All 22 players take a knee
- Thread starter Fk_Pitt
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If you really are 77 and lived in Chicago you’ve known racists. To claim otherwise is to lie or be extremely naive.
Just so we are all on the same page here, can we all recognize the fact, and it is a fact, that no one has a Constitutional right to kneel for the national anthem before a sporting event. The Constitution is all about what the government can and cannot do, and the NFL is not the government. The NFL could, if it wanted to, ban all players from taking a knee during the national anthem and that would be completely constitutional. Maybe not smart, but constitutional.
The NFL technically could ban fans from kneeling as well (not sure if that’s even been done) much like NASCAR has banned the confederate flag. As you said probably not smart, but they could if they wanted to.
It still amazes me how people toss around “free speech” who don’t have a clue that only protects from government actions.
And FTR - I don’t think Dan was suggesting the NFL has to abide because of the constitution. But because of how people conflate these issues I get why you felt the need to reset.
You might want to listen to the talk. Both acknowledge systemic racism. Do they think it exists today? You might want to watch.
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he said he hates snowflakes and in this case it’s people who have a different opinion of the American flag than he does. We can disagree, and lord knows you and I often do politically, but I’ll never understand the hate.
Yeah, it's not clear to me if he was or was not saying that. He talks about kneeling and the history of protest and then the says that it's in the constitution. I agree, the right to protest is in the constitution, but the right to kneel for the national anthem at a football game is not. Just trying to clarify that.
You do have a constitutional right to kneel. It’s covered under the first amendment. The NFL is able to prohibit it though because it’s on their time. You don’t have as many freedoms at work. Those are two different issues.
The NFL has to answer to its consumers so popular opinion will dictate how they handle it. If the league’s biggest stars decide to kneel, the NFL will have to make a decision. I’ll be shocked if the NFL tries to make an issue out of it.
Like I said, kneel after the kickoff. That’s when everyone is watching. Why kneel during the anthem when the cameras aren’t rolling?? Hmmmmm....
Because at the time it started that was going to draw much more attention to their cause. And even doing it now will do the same and draw more attention. Probably not as much than when it started but I think it’s likely it’s still more.
If you view it as a sign of hating the country that’s fine. Some, including me, don’t see it that way.
Well yea - I didn’t exactly think I was making some big revelation. But in the course of some of these discussions it started to feel like that needed to be pointed out.
They kneel during the anthem because their protest is about how America treats them. The anthem is a representation/has to do with America. Before and afterwards, everything is about the game.
He doesn’t understand
Because he’s trying to dictate how protest happen to not upset the delicate sensibilities for dudes taking a piss and grabbing a beer at home before kickoff
I lack a lot of understanding regarding the true fervor behind this all. Protest is about as American is it gets, notably starting with the Boston Tea Party before the United States even existed. People put all sorts of faces, animals, etc. on flags, store them improperly allowing them to get destroyed, sit all the time during the pledge of allegiance, etc.
Two guys consult with a green beret on what he would regard as peaceful and okay protest for the treatment of Black people in the United States, then come to the idea that taking one knee while observing the flag during the pledge of allegiance before a football game would be a small form of protest. Eventually the media gets hold of it and it becomes a big issue after the President pursues it as one on Twitter of all places.
Meanwhile, freedom of speech in America allows people to do things all the way to burning the flag, prominent figures, including the President, speak falsehoods in the open on the internet each day due to prior extensions of the definition of freedom of speech that prevent them for being sued in many cases for doing so and people openly fly flags of countries/entities that sought to topple the United States because our freedom of speech extends that far.
And through this all, Colin Kaepernick is a big issue because he took a knee when cameras generally were not rolling because he and Eric Reid were unhappy about how one of the two historically mistreated and disenfranchised groups of people in America are still being mistreated ...
I’ve been wanting to bring Reid up but never did. His play did not drop off much if at all yet he couldn’t get signed either for quite a long time. I know I mentioned depth chart justice somewhere but even that wasn’t enough for someone to sign Reid. I guess good QBs might have more leeway than good Safeties but not signing Reid was most definitely not about production drop off.
Reid actually played the entire way through until now. Even signed another big contract or two. I think he is unsigned now, but he never had a break in play like Kaepernick. I think the NFL has settled with both him and Kaepernick for undisclosed terms.
EDIT: You are right that one year he did sign a few games in. Sorry for the confusion/omission. But, he never missed a season was my point.
Well in full disclosure I thought he missed more that that. But for a player as good as he was he should have been in demand. And I may be mistaken again but I don’t believe there were a whole lot of teams even interested.
I think that a big part of why Reid kept playing was that he was such a valued commodity. It is not like Kaepernick, where there was some question as to fit, etc. Reid is in that line of incredible LSU safeties that seemingly will never stop.
