Update on Pitt-PSU Series

[pittdan77]

I'm pretty sure all of the evidence anyone wants for "play more P5 schools" to build the program, should exist by now. Look at the last handful of seasons. If that worked, Pitt would have a top 25 recruiting class annually.

Get your win count up and it improves the perception of the program.

 

[Jpripper88]

So playing Akron and Tulane helps recruiting more than playing Penn State and Oklahoma State?

Having 21,378 fewer seats would help recruiting according to some.

Starting games at 3:30 instead of 12:00 would help recruiting according to others.

Perhaps Pitt should have rejected the ACC and asked to join the MAC

Than Oklahoma State? You bet. Wins is what matters, not whether the opponent is a decent P6 team or the game is close. Stack wins and build your program. This is what PSU has done for years.

 

[Jpripper88]

I’d rather forfeit and take the automatic L instead of playing PSU in any sport. Why would you want to associatr yourself with their athletic department in any way? I wouldn’t go to the PSU game if you paid me $1000 to go. I’m embarassed for any Pitt fan who tailgates and has fun with any PSU fan in the lots. When they showed Pitt and PSU fans together in the lots before the last game at Heinze, my stomach turned.

I’d rather play Nebraska, MSU, Tennessee, Oklahoma St, etc. middle of the road P5 schools. Screw the automatic W’s, I want to see what Pitt has as a football team and coach, not have some artificial smoke blown up my ass.

That is really, really dumb and would absolutely hold Pitt back.

 

[sherepower]

I am glad we don’t play that cesspool. I don’t want anything to do with that place. Their fans are embarrassing and the fact their football program covered up kids getting raped by their football coach. Tells me every school should feel this way.

It’s a place built on filth

 

[Jpripper88]

easier schedule = more wins = better recruiting

^this is not how it works.

I don't care who the schools are (PSU, WVU, ND) but we need to schedule teams that will draw a large crowd to the game. THEN, we need to beat those teams in front of large crowds. THEN, recruiting will pick up.

Yes, that is exactly how it works.

We will not draw large crowds, unless we are a very, very good program (9+ wins EVERY year) or we are playing those 3 teams. It is idiotic schedule other P6 teams we could lose to and who will not draw more than a handful more fans.

 

[Jsr862]

Considering I started following Pitt in 2001. I now lost all flare for PSU being considered a rival. My rivals are, WVU Cincy and Cuse with ND. I'm waiting a few more years to throw anyone from the ACC coastal in the mix just yet waiting for a few things to play out over few seasons with a specific team. Maybe a few more crazy games against Miami or something with UNC or VT. GT possibly considering games always seem close and we tend to share wins with them.

 

[drp1tt]

what player did you talk to?

I would rather keep that private. In this day and age there is always a chance for repercussions and it wouldn’t be fair to him. He is a good kid and I can only picture the crap his own fan base would give him.

 

[pitt-girl]

I hate to be the gossip person but I talked with a PSU player the other day and he told me Franklin HAPPILY announced to the team that he told them that Penn State would not be renewing the contract at all. What arrogance. But hey if they are that scared to play us then so be it. Just more complete BS on their part.

What a dick. I know it doesn't always happen in college football, but hopefully karma catches up to Franklin.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Schedule Princeton, Central Michigan, Army and Rutgers, tarp the upper deck, start all games at 3:30 and sit back and watch all the 3.8 star recruits turn into bonafide fours and fives. Got it

 

[omega]

Those bitches dont want to step on the field and get exposed again.

 

[Pantherman43]

What a dick. I know it doesn't always happen in college football, but hopefully karma catches up to Franklin.

Getting past jimmy franks and his rah rah rah rah cheerleader approach to everything it boils down to this. Penn State can lose to Pitt but Penn State will not lose to likes of Georgia State, Akron, etc.

Let him sugarcoat it with his we are not worthy of being on the same field horsesh!t he spews. Deep down inside he is still pissy over the loss in 2016 that kept them out of the playoff (actually the ass kicking they got at Michigan did that) so in their mind up there no Pitt is good Pitt.

