Update on Pitt-PSU Series

[pittdan77]

But that doesn't mean College Football Conference = AFC Conference.
Divisions in pro sports were intended to be your regional rivalries, that you played every year. And by winning it, you got a reward (playoffs).
That's what "conferences" are in college sports. They still largely are regional. Expansion has changed that some, but the SEC is still mostly the south east The PAC 12 is still largely west coast teams. Etc. And winning them gives you a reward (the Rose Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, the Cotton Bowl, etc.).
You're too caught up in the language. Pro divisions are the equivalent of college conferences.
And I'm not following your MLB point?

There was and AL an NL champion at the end of the regular season. No "championship series" or other playoff rounds. Just win your league and move on. Even later it went to a division format. East and West in both leagues. Again, win your division, move to the LCS. TV and expansion ended that with interleague play and wild card games that make for really awkward references to October world series games as players struggle with snow flurries in November.

I get your premise and I would have agreed with you before expansion. Now it's just too difficult unless you're going to expand the college regular season or force conferences to eliminate OOC games. The B1G did that but it was more to support their product/TV network when they realized they already had a ton of fluff in the schedule. The ACC has the political footballs in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia to deal with. Plus Notre Dame. Don't really see any way the ACC kills and OOC game without affecting the TV revenue.

 

[cashisking884]

I get your premise and I would have agreed with you before expansion. Now it's just too difficult unless you're going to expand the college regular season or force conferences to eliminate OOC games. The B1G did that but it was more to support their product/TV network when they realized they already had a ton of fluff in the schedule. The ACC has the political footballs in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia to deal with. Plus Notre Dame. Don't really see any way the ACC kills and OOC game without affecting the TV revenue.

The only thing expansion diminished was the closed off geography that use to dominate conferences. But even that is still largely there.
Expansion makes it so that you can't play everybody you're associated with, every single year. There is no getting around that. The only question is how best to handle that reality?
But it's not too difficult to make sure teams that are competing against each other for a conference title every year, actually play each other on a more frequent basis. At least more than once every 6 years (and will be 7 after the next conference expansion).
The best way to create rivalries in a conference, and expand the national appeal of a conference, are:
1. Through meaningful games. Part of that is making sure the teams that lend themselves to being really good, are playing each other regularly. The ACC is a conference with so little national fanfare because we don't have enough sexy regular season matchups. If Richt is going to turn Miami into his UGA teams, then Miami-Clemson needs to be a regular season showcase game for the conference. Like Clemson-Lville has been during the Jackson years, and FSU-Clemson was before last year. We don't have enough 8 p.m. ABC games, because we don't have enough pairings that would lend itself to it. That needs to change.

2. Have teams with a history play each other. GT playing us every year, and rarely playing FSU, just isn't good for the conference. We have far too many games that people only care about in the W-L sense. But the best conferences are those that have games that draw upon their history of playing each other and transcend that. We don't have many of those games in the ACC. Because we've taken Big East teams that for the most part didn't have much of a rivalry, separated the southern teams that did, and then paired those northern teams with the southern teams.

 

[denniskembala]

PSU vs Pitt = Pipedream.

 

[Hailpitt]

Dennikembala
I hope it is a pipe dream. When the current series was announced in the midst of the Paterno/Sandusky/PSU pedophile coverup scandal I had a number of friends across the country who questioned me as to why Pitt would align themselves with “those creeps.” ( meaning psu). I will be glad when Pitt no longer has any association with psu. I am concerned that this year’s nationally televised game will cause viewers to misapprehend Pitt’s relationship with psu. Pitt would never stoop to exalting the importance of football over the welfare of children. What other immoral choices did jo pa make in promoting his “success with honor?”

 

[chethejet]

The economics for Pitt having PSU on the schedule are obvious. But the nits are not risking a playoff as presently constructed to lose to Pitt. So it is over for at least 12 years and who knows by then. Pitt has the ACC, ND, WVU so they are actually in far better shape that depending on a weak BE or independent program for the first 90 years. I will always relish the nits losing so there is that.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The economics for Pitt having PSU on the schedule are obvious. But the nits are not risking a playoff as presently constructed to lose to Pitt.

