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Florida Game & Other Dribbles ...

DT_PITT

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Jul 17, 2001
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** Despite our exciting start, deep down we all knew our trip to Brooklyn was going to begin to tell the tale of how real it really was. Unfortunately, this first lesson was not a good one.

** Like most, I was hoping for the Panthers to make a statement. But what the game told us is there’s work to be done.

** I think the reality for this game is that it probably felt a little worse than it actually was, mostly because our expectations may have been a bit too high.

** Although Florida was clearly the better team, I do believe on a better shooting night we could have been right there with them. I’m also of the belief that this is pretty darn good Florida team. Finally, you could also make the case that we played with them for all but two deadly stretches, one in each half.

** Annoying as he may have been, Walter Clayton seems like a really legit talent to me. And Tyrese Samuel is no slouch either.

** But this isn’t to say we don’t have issues. Most notably, our post defense was simply atrocious. Fede was not good and GDiaz was worse actually. It’s been several games now where they haven’t responded well to physical bigs posting them up on the blocks.

** Over the past two years, both have used their athleticism well to hedge and recover. But without a double team, Florida was almost certain to score. I think we saw much of the same from that other Florida team we played a few days ago.

** And when we double in the post, it tends to leave guys like Clayton open to fire away. 86 points later, this all added up to our Panthers first loss.

** What bothered me most about our defense was later in the second half when we seemed to settle down offensively, we seemed almost completely powerless to string together stops to make any kind of run.

** But what made our Panthers so exciting in our first four contests was our free flowing, some times effortless offense. Tonight, there were plenty of times when points weren’t coming so easily.

** To my eye the biggest problem with the Panther offense this night was we allowed ourselves to be almost completely a jump shooting team. I will generally exclude Ish from this comment as was attacking the rim with regularity.

** Most everyone else, notably Bub and Blake, were settling for jump shots on a night when they weren’t hitting at a high rate.

** Allow me to note that 17 assists on 24 baskets is not a bad number. But most of these assists were passes on the perimeter for jumpers.

** The number that really should matter is zero. Not just zero points for Fede. He didn’t even get a shot. And GDiaz didn’t score inside either.

** Capel’s offense works best when it’s opening things up inside and out. That wasn’t the case this night.

** What we do know is the Capel wants his players to shoot very confidently. His challenge this year will be what to do when they are shooting a bit too confidently. I don’t think it will ever be a good idea to try to reel them in per se.

** Unfortunately for Jeff, he didn’t have too many options to turn to against the Gators. This might have been a game where later in the year, perhaps Jaland will be a better choice off the bench. But not yet.

** I’d also like to think that there is more we can get out of Zach Austin. This isn’t to say that his 10 and 9 point effort should be viewed as a poor night. And he works very hard on both ends of court. But he might be a key to getting some post points. He’s got to start hitting some threes as well. He wasn’t even close on his three tries tonight.

** Beyond that, I don’t know there’s much more that can be added consistently to the offensive end. This is a much bigger issue if we don’t make progress defensively and will need to score well over 80 to win many of our games against tougher foes.

** I don’t know if Oregon State qualifies as a tougher foe. But we need a win on Friday. This season was never going to be an easy run to the Final Four, even if we had made a statement with a win against the Gators.

** But our guys need to show themselves that they can win in a place like Brooklyn doing what they do.

** Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow Pitt Hoops fans.
 
first in .
GO DT
happy thanksgiving to this guy .
i lost all faith in any big game win.
 
- I don't know why ANYONE would help off a shooter. When I finally land a D1 job, I am never doubling down unless the big is a lottery dude. And I'm never helping off a shooter to stop a drive to the basket. Make that slashing guard finish over length. Cant leave guys open. Florida made 2 3s plus the 3 FT off of leaving the shooter. Add in the mistake of not fouling at the end of the half and that's 12 points that came too easily.
 
** Despite our exciting start, deep down we all knew our trip to Brooklyn was going to begin to tell the take of how real it really was. Unfortunately, this first lesson was not a good one.

** Like most, I was hoping for the Panthers to make a statement. But what the game told us is there’s work to be done.

** I think the reality for this game is that it probably felt a little worse than it actually was, mostly because our expectations may have been a bit too high.

** Although Florida was clearly the better team, I do believe on a better shooting night we could have been right there with them. I’m also of the belief that this is pretty darn good Florida team. We also played right with them for all but two deadly stretches, one in both halves.

** Annoying as he may have been, Walter Clayton seems like a really legit talent to me. And Tyrese Samuel is no slouch either.

** But this isn’t to say we don’t have issues. Most notably, our post defense was simply atrocious. Fede was not good and GDiaz was worse actually. It’s been several games now where they haven’t responded well to physical big posting them up on the blocks.

** Over the past two years, both have used their athleticism well to hedge and recover. But without a double team, Florida was almost certain to score. I think we saw much of the same from that other Florida team we played a few days ago.

