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Wake Forest Game @ The Pete & Other Dribbles ...

Great job.
Justin is not going pro. He doesn’t have the tools yet.
I hope you are right. Nor am I disagreeing with your thought that Justin doesn't have the tools yet. But at this point, it looks like he'll be drafted. There's even a little bit of chatter about the possibility of late first round. I think that would be more than enough to get him to go.
 
Which is what I’m saying. He’s fine. But he went for 8 points on 9 shots and there are comparisons of him to Hall of Famers... I mean, let’s relax and let the kid grow and not put unrealistic expectations on him.
From what I've seen if him, (I missed today's game) he shoots like he expects to miss. Not confident looking. U should never be thinking it's not going in.
 
Anybody that thought WJ would burst onto the scene as a 17 year old and do immediate damage is a fool. He will be a very good college player when it is all said and done. Maverick Rowan was still in 10th grade at the same age.


Jeffress has been much better on defense these last 2 games than any part of the whole season. That is progress on one end of the floor. He still failed to close a 3 point shooter tonight, but he is starting to understand closing distance and help defense better.


The shooting percentages doesn't mean much for him at this stage because he showed he could knock them down in the past. I posted Jeffress' complete breakdown senior season stats previously. He made more than enough shots from 3 and the midrange to show he can knock them down at a high volume level. Sometimes that doesn't translate to the college level immediately, but it should in time.


I mean, bballinsider has talked about not knowing a player that struggled his freshmen season shooting than turned it around. Tray Woodall shot 8% from 3 and 50% from the line his true freshmen season. The following year coming off his redshirt, he shot 26% from 3 and 64% from the line. By the time Woodall hit his junior and senior year, he was knocking down almost 2 threes per game at 39% and 37% year over year. There is a fine line difference being in your 4th and 5th year in a college program and being 17 and the youngest ACC player in 40 years.
 
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I hope you are right. Nor am I disagreeing with your thought that Justin doesn't have the tools yet. But at this point, it looks like he'll be drafted. There's even a little bit of chatter about the possibility of late first round. I think that would be more than enough to get him to go.
Both Blair and Young were first rounders , but somehow slipped to the second and both had superior skills than JC .

Glad ur back always enjoy the read .
 
From what I've seen if him, (I missed today's game) he shoots like he expects to miss. Not confident looking. U should never be thinking it's not going in.

For the first time today, he did shoot the ball at times like he DIDN'T expect to miss. But he does drive to the hole like he's afraid he's going to get blocked (and he usually does get blocked.)
 
Horton has been a bit of an enigma for me. He's done great in some games and is silenced in others. Nobody likes that. We want predictable 10 7 3 or whatever line.

Jeffries didn't have the box score but he looked liked a guy who belonged and had upside to me. Nike looked really smooth in a ton of critical areas except shooting. Unless it was a free throw. Odukale still reminds me of Leveon bell running the ball and taking all day to get going. AKC has really good potential I think, hopefully he develops accordingly. Key point because I think he can become a force. On all fronts.

There are missing pieces and the team is a wreck overall. This was WF. I think if Penny wants to be a pro he really needs to dial the emotion in for each play. Though I can understand it when you look at NBA stars because they do they same crap. Flaiing arms and hair after ever play just gets tiresome.
 
Jeffress physically looks like if you ran a high school sophomore out there in the old summer league. You can tell he knows what he’s doing and is a good player, but he just looks like a kid out there physically and there’s only so much that you can do to overcome that right now in his development. That’s not a dig on him, it’s to be expected. He is literally, by his age, a juvenile.
 
Horton goes as his shot goes and right now it's not going so he's struggling with confidence.

Needs to just let it go keep shooting and not look over his shoulder if he misses.

Next time out hopefully the first couple of shots fall if that happens you'll see a completely different player.
 
** It's a win, so why not dribble!

** Someone asked me why I didn't write after last game, and I explained that my heart just wasn't in it.

** But what I told him I concluded from last game was very much the same that I would conclude about this game. First, it's very good to see that the remainder of the team has responded well to the extreme adversity they have faced in the last several days. No one has packed it in, and everyone seems committed to making the most of the remainder of the season.