I hate PSU but I'm not sure that playing Virginia Tech and WVU are going to be easier wins than playing our guys.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Dennikembala
When the current series was announced in the midst of the Paterno/Sandusky/PSU pedophile coverup scandal I had a number of friends across the country who questioned me as to why Pitt would align themselves with “those creeps.” ( meaning psu). I will be glad when Pitt no longer has any association with psu. I am concerned that this year’s nationally televised game will cause viewers to misapprehend Pitt’s relationship with psu. Pitt would never stoop to exalting the importance of football over the welfare of children. What other immoral choices did jo pa make in promoting his “success with honor?”

No you didn't.

And the rest of your post is just ridiculous.

 

[SSS811]

The economics for Pitt having PSU on the schedule are obvious. But the nits are not risking a playoff as presently constructed to lose to Pitt

So they're scared of losing to us, but decide to schedule WVU, VTech, and Auburn? Okay lol

 

[cashisking884]

So they're scared of losing to us, but decide to schedule WVU, VTech, and Auburn? Okay lol

Those games don't really have any repercussions in PA recruiting.
Kind of like how Kansas doesn't put Wichita State on the schedule every season in college basketball. Are they THAT scared they will lose to them most years? Probably not. But the fear is: what if they do lose? What does a win give them compared to a loss when you're already at the top of the mountain in the state?

 

[FireballZ]

So they're scared of losing to us, but decide to schedule WVU, VTech, and Auburn? Okay lol

We know you're a branch campus dum-dum, but yes, losing to an in-state rival is worse from a perception standpoint than losing to any of the teams that you mention. Penn State could lose to any non-conference opponent with a pulse that they'd schedule, hence they are choosing for it not to be Pitt so they can continue to claim dominance without having to back it up.

 

[psugisher]

Those games don't really have any repercussions in PA recruiting.
Kind of like how Kansas doesn't put Wichita State on the schedule every season in college basketball. Are they THAT scared they will lose to them most years? Probably not. But the fear is: what if they do lose? What does a win give them compared to a loss when you're already at the top of the mountain in the state?

Yeah, the PItt loss devastated the program in 2016. Bottom line is Penn State has one power 5 home and home series they can schedule due to the financial needs of the athletic department and they don't want it to be PItt every year. I like the PItt game but I'm looking forward to Va Tech, WVU and Auburn. This turned out to be a great time for a series with PItt and perhaps there will be a great time for a series in the future.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

Yeah, the PItt loss devastated the program in 2016. Bottom line is Penn State has one power 5 home and home series they can schedule due to the financial needs of the athletic department and they don't want it to be PItt every year. I like the PItt game but I'm looking forward to Va Tech, WVU and Auburn. This turned out to be a great time for a series with PItt and perhaps there will be a great time for a series in the future.

You spelled, kept Penn State out of the playoffs, wrong.

 

[SSS811]

The loss to Pitt did absolutely nothing to the perception of PSU. They are still viewed as the premier football program in the state. You know why? Because they followed that loss up with back to back 11 win seasons, top ten finishes, and NY6 bowls. Hell, even with our win, they still beat us in recruiting. So please, remind me why you think they are afraid of us?

 

[SSS811]

You spelled, kept Penn State out of the playoffs, wrong.

This is probably one of the biggest loads of crap that our fans keep tell ourselves, and it makes all of us look stupid. PSU didn't get in because of their loss to Michigan, not their loss to us. Would they have gotten in if they beat Michigan, but still lost to us? Yes. How do we know? Because Clemson did the same exact thing.

PSU wins the B10. Clemson wins the ACC. PSU has close loss to us. Clemson has a close loss to us. Yet Clemson gets in and PSU doesn't. You don't think that a 40 point loss to Michigan seems to be the difference maker? Lol

 

[psugisher]

You spelled, kept Penn State out of the playoffs, wrong.