** And when we double in the post, it tends to leave guys like Clayton open to fire away. 86 points later, this all added up to our Panthers first loss.

** What bothered me most about our defense with later in the second half when we seemed to settle down offensively, we seemed almost completely powerless to string together stops to make any kind of run.

** But what made our Panthers so exciting in our first four contest was our free flowing, some times effortless offense. Tonight, there were plenty of times when points weren’t coming so easily.

** To my eye the biggest problem with the Panther offense this night was we allowed ourselves to be almost completely a jump shooting team. I will generally exclude Ish from this comment as was attacking the rim with regularity.

** Most everyone else, notably Bub and Blake, were settling for jump shots on a night when they weren’t hitting at a high rate.

** Allow me to note that 17 assists on 24 baskets is not a bad number. But most of these assists were passes on the perimeter for jumpers.

** The number that really should matter is zero. Not just zero points for Fede. He didn’t even get a shot. And GDiaz didn’t score inside either.

** Capel’s offense works best when it’s opening things up inside and out. That wasn’t the case this night.

** What we do know is the Capel wants his players to shoot very confidently. His challenge this year will be what to do when they are shooting a bit too confidently. I don’t think it will ever be a good idea to try to reel them in per se.

** Unfortunately for Jeff, he didn’t have too many options to turn to against the Gators. This might have been a game where later in the year, perhaps Jaland will be a better choice off the bench. But not yet.

** I’d also like to think that there is more we can get out of Zach Austin. This isn’t to say that his 10 and 9 point effort should be viewed as a poor night. And he works very hard on both ends of court. But he might be a key to getting some post points. He’s got to start hitting some threes as well. He wasn’t even close on his three tries tonight.

** Beyond that, I don’t know there’s much more that can be added consistently to the offensive end. This is a much bigger issue if we don’t make progress defensively and will need to score well over 80 to win many of our games against tougher foes.

** I don’t know if Oregon State qualifies as a tougher foe. But we need a win on Friday. This season was never going to be an easy run to the Final Four, even if we had made a statement with a win against the Gators.

** But our guys need to show themselves that they can win in a place like Brooklyn doing what they do.

** Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow Pitt Hoops fans.
There's so much talk about how college bb is a guard's game. And that may well be true. But to be a true contender - a team with legit hopes of making a deep run in the Big Dance - you have to have some kind of interior presence. We have none. Florida had 3 bigs better than anything we have.
 
I know guys get hot and go off from time to time. One thing I hate about our team is we seem to let it happen a little to often. You would think that when Clayton started going crazy, somebody would get all up in his grill and not let him shoot unless he wanted to force one. It just seems to me the hotter a guy gets against us, the more passive we defend him.
 
There's so much talk about how college bb is a guard's game. And that may well be true. But to be a true contender - a team with legit hopes of making a deep run in the Big Dance - you have to have some kind of interior presence. We have none. Florida had 3 bigs better than anything we have.
You must at least have a defensive presence. Sure we block a few shots, but our guys are frail and slow of foot compared to many we play against. Samuel could have broken anyone of the three in half.
 
Well you see on the basketball board we speak with class.
We win nothing but its nice to talk about our exploits young men .

js
 
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But this isn’t to say we don’t have issues. Most notably, our post defense was simply atrocious. Fede was not good and GDiaz was worse actually.
Defense? I had the sound off, but didn't GDiaz single handedly shoot Pitt from a 7 point lead to a tie in like 4 possessions in the first half?
 
we won the rebounding battle, which was encouraging. Also i think we matched up decently in terms of physicality for the most part.

But that was a game where we could have used a nelly Cummings or Burton type player to keep it cool when things were unraveling.
 
It was frustrating to see that they had a transfer (Samuel) and freshman (Condon) dominate inside the way they did. I didn’t realize Clayton was a transfer too. That dude just took over for a stretch and sadly reminded me a bit of the last time these two schools played in which their guard (Wilbekin) was by far the best player on the court. Unlike that game though, Pitt lead or was tied nearly the entire first half, and had some really nice stretches like when they were up 7-0 and 19-10 that gave us serious optimism… only for it to crater when Florida went on runs of their own.

The defense was discouraging. We all figured this team wouldn’t be as good from 3 as last year’s team, but to help make up for that, figured maybe they would be deeper and better on the defensive end.

Will be curious to see how good this Florida team is. They look legit, but as I’ve said in other posts, it can be hard to judge just how good these teams are early on. I keep citing the fact that Pitt lost those 3 straight early games to WVU, Michigan, VCU last season and by season’s end went further than any of those 3 did. People weren’t too high on some of our players early on too, like Nelly, and Nike… who played 37 mins in those 3 games and didn’t score a single point.

It’s a long season. Of course, I still felt myself getting frustrated last night and thinking/saying things that I hope are irrational and won’t be referendums on this team as a whole this season.
 
