his top 10. Anyone who watched Lewturkey play over his 3 seaons as a MSU starter knew he'd never sniff the NFL. He was god awful. The excuses they made for him sounded a lot like those made for KP. His WRs suck and drop a lot of balls. he gets no pass protection. The running game is ineffective. The OC doesn't know what he's doing. To the extent some or all of that was true, it didn't change the fact that Lewerke was slow to make decisions, was erratic with his accuracy, consistently missed open reads by locking onto his primary route, ran when he shouldn't, stood in and set his feet when he shouldn't and failed to feel the pressure around him.
Pickett is not as bad as Lewerke was, but he has some of the same kinds of issues. Not what you'd expect out of a 3 years starter. I'd say he's a below average P5 starting QB. I'd be surprised to see him make a NFL roster in the future.
In an age where offenses dominate, quality offensive systems are not hard to find. You just have to be willing to embrace the age where offenses dominate. That is the concern.
And why wouldn’t I give Narduzzi credit for the defense? What are you talking about?
Very little discussion about an offensive line that is well below par.
We recruit solid RBs, really good WR's
We have a QB that is receiving some national praise and an intriguing QB next year in Yellen.
But we have recruited abysmally in the OL, and every other aspect of our offense is impacted.
Morrisey has become a solid player. Kradel has promise.
But absent those guys, simply not good enough
We recruit solid RBs, really good WR's
We have a QB that is receiving some national praise and an intriguing QB next year in Yellen.
But we have recruited abysmally in the OL, and every other aspect of our offense is impacted.
Morrisey has become a solid player. Kradel has promise.
But absent those guys, simply not good enough
Everyone on this board would agree that Pitt’s offense has earned a “needs improvement” rating.
I am not an offensive coordinator and know nothing about it.
One observation: Kenny is a journeyman QB and is a team leader. However he is not very good at throwing short, flat passes. If he improves in this one area, Pitt will do better on offense
I’m not sure I agree about Coach O.
He hired Canada, and the rumors were he was shocked that this was Canada’s offense when he finally saw it. It was believed the hire was forced on him.
He then took the offense away from Canada during the season, and fired him right away after the season.
Who did he replace him with? Somebody who has no real offensive success and ran an offense so old school they had to bring in somebody specifically to teach his handpicked OC how to throw the football.
And now that guy is gone and Coach O is back with just his dinosaur at OC.
I think our WR recruiting needs to get a lot better, and we have nobody at TE. We don't have anyone you'd throw the ball to and expect them to go get it and make a play. We don't have anyone who is a threat to take a 5 yard slant to the house. Mack is probably the closest we have to this and he was a transfer.
Maybe Addison and Barden in the future, but yet to be seen. We've had far too many busts at receiver. We should be done recruiting defense for 2021 unless it's a no brainer add. All offense from here on out.
The argument that our WR talent is great and we have guys running wide open all game is one that makes me believe I’m living in a bizarro world compared to what some others are watching.
Your OP said the conversation needed to be about Narduzzi. Fair enough. Then you proceeded to reference fired or discredited coaches (all of whom were highly successful btw) and ended up only with Saban as the survivor.
Are you suggesting Narduzzi be fired? A cut in his pay? If you do that then you are obligated (if you genuinely want to discuss Narduzzi as a whole) to address his success thus far. You asked me "why" you would not give Narduzzi credit for the defense. My answer is that you didn't...not even while discussing him.