Right and you can hang onto that and it will be the highlight of the series for you but the PSU team you beat was coming off a 7-6 season with anything but playoff expectations. The only reason that win meant anything was because of how much success Penn State had the rest of the season. Must've been conflicting.. the more Penn State won, the better your win against them felt. PSU overachieved that season. PItt should have at least won their division and played in their conference championship game.

 

[PhPanther2]

The answer as I have stated many times is 16 team conferences broken into 4 pods of 4 teams. You play your own pod for 3 games plus 2 other pods for 8 games. That gives you an 11 game regular season where every game is crucial. You then take your 4 pod champions and play a 2 round playoff for acc champs.

Take those champs and go play a national playoff.

Screw non-conference games.

 

[cashisking884]

Yeah, the PItt loss devastated the program in 2016. Bottom line is Penn State has one power 5 home and home series they can schedule due to the financial needs of the athletic department and they don't want it to be PItt every year. I like the PItt game but I'm looking forward to Va Tech, WVU and Auburn. This turned out to be a great time for a series with PItt and perhaps there will be a great time for a series in the future.

That's fine. The loss might not have any impact. Or a single loss might not. The point is Penn State probably doesn't stand to gain much from it. It's like throwing the ball when you're winning, with the ball, 30 seconds left in the game and the other team has no timeouts. It might not hurt you if you do it, but you don't stand to gain anything from it. It can really only hurt you. Teams are afraid of that, and so avoid it.
You have nothing to gain from playing us. It can only hurt. You're afraid of the potential hurt, so you're avoiding the risk.

 

[Patnards]

I am glad this series is going to be over. We would not want to see the final scores with the talent they are bringing in compared to us.

 

[pittdan77]

Bottom line is Penn State has one power 5 home and home series they can schedule due to the financial needs of the athletic department and they don't want it to be PItt every year.

Not at all true. PSU could easily make an effort to beef up the OOC schedule with right-timing the years the games are away. But I understand why a soft OOC schedule for the remaining games makes sense. It's just too bad some Pitt fans can't get why those extra wins help.

 

[pafootballguy]

You want Pitt/PSU every year, then get uniformity in college football schedules. PSU plays 10 power 5 teams a year and has no incentive in playing more just like almost every other team in college football. The SEC only plays 9 year which helps them get into the playoff every year.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I am glad this series is going to be over. We would not want to see the final scores with the talent they are bringing in compared to us.

Hey mauti, so when you gonna change handles again? You were going strong with the H2Pitttisit, that one run out of steam? This one has a nice ring to it. You must either be pretty well off or a loser with no family/expenses to pay to troll your non-rival. I'm betting on the latter.

I'll curious to see what you change to after Sept. 9th.

 

[Patnards]

Hey mauti, so when you gonna change handles again? You were going strong with the H2Pitttisit, that one run out of steam? This one has a nice ring to it. You must either be pretty well off or a loser with no family/expenses to pay to troll your non-rival. I'm betting on the latter.

I'll curious to see what you change to after Sept. 9th.

No matter how hard I laugh at your accusations I always laugh harder at how much money you think 9 dollars a month is

 

[psugisher]

Not at all true. PSU could easily make an effort to beef up the OOC schedule with right-timing the years the games are away. But I understand why a soft OOC schedule for the remaining games makes sense. It's just too bad some Pitt fans can't get why those extra wins help.

With 9 conference games, it's impossible to ensure 7 home games with two home and home series. The year there's 5 home conference games, they can play the road part of the home and home. When there's 4 home conference games, they play the home part of the home and home. There's no room for another road game in any given two year period so they have to schedule teams willing to come in without a return trip. It's strictly a financial decision and not about wins/losses.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

No matter how hard I laugh at your accusations I always laugh harder at how much money you think 9 dollars a month is

it would be pretty easy to prove you wrong, but you can continue your little charade since you seem to get off on it.

