Big XII vs ACC perception

[pittdan77]

Greg Flugaur is a B1G guy, a Minnesota Golden Gopher in fact. He has been on top of realignment and expansion for years. He has a youtube channel with around 5k subscribers. He is hard to listen to and it takes forever for him to get to the point but if you want to take a look at the self professed fat guy from Minnesota here is today's link
PATC
His broadcast today is based on John Kurtz interview of Ross Dellenger that link is here
Ross Dellenger

Let me fix it for you...

He's a Minnesota fan that loves to start every kind of rumor that he can think of and then claims he's been correct about everything. The other night he posted an "emergency" podcast to discuss the possibility of FSU and Clemson going to the Big12 because he knows how to get clicks. It's a clickbait scam that is keeping him fat, happy, and weirdly famous.

 

[pittchagg]

So we are the tallest midget! Yeah!

I don't think demographics matter much. There are some exceptions but what matters are name brands and some schools have worked hard to cultivate that over a period of decades. Pitt has not. In fact, I'd argue they did the opposite with the constant meddling. We doomed ourselves. The end.

Sure, but that’s not really my point. Pitt isn’t getting an invite to the Big Ten or the SEC. I just don’t think that’s a realistic option, so you’re looking at one of the other leagues either way. Of the realistic options, I’d much rather stay in the conference that at least is comprised with Pitt’s cultural, institutional, and athletic peers - and is located in the geographic footprint where the overwhelming majority of Pitt alumni live. Pitt isn’t a Big 12 school. Nothing about Pitt would indicate that it’s a Big 12 school. It’s a total misfit from every single perspective.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Sure, but that’s not really my point. Pitt isn’t getting an invite to the Big Ten or the SEC. I just don’t think that’s a realistic option, so you’re looking at one of the other leagues either way. Of the realistic options, I’d much rather stay in the conference that at least is comprised with Pitt’s cultural, institutional, and athletic peers - and is located in the geographic footprint where the overwhelming majority of Pitt alumni live. Pitt isn’t a Big 12 school. Nothing about Pitt would indicate that it’s a Big 12 school. It’s a total misfit from every single perspective.

smu, stanford and cal are now in the ACC. the "i'd rather be in a conference comprised with similar cultural, institutional and athletic peers" mindset is gone...

i get it, it was once a valid point. but the cluster F that is college athletics made that all a moot or outdated point.

 

[pittchagg]

smu, stanford and cal are now in the ACC. the "i'd rather be in a conference comprised with similar cultural, institutional and athletic peers" mindset is gone...

i get it, it was once a valid point. but the cluster F that is college athletics made that all a moot or outdated point.

You’re probably not gonna like this, but I think Cal is as close to a sister school as Pitt has had since it joined the ACC from an institutional and athletic perspective. Hell, Memorial Stadium in Berkeley is just Pitt Stadium that they renovated instead of knocking down. It’s why they’re the school I might be most excited about.

Geography aside, Cal and Stanford “feel” like ACC schools. They approach their athletic departments the way that a whole bunch of ACC schools approach their athletic departments. It doesn’t feel weird to see Cal/UNC, or Stanford/Virginia. Or even SMU/Miami or SMU/Wake. It doesn’t feel weird. Pitt/Kansas State feels weird. Pitt/Texas Tech feels weird.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You’re probably not gonna like this, but I think Cal is as close to a sister school as Pitt has had since it joined the ACC from an institutional and athletic perspective. Hell, Memorial Stadium in Berkeley is just Pitt Stadium that they renovated instead of knocking down. It’s why they’re the school I might be most excited about.

Geography aside, Cal and Stanford “feel” like ACC schools. They approach their athletic departments the way that a whole bunch of ACC schools approach their athletic departments. It doesn’t feel weird to see Cal/UNC, or Stanford/Virginia. Or even SMU/Miami or SMU/Wake. It doesn’t feel weird. Pitt/Kansas State feels weird. Pitt/Texas Tech feels weird.

Yea I dont get that statement. Cal and Stanford are much more similar to Pitt in many ways than WVU, Kansas, or Texas Tech.

I agree that Pitt/Kansas State and Pitt/TT feels weird. Pitt/Cal doesn't for me. Pitt/SMU really doesn't either because they are both 80s powerhouses.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Sure, but that’s not really my point. Pitt isn’t getting an invite to the Big Ten or the SEC. I just don’t think that’s a realistic option, so you’re looking at one of the other leagues either way. Of the realistic options, I’d much rather stay in the conference that at least is comprised with Pitt’s cultural, institutional, and athletic peers - and is located in the geographic footprint where the overwhelming majority of Pitt alumni live. Pitt isn’t a Big 12 school. Nothing about Pitt would indicate that it’s a Big 12 school. It’s a total misfit from every single perspective.