 

[Jpripper88]

Schedule Princeton, Central Michigan, Army and Rutgers, tarp the upper deck, start all games at 3:30 and sit back and watch all the 3.8 star recruits turn into bonafide fours and fives. Got it

Schedule Iowa, Oklahoma State, ND and YSU and go 1-3 OOC and be demoralized and never win more than 8 games in a season and remain an also-ran program. Fans (large influx from opposing fans) will show up for the ND game and no others.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I have come around to the idea of scheduling teams that are easier to beat, so that Pitt can end up with more wins. More wins means a better reputation, even if some people say that the schedule isn't good. Considering the cluster that Pederson and Barnes put Pitt into over the years, if the worst thing people can say is that Pitt has an easy schedule, I would take it in a heartbeat. Only a small number of programs will help with attendance, and of those only WVU wants to play Pitt. I think there is a group of relatively easy decisions that Pitt could make regarding football.

1. Throwback uniforms as regular uniforms.
2. Tarp upper deck sections of HF.
3. Easier schedule
4. Keep Narduzzi as long as possible.

If you've got coaching consistency, and easier schedule and a decent coach, you are going to win more games, see more fans show up and have more recruits interested. Not difficult. But... it's Pitt so this is like rocket science to them.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Schedule Iowa, Oklahoma State, ND and YSU and go 1-3 OOC and be demoralized and never win more than 8 games in a season and remain an also-ran program. Fans (large influx from opposing fans) will show up for the ND game and no others.

I love when these arguments devolve into the merits of an OOC schedule full of creampuffs vs a murderers rows slate. You schedule WVU and somebody with a pulse or recognizable like a Purdue and two tune ups. A schedule like that nets a 3-1 record many more times than not. And maybe a sweep. That is the kind of schedule that piques the interest of fans and sells season tickets, not a record built from table scraps. The OOC schedule is not a variable when prospects consider schools.

You want consistent 9-10 win seasons? Easy eliminate WTF losses and beat the teams you need to beat in conference. Doesn't matter what you do out of conference if you don't beat Syracuse, NC, NC State, GT, BC, and Duke.

 

[Jpripper88]

I love when these arguments devolve into the merits of an OOC schedule full of creampuffs vs a murderers rows slate. You schedule WVU and somebody with a pulse or recognizable like a Purdue and two tune ups. A schedule like that nets a 3-1 record many more times than not. And maybe a sweep. That is the kind of schedule that piques the interest of fans and sells season tickets, not a record built from table scraps. The OOC schedule is not a variable when prospects consider schools.

You want consistent 9-10 win seasons? Easy eliminate WTF losses and beat the teams you need to beat in conference. Doesn't matter what you do out of conference if you don't beat Syracuse, NC, NC State, GT, BC, and Duke.

Purdue doesn't attract fans or sell tickets. It could be a loss. What is the upside of scheduling Purdue?

The OOC schedule is only a variable to your success and overscheduling has hurt Pitt in a very big way over the last 20 years. That ultimately hurts recruiting.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Schedule should be:

Notre Dame or WVU
1AA
MAC
Sun Belt, CUSA, or bad MWC team

Need to go at least 3-1 for every OOC

 

[cashisking884]

I love when these arguments devolve into the merits of an OOC schedule full of creampuffs vs a murderers rows slate. You schedule WVU and somebody with a pulse or recognizable like a Purdue and two tune ups. A schedule like that nets a 3-1 record many more times than not. And maybe a sweep. That is the kind of schedule that piques the interest of fans and sells season tickets, not a record built from table scraps. The OOC schedule is not a variable when prospects consider schools.

You want consistent 9-10 win seasons? Easy eliminate WTF losses and beat the teams you need to beat in conference. Doesn't matter what you do out of conference if you don't beat Syracuse, NC, NC State, GT, BC, and Duke.

I somewhat agree. I'm not sure a bunch of easy wins that boosts the W-L record is going to have much of an impact on recruiting. Especially if we're going .500 in conference.But what you do out of conference does matter if we are beating Cuse, NC, NC State, GT, etc.
Lets say we get to the point where we are beating Cuse, GT, and Duke type teams on a regular basis. It's not like you can say, "Get the program to the point where we are regularly beating those teams, and the out of conference wins will take care of themselves." Because we could beat those teams, and still not be good enough to get past Penn State and Okie State type teams. That would be a whole other tier. So at that point, wouldn't you want to ease the out of conference schedule some?

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Somewhat surprised. Thought the 4 game block Keystone thing might keep going or at least a 2 game series. Didn't think they'd let it go over a decade again. Guess just enough people don't really care. The last two tv wise have been middling. Even the local media: crickets.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Purdue doesn't attract fans or sell tickets. It could be a loss. What is the upside of scheduling Purdue?

The OOC schedule is only a variable to your success and overscheduling has hurt Pitt in a very big way over the last 20 years. That ultimately hurts recruiting.

