Guesses about what a 2018 class might look like

[Jpripper88]

You don't think ND has an advantage? You don't think Miami and FSU have an advantage? You don't think NC St under Gottfried had an advantage?

You don't understand why Western Kentucky out recruits us?

Virginia Tech is the coach. Providence maybe more going on there than meets the eye(admission wise).

Schools like Xavier, Butler and Creighton have been at the top of the food chain in their leagues, plus they have developed a certain niche that works to their advantage. That is something we need to do. Stallings has said as much.

No, I do not. I think you are hypothesizing excuses for Pitt, though. In fact, I am sure you are doing that. Get a coach who can recruit and we can be a notch below the blue bloods, if he is also a good X&Os. Have a guy like Stallings who falls short in both areas and we will be one of the worst P5 programs in the country.

"Providence maybe more going on there than meets the eye(admission wise)."
This is the lamest, laziest, and dumbest excuse there is. Pitt recruits some very, very dumb and barely eligible kids to play basketball and football. So does everyone else. If they are NCAA eligible and accept a Pitt scholarship, they are admitted.

They don't have a niche. Their place "at the top of the food chain" in lower level leagues don't mean much. What matters is their coaches/staffs. That is the "advantage" we need.

Basketball is much, much simpler than football.

 

[whirlybird optio]

If you came into a situation where your roster (before recruiting) would be this in 2017:

R.Nix
R.Luther
C.Johnson (maybe/maybe not)
D.Wilson
J.Kithcart

C.Manigault
C.Clark
J.Milligan

Remember you are Pitt (not Duke or UNC)and have 5 or 6 scholarships to give to add to the above.

How long do you think it should take to assemble a tournament team(when you play an ACC schedule)? Lets start here in terms of gratification.

Forget Kevan Stallings is the coach. Presume if you want, Dixon is the coach or anyone (who doesn't cheat) else.

How long to make a tournament team from the above?

It's impossible to say. I'd say a coach of Dixon's level will get to a tournament in 3 years no matter what the situation. If he goes 0-2 the next two seasons at TCU, I'll be proven wrong I guess (even if his year one was a minor miracle and an NIT win)

Also, remember, we didn't HAVE to suck so bad last year. I think Dixon or a similar type coach can coax 7-8 ACC wins out of that group..which is all we would have needed.

If KS made the field last year, I think people's perception would be a lot different. Instead, the year was a failure, largely due to his inept coaching and player development.

 

[gary2]

It's impossible to say. I'd say a coach of Dixon's level will get to a tournament in 3 years no matter what the situation. If he goes 0-2 the next two seasons at TCU, I'll be proven wrong I guess (even if his year one was a minor miracle and an NIT win)

Also, remember, we didn't HAVE to suck so bad last year. I think Dixon or a similar type coach can coax 7-8 ACC wins out of that group..which is all we would have needed.

If KS made the field last year, I think people's perception would be a lot different. Instead, the year was a failure, largely due to his inept coaching and player development.

Not much there to argue with - A very reasonable point of view

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Stallings will hopefully be gone after season 3, and we can try again with a coach who isn't a complete abortion.

 

[levance2]

If KS made the field last year, I think people's perception would be a lot different. Instead, the year was a failure, largely due to his inept coaching and player development.

I'll go even further. If Stallings had shown any interest in developing his non-senior players last year, and we were right to expect improved performance from them this year, I'd feel totally different. The fact that the wheels fell off in January, and he still did nothing to develop his underclassmen, then proceeded to chase them all away is unforgivable.

For @gary2 to preach patience because KS needs to keep these development guys in the system is a joke. Half of the Stallings defenders have already admitted his recruiting strategy is grab a bunch of low hanging fruit and cast off anyone who doesn't perform this year.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Not much there to argue with - A very reasonable point of view

What is so reasonable about it? There were at least six games that were up for grabs with a minute or two left and no one made a play in the clutch. No one. A shot, defensive stop, even a key rebound when the numbers were there. If you need to place blame, point it in the right direction, at those who were on the court.

And player development? Seriously? I don't even know what that means other than giving a kid time to mature and let the game come to them. There was no one on the roster further down than Luther who deserved more minutes than they got. Sure didn't see it on the court.

I guess I'll get branded an apologist. It's OK. The truth is I would have looked elsewhere but to say he is a lousy coach is such bullsh!t. Whether he is the right fit for us will play out in a few years.

 

[wbrpanther]

Stallings will hopefully be gone after season 3, and we can try again with a coach who isn't a complete abortion.

Hopefully? So not only do you say we are going to suck, you are hoping we suck bad enough that Stallings will be gone. That could be the case but, I for one hope we do well.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Hopefully? So not only do you say we are going to suck, you are hoping we suck bad enough that Stallings will be gone. That could be the case but, I for one hope we do well.