In that case I think you must take into account the stability of the conference and what teams are actually staying. I don't foresee any Big 12 teams leaving, but I can easily see Clemson, Florida State, NC, Miami and possibly VT and NC State bolting if an offer comes. In fact, it's likely in some of those cases.

 

[Chem95]

In that case I think you must take into account the stability of the conference and what teams are actually staying. I don't foresee any Big 12 teams leaving, but I can easily see Clemson, Florida State, NC, Miami and possibly VT and NC State bolting if an offer comes. In fact, it's likely in some of those cases.

Bolting? Like a head of broccoli?

Any school will accept an invite to the BIG/SEC. Just because they would doesn't mean they are wanted.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

In that case I think you must take into account the stability of the conference and what teams are actually staying. I don't foresee any Big 12 teams leaving, but I can easily see Clemson, Florida State, NC, Miami and possibly VT and NC State bolting if an offer comes. In fact, it's likely in some of those cases.

If Jim Phillips is worth anything, you convince Utah, Colorado and 1 or both Arizonas to join Cal/Stanford. Even allow them to choose who to come with them? Do they want Oregon State, San Diego State, etc? Fine. They can come. You cut out the grossness in the middle (Iowa St, Kansas's, etc).

Maybe you can even have a "Pac 10" Division

Oregon St
Cal
Stanford
SDSU
Arizona
Arizona St
Colorado
Utah
SMU

Other Division
Pitt
BC
Syr
Lou
VT
NC St
Wake
Duke
1-2 more (WVU?, UCF?)

 

[HailtoPitt]

Bolting? Like a head of broccoli?

Any school will accept an invite to the BIG/SEC. Just because they would doesn't mean they are wanted.

Yes, except instead of them being bitter, it will be the leftovers!

 

[HailtoPitt]

If Jim Phillips is worth anything, you convince Utah, Colorado and 1 or both Arizonas to join Cal/Stanford. Even allow them to choose who to come with them? Do they want Oregon State, San Diego State, etc? Fine. They can come. You cut out the grossness in the middle (Iowa St, Kansas's, etc).

Maybe you can even have a "Pac 10" Division

Oregon St
Cal
Stanford
SDSU
Arizona
Arizona St
Colorado
Utah
SMU

Other Division
Pitt
BC
Syr
Lou
VT
NC St
Wake
Duke
1-2 more (WVU?, UCF?)

At this point it's just rearranging the deck chairs. They needed to get Oregon and Washington before the BIG grabbed them. Remember, USC and UCLA didn't want them to follow, so there was a window, and while we aren't privy to all of the goings on, I suspect the ACC just didn't act quickly enough. Possible because Florida State wouldn't allow it. Bringing in Washington, Oregon and Cal and Stanford would have been a decent addition.

 

[ThePanthers]

Ross dellinger said today there are early conversations between fsu/clemson going to the big xii

 

[Manster]

If Jim Phillips is worth anything, you convince Utah, Colorado and 1 or both Arizonas to join Cal/Stanford. Even allow them to choose who to come with them? Do they want Oregon State, San Diego State, etc? Fine. They can come. You cut out the grossness in the middle (Iowa St, Kansas's, etc).

Maybe you can even have a "Pac 10" Division

Oregon St
Cal
Stanford
SDSU
Arizona
Arizona St
Colorado
Utah
SMU

Other Division
Pitt
BC
Syr
Lou
VT
NC St
Wake
Duke
1-2 more (WVU?, UCF?)

Once again, you're delusional. NOBODY is joining the ACC....not now and certainly not after you lose the only bell-cows in the conference.

 

[Manster]

I take it back...most G5's and maybe Oregon State and Washington St would join the ACC. Good luck with that.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I take it back...most G5's and maybe Oregon State and Washington St would join the ACC. Good luck with that.

oh great, more wvu fans on a pitt message board, reminding us daily that they dont think about pitt and we dont matter to them.

you know, just in case we forget, they come on here to remind us this.

 

[pittdan77]

New rumor: Miami and Louisville to the Big12.

 

[Chem95]

New rumor: Miami and Louisville to the Big12.

There is one that adds Notre Dame going as well.

Yormark must have some kick-ass weed at the Big 12 media days.....

 

[Manster]

oh great, more wvu fans on a pitt message board, reminding us daily that they dont think about pitt and we dont matter to them.

you know, just in case we forget, they come on here to remind us this.

