“There will be people, universities, programs that have to fall along the wayside for the greater good of college athletics”

[pittdan77]

2nd point, his last one is valid. Many people 'banged the drum of change" as far as player compensation. well this is what happens, we all saw it, we saw it coming from a mile away. you go down this road, open this box, there will be consequences, dire ones and we are seeing that..

So all those fans that were screaming about playing players, well here you go. you got it. be careful what you wish for cause you got it and now 75% of D1 college programs are going to be left out of the party..

I think there were reasonable ways to solve the problem without it going this way. The heart of the issue is that schools didn't want to end up like SMU so they ran very public smear campaigns against the NCAA when they got busted for cheating. The NCAA was neutered from within and schools just pushed and pushed. The blue blood schools just pretended to ignore the payments that boosters were making to players because it didn't hurt them financially and it was all pretty small potatoes. Once TV money went over the moon, the same schools were willing to blow the whole thing up because there was more money to chase. The small schools were never going to compete under either system. The haves always make sure the have-nots get just enough to stay complacent.

 

[Chem95]

But many act like the NCAA is this nefarious boogie man when it is just (mostly) enforcing the rules on the books. If a school doesn't like the rule, have the state AG sue the NCAA. Everybody..sue the NCAA...it's fun. WVU sues because of the two time transfer rule....what's next? No more eligibility requirements...play for 8 years (undergrad & grad). Doesn't the same logic apply? If the NCAA is preventing someone from earning NIL due to a second transfer, can't they earn NIL while in grad school? Well, when Big/Sec break off, there will still have to be rules to be followed. Who will they sue then? Or will everything be a free for all?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But many act like the NCAA is this nefarious boogie man when it is just (mostly) enforcing the rules on the books. If a school doesn't like the rule, have the state AG sue the NCAA. Everybody..sue the NCAA...it's fun. WVU sues because of the two time transfer rule....what's next? No more eligibility requirements...play for 8 years (undergrad & grad). Doesn't the same logic apply? If the NCAA is preventing someone from earning NIL due to a second transfer, can't they earn NIL while in grad school? Well, when Big/Sec break off, there will still have to be rules to be followed. Who will they sue then? Or will everything be a free for all?

Yes, next will be an AG suing for unlimited eligibility. The Tennessee and Virginia AG's just sued to allow the use of NIL to recruit players. Soon, it will be a fully professional league with no eligibility-related rules except perhaps you have to be registered as a student and even then someone will sue to get that removed.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Ive always been a Pirates fan. I have precisely zero interest in the Yankees Red Sox games that seemingly show up on ESPN every Sunday night.

Same with the new normal in CFB. Bama is playing Texas? Ohio State-Oregon?

Pass.....im going golfing.

There is alot to say about this. Because of the Pirates ineptitude, basically MLB viewership to me has been nonexistent anymore outside of a few post season games. I really haven't watched or gotten into the NBA since I was a kid, and mostly is because I never really had a hometown team to follow. When Pitt BB was going 0fer the ACC, I never was less interested in college BB because it hurt so much.

Now. College FB. I love it. Even though really Pitt hasn't been a relevant contender for decades, they still were part of the biggest rung. They still theoretically had a chance. A chip at the table. Now, you are talking the nicest part of the year (IMO) weather wise. A time where there are always parties, other sporting events, just being outdoors, hell maybe take hunting back up, definitely golfing. I can easily tune out college football. It is one thing when Pitt makes self inflicted wounds and gives us the 1996 season, it is another when college FB tells you basically "you aren't part of the club".

Fine. Anyways, I say we already bring back off topic board because what the hell, at least talk about food and drink.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Yes, next will be an AG suing for unlimited eligibility. The Tennessee and Virginia AG's just sued to allow the use of NIL to recruit players. Soon, it will be a fully professional league with no eligibility-related rules except perhaps you have to be registered as a student and even then someone will sue to get that removed.

Well at that point, it becomes a CBA driven solution and the schools can't run away from it.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I think there were reasonable ways to solve the problem without it going this way. The heart of the issue is that schools didn't want to end up like SMU so they ran very public smear campaigns against the NCAA when they got busted for cheating. The NCAA was neutered from within and schools just pushed and pushed. The blue blood schools just pretended to ignore the payments that boosters were making to players because it didn't hurt them financially and it was all pretty small potatoes. Once TV money went over the moon, the same schools were willing to blow the whole thing up because there was more money to chase. The small schools were never going to compete under either system. The haves always make sure the have-nots get just enough to stay complacent.