Defense? I had the sound off, but didn't GDiaz single handedly shoot Pitt from a 7 point lead to a tie in like 4 possessions in the first half?
We basically went with a whole second team lineup for a few minutes - I think it was Lowe, Austin, Jeffress, Jorge and Guillermo. I think we were up a decent chunk, and Capel figured that lineup would at least hold it down defensively for a few minutes and he could get 4/5 starters some rest. Instead, we couldn’t score (as expected) and they sliced us up on a few consecutive possessions before Capel quickly got a few of the starters back in there.
 
A few things I’d tweak:
1. I’d start GDG over Fede. With Austin/Jeffress not being much of an outside threat they need to figure out how to generate more space or else people will take the Florida tape and use that as a blueprint. It was a brilliant game plan by Golden defensively. They made Bub uncomfortable on ball screens all night.
2. I’d play JDG over Jeffress. See above. You’re likely playing him on second line with Fede so you need more spacing. Jeffress hit one last night but Golden would’ve let him shoot 15 more
3. Drill the hell out of taking rhythm shots. Too many times in the first half when it looked like we should’ve pulled away offensively we took my turn shots where it was stuff you work on on your own IE: Hinson contested 3’s andBub’s freestyles. Some of that stuff will go in but too often it’s a low percentage shot. Feet set, catch shoot 3’s I don’t care if Hinson lets it fly or not but there were a few last night where despite his shot making prowess just never had a chance.

The last 2 things are not a tweak but general comments.
1. The execution or coaching on the last play of 1st half was atrocious. I’d go with execution since it was Bub and he didn’t understand the urgency to use that last foul. Goes from 34-32 to 37-32 and all momentum to Florida.
2. Bub is a really nice player. You can tell he’s most likely gonna play in the NBA. If an NBA team convinces themselves to take him in the lottery this year I have no idea what I’m looking at anymore. If I’m drafting a guard in the lottery I’m looking for an athletic freak, a superb shot maker or a superb playmaker. Are you taking the ball out of your best players hands and giving it to Bub next year in the NBA? My answer is no. He’s a back end of first round at best kid in his current form (which is obviously amazing)
 
A few things I’d tweak:
1. I’d start GDG over Fede. With Austin/Jeffress not being much of an outside threat they need to figure out how to generate more space or else people will take the Florida tape and use that as a blueprint. It was a brilliant game plan by Golden defensively. They made Bub uncomfortable on ball screens all night.
2. I’d play JDG over Jeffress. See above. You’re likely playing him on second line with Fede so you need more spacing. Jeffress hit one last night but Golden would’ve let him shoot 15 more
3. Drill the hell out of taking rhythm shots. Too many times in the first half when it looked like we should’ve pulled away offensively we took my turn shots where it was stuff you work on on your own IE: Hinson contested 3’s andBub’s freestyles. Some of that stuff will go in but too often it’s a low percentage shot. Feet set, catch shoot 3’s I don’t care if Hinson lets it fly or not but there were a few last night where despite his shot making prowess just never had a chance.

The last 2 things are not a tweak but general comments.
1. The execution or coaching on the last play of 1st half was atrocious. I’d go with execution since it was Bub and he didn’t understand the urgency to use that last foul. Goes from 34-32 to 37-32 and all momentum to Florida.
2. Bub is a really nice player. You can tell he’s most likely gonna play in the NBA. If an NBA team convinces themselves to take him in the lottery this year I have no idea what I’m looking at anymore. If I’m drafting a guard in the lottery I’m looking for an athletic freak, a superb shot maker or a superb playmaker. Are you taking the ball out of your best players hands and giving it to Bub next year in the NBA? My answer is no. He’s a back end of first round at best kid in his current form (which is obviously amazing)
They need Austin to hit those shots. That’s why they brought him here. He doesn’t need to shoot what Elliott did on those catch and shoot threes, but they brought him here because they believed that he could hit the kinds of shots that he got last night at a way higher percentage than 9% or whatever he is now. They’re not really bad shots, either. They just aren’t going in and they don’t really look like they’re close to going in.

And it seems like the scouting report is pretty set on Bub, and it’s what you said. Get physical with him on the perimeter and dare him to prove that he can beat you off the dribble and taking it all the way to the basket, being physical with him the whole way. Binghamton tried to do it, but Florida had the personnel to actually frustrate him the whole way. Everyone’s gonna play him like that until he proves that he can respond to it, and it’ll be really interesting to see how he does.
 
They need Austin to hit those shots. That’s why they brought him here. He doesn’t need to shoot what Elliott did on those catch and shoot threes, but they brought him here because they believed that he could hit the kinds of shots that he got last night at a way higher percentage than 9% or whatever he is now. They’re not really bad shots, either. They just aren’t going in and they don’t really look like they’re close to going in.