Our fan base 1) knows Purdue and 2) knows it is winnable and 3) is far more likely to draw better than a creampuff.

WVU and a mid tier major conference team is not overscheduling. Continue to think small.

 

[Jpripper88]

Our fan base 1) knows Purdue and 2) knows it is winnable and 3) is far more likely to draw better than a creampuff.

WVU and a mid tier major conference team is not overscheduling. Continue to think small.

Our fanbase 1) doesn't care and 2) knows it is losable and 3) is not likely to draw a much better crowd than a creampuff.

It is because it does us no benefit. I'm thinking much, much bigger. I am thinking about building a winning program and the only way to do it is by winning. Practically ensuring 12-0 over 3 years OOC is much, much better than likely going 9-3 with a chance of 7-5 over that time.

 

[Mikefln]

Our fanbase 1) doesn't care and 2) knows it is losable and 3) is not likely to draw a much better crowd than a creampuff.

It is because it does us no benefit. I'm thinking much, much bigger. I am thinking about building a winning program and the only way to do it is by winning. Practically ensuring 12-0 over 3 years OOC is much, much better than likely going 9-3 with a chance of 7-5 over that time.

No the only way to build a program is at the very least to compete for the Coastal. Once we compete and win the Coastal a few times then win the conference. Once that is done make good showings in the playoffs that is how you build a winning program. If you can do those things consistently, winning OOC games will come also.

 

[pittdan77]

No the only way to build a program is at the very least to compete for the Coastal. Once we compete and win the Coastal a few times then win the conference. Once that is done make good showings in the playoffs that is how you build a winning program. If you can do those things consistently, winning OOC games will come also.

How is Pitt making the playoffs, let alone making a "good showing", if it wins the conference but goes 2-2 OOC?

 

[jtownknowitall]

The same way they make the playoffs by beating up on 4 cream puffs and then losing to Duke and North Carolina

 

[Mikefln]

How is Pitt making the playoffs, let alone making a "good showing", if it wins the conference but goes 2-2 OOC?

If they are winning the conference then the OOC will work itself out. To win this conference you have to be damn good, so Pitt should have no trouble with The Minnesota's and Colorado's of the world. I am not saying they should be scheduling Alabama and USC OOC.

 

[Jpripper88]

No the only way to build a program is at the very least to compete for the Coastal. Once we compete and win the Coastal a few times then win the conference. Once that is done make good showings in the playoffs that is how you build a winning program. If you can do those things consistently, winning OOC games will come also.

But you are severely hampered by going 2-2 in OOC. Your confidence is waivered, if not shot. The borderline fans won't show up. Your players are also more likely to be beaten up after 2 much harder games. I'm sorry, but I think a Pitt team that starts the season 2-2 instead of 4-0 is ALWAYS a worse bet to win the conference. It doesn't matter if the team was 4-0 vs cupcakes or 2-2 with the 2 losses to WVU by 1 point and Alabama by 2. Of course you also have to win conference games, but why make it much harder to get to 9 and 10 wins when you control those other 4 opponents completely?

 

[pittengineer75]

I go to pretty much every home game and a couple alway games at would more than likely not attend a Purdue game here and definitely not out there. Place is in the middle of nowhere and not recruiting value.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The series is similar to that flaming bag of d-g stuff that some people find on their doorstep!

 

[Seneca_Valley]

But you are severely hampered by going 2-2 in OOC. Your confidence is waivered, if not shot. The borderline fans won't show up. Your players are also more likely to be beaten up after 2 much harder games. I'm sorry, but I think a Pitt team that starts the season 2-2 instead of 4-0 is ALWAYS a worse bet to win the conference. It doesn't matter if the team was 4-0 vs cupcakes or 2-2 with the 2 losses to WVU by 1 point and Alabama by 2. Of course you also have to win conference games, but why make it much harder to get to 9 and 10 wins when you control those other 4 opponents completely?

So much wrong with this post. Pitt's AD would thank you for sharing your thoughts and then show you the door.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you should keep it to yourself.

 

[HailtoPitt]

If Pitt goes 12-0 and wins the ACC Championship game, they get into the playoff even with the worst OOC schedule in the country.

If Pitt goes 11-1 and wins the ACC Championship a tough OOC schedule and a loss to one of those OOC teams, it's not a given that they get into the playoff

 

[Jpripper88]

So much wrong with this post. Pitt's AD would thank you for sharing your thoughts and then show you the door.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you should keep it to yourself.