 

[Patnards]

it would be pretty easy to prove you wrong, but you can continue your little charade since you seem to get off on it.

Go for it Slick. If you’re right, I will give you 9.99 and you can play on the big board for a month

 

[daminals76]

Good post. I'll go further.......

For those advocating a creampuff filled schedule, take a look at this.

Villanova
Youngstown St.
Wagner
Marshall
Georgia Tech
Syracuse
Duke
Virginia Tech

In other words, an eight game schedule with perhaps one ranked team in the mix. Please submit to Heather a marketing strategy pitching this lineup that will spur season ticket sales. How would you price it? My guess a "well it looks like shit but it's really better for us in the long run" strategy won't be well received.

Coming off a 10 or 11 win season Pitt Football would have no problem selling tickets with this schedule.

We could raise the price. Who CARES if we play good teams when finish 6-6??

 

[daminals76]

Good post. I'll go further.......

For those advocating a creampuff filled schedule, take a look at this.

Villanova
Youngstown St.
Wagner
Marshall
Georgia Tech
Syracuse
Duke
Virginia Tech

In other words, an eight game schedule with perhaps one ranked team in the mix. Please submit to Heather a marketing strategy pitching this lineup that will spur season ticket sales. How would you price it? My guess a "well it looks like shit but it's really better for us in the long run" strategy won't be well received.

Anyway we would never play Nova AND YSU AND Wagner in the same year. It's only one of those per season.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Go for it Slick. If you’re right, I will give you 9.99 and you can play on the big board for a month

shall we talk to Peak? Although common sense alone proves it. Your mouth is all over the PSU jock on just about every post. Just like Dion & H2Pittisit. And you suddenly appear in 2017 .....you just discover this site? Strange you appear and the other ones disappear.

But keep your money Mauti, my money is better spent on the bag men.

 

[Patnards]

shall we talk to Peak? Although common sense alone proves it. Your mouth is all over the PSU jock on just about every post. Just like Dion & H2Pittisit. And you suddenly appear in 2017 .....you just discover this site? Strange you appear and the other ones disappear.

But keep your money Mauti, my money is better spent on the bag men.

May I suggest you give the bagmen more money? It doesn’t appear to be working.

But, yes go talk to Peak about a guy who has violated no rules and talks football. Just because it’s more realistic than your view I’m the troll

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

May I suggest you give the bagmen more money? It doesn’t appear to be working.

Maybe you should take your $9.99 if you are a true fan and invest with me.

Keep it up Mauti, you have been outed and you are truly an asshole.

 

[Patnards]

Maybe you should take your $9.99 if you are a true fan and invest with me.

Keep it up Mauti, you have been outed and you are truly an asshole.

I’m not about to get pitt a recruiting violation for buying 3 Star kids Big Macs. You better find some better investors and better hope an NCAA monitor isn’t reviewing this

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I’m not about to get pitt a recruiting violation for buying 3 Star kids Big Macs. You better find some better investors and better hope an NCAA monitor isn’t reviewing this

you prove my point so effortlessly. Thanks for playing along.

 

[daminals76]

Dennikembala
I hope it is a pipe dream. When the current series was announced in the midst of the Paterno/Sandusky/PSU pedophile coverup scandal I had a number of friends across the country who questioned me as to why Pitt would align themselves with “those creeps.” ( meaning psu). I will be glad when Pitt no longer has any association with psu. I am concerned that this year’s nationally televised game will cause viewers to misapprehend Pitt’s relationship with psu. Pitt would never stoop to exalting the importance of football over the welfare of children. What other immoral choices did jo pa make in promoting his “success with honor?”

Amen... Ped St is a complete embarrassment and Pitt should have nothing to do with them.

 

[pittdan77]

It's strictly a financial decision and not about wins/losses.