Doing well the next two seasons isn't an option.

 

[gary2]

What is so reasonable about it? There were at least six games that were up for grabs with a minute or two left and no one made a play in the clutch. No one. A shot, defensive stop, even a key rebound when the numbers were there. If you need to place blame, point it in the right direction, at those who were on the court.

And player development? Seriously? I don't even know what that means other than giving a kid time to mature and let the game come to them. There was no one on the roster further down than Luther who deserved more minutes than they got. Sure didn't see it on the court.

I guess I'll get branded an apologist. It's OK. The truth is I would have looked elsewhere but to say he is a lousy coach is such bullsh!t. Whether he is the right fit for us will play out in a few years.

The post I responded to with that comment was reasonable and yours is as well.

I agree with you - there were games we could have won, but there were also games we could have lost - Your record is basically your record - The Artis suspension and the Young and Luther injuries certainly did not help - The call at the end of the ND game did not help either - We could have made the tourney and as the poster I responded to indicated, maybe the perception of Stallings would be different.

I think we can all agree that Dixon would have coached last years team very different from the way Stallings did. Given Dixon's history, I can't say we wouldn't have made the tourney. I can say I think it would have been close.

I agree with you: there were no players to be developed - the roster has been and needed to be purged.

As to inept coaching: I think Stallings is better than fine as an Xs and Os coach. While maybe not rising to inept, his psychological approach to last years team obviously was not successful and it sounds like he has had problems with that sort of thing in his coaching history.

I had argued with whirlybird throughout this thread. I thought his last post had brought us to a point where we still had disagreement, but recognized each others positions as reasonable/understandable.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

That clock has been ticking for quite a while already.

It's at five yrs and counting ! Best case is two if he fails with this upcoming class .

 

[gary2]

2018 recruits:

1 - B.Golden

2 - Zegarowski - Kalscheur - Cohill

3 - Forrester - J.Williams - T.Samuel

4 - Kisunas - Thamba - Thioune

Realistic ? Need to do better? Probably will do worse? Thoughts? (Its been a slow day)

Where we are now? - 2 to fill in the early signing period - Maybe(Probably) 1 or 2 to fill late?

1 - B.Golden

2 - Cohill - Drinnon - Kingsby - C.Jones

3 - Forrester - Sow - Nichols - S.Seymour

(4 or 5 ) - Kisunas - Thamba - Thioune

Z.Scott - Akinjo - Sackey - Hinton - Bey - Griffin - J.Walter - G.Bryant ? - Probably others (like Drinnon) will emerge out of nowhere as well

 

[NCanton Panther]

Where we are now? - 2 to fill in the early signing period - Maybe(Probably) 1 or 2 to fill late?

1 - B.Golden

2 - Cohill - Drinnon - Kingsby - C.Jones

3 - Forrester - Sow - Nichols - J.Williams - T.Samuel - S.Seymour

(4 or 5 ) - Kisunas - Thamba - Thioune

Z.Scott - Akinjo - Bey - Sackey - Hinton - J.Walter - G.Bryant - Z.Griffin - L.Nolley ? - Probably others (like Drinnon) will emerge out of nowhere as well

I thought I saw where Cohill recently got an offer from Duke. Can't see him picking Pitt unless he views it as a lot less competition for playing time vs at Duke or other P5 schools he has offers from.

 

[gary2]

I thought I saw where Cohill recently got an offer from Duke. Can't see him picking Pitt unless he views it as a lot less competition for playing time vs at Duke or other P5 schools he has offers from.

If he has a Duke offer, I would agree, he likely signs with Duke.

 

[gary2]

I thought I saw where Cohill recently got an offer from Duke. Can't see him picking Pitt unless he views it as a lot less competition for playing time vs at Duke or other P5 schools he has offers from.

Cohill to use official visits to Ohio State and Vir Tech. Story lists a top 10 with no mention of Duke.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals...-sets-two-official-visits-list-remains-at-ten

 

[goodtymes]

Sounds like it's going to be Golden, and the 2 Juco guards. Very underwhelming

 

[AvonBarksdale]

If he has a Duke offer, I would agree, he likely signs with Duke.

I don't think there's interest between these two. At least not that I've come across.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Sounds like it's going to be Golden, and the 2 Juco guards. Very underwhelming

What 2 Juco Guards?

 

[NCanton Panther]

I don't think there's interest between these two. At least not that I've come across.

Correct, I was thinking of the wrong guy when I said Cohill had just gotten a Duke offer.

 

[NCanton Panther]

What 2 Juco Guards?