** This of course, is not a remarkable accomplishment. But no one would have been surprised if everything had all gone further south too.

** The second conclusion from both games is that I'm convinced we aren't headed for a Stallings-like 0-18 disaster next year, even if Justin leaves for the NBA as I expect him to.

** Now keep in mind that 0-18 is really special kind of bad, so I was never thinking it would be quite at that low anyway. But I was thinking about a 2-3 ACC win season. I think now that we can be at least a little better than that. Not much, but better. Maybe avoiding last place, or even next to last. But still a long way to go.

** The third thing I thought about last game is that Femi has a really good chance to be a really good ACC guard. Even though Femi wasn't as good this time out, I will still stick with this point.

** Who would have thought 10 days ago that we'd actually be clamoring for Nike to stick around? Now keep in mind that his stellar performance today should be tempered knowing that he banked in a three, and another was a brick that died on the rim then fell him. But today he demonstrated that he's a capable ACC level player who probably could be counted on for 15-20 minutes on a regular basis.

** I simply do not know what has happened to Ithiel. He looks completely disengaged and uninspired. Every Panther but IH seems to have risen the the occasion, but he looks like the situation has gotten the best of him for now.

** It was nice to see William play significant minutes and produce. Some tools are evident, and he certainly plays with his heart on his sleeve (I mean that as a good thing). But I still need to see more before I'm convinced he'll fill the promise of a four-star recruit.

** Congrats to Terrell. Like everyone else, I've grumbled about his play over four years. But a post by @levance2 really realigned my thinking on TB. He's stuck through four of the worst years of Pitt Basketball, and a stretch when they have averaged about 4 conference wins a season. I'm not suggesting we celebrate his skills, but instead appreciate his loyalty.

** Hopefully HCJC will be able to pull some magic out of his mask and find some capable players who get play some important minutes. I'm not optimistic this can be pulled off, and along those lines, I think I'd rather Terrell stick around and play some spot minutes than take a long reach on a big who just isn't ready to play.

** We already have one of those bigs in Max, and even Noah is not much further along unfortunately.

** The following statement is both a compliment and a negative for Coach Capel. There were many points moments today when we watched some of our most consistent execution of an offense of the season. So I'm glad to see Coach could get the guys all back on the same page. But it does make one wonder why we've struggled so much in the last several games to play on the same page.

** I'll end with Justin. Earlier I stated my belief that he will go pro after this season. I sure hope not, for no other reason that I'd simply just love to watch him one more year. Because of the turmoil this year has been, I'm not sure we have completely appreciated how good he really has been.

** His 20 and 13 production today looked nearly effortless.

** And that isn't to say he wasn't providing full effort. In fact, I liked his defensive effort better in this game than in quite some time.

** Many of us wondered if the knee was bothering him in some games in the past four weeks, and if it was, perhaps he's feeling a bit better.

** So now I'm looking forward to the Clemson game on Saturday. Closing the regular season with two wins would be really nice step for the program, all other things considered.

** But regardless, congrats on the win tonight!
-"It's a win, so why not dribble." I liked that very much.
-A few things I liked about Champ tonight. He was very engaged rough the first 4 minutes while on the bench supporting the guys. He really did not play a great game (for him), but when you check the final box score 20 and 13 is pretty special. I also do think that for one of the first games this year, that he really did make play with some serious effort on the defensive end.
-Ithiel looks bad and not part of the best 5 right now. That would easily be a lineup of Femi, Nike, Will, Champ and AKC. If he cannot be a guy who comes in and hits 2, 3 or 4 three's a game, then he can't be a net positive player because his defense is sub par.
-IMO there is no way that you can't ask Nike back. He and X are pretty much a wash in what they give you, but couldn't co-exist on the court together. X is more flashy, but also more TO prone. Nike is solid and will be a 10-15 ppg scorer next year.
-Will was a plus 21 tonight and does it more with length and athleticism than anything else. Right now he can give you a lot of the things that Toney did as a Frosh and the ceiling is higher.
-I cooked Terrell and would welcome him back if he wanted to come back. It doesn't look like it though. But in years where he saw very little wins and much drama, he managed to stay above it all and become a team leader even when he barely played.
-Of course I look forward to the next game, but I don't expect this one to go well. Clemson is just too experienced and too good defensively for us to beat them. I just hope we can hang. I do give us a decent chance of winning one ACC game for the 3rd year in a row.
 