Don't flatter yourself. Only here on rare occasions (as well as other ACC schools) to see what others think of the rumors swirling around.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Don't flatter yourself. Only here on rare occasions (as well as other ACC schools) to see what others think of the rumors swirling around.

he's only here on rare occasions, says the guy with over 200 posts on a pitt message board..

these rumors have been swirling around for years, started by big 12 fanboys. they never pan out and are never called out on them either. this one will be debunked too and instead of admitting that they were wrong, they'll just come up with a new rumor in a few months

 

[PittMan 72]

I always get a chuckle from these frequent posts from you for the last like 7 years, chicken lit. You're a great Pitt man, but you get in such a tizzy over this stuff.

Yep. It’s the same as it has been. Any ACC member can leave anytime they want per the terns of the GOR. They just have to pay the exit fee and forfeit all of their media rights to the ACC like they agreed to, until 2036.

After that happens, then Yormark can invite them to the Big XII and add them when they accept his invitation. Pretty simple! 🤷‍♂️

 

[PITT 76]

I don't wish any conference harm. It was terrible what the B10 did to the PAC, but it is what it is.

The B10 and SEC are very stable simply because they've become the biggest money earners.

The ACC and B12 are still power conferences but have lost some prestige.

However, insinuating that the B12 is a more desirable landing place than the ACC is truly faulty logic. The B12 got lucky landing the 4 PAC schools, allowing them to maintain a semblance of competitive relevance. Make no mistake though: the loss of Oklahoma and Texas seriously depletes the attractiveness of the B12.

I can't imagine why Florida State or Clemson would consider the B12. The ACC is just a much better conference.

Look at it as a Pitt fan. Would Pitt rather be in the B12 or the ACC. I don't think it's even close. The ACC is the better choice on all levels: monetarily, academically, and athletically.

The B12 blog posters have long had a reputation for circulating rumors about the inevitable demise of the ACC. Delusional is actually an understatement of their mind-sets.

While discontents like FL ST will continue to worry, the rest of us should relax when contemplating the B12 decimating the ACC. It simply won't happen.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Ross dellinger said today there are early conversations between fsu/clemson going to the big xii

Lol

 

[pittdan77]

Yormark must have some kick-ass weed at the Big 12 media days.....

It probably hasn't occurred to many Big12 fans that maybe the B1G is floating rumors around to devalue the schools they want to poach. Count of their desperation and cut their share. It's already worked for them. The Big12 is eager to play into that stuff and has likely opened third party channels because, why not?

Look, if FSU, Clemson, and ND want to join the Big12, I'm fine with that. It would be hilarious after all of this but especially if they demand a lopsided revenue distribution deal that smells like what Texas and OU had and get it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It probably hasn't occurred to many Big12 fans that maybe the B1G is floating rumors around to devalue the schools they want to poach. Count of their desperation and cut their share. It's already worked for them. The Big12 is eager to play into that stuff and has likely opened third party channels because, why not?

Look, if FSU, Clemson, and ND want to join the Big12, I'm fine with that. It would be hilarious after all of this but especially if they demand a lopsided revenue distribution deal that smells like what Texas and OU had and get it.

They arent joining the Big 12. They are trying to create as much leverage to get the best possible buyout deal from the ACC. At this point, I wished the small-time teams like Pitt, Lou, Syr, Wake, etc would just give them the money they need until 2036 in the hopes there is another landscape shift but at least you are alive for it. Normally, I'd say screw FSU but not anymore. Give them and Clemson SEC money and maybe UNC. The money is largely insignificant anyway. Lets say Pitt gets $8 million less in revenue. Who cares? That $8 million isnt winning any football or basketball games.

 

[cashisking884]

They arent joining the Big 12. They are trying to create as much leverage to get the best possible buyout deal from the ACC. At this point, I wished the small-time teams like Pitt, Lou, Syr, Wake, etc would just give them the money they need until 2036 in the hopes there is another landscape shift but at least you are alive for it. Normally, I'd say screw FSU but not anymore. Give them and Clemson SEC money and maybe UNC. The money is largely insignificant anyway. Lets say Pitt gets $8 million less in revenue. Who cares? That $8 million isnt winning any football or basketball games.

This is what I have long advocated.
The ACC should give FSU and Clemson whatever it wants. So it can at least survive to see tomorrow. Then lets see what tomorrow brings?

SMU essentially did that on a micro level to get into the ACC. And nobody on the board is saying how stupid SMU is?
So why would it not make sense at a macro level?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This is what I have long advocated.
The ACC should give FSU and Clemson whatever it wants. So it can at least survive to see tomorrow. Then lets see what tomorrow brings?