I'm assuming he's referring to Kingsby and CJones, both at the same JUCO Southern Idaho

 

[goodtymes]

I'm assuming he's referring to Kingsby and CJones, both at the same JUCO Southern Idaho

Those are the 2. Both visiting on September 2nd, and both looking to wrap up their recruiting fairly soon

 

[gary2]

Those are the 2. Both visiting on September 2nd, and both looking to wrap up their recruiting fairly soon

Would Pitt wait to see what Drue Drinnon does after his visit on 9/15?

 

[Jpripper88]

Those are the 2. Both visiting on September 2nd, and both looking to wrap up their recruiting fairly soon

If we accept commitments from both of those kids before the late signing period, Stallings should be fired on the spot.

 

[goodtymes]

Forrester visits that weekend too, though I've read that Stallings would accept both of their commitments and basically be done with 2018 if they wanted to, which would be the nail in his coffin

 

[DT_PITT]

2018 recruits:

1 - B.Golden

2 - Zegarowski - Kalscheur - Cohill

3 - Forrester - J.Williams - T.Samuel

4 - Kisunas - Thamba - Thioune

Realistic ? Need to do better? Probably will do worse? Thoughts? (Its been a slow day)

With Forrester now off the board, this picture gets a little more discouraging in my mind.

I guess our hopes rest almost completely with Bey (with whom you'd hope we'd have some shot) and Griffin (where it feels the chances are less).

If we can't secure either of those, it would seem how much you like the 2018 class will depend on how good you think Golden and Kingsby are, as they will likely be the top players in the class.

 

[thirteenNINE]

A Bey, Golden, Kingsby class is only barely good enough and I honestly think that our chances with Bey are less than 20%. These l last two classes cannot be spun positively.

 

[DT_PITT]

A Bey, Golden, Kingsby class is only barely good enough and I honestly think that our chances with Bey are less than 20%. These l last two classes cannot be spun positively.

If we don't get Bey, then more or less I'd have to agree with you,

 

[gary2]

With Forrester now off the board, this picture gets a little more discouraging in my mind.

I guess our hopes rest almost completely with Bey (with whom you'd hope we'd have some shot) and Griffin (where it feels the chances are less).

If we can't secure either of those, it would seem how much you like the 2018 class will depend on how good you think Golden and Kingsby are, as they will likely be the top players in the class.

What I previously had to say about Forrester:

is a highly ranked recruit. Media accounts indicate he might be a possibility a Pitt.

I have seen one high school game in which Jake participated (it was only one game). I thought Jake was invisible. I had observed the same thing watching one game (only one game) that D.Wilson and C.Manigault participated in. I hope Jake's one game was an aberration. I hope Jake turns out to be a fine player and that he plays at Pitt.

I saw Lamar play one game and immediately felt he was a player. I saw Mike Young play one game and felt he was talented but had no desire to play inside (offense or defense).

Sometimes one game tells you nothing, other times one game can tell you a lot.

It does seem to me that (at times) a player's ranking can be influenced by who he plays for and who he plays against plus high profile televised games.

 

[DT_PITT]

What I previously had to say about Forrester:

Are you saying now that you really didn't think he is that good of a player anyway and that you are not discouraged by this?

 

[gary2]

Are you saying now that you really didn't think he is that good of a player anyway and that you are not discouraged by this?

This is what I said then, 7/21/17:

I have seen one high school game in which Jake participated (it was only one game). I thought Jake was invisible. I had observed the same thing watching one game (only one game) that D.Wilson and C.Manigault participated in. I hope Jake's one game was an aberration. I hope Jake turns out to be a fine player and that he plays at Pitt.

I have not seen or heard anything since to change that opinion. The last bolded sentence indicated I hoped that he played at Pitt. So, in that sense I am discouraged.

I do think the staff plan was for a power forward (Golden) to replace Luther, a point guard (Kingsby) to replace Milligan and a wing scorer (Bey or Griffin or ?) to replace Boykins

I believe a big (Kisunas, Thamba, Thioune or ?) will come in the late signing period to replace one of Llegomah, Chukwula, T.Brown or George.

 

[DT_PITT]

This is what I said then, 7/21/17:

I have seen one high school game in which Jake participated (it was only one game). I thought Jake was invisible. I had observed the same thing watching one game (only one game) that D.Wilson and C.Manigault participated in. I hope Jake's one game was an aberration. I hope Jake turns out to be a fine player and that he plays at Pitt.

I have not seen or heard anything since to change that opinion. The last bolded sentence indicated I hoped that he played at Pitt. So, in that sense I am discouraged.

I do think the staff plan was for a power forward (Golden) to replace Luther, a point guard (Kingsby) to replace Milligan and a wing scorer (Bey or Griffin or ?) to replace Boykins

I believe a big (Kisunas, Thamba, Thioune or ?) will come in the late signing period to replace one of Llegomah, Chukwula, T.Brown or George.

Fair enough. So much is riding on Bey or Griffin.
Also, for what it's worth, I am hearing that there are not high expectations on what Boykins role will be.