Again, congress has been telling the NCAA to "fix it" since the O'Bannion case. Mark Emmert was the bureaucratic version of Punxsy Phil as he appears one time out of his hole to collect his paycheck and did nothing.

With the specter of Title IX hanging over this, instead of somehow coming up with a cohesive plan for revenue sports vs non revenue sports.

 

[NCPitt]

Again, congress has been telling the NCAA to "fix it" since the O'Bannion case. Mark Emmert was the bureaucratic version of Punxsy Phil as he appears one time out of his hole to collect his paycheck and did nothing.

With the specter of Title IX hanging over this, instead of somehow coming up with a cohesive plan for revenue sports vs non revenue sports.

He couldn't fix it alone given the differing laws by state. He was asking for help from Congress and it never came.

 

[pittdan77]

Again, congress has been telling the NCAA to "fix it" since the O'Bannion case. Mark Emmert was the bureaucratic version of Punxsy Phil as he appears one time out of his hole to collect his paycheck and did nothing.

With the specter of Title IX hanging over this, instead of somehow coming up with a cohesive plan for revenue sports vs non revenue sports.

This goes back further than that. Like, the 1950's when players ask for workmen's comp and they crafted the term "student-athlete" to swerve right around that. The rub has always been that the education these players were to be receiving would compensate them for what the university was getting but you had wat UNC hosting fake classes for athletes. They were using these kids up and spitting them out with next to nothing, in a lot of cases. NCAA lost that one, too, if you recall.

 

[Pitt79]

Ive always been a Pirates fan. I have precisely zero interest in the Yankees Red Sox games that seemingly show up on ESPN every Sunday night.

Same with the new normal in CFB. Bama is playing Texas? Ohio State-Oregon?

Pass.....im going golfing.

I won't be watching it either, but if Pitt is playing YSU at the same time Georgia is playing Michigan I'll be tuned to every second of the Pitt game, not caring at all what happens in that other game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I won't be watching it either, but if Pitt is playing YSU at the same time Georgia is playing Michigan I'll be tuned to every second of the Pitt game, not caring at all what happens in that other game.

They are not taking into account that they would be losing a large audience with a vested interest. Fans of Pitt, Kansas, Louisville, Oregon State, etc are in the millions and they arent going to watch a football league below the level of the NFL if their team isnt in it.

 

[TD_6082]

They are not taking into account that they would be losing a large audience with a vested interest. Fans of Pitt, Kansas, Louisville, Oregon State, etc are in the millions and they arent going to watch a football league below the level of the NFL if their team isnt in it.

Its not like those schools are going to fold their program though. There's a market there, revenue to be made, and the leftovers can form their own league. I'd be all for that. At this point, I think I'd welcome it.

 

[Pitt79]

They are not taking into account that they would be losing a large audience with a vested interest. Fans of Pitt, Kansas, Louisville, Oregon State, etc are in the millions and they arent going to watch a football league below the level of the NFL if their team isnt in it.

This is my contention all along, people don't necessarily choose their favorite college football team based on being the best or highest level of play, the people who watch Pitt just because they went to school there or lived in the area aren't going to just switch to one of the teams in the super league, a lot will opt out of college football altogether, or be willing to just ignore the super league and watch just Pitt games if they keep playing at some lesser level--- that will be me.

 

[Pitt79]

Its not like those schools are going to fold their program though. There's a market there, revenue to be made, and the leftovers can form their own league. I'd be all for that. At this point, I think I'd welcome it.

Me too, a lot of TV slots and sports channels needing content will keep it alive, I can definitely see myself being a big fan of some G5 or FCS league televised on CBSSN or The CW, that includes Pitt and never watch a down of any super league game ever.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Its not like those schools are going to fold their program though. There's a market there, revenue to be made, and the leftovers can form their own league. I'd be all for that. At this point, I think I'd welcome it.

Some will fold. Not all. There isnt a market there. The TV money to be made for an ACC that is in some FCS-type division won't be enough to break even. People watch Pitt, GT, Duke, and Wake because they are playing major college football. Take that away and the revenues wont be much different than Youngstown State or Murray State.

 

[Pitt79]

Some will fold. Not all. There isnt a market there. The TV money to be made for an ACC that is in some FCS-type division won't be enough to break even. People watch Pitt, GT, Duke, and Wake because they are playing major college football. Take that away and the revenues wont be much different than Youngstown State or Murray State.

