What's the difference between OKST, KST, Baylor, TCU and Pitt, UNC, NCSU, UVa

[Sean Miller Fan]

I would imagine that all 8 schools spend fairly equivalent dollars on football but yet those B12 schools are very far ahead of the similar ACC schools and its because of one reason, right? Coaching.

The Big 12 hit the lottery with guys like Snyder, Patterson, Briles. At similar ACC programs, they've had the exact opposite experience with coaching carousels.

We talk a lot about how realistic it is for Pitt to be a national contender again but dont tell me that Baylor, TCU, OKST, and KST are inherently better programs than Pitt or other ACC schools. They just have great coaches and have gotten a little lucky.

 

[pittpitt]

Not only did those B12 schools get and keep great coaches, but they're in states that are Texas, Texas, next to Texas, and 34 miles from Texas. That certainly doesn't hurt, from a team talent standpoint.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Those schools are also willing to bring in very questionable players. See Oakman, Ukwuachu, etc. That's not the only reason, but when programs really don't consider their players as student athletes, they create an advantage over similar schools.

 

[NTOP]

I would imagine that all 8 schools spend fairly equivalent dollars on football but yet those B12 schools are very far ahead of the similar ACC schools and its because of one reason, right? Coaching.

The Big 12 hit the lottery with guys like Snyder, Patterson, Briles. At similar ACC programs, they've had the exact opposite experience with coaching carousels.

We talk a lot about how realistic it is for Pitt to be a national contender again but dont tell me that Baylor, TCU, OKST, and KST are inherently better programs than Pitt or other ACC schools. They just have great coaches and have gotten a little lucky.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ They spend more than Pitt, because they can. You make no mention of Kansas or ISU. I don't think their coaches are better than several ACC guys....Fisher, Beamer, Johnson, etc. Pitt & Miami have been the poster boys for instability....I hope we're now past that.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ They spend more than Pitt, because they can. You make no mention of Kansas or ISU. I don't think their coaches are better than several ACC guys....Fisher, Beamer, Johnson, etc. Pitt & Miami have been the poster boys for instability....I hope we're now past that.

I dont think they do spend much more.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I dont think they do spend much more.

Consider this to be just my humble opinion since I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'll opine that their fans give more money - no, make that a lot more money - to their respective football programs than Pitt football fans ever will.

 

[Ray-Ray]

Consider this to be just my humble opinion since I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'll opine that their fans give more money - no, make that a lot more money - to their respective football programs than Pitt football fans ever will.

Last I knew, of all the P-5 programs, Pitt ranked in the bottom 5 schools for donations to their sports programs by alumni and fans.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, Pitt fans give less but dollars are dollars and my hunch is the ACC schools I named are spending about as much as the Big 12 schools. My contention is that the Big 12 hit the coaching lottery and that's the only reason why they are having this glory period. TCU and Baylor were doormats forever and probably will be again someday.

 

[ratking17]

Ok st should be eliminated by t Boone alone. I agree though with your premise on coaching matters

 

[PushupMan]

I dont think they do spend much more.

Football Revenues and Expenses for the 8 schools you mentioned (latest data is from 2013-14 academic year): (Source is the Equity in Athletics website)

TCU: Expenses $34,654,689, Revenue $40,451,397
Baylor: Expenses $24,574,507, Revenue $28,317,369
KState: Expenses $16,639,645, Revenue $32,729,335
OKState: Expenses $22,228,460, Revenue $48,635,619

Pitt: Expenses $17,982,090, Revenue $33,261,045
NC: Expenses $20,196,473, Revenue $28,226,861
NC State: Expenses $17,988,989, Revenue $38,020,861
UVa: Expenses $20,193,977, Revenue $28,225,141

Average football expenses for the 4 Big 12 schools: $24.5 million
Average football expenses for the 4 ACC schools: $19.1 million (78% of $24.5 million)

Average football revenues for the 4 Big 12 schools: $37.5 million
Average football revenues for the 4 ACC schools: $31.9 million (85% of $37.5 million)

To me, this means that the 4 ACC schools value football less, because while they generate 85% of the revenue of the 4 Big 12 schools, they only spend 78% of the amount of money on the sport as the Big 12 schools do.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

It is not just finding a great coach but a coach that is great and wants to stay at Pitt! Johnny Majors and Jackie Sherrill all said was their biggest mistake when they left Pitt unlike Graham and Chryst that came and went to Arizona State and Wisky.