-"It's a win, so why not dribble." I liked that very much.
-A few things I liked about Champ tonight. He was very engaged rough the first 4 minutes while on the bench supporting the guys. He really did not play a great game (for him), but when you check the final box score 20 and 13 is pretty special. I also do think that for one of the first games this year, that he really did make play with some serious effort on the defensive end.
-Ithiel looks bad and not part of the best 5 right now. That would easily be a lineup of Femi, Nike, Will, Champ and AKC. If he cannot be a guy who comes in and hits 2, 3 or 4 three's a game, then he can't be a net positive player because his defense is sub par.
-IMO there is no way that you can't ask Nike back. He and X are pretty much a wash in what they give you, but couldn't co-exist on the court together. X is more flashy, but also more TO prone. Nike is solid and will be a 10-15 ppg scorer next year.
-Will was a plus 21 tonight and does it more with length and athleticism than anything else. Right now he can give you a lot of the things that Toney did as a Frosh and the ceiling is higher.
-I cooked Terrell and would welcome him back if he wanted to come back. It doesn't look like it though. But in years where he saw very little wins and much drama, he managed to stay above it all and become a team leader even when he barely played.
-Of course I look forward to the next game, but I don't expect this one to go well. Clemson is just too experienced and too good defensively for us to beat them. I just hope we can hang. I do give us a decent chance of winning one ACC game for the 3rd year in a row.
That's how I like to see Jeffress is to project him compared to Toney.
I think he projects that he'll be better than Toney except probably individual defense. However with Jeffress' length, he'll be a more diverse defender and i think Jeffress seems like he'll be a really plus defender.
So even in the category it's not going to be a big difference overtime.
But eventually offensively, Jeffress got Toney beat or equally in what their offensive ceiling is, in almost every category.
 
Haha you don’t spend much time on twitter during games

That’s your mistake lol.

You know I usually like your takes, but I do think you’re trying too hard to rain on the parade here. No rational poster ITT is expecting Jeffress to turn into Kobe and start outplaying NBAers as an 18 year old. But we are all fans and we need reasons to stay engaged when things look bleak. I missed the game yesterday but it seems like this was the first time he wasn’t a total negative. That’s reason to be optimistic that, as @DT_PITT said, we could get a freshman Toney like season from him next year.
 
Even with X and Toney, I probably would’ve expected similar results these past 2 games.

Clemson has had Pitt’s number sort of like NC St (it’s been bad) and are on a 5 game win streak, so if they can give them a fight down there I’ll be content all things considered.
 
** Congrats to Terrell. Like everyone else, I've grumbled about his play over four years. But a post by @levance2 really realigned my thinking on TB. He's stuck through four of the worst years of Pitt Basketball, and a stretch when they have averaged about 4 conference wins a season. I'm not suggesting we celebrate his skills, but instead appreciate his loyalty.
For me, it isn't just that TB has stuck around out of desperation (as with a guy like Samson George), but the fact that he's gone from starting 17 games as a freshman to this senior night being his only start this season. He's never been a star player (his ORtg peaked at 104 last year) but he's played 118 games in his career. He's played for two under-performing coaches, and been willing to serve whatever role has been asked of him.

In an age of constant transfers, it would've been easy for him to leave, like all his Stallings teammates did, and several of his Capel teammates. Obviously I can't speak to his mental state, but for him to put up with all he has, on and off the court with this program, he must genuinely like it at the University of Pittsburgh. That wins my appreciation.
 
That’s your mistake lol.