And it seems like the scouting report is pretty set on Bub, and it’s what you said. Get physical with him on the perimeter and dare him to prove that he can beat you off the dribble and taking it all the way to the basket, being physical with him the whole way. Binghamton tried to do it, but Florida had the personnel to actually frustrate him the whole way. Everyone’s gonna play him like that until he proves that he can respond to it, and it’ll be really interesting to see how he does.
Make Bub go left and take away his jumper. Or make it difficult while getting physical. He does t have that burst to blow by and I haven’t seen finishing yet. That would be my scouting report on how to slow him down.
 
Make Bub go left and take away his jumper. Or make it difficult while getting physical. He does t have that burst to blow by and I haven’t seen finishing yet. That would be my scouting report on how to slow him down.
The physical play and lack of a burst is why people need to relax with the one and done thing.
 
A few things I’d tweak:
1. I’d start GDG over Fede. With Austin/Jeffress not being much of an outside threat they need to figure out how to generate more space or else people will take the Florida tape and use that as a blueprint. It was a brilliant game plan by Golden defensively. They made Bub uncomfortable on ball screens all night.
2. I’d play JDG over Jeffress. See above. You’re likely playing him on second line with Fede so you need more spacing. Jeffress hit one last night but Golden would’ve let him shoot 15 more
3. Drill the hell out of taking rhythm shots. Too many times in the first half when it looked like we should’ve pulled away offensively we took my turn shots where it was stuff you work on on your own IE: Hinson contested 3’s andBub’s freestyles. Some of that stuff will go in but too often it’s a low percentage shot. Feet set, catch shoot 3’s I don’t care if Hinson lets it fly or not but there were a few last night where despite his shot making prowess just never had a chance.

The last 2 things are not a tweak but general comments.
1. The execution or coaching on the last play of 1st half was atrocious. I’d go with execution since it was Bub and he didn’t understand the urgency to use that last foul. Goes from 34-32 to 37-32 and all momentum to Florida.
2. Bub is a really nice player. You can tell he’s most likely gonna play in the NBA. If an NBA team convinces themselves to take him in the lottery this year I have no idea what I’m looking at anymore. If I’m drafting a guard in the lottery I’m looking for an athletic freak, a superb shot maker or a superb playmaker. Are you taking the ball out of your best players hands and giving it to Bub next year in the NBA? My answer is no. He’s a back end of first round at best kid in his current form (which is obviously amazing)
Good comments. On the physical side of things I thought Florida’s physicality (a lot of it I thought would normally be called fouls) three Bub and most of the team off their game and they seemed to speed up They really never settled in on offense until the second half and even then I thought they didn’t look comfortable

I agree on Bub. I made the comment in the game thread that he will be an NBA player at some point but the kid is just not physically strong enough to compete against men.

Fede looks almost lost out there. Not sure if it’s the foul trouble or what but he just doesn’t seem very confident on either end of the floor

When Blake’s hitting he’s an asset. When he’s cold he’s the other teams best asset. He seems to have lost some touch since last year. He may want to put some of those LBs bakc on. LOL
 
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Last night was obviously very disappointing . With the poor shooting Pitt displayed I’m not sure a different set of refs would’ve made much of a difference, but I really thought that I was watching a football game . Also how the refs didn’t overturn the foul on Leggett is beyond belief .

At times Fede looks like a force on D , but not against powerful bigs and his offense is non existent which is limited to lobs and put backs . I know most on here are glad that he’s gone , but a guy who’s currently playing at Oklahoma , would help this team in situations like last night . They’re lacking a big strong guy inside and they don’t have anyone to fit the bill . Unfortunately when Papa K got hurt it left Pitt with three long , but thin guys to man the post who just aren’t physical enough . This will be this teams Achilles’ heel .

While on the subject of guys who aren’t here Dior absence also hurts this team . Thanks eggheads !

Instead of showing the scouts his ability to put the ball on the floor Blake is exposing his weaknesses, he needs to be far more selective and stop forcing his shots .

Austin needs to find his shot and quickly , Pitt on offense is playing 3 on 5 .

Leggett is a baller .

My vision of the twins on offense is watching seven footers raining down 3’s not putting the ball on the floor driving to the hoop .

Bub showed he was 18 last night , the physicality bothered him , but great players learn and adapt .

No need to panic this team will still win its share of games , but last night exposed their weaknesses , they’ll get better .
 
Last night was obviously very disappointing . With the poor shooting Pitt displayed I’m not sure a different set of refs would’ve made much of a difference, but I really thought that I was watching a football game . Also how the refs didn’t overturn the foul on Leggett is beyond belief .

At times Fede looks like a force on D , but not against powerful bigs and his offense is non existent which is limited to lobs and put backs . I know most on here are glad that he’s gone , but a guy who’s currently playing at Oklahoma , would help this team in situations like last night . They’re lacking a big strong guy inside and they don’t have anyone to fit the bill . Unfortunately when Papa K got hurt it left Pitt with three long , but thin guys to man the post who just aren’t physical enough . This will be this teams Achilles’ heel .