FBS schools are televised every week, All the Montana and Dakota schools, In my area Towson and Morgan State and Delaware, UConn has a contract, Military schools have a contract, all the smaller G5s like USA and Sun Belt, MAC are always on TV, so that will all end?

 

[Ray-Ray]

FBS schools are televised every week, All the Montana and Dakota schools, In my area Towson and Morgan State and Delaware, UConn has a contract, Military schools have a contract, all the smaller G5s like USA and Sun Belt, MAC are always on TV, so that will all end?

The money train will end if Pitt is not in the upper tier. Also, I don't really want to see Pitt playing football on "Tuesday and Wednesday Night Maction"

 

[Pitt79]

The money train will end if Pitt is not in the upper tier. Also, I don't really want to see Pitt playing football on "Tuesday and Wednesday Night Maction"

It wouldn't matter to me, those would be the only college football games I'd watch, if there are no Pitt games at all anymore, I'd quit watching college football altogether probably, because just like now, I'd never watch a minute of SEC or B1G games, like i never do now.

 

[JS School]

Gee, I'd hate to see the Alabamas and Ohio States fall by the wayside for the greater good of college athletics. But maybe that will happen if the fans of the 85 or so colleges that get left out decide that the want to watch actual college football instead of the NFL minor league.

 

[Upg bobcat]

FBS schools are televised every week, All the Montana and Dakota schools, In my area Towson and Morgan State and Delaware, UConn has a contract, Military schools have a contract, all the smaller G5s like USA and Sun Belt, MAC are always on TV, so that will all end?

Here in Pittsburgh the 2nd KDKA channel broadcasts the D3 Presidents Athletic Conference game of the week. Or is it the D2 PSAC game of the week? Whatever it is, it's on TV here.

 

[USN_Panther]

I hope the G2 (Greedy 2) get their games all on a pay per view plan so all of those sucker fans get fleeced some more.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

Pate is saying the quiet part out loud regarding how the Big Ten/SEC views the ACC, Big 12, FBS, and even a few programs in their own conferences. I think we’re getting closer to those two coming together to form an NFL-lite league.

View embedded media

Pate should just roll over on his back, throw up his legs, and tell his masters to look for the pink hole.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

2nd point, his last one is valid. Many people 'banged the drum of change" as far as player compensation. well this is what happens, we all saw it, we saw it coming from a mile away. you go down this road, open this box, there will be consequences, dire ones and we are seeing that..

So all those fans that were screaming about playing players, well here you go. you got it. be careful what you wish for cause you got it and now 75% of D1 college programs are going to be left out of the party..

You've actually managed to get this almost 100% wrong.

If the NCAA had reformed itself, including allowing NIL, real NIL a couple decades ago like many people thought they should, we would be no where near where we are now. What the NCAA has done is to invite the chaos in, and they sit there after it arrives and wonder how things got so chaotic.

The NCAA tried to protect their golden cow for as long as they could, long after it was obvious that if they didn't fix the system the courts would "fix" the system for them. But they were far more interested in keeping the gravy train running than they were in doing the right thing.

Turns out that sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating over and over again "la la la la, I can't hear you" and then sticking your head in the sand was not a viable strategy. As some people have been saying for a long, long time.

 

[HailToPitt725]

You've actually managed to get this almost 100% wrong.

If the NCAA had reformed itself, including allowing NIL, real NIL a couple decades ago like many people thought they should, we would be no where near where we are now. What the NCAA has done is to invite the chaos in, and they sit there after it arrives and wonder how things got so chaotic.

The NCAA tried to protect their golden cow for as long as they could, long after it was obvious that if they didn't fix the system the courts would "fix" the system for them. But they were far more interested in keeping the gravy train running than they were in doing the right thing.

Turns out that sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating over and over again "la la la la, I can't hear you" and then sticking your head in the sand was not a viable strategy. As some people have been saying for a long, long time.

I agree with this. I feel like a possible solution could’ve been to treat all student athletes like undergrad research assistants (i.e., fixed pay scale), allow them to share profits through school merchandise sales, and offer strict NIL opportunities that eliminates the booster pay-to-pay system. I’m not sure what the final part would look like, though.