SMU essentially did that on a micro level to get into the ACC. And nobody on the board is saying how stupid SMU is?
So why would it not make sense at a macro level?

SMU did what was required. Sacrifice now for the longer-term. Schools like Pitt need to be alive tomorrow. On the one hand you can say, screw FSU, we'll go to the B12 in a worst-case scenario but that isnt a desirable option for me. I'd ask what does FSU and Clemson need to stay until 2036 and give it to them. Then, come 2036, you are in a better position to start picking off teams from the Allstate 12. And please for the love of God, dont use the number 12 if you sell the title of the league to Allstate. There's 16 teams in your league, not 12. Just call it the Allstate League and be done.

 

[pittdan77]

Schools like Pitt need to be alive tomorrow.

This isn't a zero sum. Pitt can drop football become Creighton in a heartbeat if it doesn't want to join the constant one-upmanship of football. At this point, that sounds better than playing uninteresting football games in the Big12.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This isn't a zero sum. Pitt can drop football become Creighton in a heartbeat if it doesn't want to join the constant one-upmanship of football. At this point, that sounds better than playing uninteresting football games in the Big12.

I wouldn't go the Creighton model. I'd do the UConn model and join the Big East for hoops. The last choice is to be in a leauge with junior colleges from the boonies.

 

[pittchagg]

I wouldn't go the Creighton model. I'd do the UConn model and join the Big East for hoops. The last choice is to be in a leauge with junior colleges from the boonies.

I would also rather rejoin the Big East for basketball/olympics and figure out football versus joining the Big 12.

 

[NKSplitter]

Was this the guy who predicted Texas to the B10 and LHN would be BTN2?

Why cant the ACC have an expansionista? We gave it a try with the Utah rumor but we need to keep those coming.

You know, if you have Internet access and something that can record video the cost of starting a YouTube channel is nothing. The SMF Network needs to start somewhere.

 

[Houclone4]

FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame are not joining the Big 12.

 

[Houclone4]

Geography aside, Cal and Stanford “feel” like ACC schools. They approach their athletic departments the way that a whole bunch of ACC schools approach their athletic departments.

Get back to me when Pitt plays at Stanford and Cal with a 50% filled stadium.

 

[pittchagg]

Get back to me when Pitt plays at Stanford and Cal with a 50% filled stadium.

Won’t be this year, but I’m looking forward to it. Hoping to make the trip in 2025! Cal, in particular, feels a whole lot like a version of old Pitt Stadium. Tightwad Hill, Top Dog, the Bay Area - sounds like a great time!

 

[Houclone4]

Won’t be this year, but I’m looking forward to it. Hoping to make the trip in 2025! Cal, in particular, feels a whole lot like a version of old Pitt Stadium. Tightwad Hill, Top Dog, the Bay Area - sounds like a great time!

I recommend buying a high up, end zone seat. Save a buck. Shouldn't be a problem moving to the 50 yard line, 10 rows up after kickoff.

 

[MJG-90]

I’m of the opinion that the ACC is in a better spot than the Big 12, largely because of the above-referenced demographic factors

Isn’t this also what’s making the ACC more vulnerable? The B1G has wanted to expand into the southeast for a long time.

 

[pittchagg]

I recommend buying a high up, end zone seat. Save a buck. Shouldn't be a problem moving to the 50 yard line, 10 rows up after kickoff.

The seats on Tightwad Hill are free! Even better!

 

[Houclone4]

The seats on Tightwad Hill are free! Even better!

Touche, well played.

 

[USN_Panther]

The B12 is stable only because their inventory of good programs has already been picked through.

 

[pittdan77]

LOL, see how this works?

 

[Houclone4]

The B12 is stable only because their inventory of good programs has already been picked through.

Correct. Any conference with a brand that is not in the P2 will be unstable. That was the Pac after USC and the Big 12. Now they are stable or gone. Next on the docket is the ACC. The ACC will be stable after NC, FSU, Clemson, and Miami leave. Sucks for college athletics but that is how it has become.

15 years from now, the Big 10 and SEC will be unstable but in a different way. Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Vandy, Missouri, Miss State, and maybe others may be pushed aside for a super conference.

 

[Houclone4]

Let's say FSU, Clemson to the SEC and NC and Virginia to the Big 10. How would the perception or reaction of such schools be if NC State, Duke, Miami, VT, Louisville, and Pitt invite the entire Big 12, still called the ACC, Jim Phillips as the commissioner, and conference headquarters in North Carolina? The alternative would be the Big 12 does the invite, but in this situation, the Big 12 allows the best ACC schools to call the shots - but has to invite the entire Big 12.