While on the subject of guys who aren’t here Dior absence also hurts this team . Thanks eggheads !

Instead of showing the scouts his ability to put the ball on the floor Blake is exposing his weaknesses, he needs to be far more selective and stop forcing his shots .

Austin needs to find his shot and quickly , Pitt on offense is playing 3 on 5 .

Leggett is a baller .

My vision of the twins on offense is watching seven footers raining down 3’s not putting the ball on the floor driving to the hoop .

Bub showed he was 18 last night , the physicality bothered him , but great players learn and adapt .

No need to panic this team will still win its share of games , but last night exposed their weaknesses , they’ll get better .
I don’t think Austin has a shot To find.
 
I thought we played well against Florida last night. We do have some troubles both offense and defense. Bub will correct his mistake even though his weakness is going to the left. Florida really pushed the floor and I don't think we can do that on a continuous basis. We need more bench play and don't have the players to do that.
 
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Last night was obviously very disappointing . With the poor shooting Pitt displayed I’m not sure a different set of refs would’ve made much of a difference, but I really thought that I was watching a football game . Also how the refs didn’t overturn the foul on Leggett is beyond belief .

At times Fede looks like a force on D , but not against powerful bigs and his offense is non existent which is limited to lobs and put backs . I know most on here are glad that he’s gone , but a guy who’s currently playing at Oklahoma , would help this team in situations like last night . They’re lacking a big strong guy inside and they don’t have anyone to fit the bill . Unfortunately when Papa K got hurt it left Pitt with three long , but thin guys to man the post who just aren’t physical enough . This will be this teams Achilles’ heel .

While on the subject of guys who aren’t here Dior absence also hurts this team . Thanks eggheads !

Instead of showing the scouts his ability to put the ball on the floor Blake is exposing his weaknesses, he needs to be far more selective and stop forcing his shots .

Austin needs to find his shot and quickly , Pitt on offense is playing 3 on 5 .

Leggett is a baller .

My vision of the twins on offense is watching seven footers raining down 3’s not putting the ball on the floor driving to the hoop .

Bub showed he was 18 last night , the physicality bothered him , but great players learn and adapt .

No need to panic this team will still win its share of games , but last night exposed their weaknesses , they’ll get better .
I think we needed to move the ball more, not less. The ball didn’t move when Hugley was here, and Hugley was objectively bad defensively by any metric. Samuel would have eaten him alive.

I think the game last night was lost in the backcourt, honestly. Like you said, it’s the first time this year that Bub looked like he was 18 years old. Florida looked at played like the more mature, experienced backcourt. Leggett had the juice to match that maturity, but it felt like he slipped into the first year Burton “gonna make something happen with the ball” sort of game.

I still think we’ve got a good team, and it felt like a game where we didn’t rise to meet the moment moreso than a game that showed structural flaws. Felt like the moment was too big for us, we got into a bad game situation and started to scramble, and just couldn’t get it back under control.
 
First of all Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, and
thanks DT for your usual post game analysis.

A lot of good comments in this thread. I felt
we were totally out physicaled . The refs didn't
help by letting both teams go at it. Unfortunately
it worked in FU's favor. We were manhandled
again inside (see FGCU's Bigs against us). On
the outside, they really worked over Carrington.
They focused on him. As good as he is, they were
all over him defensively, and as the game wore on,
he struggled. He's also still a very young player.
As for Hinson, they also focused on him defensively.
It got to the point where he was forcing everything
and they got him frustrated, which was probably
in their game plan. They had us well scouted.

We were cold from the field, but as I saw it, it
was due to their defense. Basically they took us
out of our offense for a major part of the game.
It wasn't as simple as we just had a poor night
shooting the ball. They forced us into it. Who
DID they give open looks to?....Austin. They knew
what they were doing and IMO executed a very
good game plan. Clayton? I went to an Iona game
last season when he played for Pitino. He was
their designated shooter. I wasn't surprised last
night by him.

For all those who live and die with stats, here's
one for ya. Rebounds, Pitt - 46, FU - 37. You
woulda thought we dominated inside. HA!

Well with all that, I think we can bounce back
from this. I'd like to think it's a learning experience
from which we'll use to improve.
 
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The physical play and lack of a burst is why people need to relax with the one and done thing.
Exactly. He's very talented, but he's still a kid.
Just look at him physically compared to some
of these, mature, experienced guards who also
have some talent. They worked him over, the
refs let a lot of it go, and he became frustrated.
All of it understandable IMO.

However, given some time I believe he'll overcome
what might hold him back at this point.
 