How far off am I here?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I agree with this. I feel like a possible solution could’ve been to treat all student athletes like undergrad research assistants (i.e., fixed pay scale), allow them to share profits through school merchandise sales, and offer strict NIL opportunities that eliminates the booster pay-to-pay system. I’m not sure what the final part would look like, though.

How far off am I here?

The clear solution, and it's still the clear solution, was some type of employment status. With that would come the ability to collectively bargain a contract that would apply to all NCAA athletes. Such a contract could spell out exactly what players could get and what they could not. It could lay out the parameters for permissible outside endorsement opportunities. It could spell out terms for when and how players would or would not be allowed to transfer. And a whole host of other things.

But that would have stopped, or at least seriously slowed the gravy train for all these schools. And they didn't want that. They still don't. And so they are going to get sued over and over, into a piecemeal system that no one likes or wants.

And at this point, by the time they get off their asses and actually try to solve the problem it may very well be too late.

 

[ebonylover40]

“There will be people, universities, programs that have to fall along the wayside for the greater good of college athletics”

We've been here before. That quote shares a lot of similarities with what Paterno was saying when he was driving for the division between Division 1-A and Division 1-AA. Obviously, some schools ending up in 1-AA that had some pull (e.g., the Ivies) lost it, and that might be what happens to the schools not in the Big 10 and SEC. But college football continued grow in popularity after that juncture. I don't think Big 10 and SEC are making any sort of fatal mistake.

Ah yeah they are making a mistake. Maybe all the 3 to 5 star players will go to that league, but there are so many players. They will get stuck on rosters and never get a chance to play.

I mean have these so called smart people thought about all the changes they will have to make. Like how mamy players on each roster, are the players going to stop going to classes and just be on a team, what about a union, because if they come up with huge contract with the networks, you better believe the players are going to seek even more money, and Im talking all the players. They will also eliminate some teams from big markets. People in NY, LA, wont watch. They dont watch now.

They are afraid of the NIL beacause it has allowed the other leagues and teams to scoop up the players they were getting. Fans watch college sports for its pagentry and their former schools or hometown school.

If they truly think everyone will forget about their school and turn to watch them, then they are about the dumbest people in the world.

 

[Pitt79]

If they truly think everyone will forget about their school and turn to watch them, then they are about the dumbest people in the world.

Unless they are banking on gamblers and those viewers with no real connection to any ''college", and want to just watch the best individual players or create mock drafts or people like the high school dropout who grew up in and lives in Pittsburgh and wears a Bama sweatshirt and calls the Tide "We". Are there more fans like that or fans with true connections to certain schools, like alumni or local people who live in the area where the school is and is a fan out of local pride?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

FBS schools are televised every week, All the Montana and Dakota schools, In my area Towson and Morgan State and Delaware, UConn has a contract, Military schools have a contract, all the smaller G5s like USA and Sun Belt, MAC are always on TV, so that will all end?

Those programs do not turn a profit and are subsidized by their university's general fund. Pitt football does not have the fanbase or even the stadium to play in a lower division. If Pitt were to play in a division between the B10/SEC Division and FCS with WVU, BC, Syr, Marshall, Liberty, etc, my guess is we'd fold the football team and move to the Big East in basketball. I would have 0 interest in watching Pitt football if it wasnt playing in the top tier. I know you say you'd rather watch Pitt play D3 football vs W&J and Waynesburg than Alabama/Georgia but I wouldn't watch either one. There's no way Pitt football could continue to play at Heinz Field in front of 5000 or 10,000 people in a lower division. Perhaps they could build a small 10,000 seat stadium somewhere on campus.

 

[NTOP]

Pitt should pull a complete boss move and use the endowment money to buy the Steelers. Already in the same facilities. The blank side of the helmet gets a script Pitt.
Then you are the only school to have multiple CFB national championships and Super Bowl championships.
Want to play professional football? Take that Ohio State!

Can't ever happen. If they tried, the Feds would declare them tax evaders and tax it all.

 

[USN_Panther]

Can't ever happen. If they tried, the Feds would declare them tax evaders and tax it all.

We can dream insane things, right?

 

[NCPitt]

The clear solution, and it's still the clear solution, was some type of employment status. With that would come the ability to collectively bargain a contract that would apply to all NCAA athletes. Such a contract could spell out exactly what players could get and what they could not. It could lay out the parameters for permissible outside endorsement opportunities. It could spell out terms for when and how players would or would not be allowed to transfer. And a whole host of other things.

