Art Rooney II is the new Bob Nutting??
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Of guys who have coached at least ten seasons John Madden is the all time leader in winning percentage. He's a little bit ahead of some guy named Lombardi. If you include people who didn't coach that many years he falls all the way to second, behind some guy named Guy Chamberlain, who coached so long ago that he spent two of his six years as a head coach with the Canton Bulldogs, and two more of them with the Frankford Yellow Jackets. And he's in the Hall of Fame too.
If you aren't going to put the coach with essentially the best winning percentage in the history of the game in the Hall of Fame, just who are you going to put in there? Bill Belichick is one of the greatest coaches of all time. If his teams go undefeated for the next TEN years his winning percentage still wouldn't be as high as Madden's.
Now do playoff seasons (which matter more), Playoff record (which matters more), division titles, and head to head vs each other in the super bowl.
To rate one higher than the other reeks of agenda and/or ignorance.
Madden had a small sample size. Kind of like Tomlin before the 12 year dry spell.
I have said this before. And it would never happen nor should it. But you want to talk about someone who would kill it as a college coach? Mike Tomlin. Man, imagine him recruiting? He could walk into any recruits house ahead of Nick Saban except maybe in Alabama. He would be able to motivate and the best part? No kid would need to stay more than 5 years so the message wouldn't get stale or lost.
Madden was a head coach for the exact same number of years that Lombardi was a head coach. He coached six more games and had seven more wins (and one more tie). Are you suggesting that the Hall of Fame lowered their standards when they inducted Lombardi in the HOF?
I’m not suggesting that. Lombardi was before my time so I didn’t check. I have suggested that they should take his name off the trophy though.
Well if you want to be consistent you should be.
I mean everyone would recognize how ridiculous that would be, so I get why you aren't. But if Vince Lombardi is in the HOF then there really isn't any reason that John Madden shouldn't be.
If you want to make the thread about John Madden and Vince Lombardi then have at it. My point is was that if certain guys are in, then Tomlin certainly belongs. Cowher is there, therefore Tomlin should be there. And if Tomlin should be there, then Mike McCarthy should be there. It’s become a Hall of the very good, instead of a Hall of Fame.
Lynch won the starting job early in the 1995 and had 3 INTs in his first two games, he remained the starter the rest of the year but missed 4-5 games with an injury. There was no question who was the expected starter for 1995.
The 220lb tweener rookie was strong side? They had Lonnie Marts at Strong in 1994 and he started alongside Brooks in 1995. They switched their Strong Side Free Agent to weak side to start their 1st round draft pick that weighed 25-30lbs less? I watched about 15 minutes of 1995 Bucs defense that I could find on Youtube and #55 is lined up on the weak side on every play that I could identify his number.
When Dungy got inducted in the HOF there was an interview from Brooks saying that Tony came in switched his position around from the SAM to the WILL.
From a terminology standpoint and scheme standpoint Brooks played to the passing strength in Kiffin's system. In Kiffin's system the WLB technically lines up on strong side when they're in the over front. In the Under front the WILL travels with the 3 tech like he does in the over.
I watched the 1995 film I saw vs the Packers, Brooks is lining up primarily to the weakside of the formation except when they see TE/WING. The Bucs slid into the Bear 46 front vs that and Brooks is on the LOS double shading. When they're in a over front, Brooks is the bubble guy. What he was probably eluding to was that the WLB in that situation is best suited to be a big bullish guy because he's going to see a 255lb fullback iso'ing him. In Kiffin's system he's primarily covered up. This allows him to be a "runner" or what I like to call an "eraser."
In terms of Lynch - he was a nobody prior Dungy. If you think Dungy didn't develop him, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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I think some vets in year's past have eluded to that he did "lose" the team even when they had winning seasons where they underachieved. James Harrison said there were discipline issues and favorites were played. He said that didn't exist in NE.
After week 8 this is who they beat
Saints (7-10)
Colts (4-12)
Atlanta (7-10)
Carolina (7-10)
Raiders (6-11)
Bmore (10-7) w/out Jackson
Cleveland (7-10)
I think people forget what it takes to win the NFL.
