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USA Today's early 2017 Top 25

Piranha said:
Championships as a Player and Coach
Dabo - 2
Jim Harbaugh - 0

Also - Dabo is younger.
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It's not just championships, though that is a big part.

Swinney's teams regularly come up huge in big games. Harbaugh's teams regularly choke in the biggest moments.

Teams take on the personality of their coaches.

Swinney projects confidence and belief, and his teams feed off of it.

Harbaugh is a whining asshole whose sphincter tightens when the going gets tough. And then he goes ballistic on the refs, on his players, on the media... on anyone he can... in order to blame the loss on anybody but himself.

They both win lots of games.... but Swinner is a "winner". Harbaugh is a "choker".
 
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UPitt '89 said:
No... not kidding.

Swinney has had more success at Clemson than Harbaugh has had at Stanford or Michigan.

They both recruit Top 5 classes every year.

Every time a Harbaugh-coached team has a chance for a big win, they blow it. Both pro and college.

There's not one observable, measurable way in which any sane person can have Harbaugh ahead of Swinney.... except in hype.

Harbaugh has the hype in spades.... that you've bought into, because you're a Big Ten Syncophant who ... despite all evidence to the contrary, thinks the Big Ten is one of the Top Two conferences in college football.

There is nothing that Harbaugh has over Swinney. Nothing. And your inability to list even ONE single objective measurement or trait in which Harbaugh is better has been noticed. When your only response is "you've got to be kidding"... it means you've got nuthin'.
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I agree with you.
 
UPitt '89 said:
I've got to respond to this ridiculous post twice, haha.

The sentence you have in bold above, implies that Clemson barely won a game in which they were the favorite to win. They were 6 to 7 point underdogs. When an underdog wins a game... it is ridiculous to use language like they "had their hand full, despite having a HUGE advantage...".

That is language that goes towards the favorite. Had Alabama held on to win 31-28... it would be appropriate to say "Saban had his hands full, despite an advantage at every position on the field except QB."

Swinney won over the "greatest coach in College football" as a touchdown underdog on a neutral field.

"Had his hands full... despite...." .... your language is ridiculous, TD.... and you're a pathetic troll.
Click to expand...

Saban will probably be back in the playoffs next year. I
UPitt '89 said:
LOL.

Before the game, all we heard was how Alabama was superior on both sides of the ball at every position except QB. Now, you equate that sole Clemson advantage as the be-all and end-all that trumps Alabama's advantage everywhere else.

Secondly... it isn't *ONE* year. It's six. Here's Clemson's record the past 6 seasons:
10-4
11-2
11-2
10-3
14-1
14-1

70-13

2-0 against Urban Meyer
1-1 against Nick Saban
2-0 against Bob Stoops
1-0 against Les Miles

Three ACC titles... Five Atlantic division titles.

45 players from his Clemson rosters are playing in the NFL right now.

Nobody moves goalposts like you, TD. Nobody.

Swinney is the 2nd-best coach in College Football at the moment.... behind only Saban.
Click to expand...


No. He isn't. That statement is absurd.

And he plays in a league that is easy to dominate. It's either Clemson, FSU, and a bunch of stiffs and haven't sniffed a national championship for decades.
 
UPitt '89 said:
It's not just championships, though that is a big part.

Swinney's teams regularly come up huge in big games. Harbaugh's teams regularly choke in the biggest moments.

Teams take on the personality of their coaches.

Swinney projects confidence and belief, and his teams feed off of it.

Harbaugh is a whining asshole whose sphincter tightens when the going gets tough. And then he goes ballistic on the refs, on his players, on the media... on anyone he can... in order to blame the loss on anybody but himself.

They both win lots of games.... but Swinner is a "winner". Harbaugh is a "choker".
Click to expand...

Dabo's teams REGULARLY come up huge in big games?

By regularly you mean last night?
 
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TD_6082 said:
Saban will probably be back in the playoffs next year. I



No. He isn't. That statement is absurd.