KSU had real trouble finding a New Coach to replace Bill Snyder and Snyder had to comeback and is now one of the oldest coaches in CFB? KSU Snyder is very unique and special using mostly JUCO Transfers and making them Top 25 Teams and had KSU ranked 20th Team in the nation from 1989-2005 and then coming back in 2009 and ranked 25th in winning right now.

Frank Beamer came to VT in 1987 and turn them into now winning at 18th ranking and sells out Vt Stadium now near 90,000. This is what 10+ Wins does for any Program.

Gary Patterson has TCU being the 7th Winning Program since 2000 and has turn down bigger and better jobs. Art Briles since 2008 has Baylor ranked at 34th in winning and has also turned down other jobs.

Mike Gundy at OKSU since 2005 is ranked 24th, but it was Les Miles that had two years there before him that built that Program that Gundy maintains now.

UNC is going through a terrible Academic/Athletic Scandal just like Penn State did with Sandusky and no one wants that to happen or can be proud of that kind of Coaching to their University no matter how much they win.

UNC went through 4 Coaches after Mack Brown left them in 1988-1997 to Texas and had UNC Ranked 26th. After that UNC is ranked 82nd with those 4 Coaches? Fedora is still rebuilding UNC since 2012 and is ranked 63rd in Winning? NCAA Sanctions are coming and he may leave?

Virginia brought back its Alumnus Al Groh from 2001-2009 and ranked 56th worse than Pitt ranked 34th during that same Era? Mike London took over in 2010 and has Virginia ranked 95th and that is worse than Pitt that had 7 Coaches and ranked 69th with a .507% Winning Percentage and that does not include Narduzzi being the 9th Coach?

UCLA and Miami both Urban Programs that have gone through Coaches too is a better comparison with Pitt because they are Urban Schools but have access to more and higher caliber Recruits in those regions too? UCLA has gone through 4 Coaches from 1996-2011 and ranked just 49th with Pitt at 47th during that same period? Jim Mora since 2012 has them ranked 19th now, but how long will Mora stay?

Miami has had 5 Head Coaches from 1995-2014 and ranked 15th with multiple NCAA Sanctions? Al Golden since 2011 has had them ranked 56th while Pitt is at 76th with the Pederson's Coaching Merry Go Around?

Sure, all these Programs have out recruited Pitt in most years due to all the Coaching Changes, but the one factor that brought success to a few was that VT, TCU, KSU, Baylor, and OKSU has been able to attract a Good Coaches and those Coaches have stayed at those Programs.

Yet, PITT has done a tad better than NCS and UVA that had the same problems having changing coaches and even less Coaches changes than Pitt's Programs and without Scandals or Sanctions like some others above?

Also, the University needs a Commitment from the Chancellor or President with a group of Big Booster contributors committed to Top 10 Winning & Recruiting such USC and Miami, but both have had NCAA Sanctions as well. These Programs have enough recruits right within the City Regions to keep a top 25 Program every year. Miami has the same Attendance problems as Pitt, UCLA used to too, but not USC?

UCincy & ULou also shows how Great Athletic Directors can choose good coaches even after they leave and we all know that was Pederson's problem at Pitt and Nebraska that made his own changes in his whims and consultants debacles?

Facts are keeping a Great Coach provides stability even better than money, recruiting, and attendance. Moreover, finding a great Football Coach is very rare and keeping one is even rarer, especially staying at an Urban University?