You know I usually like your takes, but I do think you’re trying too hard to rain on the parade here. No rational poster ITT is expecting Jeffress to turn into Kobe and start outplaying NBAers as an 18 year old. But we are all fans and we need reasons to stay engaged when things look bleak. I missed the game yesterday but it seems like this was the first time he wasn’t a total negative. That’s reason to be optimistic that, as @DT_PITT said, we could get a freshman Toney like season from him next year.
Any time on Twitter is a mistake
 
I hope you are right. Nor am I disagreeing with your thought that Justin doesn't have the tools yet. But at this point, it looks like he'll be drafted. There's even a little bit of chatter about the possibility of late first round. I think that would be more than enough to get him to go.
It doesn’t seem many people understand the NBA draft. Steven Adams certainly wasn’t “more ready” than Blair or Young but was a lottery pick. It doesn’t matter if you’re “ready”. He has shown he can produce, has a transferable skill in rebounding, and projects to be a solid 3 and D guy because of his athleticism. That pinned block yesterday with both hands is a perfect example. That’s a play that shows he can do some things on the court he just can’t teach.

What does that all add up to? I don’t know. But he runs the risk of never being drafted if something happens with those knees again or he doesn’t show improvement in any of these areas over the course of the next year.
 
** Now keep in mind that 0-18 is really special kind of bad, so I was never thinking it would be quite at that low anyway. But I was thinking about a 2-3 ACC win season. I think now that we can be at least a little better than that. Not much, but better. Maybe avoiding last place, or even next to last. But still a long way to go.

While I think 0-20 is a possibility, it would be extremely unlikely. I would say the odds would favor 3-17. That said, in Year 4, I am not going to get real excited about avoiding last place or next to last as you suggest.

It all comes down to the 2022 class. If that class is very strong, it can get us through what should be a really bad season next year.
 
For me, it isn't just that TB has stuck around out of desperation (as with a guy like Samson George), but the fact that he's gone from starting 17 games as a freshman to this senior night being his only start this season. He's never been a star player (his ORtg peaked at 104 last year) but he's played 118 games in his career. He's played for two under-performing coaches, and been willing to serve whatever role has been asked of him.

In an age of constant transfers, it would've been easy for him to leave, like all his Stallings teammates did, and several of his Capel teammates. Obviously I can't speak to his mental state, but for him to put up with all he has, on and off the court with this program, he must genuinely like it at the University of Pittsburgh. That wins my appreciation.

Great post. Agree completely.
 
Horton seems to be a real sensitive kid. It took him a while to adjust this year and then he started playing well. He seems like the type that would be affected by the transfers and having to play with new guys. At least that’s what I’m hoping. I think he could be a good player but his head gets in the way. Not sure if he will overcome it.
 
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Horton goes as his shot goes and right now it's not going so he's struggling with confidence.

Needs to just let it go keep shooting and not look over his shoulder if he misses.

Next time out hopefully the first couple of shots fall if that happens you'll see a completely different player.
Doesn’t explain his absolute garbage defense
 
** It's a win, so why not dribble!

** Someone asked me why I didn't write after last game, and I explained that my heart just wasn't in it.

** But what I told him I concluded from last game was very much the same that I would conclude about this game. First, it's very good to see that the remainder of the team has responded well to the extreme adversity they have faced in the last several days. No one has packed it in, and everyone seems committed to making the most of the remainder of the season.

** This of course, is not a remarkable accomplishment. But no one would have been surprised if everything had all gone further south too.

** The second conclusion from both games is that I'm convinced we aren't headed for a Stallings-like 0-18 disaster next year, even if Justin leaves for the NBA as I expect him to.

** Now keep in mind that 0-18 is really special kind of bad, so I was never thinking it would be quite at that low anyway. But I was thinking about a 2-3 ACC win season. I think now that we can be at least a little better than that. Not much, but better. Maybe avoiding last place, or even next to last. But still a long way to go.

** The third thing I thought about last game is that Femi has a really good chance to be a really good ACC guard. Even though Femi wasn't as good this time out, I will still stick with this point.

** Who would have thought 10 days ago that we'd actually be clamoring for Nike to stick around? Now keep in mind that his stellar performance today should be tempered knowing that he banked in a three, and another was a brick that died on the rim then fell him. But today he demonstrated that he's a capable ACC level player who probably could be counted on for 15-20 minutes on a regular basis.