 

[gary2]

Fair enough. So much is riding on Bey or Griffin.
Also, for what it's worth, I am hearing that there are not high expectations on what Boykins role will be.

I much rather would have Bey than Griffin. I have recently conversed with someone whose opinion I value greatly. He compared Griffin to Malcom Gilbert, in that one big weekend (and a Kansas offer) caused maybe an unwarranted rise in the rankings. He also pointed out that much of Griffin's scoring came on ahead of the pack dunks.

Be that as it may, If Kansas is just stringing Griffin along (and Iowa State does not do what Iowa State can do), I think we have a chance with Griffin.

I think you mentioned you doubted Boykins ability long before now. Athlon magazine does not even mention Boykins. Mentioned in their write up is only 6 Pitt players. Luther, Brown and George in the frontcourt and Carr, Stewart and Frame in the backcourt.

 

[DT_PITT]

I much rather would have Bey than Griffin. I have recently conversed with someone whose opinion I value greatly. He compared Griffin to Malcom Gilbert, in that one big weekend (and a Kansas offer) caused maybe an unwarranted rise in the rankings. He also pointed out that much of Griffin's scoring came on ahead of the pack dunks.

Be that as it may, If Kansas is just stringing Griffin along (and Iowa State does not do what Iowa State can do), I think we have a chance with Griffin.

I think you mentioned you doubted Boykins ability long before now. Athlon magazine does not even mention Boykins. Mentioned in their write up is only 6 Pitt players. Luther, Brown and George in the frontcourt and Carr, Stewart and Frame in the backcourt.

Your take on Griffin is more informed than mine. Let's just snag Bey and not worry about!

 

[DT_PITT]

I much rather would have Bey than Griffin. I have recently conversed with someone whose opinion I value greatly. He compared Griffin to Malcom Gilbert, in that one big weekend (and a Kansas offer) caused maybe an unwarranted rise in the rankings. He also pointed out that much of Griffin's scoring came on ahead of the pack dunks.

Be that as it may, If Kansas is just stringing Griffin along (and Iowa State does not do what Iowa State can do), I think we have a chance with Griffin.

I think you mentioned you doubted Boykins ability long before now. Athlon magazine does not even mention Boykins. Mentioned in their write up is only 6 Pitt players. Luther, Brown and George in the frontcourt and Carr, Stewart and Frame in the backcourt.

Well ... it's all down to Bey now.

 

[thirteenNINE]

The fact that it's September and we're all in on one recruit to make or break the class and we don't even lead for him is concerning...

 

[Jpripper88]

The fact that it's September and we're all in on one recruit to make or break the class and we don't even lead for him is concerning...

And even if we get him, we still have an average to below average class. It isn't like we are talking about Marvin Bagley.

 

[pitt2533]

And even if we get him, we still have an average to below average class. It isn't like we are talking about Marvin Bagley.

I don't think it would be a bad class on the surface if the existing roster was sound. But when you completely rebuild and totally clean house, you need a better class coming in than what they have for 2018 even if they land Bey.

 

[Haydman]

I don't think it would be a bad class on the surface if the existing roster was sound. But when you completely rebuild and totally clean house, you need a better class coming in than what they have for 2018 even if they land Bey.

This. Even if they land Bey you're looking at a class with 2 guys in the 100-150 range and what appears to be a decent JUCO transfer. The problem is that you're following a class that had 1 borderline top 100 guy and too many guys that are considered "projects" or basically long shots to be significant contributors.

 

[Jpripper88]

I don't think it would be a bad class on the surface if the existing roster was sound. But when you completely rebuild and totally clean house, you need a better class coming in than what they have for 2018 even if they land Bey.

I am just comparing it to our competition, regardless of our roster situation being pitiful. Against our ACC competition it would be an average to below average class. That isn't going to get it done.

 

[pitt2533]

I am just comparing it to our competition, regardless of our roster situation being pitiful. Against our ACC competition it would be an average to below average class. That isn't going to get it done.

That's fair. But we have been looking up at the other ACC schools since we entered the league as far as recruiting goes.

And believe me, I am not defending Stallings anymore. This program is a sunk ship at this point and I would be shocked to see it rebound under him.

 

[Jpripper88]

That's fair. But we have been looking up at the other ACC schools since we entered the league as far as recruiting goes.

And believe me, I am not defending Stallings anymore. This program is a sunk ship at this point and I would be shocked to see it rebound under him.

I'm not sure where we are disagreeing. I contend a class of Golden, Bey, and Kingsby would be a below average to, at best, average ACC recruiting class. That is not dependent on the current roster or anything other than what a single year's class would be ranked in comparison to our ACC competition.

The fact the roster is terrible of course should make the situation our program is in look worse, but just on the class I think that is where it would stand.