Coaching Changes 1996-2014 At Urban Universities Programs
& Winning Percentage 1996-2014:
3-TCU-14th, Forth Worth/Dallas
3-USF-51st*, Tampa *DI 2000!
3-Northwestern-68th, Chicago
3 Rice-80th, Houston
4-UCLA-41st, Los Angeles
4-CAL-76th, Oakland
5-Georgia Tech-29th, Atlanta
5-Boston College-40th, Boston
5-SMU-107th, Dallas
6-Miami-15th, Miami
6-Houston-59th, Houston
5-Temple-111th, Philadelphia
5-ULou-25th, Louisville
6-USC-13th, Los Angeles
6-Vanderbilt-109th, Nashville
7-UCincy-36th, Cincinnati
9-Pittsburgh To Pitt (Pederson AD Era)-52nd, Pittsburgh

Non-Urban Programs Mention By SMF Thread:
1-VT-6th
3-KSU-20th
3-OKSU-35th
3-UVA-60th
5-NCS-56th
5-Baylor-95th
6-UNC-72nd
Added Programs By Me:
4-PSU-22nd
5-WVU-24th

LINKS:
Coaching Records:
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php

Winning Percentages 1996-2014:
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin...=1996&end=2014&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

 

[HailtoPitt]

One group plays in an overrated conference where the marquee program (Texas) has totally been sucking.

The other plays in a conference where the marquee program (FSU) won the national title and then competed in the playoff.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

One group plays in an overrated conference where the marquee program (Texas) has totally been sucking.

The other plays in a conference where the marquee program (FSU) won the national title and then competed in the playoff.

 

[Pitt79]

Those schools are also willing to bring in very questionable players. See Oakman, Ukwuachu, etc. That's not the only reason, but when programs really don't consider their players as student athletes, they create an advantage over similar schools.

I've heard from insiders, who got to visit Narduzzi at practice with the new AD, that they claim to want to put winning as a priority, so hopefully we'll have those types of players soon.

And I don't equate bad students with bad people either #1, and anyways #2, I'd be willing to try to make it work with bad people... what's the worse that can happen? They commit too many crimes... kick 'em out of school at the point that you have to cover for them more than it's worth. Who cares about appearances, be willing to APPEAR as a football factory out to win. And of course the better the player, the higher the threshold has to be for getting rid of them.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

I've heard from insiders, who got to visit Narduzzi at practice with the new AD, that they claim to want to put winning as a priority, so hopefully we'll have those types of players soon.

And I don't equate bad students with bad people either #1, and anyways #2, I'd be willing to try to make it work with bad people... what's the worse that can happen? They commit too many crimes... kick 'em out of school at the point that you have to cover for them more than it's worth. Who cares about appearances, be willing to APPEAR as a football factory out to win. And of course the better the player, the higher the threshold has to be for getting rid of them.

If College Football Power Conferences go to a "For Profit League" that will compensate and benefit student player athletes, they will also require a more even playing field on Salaries, Rosters Restrictions, Coaching Uniformity, and other aspects that will make them more like the NFL whereby there is more parity in order to expand the sport and revenues.

 

[Tigertrain1]

I would imagine that all 8 schools spend fairly equivalent dollars on football but yet those B12 schools are very far ahead of the similar ACC schools and its because of one reason, right? Coaching.

The Big 12 hit the lottery with guys like Snyder, Patterson, Briles. At similar ACC programs, they've had the exact opposite experience with coaching carousels.

We talk a lot about how realistic it is for Pitt to be a national contender again but dont tell me that Baylor, TCU, OKST, and KST are inherently better programs than Pitt or other ACC schools. They just have great coaches and have gotten a little lucky.

Simple. Texas high school football. Tons of talent in Texas. Some of their high school games have larger crowds than Miami.

 

[runshadyrun]

I would imagine that all 8 schools spend fairly equivalent dollars on football but yet those B12 schools are very far ahead of the similar ACC schools and its because of one reason, right? Coaching.

The Big 12 hit the lottery with guys like Snyder, Patterson, Briles. At similar ACC programs, they've had the exact opposite experience with coaching carousels.

We talk a lot about how realistic it is for Pitt to be a national contender again but dont tell me that Baylor, TCU, OKST, and KST are inherently better programs than Pitt or other ACC schools. They just have great coaches and have gotten a little lucky.

Didn't OK State get like 3 billion $$ from an oil dude? And, I'll bet Baylor spends more then Pitt, didn't they do a new stadium recently?