Tomlin has the 3rd best winning % in the league among coaches around more than 3 or 4 years. Let’s look at the ones above him:
Ole BB is way under .500 and no playoff wins in a decade of ball without Brady. Read that again because I don’t think it has resonated the 3 times I’ve said it previously. He had the greatest QB ever the rest of the time. Otherwise - kinda sucked.
Andy Reid finally caught Tomlin in win % and slipped ahead. But it took 5 years of the eventual best QB ever.
Right behind MT is Yinzer lord and savior Jawn Harbaughs - only won one playoff game in 7 years and he has had an MVP. If Tomlin retired and Harbaugh coached another year, he would have to be a perfect season to catch MT in win %.
Pete Carrol? Tomlin could win his next game in October 2024 and still have a better record.
So not sure who yinz would be sliding in that would have won more. They have blown in a few of these playoff games - no doubt. But the one and done nature means that years can pass.
The Cowboys went 25 years with like 3 playoff wins. The Bengals 30 with none. The Bills 20+ with none.
It’s fair to desire more playoff wins. Fair to put pressure on the head coach to deliver that. Assuming they would have happened without MT is just incorrect.
Tomlin has the 3rd best winning % in the league among coaches around more than 3 or 4 years. Let’s look at the ones above him:
Ole BB is way under .500 and no playoff wins in a decade of ball without Brady. Read that again because I don’t think it has resonated the 3 times I’ve said it previously. He had the greatest QB ever the rest of the time. Otherwise - kinda sucked.
Andy Reid finally caught Tomlin in win % and slipped ahead. But it took 5 years of the eventual best QB ever.
Right behind MT is Yinzer lord and savior Jawn Harbaughs - only won one playoff game in 7 years and he has had an MVP. If Tomlin retired and Harbaugh coached another year, he would have to be a perfect season to catch MT in win %.
Pete Carrol? Tomlin could win his next game in October 2024 and still have a better record.
So not sure who yinz would be sliding in that would have won more. They have blown in a few of these playoff games - no doubt. But the one and done nature means that years can pass.
The Cowboys went 25 years with like 3 playoff wins. The Bengals 30 with none. The Bills 20+ with none.
It’s fair to desire more playoff wins. Fair to put pressure on the head coach to deliver that. Assuming they would have happened without MT is just incorrect.
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Reid is on a different level, IMO. In 24 years, he has 3 losing seasons. Since joining the Chiefs, he has had a winning record every season (10 years), including 8 straight 10+ win seasons. He's made the playoffs 18 of 24 years, won a playoff game in 12 of 24 years, and advance to the NFC Championship game 5 times and the AFC Championship game 4 times. On top of this, his offenses finished in the top 10 in points 20 seasons and 11 of his assistants went on to a head coach job. Probably the best coach in the league.
Weeb Eubank. He has the achievements to be in the hall, he won 3 Championships, Colts in '58 and '59 NFL Championships (Pre Superbowl/AFL), and Jets, Superbowl III ....19 1/2 point dogs....
Another level? He won his first Super Bowl in his 21st season. From 2009 to 2018, seasons 11-20, he won two playoff games. Until 2019 he was Chuck Knox. Or Marty Schottenheimer. Or Jeff Fisher. Those three were the only other coaches in NFL history to not win a Super Bowl in twenty seasons as a head coach.
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All the wins matter
Buddy you somehow think having the winningest nfl coach in the hof lowers the bar
Sit out a few rounds - sports talk radio broke your brain
I rank one bigger because he’s won more games more consistently
Arguing otherwise is a function of agenda , chief
You don't think Reid is on a different level from guys like Tomlin, Harbaugh, Carroll, etc.? I absolutely think he's a better coach.
He’s a good offensive coach
Having Mahomes helps a lot
But he only has 1 ring because the team requires more than just offense to win
And more than just defense and running out the clock. I think both Cowher and Tomlin may have won more than one Super Bowl each if they could ever see the value in better, higher scoring offense.
5 NFC title games and couldn’t win a championship.
His different level came with #15 playing QB.
Again…another fantastic coach with a great…but flawed resume where an elite player can give it a significant boost.
I actually read all that and it’s an interesting read.
But here is the difference. It’s not like a small business where he has to run the day to day business. They still went through a painstaking process to hire a GM. They still have one of the best coaches in the league. If MT retires, they will find another good one. It’s still the Steelers where the history is always palpable.