** I simply do not know what has happened to Ithiel. He looks completely disengaged and uninspired. Every Panther but IH seems to have risen the the occasion, but he looks like the situation has gotten the best of him for now.

** It was nice to see William play significant minutes and produce. Some tools are evident, and he certainly plays with his heart on his sleeve (I mean that as a good thing). But I still need to see more before I'm convinced he'll fill the promise of a four-star recruit.

** Congrats to Terrell. Like everyone else, I've grumbled about his play over four years. But a post by @levance2 really realigned my thinking on TB. He's stuck through four of the worst years of Pitt Basketball, and a stretch when they have averaged about 4 conference wins a season. I'm not suggesting we celebrate his skills, but instead appreciate his loyalty.

** Hopefully HCJC will be able to pull some magic out of his mask and find some capable players who get play some important minutes. I'm not optimistic this can be pulled off, and along those lines, I think I'd rather Terrell stick around and play some spot minutes than take a long reach on a big who just isn't ready to play.

** We already have one of those bigs in Max, and even Noah is not much further along unfortunately.

** The following statement is both a compliment and a negative for Coach Capel. There were many points moments today when we watched some of our most consistent execution of an offense of the season. So I'm glad to see Coach could get the guys all back on the same page. But it does make one wonder why we've struggled so much in the last several games to play on the same page.

** I'll end with Justin. Earlier I stated my belief that he will go pro after this season. I sure hope not, for no other reason that I'd simply just love to watch him one more year. Because of the turmoil this year has been, I'm not sure we have completely appreciated how good he really has been.

** His 20 and 13 production today looked nearly effortless.

** And that isn't to say he wasn't providing full effort. In fact, I liked his defensive effort better in this game than in quite some time.

** Many of us wondered if the knee was bothering him in some games in the past four weeks, and if it was, perhaps he's feeling a bit better.

** So now I'm looking forward to the Clemson game on Saturday. Closing the regular season with two wins would be really nice step for the program, all other things considered.

** But regardless, congrats on the win tonight!
I love reading your dribbles. They usually means good things are happening in some way.
 
Looking ahead.......if we beat Clemson, we are locked in at 11. If we lose, we are likely 12.
12 is not so bad, we would draw 13 which would be Wake or BC in the 1st rd of the ACC tourney with the winner likely getting Clemson or Ga Tech at 5. That is not insurmountable to get a couple of wins, then you line up against likely Louisville. So....who knows. The ACC is not that good this year.
 
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Of course you will...


Hints are best for now. I already gave a hint about a player with a strong gpa that looks like the 2nd coming of RJ Davis that we are now "officially" recruiting hard instead of just monitoring. He is showcasing the ability to score from everywhere. It is unknown if he could or would reclass.


There is another kid from NY that is 100% 2021 eligible to class up that already broke the school record making 11 three points in a single game and whose stock is going to take off, its coming. He's a 0 star right now and a player that plays with a big chip on his shoulder.


And Jaquan Sanders, a name I already mentioned, continues to show flashes of Carl Krauser down at OSL, a school I want to build a pipeline with. NY has a lot of talent in 2022 not even close to being ranked right now because no one appears to be scouting the talent from the recruiting websites. There are multiple, multiple, players from NY that are vastly underrated and the talent "from" the Bronx is loaded.


Im telling you. The 2022 guard talent is deep with real players that could take us places, a wide variety. The frontcourt talent is thinner pickings right now.


I dont need to give a bunch of names right now. If one of these players commits, it will match some of the prior hints I gave.
 
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Yay it’s back.

I think Horton saw my Pantherlair preseason projection of points and decided to make me right and Vader wrong.

I agree with you about Jeffress. I think he has a shot to be solid. Living up to the 4 star status seems like it will be a stretch if for no other reason than he can’t shoot. I feel like I’m watching a completely different game than Pitt Twitter fans are. The effusive praise for him is so over the top it’s insane. I honestly feel he could take a shit on the court and it would be the greatest thing ever.

Horton has been brutal the last few games, but he was just horrible last night. He's either checked out or something is wrong with him.