But that would have stopped, or at least seriously slowed the gravy train for all these schools. And they didn't want that. They still don't. And so they are going to get sued over and over, into a piecemeal system that no one likes or wants.

And at this point, by the time they get off their asses and actually try to solve the problem it may very well be too late.

Should all students who represent Pitt be included as employees, including cheerleaders, debate team, band members, etc.?

 

[Pitt79]

Those programs do not turn a profit and are subsidized by their university's general fund. Pitt football does not have the fanbase or even the stadium to play in a lower division. If Pitt were to play in a division between the B10/SEC Division and FCS with WVU, BC, Syr, Marshall, Liberty, etc, my guess is we'd fold the football team and move to the Big East in basketball. I would have 0 interest in watching Pitt football if it wasnt playing in the top tier. I know you say you'd rather watch Pitt play D3 football vs W&J and Waynesburg than Alabama/Georgia but I wouldn't watch either one. There's no way Pitt football could continue to play at Heinz Field in front of 5000 or 10,000 people in a lower division. Perhaps they could build a small 10,000 seat stadium somewhere on campus.

Then it's all of you and your petty elitist attitudes that would kill Pitt football, how can Duquesne, RMU and CMU have football and not Pitt? I'm a Pitt fan, not a fan of seeing the best elite players with fantastical skills at the highest level, I would hope they could continue forever no matter what, Schools like Nova and Georgetown have highest level hoops and lower level football, I'd enthusiastically support Pitt continuing even at a lower level, and yeah, I'd never watch a single minute of a Bama or Michigan game, but every minute of any Pitt season at any level, I'm a fan of Pitt, not the sport's highest level.

 

[NTOP]

We can dream insane things, right?

That would be awful. Pitt is a great University, More important.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Should all students who represent Pitt be included as employees, including cheerleaders, debate team, band members, etc.?

Of course not. They dont generate revenue.

 

[pittdan77]

Of course not. They dont generate revenue.

There are lots of people that work for businesses that don't generate revenue.

 

[NTOP]

There are lots of people that work for businesses that don't generate revenue.

I think you mean excess revenue. Businesses w/o revenue don't last very long!! Except the gov't

 

[pittdan77]

I think you mean excess revenue. Businesses w/o revenue don't last very long!! Except the gov't

No. I meant there are people who work in businesses that don't directly generate revenue. They don't add any value to what you're producing but they still get paid.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No. I meant there are people who work in businesses that don't directly generate revenue. They don't add any value to what you're producing but they still get paid.

They are needed by the business or else they wouldn't be getting paid. You can argue that cheerleaders, dance team, and the band is needed for the gameday presentation. However, here's the key difference, those students would be willing to do it for free. The secretary at Exxon isnt going to agree to work for free. Theoretically, if band members across the country boycotted and there was a risk of losing "the band," then maybe then some payment could be negotiated. But I am pretty sure they are willing to do this "work" for free.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

This is my contention all along, people don't necessarily choose their favorite college football team based on being the best or highest level of play, the people who watch Pitt just because they went to school there or lived in the area aren't going to just switch to one of the teams in the super league, a lot will opt out of college football altogether, or be willing to just ignore the super league and watch just Pitt games if they keep playing at some lesser level--- that will be me.

I graduated from Gannon U as an undergrad. While I semi follow their hoops team, I have never seen a Gannon football game and if it is playing opposite say ND/USC, I am choosing the latter.

 

[pittdan77]

They are needed by the business or else they wouldn't be getting paid.

Of course not. They dont generate revenue.

"Needed" or even necessary is still very different than whether someone directly contributes to the generation of revenue. But you're suggesting that devalue the product because you don't find it necessary to compensate people who add to the gameday experience. No music during timeouts. Shut the jumbotron down. Might risk making it so people don't want to show up, though. But at least you're getting rid of needless expenses, right?

Now, move the goalpost.

 

[Upg bobcat]

They are needed by the business or else they wouldn't be getting paid. You can argue that cheerleaders, dance team, and the band is needed for the gameday presentation. However, here's the key difference, those students would be willing to do it for free. The secretary at Exxon isnt going to agree to work for free. Theoretically, if band members across the country boycotted and there was a risk of losing "the band," then maybe then some payment could be negotiated. But I am pretty sure they are willing to do this "work" for free.

There are kids willing to play college football for free. Heck, that's how it worked even at the highest level of college football for as long as the game existed up until a couple years ago. They grumbled about it being unfair, but they still did it.