It was frustrating to see that they had a transfer (Samuel) and freshman (Condon) dominate inside the way they did. I didn’t realize Clayton was a transfer too. That dude just took over for a stretch and sadly reminded me a bit of the last time these two schools played in which their guard (Wilbekin) was by far the best player on the court. Unlike that game though, Pitt lead or was tied nearly the entire first half, and had some really nice stretches like when they were up 7-0 and 19-10 that gave us serious optimism… only for it to crater when Florida went on runs of their own.

The defense was discouraging. We all figured this team wouldn’t be as good from 3 as last year’s team, but to help make up for that, figured maybe they would be deeper and better on the defensive end.

Will be curious to see how good this Florida team is. They look legit, but as I’ve said in other posts, it can be hard to judge just how good these teams are early on. I keep citing the fact that Pitt lost those 3 straight early games to WVU, Michigan, VCU last season and by season’s end went further than any of those 3 did. People weren’t too high on some of our players early on too, like Nelly, and Nike… who played 37 mins in those 3 games and didn’t score a single point.

It’s a long season. Of course, I still felt myself getting frustrated last night and thinking/saying things that I hope are irrational and won’t be referendums on this team as a whole this season.
I too, was frustrated. I was most disappointed in our defense. I really don't think Florida is much more talented than we are. They are probably just a bit stronger. That said, they played defense and forced us away from the hoop and we obliged by forcing up many bad shots. Meanwhile, they carved us up and got into the paint at will. That is a recipe for losing basketball games. If we don't improve Bigly on the defensive end, we are not going to fare well in this stretch of 5 P5 games.
 
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Happy Thanksgiving to all Panther fans!

Good comments all around. I think we're a young team for the most part and Bub showed his lack of experience and some weaknesses while being defended strongly by UF. Our defensive effort also wasn't up to what we'll need going forward if we hope to make any noise at all in the ACC. Our inside presence didn't exist at all. That's where we were manhandled.

It will take some time for this to all come together. Todd Golden and his staff certainly scouted us well. Golden is from all indications going to be a very good coach for them. I hope Capel can pull this team together to play some defense and develop Bub into the player he could become. He's certainly not ready for the NBA this year or maybe next year as well. But that is good for us because we'll get to watch him develop longer.
 
I think we needed to move the ball more, not less. The ball didn’t move when Hugley was here, and Hugley was objectively bad defensively by any metric. Samuel would have eaten him alive.

I think the game last night was lost in the backcourt, honestly. Like you said, it’s the first time this year that Bub looked like he was 18 years old. Florida looked at played like the more mature, experienced backcourt. Leggett had the juice to match that maturity, but it felt like he slipped into the first year Burton “gonna make something happen with the ball” sort of game.

I still think we’ve got a good team, and it felt like a game where we didn’t rise to meet the moment moreso than a game that showed structural flaws. Felt like the moment was too big for us, we got into a bad game situation and started to scramble, and just couldn’t get it back under control.
As Pitts roster is currently constituted they don’t have the answer to playing against physically talented bigs and this will be a matchup problem all season . They need a strong stud inside .

Bub will be fine , he got schooled last night and the great ones learn from this .

As for Leggett he’s taking it to the hole every chance he gets , I like his assertiveness and yesterday someone had to do something.
 
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I too, was frustrated. I was most disappointed in our defense. I really don't think Florida is much more talented than we are. They are probably just a bit stronger. That said, they played defense and forced us away from the hoop and we obliged by forcing up many bad shots. Meanwhile, they carved us up and got into the paint at will. That is a recipe for losing basketball games. If we don't improve Bigly on the defensive end, we are not going to fare well in this stretch of 5 P5 games.

Their bigs are much better than ours and a lot stronger. That was one of the differences. Let's admit it. UF is a talented team that right now is better than Pitt and they showed it.
 
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I would rather have a game like this in the 5th game of the season instead of the 30th game.

The Freshman learned that teams would play them in a physical fashion, and they must adjust their games and play through the contact.

Our Bigs must also be more physical in the post and make good use of their fouls. If you are going to commit a foul, make it a good one and do not give up the and-one’s.

Granted, this game was extremely physical, and they may not see another trio of referee’s who allow the game to reach the level of physicality of this Florida game but if they do, they will know what they should do.

Despite the loss there were some good experiences that could be taken away and a lot to be optimistic about for the rest of the year.

The next 4 games are against Power 5 competition let's see how that goes.
 
As Pitts roster is currently constituted they don’t have the answer to playing against physically talented bigs and this will be a matchup problem all season . They need a strong stud inside .

Bub will be fine , he got schooled last night and the great ones learn from this .

As for Leggett he’s taking it to the hole every chance he gets , I like his assertiveness and yesterday someone had to do something.
My point is more that Hugley was big, but he wasn’t ever physical. He looked more rugged than he played. He was the worst screen setter I’ve ever seen, and a way below average interior defender with zero vertical threat. He was big and he could wall off to get a bunch of rebounds, but rebounding wasn’t the issue last night.