What is wrong?

 

[daminals76]

I'm pretty sure all of the evidence anyone wants for "play more P5 schools" to build the program, should exist by now. Look at the last handful of seasons. If that worked, Pitt would have a top 25 recruiting class annually.

Get your win count up and it improves the perception of the program.

Exactly...WINS are what matters! Nobody is ever going to remember that we played 1 or 2 too many cupcakes to get us to 10 wins!

 

[daminals76]

If Pitt goes 12-0 and wins the ACC Championship game, they get into the playoff even with the worst OOC schedule in the country.

If Pitt goes 11-1 and wins the ACC Championship a tough OOC schedule and a loss to one of those OOC teams, it's not a given that they get into the playoff

Not guaranteed, but highly likely to make the playoff as a 1 loss p5 team no matter what the OOC schedule was.

2 losses and most everyone would be out.

 

[daminals76]

The same way they make the playoffs by beating up on 4 cream puffs and then losing to Duke and North Carolina

Have we lost to Duke since we entered the ACC?

 

[pittdan77]

If they are winning the conference then the OOC will work itself out. To win this conference you have to be damn good, so Pitt should have no trouble with The Minnesota's and Colorado's of the world. I am not saying they should be scheduling Alabama and USC OOC.

Okay. Easy to jump over the original premise and skip straight to "we'll just be that good" and forget about the part where you have to figure out how to build the program.

Repeating the same failed strategy with one new coach after another is just dumb. You've had Iowa and Oklahoma State and you got nothing out of it but a losing record against those schools. You can't point at any legitimate difference from OSU and Rice other than the scoreboard at the end. So let's keep scheduling schools with zero recruiting footprint that has a decent chance of being a loss rather than adding Sun Belt or Conference USA schools in the recruiting sweet spots.

 

[Mikefln]

In the past decade Pitt has lost to Youngstown St and a few MAC schools. The problem is not over scheduling. The problem is Pitt crapping the bed.

 

[California Panther]

Have we lost to Duke since we entered the ACC?

we lost to Duke in 2014 when JC had a monster day. Blewitt blew-it and missed a game winning chip-shot FG at the end of regulation. Who can forget JC's running over people TD in the 1st OT, then we lost in the 2nd OT.

 

[Jpripper88]

In the past decade Pitt has lost to Youngstown St and a few MAC schools. The problem is not over scheduling. The problem is Pitt crapping the bed.

Of course Pitt actually winning is the most important thing, but your way makes that much harder.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Regardless, of the OOC schedule debate, a lot of our scheduling problems were economic. I am hoping our ACC money and coaching stability will help us have the resources to be able to schedule more desirable opponents, be they of the home-only MAC type (expensive but makes sense!) -- AND home and home series against quality opponents that do more to move the needle than Oklahoma State.

And as I said in the other thread, really, the only legitimate goal should be an ACC title. Which isn't a question of non conference schedule.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Regardless, of the OOC schedule debate, a lot of our scheduling problems were economic. I am hoping our ACC money and coaching stability will help us have the resources to be able to schedule more desirable opponents, be they of the home-only MAC type (expensive but makes sense!) -- AND home and home series against quality opponents that do more to move the needle than Oklahoma State.

And as I said in the other thread, really, the only legitimate goal should be an ACC title. Which isn't a question of non conference schedule.

Good post. I'll go further.......

For those advocating a creampuff filled schedule, take a look at this.

Villanova
Youngstown St.
Wagner
Marshall
Georgia Tech
Syracuse
Duke
Virginia Tech

In other words, an eight game schedule with perhaps one ranked team in the mix. Please submit to Heather a marketing strategy pitching this lineup that will spur season ticket sales. How would you price it? My guess a "well it looks like shit but it's really better for us in the long run" strategy won't be well received.

 

[Swervin27]

Good post. I'll go further.......

For those advocating a creampuff filled schedule, take a look at this.

Villanova
Youngstown St.
Wagner
Marshall
Georgia Tech
Syracuse
Duke
Virginia Tech

In other words, an eight game schedule with perhaps one ranked team in the mix. Please submit to Heather a marketing strategy pitching this lineup that will spur season ticket sales. How would you price it? My guess a "well it looks like shit but it's really better for us in the long run" strategy won't be well received.

you'd have to have an "open bar" for everyone who buys a ticket with the reassurance that the bartenders will not ID anyone who looks underage.. I think that and pretty much only that would get people to go to games on that schedule..