I was curious so I googled it. He was signed after the Panther’s starting safety got hurt. And even then it was a one year deal only (relatively speaking of course) worth 1.9 mil. As you said he did get his big contract eventually but they got him on the cheap at first with very little commitment. Which I think speaks volumes.
I lived in Hanover Park, IL and worked for the IRS in downtown Chi. I knew some tough ass people who didn't like anyone.
Some people look for racists even if there aren't any.
And if you tell some people it’s raining while you piss on their leg they’ll believe it’s rain.
We were told the flag and the anthem, which are the symbol of this country, had nothing to do with the protest. But thanks for pointing out what others wouldn’t.
Black oppression is a worldwide problem. And while this country had major flaws and still has its warts, singling out this country, when it’s ahead of 194 others, is misguided and offensive.
Respectfully, I see this tactic used in relation to both issues of race and gender and I find it an dubious attempt to denounce protest or attempts for change. Are issues of race (or gender) better in the US than other countries? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean individuals who live in the US shouldn't speak up or protest just because it's worse somewhere else. If that was the only bar that needed to be cleared we'd never see any progress ever.
Oh please. You can certainly my make the point that it’s better here than other places. But we live here. The players live here. This is where we can do something about it. And something does need to be done about it. And to some extent who we vote for can have an impact in other countries. With the protests and kneeling becoming world wide maybe more would be done about it in other places. And I hope this will lead to real changes all over the world. But to suggest it’s misguided and offensive - that’s ridiculous.
It’s not ridiculous when you consider that it offended a large part of the population, which is more than just a % of racist clowns that will be offended by any form of protest. Disagree if you may, but you can’t expect good people to feel the same way about something as you do.
And here we are spending all this time talking about the form of protest, instead of what was being protested.
To swing back to the advent of this thread, what the PL players are doing, with 22 starting players, benches, coaches and officials ALL taking a knee, with Black Lives Matter in place of their names, and a patch on the front of the jersey, is better than anything involving the flag and anthem.
If people are offended because of the kneeling during the anthem - cool. Whatever, don’t care. Won’t give anyone any pushback there. I just don’t think it’s misguided and offensive just because we’re ahead of 194 others. If I misunderstood something then I’ll stand corrected. But we need to do better no matter where we stand. What we do here can have worldwide impact directly or indirectly. Although if Trump green lights camps to other world leaders like he did with Xi and the Uighurs maybe we won’t be for much longer.
My service was earlier than yours, but I think getting shot at in Vietnam gives me the right to say I not only believe athletes and others have the right to take a knee, I support them doing so.
If there is one person who should keep his mouth shut on this issue, it is the 5-time draft dodger who says he won’t watch any games if players take a knee. But, he has a right to express his opinion even if he would love to be able to stifle all who disagree with him.
With respect to soccer, I don’t believe that they play a national anthem before any games in any of the biggest leagues. So, the kickoff is the first opportunity the players really have to make a statement.
Right. Players kneeling during the national anthem at a sporting event is not covered by the Constitution. That's what I said.
You are so full of it. You are telling me none of those people ever said they were against desegregation? So are you going to try and tell me that the entire civil rights movement in the 59s and 60s was useless because there were no racist people?
You’re trying to twist words. It’s protected speech regardless. The NFL can’t have a player prosecuted for kneeling.
I don’t really understand your point. You seem to be obsessed with determining when someone protests and how.
I am.
And my one opinion is shared by millions. His protest is divisive. This is not a time to divide, it’s a time to unite. For those who protest in that way, it’s like the motivation is skewed. Do they want to turn people off, or do they want to unite and bring positive change? That’s all. I’ll just leave it at that. I’ve been hoping to check out of this conversation. I’ve said enough but I keep getting pulled back in.
I am.
And my one opinion is shared by millions. His protest is divisive. This is not a time to divide, it’s a time to unite. For those who protest in that way, it’s like the motivation is skewed. Do they want to turn people off, or do they want to unite and bring positive change? That’s all. I’ll just leave it at that. I’ve been hoping to check out of this conversation. I’ve said enough but I keep getting pulled back in.
I really don’t think you understand the concept of protest. In case you haven’t noticed, the movement hasn’t changed and more and more people are finding solidarity with the original protest.
It took a heinous act by a POS cop for people to come around and see the problem for what is is. In case you didn’t notice, his protest did nothing for the movement the past few years. Nothing. But, everyone surely had an opinion on the flag/anthem.
People made a point to fly the confederate flag yesterday outside the racetrack. And inside someone put a noose in Bubba Wallace’s garage. So yes it’s just TERRIBLE for anyone to protest. Just awful I tell ya.
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