And he plays in a league that is easy to dominate. It's either Clemson, FSU, and a bunch of stiffs and haven't sniffed a national championship for decades.
Click to expand...

That description fits the B1G. Ohio State, Michigan....and a bunch of stiffs that haven't sniffed a national championship for decades.

It also fits the Big 12.... Oklahoma, Texas.... and a bunch of stiffs that haven't sniffed a national championship for decades.

It also fits the Pac 12... USC, Oregon... and a bunch of stiffs that haven't sniffed a national championship for decades.


Right now... meaning 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.... Alabama happens to be in a league that is easier for them to dominate. 5 years ago, no.... but right now, yes.
 
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TD_6082 said:
Dabo's teams REGULARLY come up huge in big games?

By regularly you mean last night?
Click to expand...
No... I mean 5-1 in the their past 6 post-season games.... including twice against Urban Meyer and once against Saban and twice against Stoops.

I also mean ACC championship games.... or ACC regular season games that decide the championship.... like against FSU and Louisville this year and FSU last year.

You know... the games that Harbaugh seems to have a tough time winning.
 
UPitt '89 said:
No... I mean 5-1 in the their past 6 post-season games.... including twice against Urban Meyer and once against Saban and twice against Stoops.

I also mean ACC championship games.... or ACC regular season games that decide the championship.... like against FSU and Louisville this year and FSU last year.

You know... the games that Harbaugh seems to have a tough time winning.
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ACC Championship games? Playing the Coastal Division Champion has been like clubbing a baby seal to death lately. Are those ACC Championship games really that much bigger than a NFC Championship game for a trip to a Super Bowl? Call me crazy, but I don't really think so.

I just thank God Dabo was on the sidelines in the last 5 minutes of our game with Clemson instead of Harbaugh. If you are honest, you do too.
 
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TD_6082 said:
ACC Championship games? Playing the Coastal Division Champion has been like clubbing a baby seal to death lately.

I just thank God Dabo was on the sidelines in the last 5 minutes of our game with Clemson instead of Harbaugh. If you are honest, you do too.
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When Harbaugh wins a championship, then u can get back to me. Dabo will let his championship rings do the talking while Harbaugh keeps yapping away.
 
TD_6082 said:
I just thank God Dabo was on the sidelines in the last 5 minutes of our game with Clemson instead of Harbaugh. If you are honest, you do too.
Click to expand...

I just rewatched the last 10 seconds of Michigan/Michigan State from 2015 and no..., Harbaugh is no assurance of victory simply by being on the sideline in the closing moments.

I know you're trolling real hard since Clemson put a big dent in your world of hyped up coaches from the SEC and BIG being dreamy and all, but did you really diminish Clemson for beating out FSU for their division to play for/win the conference championship as if it somehow escalates Harbaugh? LOL.

They're both good coaches, not the level of Saban or even Meyer but in some order that follows those 2 contingent on how anyone wants to spin it.
 
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You mean the game when Bear Bryant Harbaugh didn't have his special teams in max protect and had a gunner no one on the botched punt at the end? That one?
 
I cant wait to see the Nitter program drop like a drunk leaving a bar at 3 am from # 8 to maybe somewhere in the 20's.
I see the Nitters as an 9-3 or 8-4 program in 2017. I dont think McSorley will complete the key "throw the ball up" passes that he completed at crucial times in 2017. The BIG teams won't self destruct next season like they did when they played the Nitters in 2016.
Frankie football will be back on the hot seat in 2017 so keep the suitcases packed Frankie. The end is coming!
 
TD_6082 said:
ACC Championship games? Playing the Coastal Division Champion has been like clubbing a baby seal to death lately. Are those ACC Championship games really that much bigger than a NFC Championship game for a trip to a Super Bowl? Call me crazy, but I don't really think so.

I just thank God Dabo was on the sidelines in the last 5 minutes of our game with Clemson instead of Harbaugh. If you are honest, you do too.
Click to expand...
If Dabo was on the sidelines at Iowa on Nov 12... or Ohio State on Nov 26... instead of Harbaugh.... perhaps Michigan would've been in the playoffs.
 