I'll ask the question, what is living up to a 4 star status? I haven't analyzed this, but what's the realistic expectation of a 4 star recruit? Obviously, some will flame out, some will be good contributors, some will be good players. Do you expect 50% to become good players?

I think the effusive praise you mention is a bit much, but you're likely being too hard on him as well. He's shown he belongs on the court, and if he works hard he'll become a solid player. I think that lives up to being a 4 star recruit.
 
"Let me list as many names as possible in hopes I turn out to be right." Welcome to the @Sean Miller Fan method.

The point went right over your head. Literally...

The point is there is major talent in 2022 to be had. The point , there are real players on the table to potentially reclass to 2021 too.

This has nothing to do with me listing a bunch of names and hoping 1 commits so Im right. This has everything to do with Jeff Capel landing a "real" piece of talent that will help the program win games in the future. Don't get it twisted.
 
Horton has been brutal the last few games, but he was just horrible last night. He's either checked out or something is wrong with him.

I'll ask the question, what is living up to a 4 star status? I haven't analyzed this, but what's the realistic expectation of a 4 star recruit? Obviously, some will flame out, some will be good contributors, some will be good players. Do you expect 50% to become good players?

I think the effusive praise you mention is a bit much, but you're likely being too hard on him as well. He's shown he belongs on the court, and if he works hard he'll become a solid player. I think that lives up to being a 4 star recruit.
yeah I took a step back and realized I was being too hard on him. I don’t think the age matters much, as I’d rather have older players on the team than younger. The effusive praise is over the top as is my criticism. I think it’s more the “this kid has it” or whatever else such as comparisons to Shane Battier I saw that I was just like wtf are you watching. Imo, a kid like that would’ve flashed with at least a double digit effort once this year, if not even by accident. We will see. Hopefully he becomes the solid piece he is being billed to be.
 
This has nothing to do with me listing a bunch of names and hoping 1 commits so Im right. This has everything to do with Jeff Capel landing a "real" piece of talent that will help the program win games in the future. Don't get it twisted.
I will agree that this has nothing to do with any insight from you.
 
Looking ahead.......if we beat Clemson, we are locked in at 11. If we lose, we are likely 12.
12 is not so bad, we would draw 13 which would be Wake or BC in the 1st rd of the ACC tourney with the winner likely getting Clemson or Ga Tech at 5. That is not insurmountable to get a couple of wins, then you line up against likely Louisville. So....who knows. The ACC is not that good this year.
who knows what?
 
On a side note..... I like what I saw from Nike last night. He's athletic, looks like he has some game, and seems to be playing with a lot more confidence. I hope he sticks around.

Yes, a backcourt featuring major minutes from Nike and Femi is a good place to start. I feel like this team can be competitive without JC. How many wins that translates to is anyone's guess.
 
Thanks, DT.

I want Terrell and Nike back (I think its OK if Drumgoole moves on). But I'm getting concerned that we have a lot of open roster spots and no commitments. I know this isn't a .500 team in conference play next year, but I don't want the bottom to fall out again. And having 8 or 9 scholarship players risks that.
 
But it does make one wonder why we've struggled so much in the last several games to play on the same page.
Good post as usual, DT. Thanks.

But didn't the volcanic eruption that came to the surface last week answer the question of why we have struggled so much to play on the same page for awhile? It is evident that the chemistry on the team was really bad and now it is much better, which helps to offset the lost of 40% of our offense. We lost by one to Wake with X and Diese and won by 13 without them.
 
Yes, a backcourt featuring major minutes from Nike and Femi is a good place to start. I feel like this team can be competitive without JC. How many wins that translates to is anyone's guess.
Will depend on who we add the the front court
I think collier and jeffress will improve and be good rotational pieces -
Same with akc
But we need more post help and a bit more guard depth
 
For the first time today, he did shoot the ball at times like he DIDN'T expect to miss. But he does drive to the hole like he's afraid he's going to get blocked (and he usually does get blocked.)
Yep, again it looks like he expects to get it blocked and....well, he does. He usually falls away creating the space that helps promote it getting blocked. He should go straight up at worst, preferably kinda into the defender. Go strong. Lots, lots of room for improvement in all parts of his game. Apparently he has a good work ethic
 
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