Samuel (who we came in second place for to Seton Hall out of high school) would have manhandled Hugley, too, because Hugley never wanted to play that game and what it entailed. I think Papa would have helped more than Hugley, but obviously that’s not an option.
 
Their bigs are much better than ours and a lot stronger. That was one of the differences. Let's admit it. UF is a talented team that right now is better than Pitt and they showed it.
I mostly agree. I just think their ability to defend was the difference. Of course, we have no inside game, which makes defending the perimeter easier. I dont think Florida is going to be a top 20 team tho. If Baylor has any inside game at all, I expect they win by 10 against Florida.
Interior defense is our greatest weakness, and we got exposed. Most P5 teams have guys quick enough and strong enough to defend their own basket. We don't. I suspect Tyrese Samuel will look very pedestrian against Baylor on Friday, and not like the All-American he looked like last night.
 
My point is more that Hugley was big, but he wasn’t ever physical. He looked more rugged than he played. He was the worst screen setter I’ve ever seen, and a way below average interior defender with zero vertical threat. He was big and he could wall off to get a bunch of rebounds, but rebounding wasn’t the issue last night.

Samuel (who we came in second place for to Seton Hall out of high school) would have manhandled Hugley, too, because Hugley never wanted to play that game and what it entailed. I think Papa would have helped more than Hugley, but obviously that’s not an option.
I’d love to see a matchup with Oklahoma, my thoughts are he’d run roughshod over our bigs and while he’s not a great defender he’s a ton more physical than Fede and the twins , it is a shame Papa got hurt .
 
** Despite our exciting start, deep down we all knew our trip to Brooklyn was going to begin to tell the tale of how real it really was. Unfortunately, this first lesson was not a good one.

** Like most, I was hoping for the Panthers to make a statement. But what the game told us is there’s work to be done.

** I think the reality for this game is that it probably felt a little worse than it actually was, mostly because our expectations may have been a bit too high.

** Although Florida was clearly the better team, I do believe on a better shooting night we could have been right there with them. I’m also of the belief that this is pretty darn good Florida team. Finally, you could also make the case that we played with them for all but two deadly stretches, one in each half.

** Annoying as he may have been, Walter Clayton seems like a really legit talent to me. And Tyrese Samuel is no slouch either.

** But this isn’t to say we don’t have issues. Most notably, our post defense was simply atrocious. Fede was not good and GDiaz was worse actually. It’s been several games now where they haven’t responded well to physical bigs posting them up on the blocks.

** Over the past two years, both have used their athleticism well to hedge and recover. But without a double team, Florida was almost certain to score. I think we saw much of the same from that other Florida team we played a few days ago.

** And when we double in the post, it tends to leave guys like Clayton open to fire away. 86 points later, this all added up to our Panthers first loss.

** What bothered me most about our defense was later in the second half when we seemed to settle down offensively, we seemed almost completely powerless to string together stops to make any kind of run.

** But what made our Panthers so exciting in our first four contests was our free flowing, some times effortless offense. Tonight, there were plenty of times when points weren’t coming so easily.

** To my eye the biggest problem with the Panther offense this night was we allowed ourselves to be almost completely a jump shooting team. I will generally exclude Ish from this comment as was attacking the rim with regularity.

** Most everyone else, notably Bub and Blake, were settling for jump shots on a night when they weren’t hitting at a high rate.

** Allow me to note that 17 assists on 24 baskets is not a bad number. But most of these assists were passes on the perimeter for jumpers.

** The number that really should matter is zero. Not just zero points for Fede. He didn’t even get a shot. And GDiaz didn’t score inside either.

** Capel’s offense works best when it’s opening things up inside and out. That wasn’t the case this night.

** What we do know is the Capel wants his players to shoot very confidently. His challenge this year will be what to do when they are shooting a bit too confidently. I don’t think it will ever be a good idea to try to reel them in per se.

** Unfortunately for Jeff, he didn’t have too many options to turn to against the Gators. This might have been a game where later in the year, perhaps Jaland will be a better choice off the bench. But not yet.

** I’d also like to think that there is more we can get out of Zach Austin. This isn’t to say that his 10 and 9 point effort should be viewed as a poor night. And he works very hard on both ends of court. But he might be a key to getting some post points. He’s got to start hitting some threes as well. He wasn’t even close on his three tries tonight.

** Beyond that, I don’t know there’s much more that can be added consistently to the offensive end. This is a much bigger issue if we don’t make progress defensively and will need to score well over 80 to win many of our games against tougher foes.

** I don’t know if Oregon State qualifies as a tougher foe. But we need a win on Friday. This season was never going to be an easy run to the Final Four, even if we had made a statement with a win against the Gators.