UPitt '89 said:
LOL.

Before the game, all we heard was how Alabama was superior on both sides of the ball at every position except QB. Now, you equate that sole Clemson advantage as the be-all and end-all that trumps Alabama's advantage everywhere else.

Secondly... it isn't *ONE* year. It's six. Here's Clemson's record the past 6 seasons:
10-4
11-2
11-2
10-3
14-1
14-1

70-13

2-0 against Urban Meyer
1-1 against Nick Saban
2-0 against Bob Stoops
1-0 against Les Miles

Three ACC titles... Five Atlantic division titles.

45 players from his Clemson rosters are playing in the NFL right now.

Nobody moves goalposts like you, TD. Nobody.

Swinney is the 2nd-best coach in College Football at the moment.... behind only Saban.
Click to expand...
It's Saban, Urban, then an open debate that Dabo is heavily involved in.

How you could put Dabo ahead of Urban is beyond me. Only on the Lair., where provincial bias supersedes fact every time.

I like Dabo a lot, and I think he has definitely proven himself to be one of the best, but last time I checked he's two national championships short of Urban. It will be interesting to see how he does in the post Watson era. That was one very special, game changing, born winner of a player. He pretty much single-handedly willed his team to win last night. I expect Clemson will be really good as long as Dabo is there, but it may be a long while before he sees another NC.
 
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thebadby2 said:
It's Saban, Urban, then an open debate that Dabo is heavily involved in.

How you could put Dabo ahead of Urban is beyond me. Only on the Lair., where provincial bias supersedes fact every time.

I like Dabo a lot, and I think he has definitely proven himself to be one of the best, but last time I checked he's two national championships short of Urban. It will be interesting to see how he does in the post Watson era. That was one very special, game changing, born winner of a player. He pretty much single-handedly willed his team to win last night. I expect Clemson will be really good as long as Dabo is there, but it may be a long while before he sees another NC.
Click to expand...

There are good arguments to be made for Urban Meyer ahead of Dabo Swinney. But I will say this..... Dabo Swinney is a perfect 2-0 whenever he's faced Urban Meyer head-to-head. Urban outcoaches everyone else... but not Dabo.

But there are no very good arguments that put Harbaugh ahead of Swinney.
 
TD_6082 said:
And that


1 year doesn't make him a great coach. He had his hands full last night despite having a HUGE advantage at QB.
Click to expand...

LOL, he just won a national championship, the second straight title game he has been to. And dealt Saban his first title game loss.

But yeah, he had his hands full in the national championship game against Alabama, the horror.
 
TD_6082 said:
I bet we will never see a Harbaugh team go into a game as a 3.5 point favorite and lose 70-33.
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I wouldnt be so sure.

We saw an Urban Meyer team go into a game as a 3.5 favorite and lose 31-0... just 10 days ago.

You want to quibble over a 37 point beatdown vs a 31 point beatdown?
 
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Pitt1995 said:
LOL, he just won a national championship, the second straight title game he has been to. And dealt Saban his first title game loss.

But yeah, he had his hands full in the national championship game against Alabama, the horror.
Click to expand...

Flip QBs and that game isnt close. Hurts sucked last night. Bama's game plan offensively sucked last night.
 
UPitt '89 said:
I wouldnt be so sure.

We saw an Urban Meyer team go into a game as a 3.5 favorite and lose 31-0... just 10 days ago.

You want to quibble over a 37 point beatdown vs a 31 point beatdown?[/QUOTE

Urban overachieved this year with the youngest team in college football. I bet he sees anothet CFP before Dabo.]
Click to expand...
 
TD_6082 said:
That's true. I'll take great recruiting and mediocre coaching any day over great coaching and mediocre talent.
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You do realize that Alabama and Ohio St had more talent on their roster than Clemson according to recruiting rankings, right?? Another swing and a miss on your part.
 
Piranha said:
You do realize that Alabama and Ohio St had more talent on their roster than Clemson according to recruiting rankings, right?? Another swing and a miss on your part.
Click to expand...