The only flaw in the current model is not pushing to get better assistants (although the Flores hire bucked that trend). And honestly that was the point of this thread, right? That has to be better.
Lol. I can’t stop laughing at your mental gymnastics, Mary Lou.
With every post, you prove my point more and more.
1st and foremost, I hate many aspects of this thread because I think he’s proven he’s a good coach and personally I love Tomlin and think he’s a great man, a great Christian, father and leader of men. But at this point, I can’t use that superlative to describe him as a coach because the career has not been great to this point. It simply hasn’t. You know how I know it hasn’t? Because it’s the same exact career as Mike McCarthy, yet you and others can’t bring yourself to say McCarthy is a great coach and that’s either intentionally or unintentionally disingenuous.
You have fallen victim of being influenced by personal agenda, or talk show propaganda (which is your thing) by using “non losing” season, which is a manufactured talking point, as some kind of thing.
Tomlin has won 10.7 games per season and McCarthy has won 10.4 games per season.
McCarthy has won more in the playoffs. And McCarthy beat Tomlin in the Super Bowl. Oh how different things would be if Tomlin had won that game. But McCarthy has eternal scoreboard.
But the differences are not significant. Their careers are essentially the same. Whatever superlative that is used for one should be used for the other.
I said this in another thread. Tomlin made the decision to draft Kenny, and he made the decision to scrap this season and insert Kenny as starter. The rest of his coaching career may hinge on these decisions and potentially who he turns the offensive coaching reigns over to. My hope is these decisions propel the franchise to playoff wins, AFC championship games and a Super Bowl title.
This linking a HOF coach to having a HOF QB...well yeah. Duh. It is fairly correlative, which does say something positive about Cowher, because he only had one for 3 years, and that was his first 3 years.
I do see some who think criticizing Mikey T is wrong, they dance around the accusation, but it is underlying in their comments.
I do see some who think criticizing Mikey T is wrong, they dance around the accusation, but it is underlying in their comments.
I was ready to scoff the McCarthy reference due to his preposterous decision to not only bring in but actually play Da Nooch. But then I remembered Duck Hodges…
Both coaches are just Ok. Seem to mostly underachieve with talent they have. Nothing dynamic or innovative with either. Program managers. Teams will go between .500 to .750 or so on average, which seems to mollify the masses. I couldn’t care less about either one as Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or Nudists (ugh). Just win championships. All that freaking matters is championships.
Fair. Very fair. I only say that because I have no bias when it comes to Tomlin because I really like the guy. I’m just objective when it comes to his coaching resume, and use McCarthy as a way of proving others are not objective.
Cliff notes ?
I agreed he and Cowher are similar in resume
And both are hall of famers
No gymnastics needed
Tomlin is a better coach than McCartney
It’s why Mike M. was unemployed for a season
McCartney was a great song writer.
McCarthy was unemployed because he didn’t work for the Steelers. He got fired at GB and wasn’t given a chance to win more games that season. The Steelers would have given him the opportunity to stay gainfully employed.
And hence, McCarthy has gone to a franchise that hasn’t done squat in decades and turned them around.
Modern Day HOF Coaches with HOF QB's -
Tom Landry - Roger Staubach
Jimmy Johnson - Troy Aikman/Dan Marino
Chuck Noll - Terry Bradshaw
Bill Walsh - Joe Montana/Steve Young
Weeb Ewbank - Johnny Unitas/Joe Namath
Marv Leavy - Jim Kelly
Bill Belichick - Tom Brady
Ton Dungy - Peyton Manning
Paul Brown - Otto Graham
Bud Grant - Fran Tarkenton
Don Shula - Johnny Unitas and Dan Marino
Hank Stram - Lenny Dawson
______
Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs never had a HOF QB.
Really impressive to see what Cowher did without a HOF QB until his last 3 seasons and that HOF QB was raw and inexperienced when he stepped into the league. Only 3 years at QB in college, only 1 in HS.
Really furthers the distance between Cowher and Tomlin.
That is a HOF post right there. Well done.
And I’ll add this. Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, and Mike McCarthy are the same coach statistically. All three only won 1 title while having a HOF QB for a long period of time. Of the 3, only Tomlin is considered a HOF coach. Weird.
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