** But our guys need to show themselves that they can win in a place like Brooklyn doing what they do.

** Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow Pitt Hoops fans.
"But this isn’t to say we don’t have issues. Most notably, our post defense was simply atrocious. Fede was not good and GDiaz was worse actually. It’s been several games now where they haven’t responded well to physical bigs posting them up on the blocks."

Agree. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem very fixable, IMHO. The triplets just aren't wide enough/strong enough. Improving their defensive technique can help. But, IMO, not enough.

Looking at the boxscore, the thing that sticks out most statistically speaking, is turnover margin. Pitt's 14 to Florida's 8 (also reflected in Florida's 11 steals to Pitt's 5). That gave Florida 6 extra possessions and Pitt 6 fewer.

If you use each team's points scored per number of shots taken (as a less accurate surrogate for points/possession) then, that turnover differential would fully account for the final scoring margin--or even a few points more. The periods of out of control play by the panthers certainly contributed to the turnover differential.

The good news here is that taking better care of the ball should be a lot more fixable than the post strength mis-match sproblem, IMHO.
 
I too, was frustrated. I was most disappointed in our defense. I really don't think Florida is much more talented than we are. They are probably just a bit stronger. That said, they played defense and forced us away from the hoop and we obliged by forcing up many bad shots. Meanwhile, they carved us up and got into the paint at will. That is a recipe for losing basketball games. If we don't improve Bigly on the defensive end, we are not going to fare well in this stretch of 5 P5 games.

Florida scored 50 points in 22, outscoring us 50-28 turning a 9 point deficit into a 13 point lead. Early on in the game thread, we were saying they were getting good looks and we werent. Florida is good, but the D is definitely a major concern
 
The Florida team just physically stronger then Pitt especially with the bigs. Have to remember this is a young team with the guard play and need to get stronger as they mature. Pitt needs a big strong center to bad the kid left last year but Pitt is tall but lacks the bulk. They need to be more patient on offense to much one on one. The assists weren’t bad but need to pass the ball more for the better shot.
 
Looking at the boxscore, the thing that sticks out most statistically speaking, is turnover margin. Pitt's 14 to Florida's 8 (also reflected in Florida's 11 steals to Pitt's 5). That gave Florida 6 extra possessions and Pitt 6 fewer.

If you use each team's points scored per number of shots taken (as a less accurate surrogate for points/possession) then, that turnover differential would fully account for the final scoring margin--or even a few points more. The periods of out of control play by the panthers certainly contributed to the turnover d
I agree with your take on TO margin, and the effect on
the scoring margin. The only thing I would add is WHY.
As in why did these 14 TO's occur? What was causing
them? The easy answer is sloppy play. As I saw it, it
was an aggressive defense that overwhelmed us. The
"out of control play by the panthers" that you mention
is very true, However, it was caused by a D that had our
number. They concentrated on Carrington and Hinson
and got them both out of whack. No accident either.
I'm sure they had us well scouted and as I said earlier,
had a game plan which they executed. Again, why was
Austin getting open looks? Answer...their D. I'll also
throw in the refs. They let a lot go, it benefitd them
more than it did us. Just my two cents.
 
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Florida scored 50 points in 22, outscoring us 50-28 turning a 9 point deficit into a 13 point lead. Early on in the game thread, we were saying they were getting good looks and we werent. Florida is good, but the D is definitely a major concern


The worst part of this game was how the 2 halves finished.

Half number 1

Pitt has a 3 point lead with the ball with 1 minute to play

Hinson tries to drive the ball in the paint with literally 4 Florida players right there waiting for him. He gets swallowed up by the 4 of them, turns the ball over and anyone watching this knew a turnover was coming, he jogs back half ass on defense after making the turnover, and Florida nails a wide open transition 3.

Then Bub has the ball, Pitt is tied with 40 seconds left. Fede sets a weak screen, Bub dribbles into a double team, turns the ball over, Wide open transition layup by Florida.

3rd trip. Jaland Lowe misses a 3, Fede gets called for over the back. Florida gets the ball back. I don't know what in the hell Hinson was trying to do on defense which looked like another failed switch or Hinson not knowing where he even was, but he left his man wide open who buried the 3 to finish the half.

8-0 swing Florida in 1 minute because of dumb mistakes.

2nd half

Florida rebounded the ball with 28 seconds left. Both team literally quit playing as the lead was 11. Pitt wasn't even trying anymore. The ball gets passes to Clayton who could have basically ran the clock out, who instead of showing sportsmanship, made a wideopen layup after both teams quit playing and there wasn't another player within 15 feet or so of him. Pitt was walking around at that point.

Then Pitt runs down, chucks up another 3, and Hinson being braindead decides to foul again down 13 points with 15 seconds left and no one trying. Florida makes 2 more free throws.

4-0 swing



In 1:30 seconds of total basketball, we had a 12 point swing from total bonehead plays. Its Thanksgiving and I am trying to say it as nicely as I can. Total bonehead plays.
 
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