All three programs are loaded with talent. Talent isn't an issue. Bama's problem last night was that their freshman QB played like garbage.

Since 2009, Bama has twice as many titles as Clemson does in their entire history. Bama still owns the greatest modern college football dynasty. And they probably aren't finished.
 
TD_6082 said:
All three programs are loaded with talent. Talent isn't an issue. Bama's problem last night was that their freshman QB played like garbage.

Since 2009, Bama has twice as many titles as Clemson does in their entire history. Bama still owns the greatest modern college football dynasty. And they probably aren't finished.
Click to expand...
Talent + Good Coaching = National Championship

You cannot win it all unless you have both.
 
TD_6082 said:
Flip QBs and that game isnt close. Hurts sucked last night. Bama's game plan offensively sucked last night.
Click to expand...
Flip defenses and Clemson wins by 20.

Of course if you take the best players off the winning team and put them on the losing team the result changes. Duh.

You're increasingly becoming a bigger joke the longer this thread goes.

Ps. Who put together Bama's game plan that "sucked" according to you? The coaches. I thought Saban was incapable of sucking?
 
Piranha said:
Championships as a Player and Coach
Dabo - 2
Jim Harbaugh - 0

Also - Dabo is younger.
Click to expand...
Piranha said:
You do realize that Alabama and Ohio St had more talent on their roster than Clemson according to recruiting rankings, right?? Another swing and a miss on your part.
Click to expand...
Do you realize that OSU had the youngest starting roster in D1 football? There's a big difference between freshman and sophomore 4 and 5 stars and junior/senior 4/5 stars.

All of those schools are top 5 in terms of overall team talent. That's the biggest reason they get to the CFP to begin with. But the biggest difference this season, and the reason Clemson won it all, is they had DeShaun Watson, and the others didn't. That's a very special, once in a while kind of player at the biggest position of impact.
 
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89, I thought Bama's game plan sort of played into Clemson's hands as the game went along. I thought they tried to speed up the tempo too much to get Hurts in a rhythm, and I thought they should have stayed with the running game a lot more in the second half. Far too many times they had decent down and distance on 2nd and 3rd down and dialed up pass plays.

Anyways, thanks for the debates. They provided some good entertainment while I was about to go stir crazy due to the snow. I'd still take Harbaugh any day and every day over Dabo. :D
 
Piranha said:
Many teams? Who?
Click to expand...

I don't know about "many teams." But Les Miles has a national championship and I think he is a much better recruiter than game-day coach. How many can a coach **** up clock management in the final minute without ever getting better at it?
 
Piranha said:
Championships as a Player and Coach
Dabo - 2
Jim Harbaugh - 0

Also - Dabo is younger.
Click to expand...

What does a national championship won as a player have to do with who is the better coach? o_O By that metric, anyone on the roster at Alabama from 2009-2012 would be the better coach because they won three national titles as a player.
 
Joe Pa Thetic said:
What does a national championship won as a player have to do with who is the better coach? o_O By that metric, anyone on the roster at Alabama from 2009-2012 would be the better coach because they won three national titles as a player.
Click to expand...
That was ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Dabo never saw the field at Bama. That someone actually threw that out there in a debate (ridiculous debate) about who's a better coach than who is so, well, Pantherlair.....
 
I don't really have much opinion in this argument, but I will say one thing, I don't think too many Clemson fans were holding Dabo in rarified air after the Pitt game.
 
OriginalEther said:
I don't really have much opinion in this argument, but I will say one thing, I don't think too many Clemson fans were holding Dabo in rarified air after the Pitt game.
Click to expand...

When Harbaugh loses to Ohio State for the third straight time next year, he's not going to be held in high esteem in Ann Arbor.
 
OriginalEther said:
I don't really have much opinion in this argument, but I will say one thing, I don't think too many Clemson fans were holding Dabo in rarified air after the Pitt game.
Click to expand...
You would be mistaken.

Clemson fans love the guy, and there was very little complaining about Swinney after the game.

You're projecting what Pitt fans would act like on other fan bases.
 
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