It easy to claim it's "financial" because it's easy to be cynical about PSU's money lust. I mean, it looks like they're selling sponsorship for individual games now? Is that really why you go to see Georgia State? I mean, you're asking me to believe that as a fan you passively accept throwing money down the blue and white drain because you are okay with being fed a dose of stooges that you don't enjoy seeing get beat but it helps fund a fencing team. You really okay with that or is it really just more fun to watch Franklin ice a kicker at the end of a blow-out?

 

[Pittx9]

Great post, but I 100% disagree with the "meh" comment. The 2016 matchup was the highest attended game ever in Heinz Field history - that's including all of the beloved Steeler games too. You're nuts if you think that's "meh".

Obviously football stadiums are the biggest generally so it probably goes without saying, but it was the highest attended sporting event of any kind in the history of the city of Pittsburgh.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Amen... Ped St is a complete embarrassment and Pitt should have nothing to do with them.

Embarrassing? To who? Obviously not 4 and 5 star talent who is flocking there. No one cares anymore about the Ped scandal except Pitt fans. And it isn't helping us.

 

[psugisher]

It easy to claim it's "financial" because it's easy to be cynical about PSU's money lust. I mean, it looks like they're selling sponsorship for individual games now? Is that really why you go to see Georgia State? I mean, you're asking me to believe that as a fan you passively accept throwing money down the blue and white drain because you are okay with being fed a dose of stooges that you don't enjoy seeing get beat but it helps fund a fencing team. You really okay with that or is it really just more fun to watch Franklin ice a kicker at the end of a blow-out?

I'd want to play Notre Dame, Bama, Clemson, USC, Texas, etc in the non conference every year, no cupcake games at all but that's not college football. Almost all decisions are about money. The 12th game added a few years ago along with the conference championship games are about making money. I'd say Pitt and the two cupcakes would make what's needed but the fanbase/donors want variety so if they're getting Va Tech, WVU, Auburn, that one good non conference game will appease them. To keep universal support, you can't just say screw the fencing team. Go with 6 home games one year and the local hotels/restaurants/businesses take that hit along with the athletic dept. PSU football does a great job of being inclusive to ensure that complete community support. It's kind of what the whole "we are" thing is about.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

With 9 conference games, it's impossible to ensure 7 home games with two home and home series. The year there's 5 home conference games, they can play the road part of the home and home. When there's 4 home conference games, they play the home part of the home and home. There's no room for another road game in any given two year period so they have to schedule teams willing to come in without a return trip. It's strictly a financial decision and not about wins/losses.

This is one reason I sort of hate college football, despite the fact I go to/watch every Pitt game I can. There is no "requirement" to play 7 home games but all the P5 schools try to do it, and they can, because they have more money to buy games. It's such an absurd scheduling system based more on financial means than anything. Imagine the New York Giants getting 10 of 16 games at home because they'd require the Buffalo Bills to travel there or something.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Amen... Ped St is a complete embarrassment and Pitt should have nothing to do with them.

The Catholic church has covered up far more than Penn State has. No college identifies more with the Catholic church than Notre Dame. Should Pitt have anything to do with them? Should Pitt fans worry that this year's nationally televised game with them could cause some to miscomprehend, er misapprehend, Pitt's relationship with them?

 

[pittdan77]

I'd want to play Notre Dame, Bama, Clemson, USC, Texas, etc in the non conference every year, no cupcake games at all but that's not college football. Almost all decisions are about money. The 12th game added a few years ago along with the conference championship games are about making money. I'd say Pitt and the two cupcakes would make what's needed but the fanbase/donors want variety so if they're getting Va Tech, WVU, Auburn, that one good non conference game will appease them. To keep universal support, you can't just say screw the fencing team. Go with 6 home games one year and the local hotels/restaurants/businesses take that hit along with the athletic dept. PSU football does a great job of being inclusive to ensure that complete community support. It's kind of what the whole "we are" thing is about.

Wait, so football is the economic engine of State College that's value is central to the community and it's identity?