Yes but the next step needs to be taken. Eventually Pitt needs to get to the 30-35 range. After a few years of that then the 25-30 range, then 20-25 range. personally I set the ceiling in that 20-25 range with a few top 15 years here and there. I am not expecting to get their tomorrow, but their 10 year plan should be the 20-25 range by 2029.
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Yes but the next step needs to be taken. Eventually Pitt needs to get to the 30-35 range. After a few years of that then the 25-30 range, then 20-25 range. personally I set the ceiling in that 20-25 range with a few top 15 years here and there. I am not expecting to get their tomorrow, but their 10 year plan should be the 20-25 range by 2029.
The point is, we don't know if this class will be like the #29 class Narduzzi had his first year or the #50 class he had this past year. I don't care who you are, it's too early to tell. Pitt is not a blueblood that is going to land all the top recruits early.
That's fine.
But this staff has to be able to land the local guys that seem willing to go to Pitt. You can't let a 4* guy from Pittsburgh who had Pitt as his dream school, and had received a CB for Pitt, go to Michigan.
If you aren't landing those kinds of recruits, what hope do you have with the rest? This isn't like some 4* from out of state that didn't know anything about Pitt and was predisposed to stay in his geographic area. This was the kind of hand every staff wishes to be dealt, and they still lost it. That's a problem.
these overall class rankings are a tad silly to get worked up over but, it's what we do here so going by this as some sort of measuring stick, i'll expect pitt to be in the 25-35 range..
Some of the better Walt classes were in mid 30s, a few of them were higher. Graham's class was an abortion, CHryst had one class at 35, his other two were in the high 40s.
So that leaves us with Wanny, he had 3 classes in the 20's, pretty good for pitt. I know you guys hate to admit this but Narduzzi is the second best recruiter we've had dating back to Gottried-Golden Panther days.. In a nutshell, we need him to duplicate Wanny's recruiting classes but be a better coaching staff. That's our realistic goal..
It's not "him", not alone anyway. It's Pitt.
Just like its not Dabo alone, or Saban alone, or Franklin alone.
The school has to aligned and complicit in the goals and necessary tactics to achieve them.
Narduzzi (and Capel) are certainly willing, since they've been part of successful programs. Obviously Pitt is not.
Maybe to its credit. Maybe to its blame. Definitely to its guaranteed failure, or should I say impossibility of success.
Assuming "Narduzzi" following your narrative fails to get into Wanny territory of recruiting rankings, as you say ... noting it as the high water mark of the last 35 years (pitiful in itself) ... and in fact what if the rankings drop, as is the trend? What should be done? Grin and bear the relentless 4-8 records likely to follow and dream of the 6-6 we used to get? Fire him for another well regarded assistant? With the same dingleberries in charge with their same naive limitations that guarantee failure?
Forget Narduzzi. If Capel, a truly dynamic recruiter, is struggling here, it pretty much slams the gavel: Cheating is rampant in major college sports; Pitt doesn't allow enough if it; Cheating doesn't guarantee success; but, not cheating pretty much does guarantee failure.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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Your quote was "if i expect 20's" I never said that. You seem to be ok with the way things are and have a well its the best we can do. If your not happy with the results then say so. I for one am not and will continue to voice my displeasure here and where it really hurts with my wallet , which if this year doesn't produce 9 wins will be the last time the University get a dime from me and that will be the first time I haven't donated significant amount since '88
Well....since 1988 we’ve had two 9 Win seasons and one 10 Win season.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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Exactly which is why I'm just about done. I see regression no progression. However, I have always said this was the year that I would base my financial commitment on.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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In addition. I hope that I am soooo wrong about this staff and I will gladly eat crow and grab beers if he proves me wrong.
Same here, but allow me to gently correct again, it isn't Narduzzi or his staff alone, it's Pitt.
Narduzzi is well regarded as a coach and many of the assistants are probably, well, if not all well regarded, they are a step above Matt House anyway.
Duz has shown enthusiasm in recruiting and his players appear to love him... once they do commit and arrive.
Ive argued before, and quite convincingly (for anyone with an open and competent mind) that Narduzzi would fare close to Dabo or Saban or especially Meyer or Franklin at their schools, if all else were equal. It's the whole package, totally aligned, that facilitates success at those places.
We've had duds and douchbag coaches for sure in the past and failure was almost entirely on them.
He's not one of those.
He's in a place where they are making him operate with one arm and leg tied behind his back.
Narduzzi does not seem to have much of a recruiting personality, and does not seem to have much passion for it either. He’s made some pretty concerning comments about recruiting before that indicate a lack of taste for it.
Pitt can't compete on the recruiting trail with better programs and there are a large number of better programs. That is why we are a .500 program at best since the 80's. The only answer is to turn mediocre recruits into good players and good players into better teams and better teams into enough wins to build a bigger fan base and better culture around the program.
Maybe lately that's true, but I think it's out of frustration. Just like Capel is feeling already, as indicated from his interviews early this week.
The first couple years, he was very enthusiastic about it. Almost to a fault... giddy tweets galore, some Harbaugh like stunts, etc.
And in another school, that enthusiasm likely would have been reciprocated by boosters willing to line pockets and a compliant admin ... and good results. Not here.
But, as I wrote earlier today, this is not new, so he nor Capel should be surprised.
Narduzzi isn’t someone that had much of a reputation on the trail at Michigan State. Maybe an eye for diamonds in the rough. But in terms of a closer or personality, he isn’t somebody that recruiting gurus went around saying, “watch him when he gets to a bigger school.”
That’s largely continued here.
Wannys most impressive recruits imo were Sheard, Romeus, Mick, and AD.
If we landed those guys today, people would bitch because they'd all be 2 and 3 star recruits.
If we landed those guys today, people would bitch because they'd all be 2 and 3 star recruits.
The mental gymnastics people are doing.
"Hey, sometimes a 2* recruit hits. So nobody should complain about Narduzzi being unable to land a 4* recruit in his backyard that grew up dreaming to play for Pitt."
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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And there is a reason for that. He has ZERO personality, is somewhat stand-offish and really isn't that good of a closer. Yes he has had
"limited" success but his hit rate on the Big name players is poor. You will never convince me that ALMOST EVERY big time recruits thinks the exact same thing when it comes to Pitt. Dream school and they go elsewhere.
Then they weren't his most impressive recruits. You contradicted yourself in knots with one of the most stupid posts of all time.
Good news. I am not sure I should share this, but I have on some good authority that Pitt is allowing the handing out of the following perk for top recruits if Narduzzi thinks it will help close them. But they only authorized 12 of them.
We just won the Coastal Division, so I’m not sure how that is regression. Stagnation would be a better argument.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
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If you don't think this program is regressing, you can keep your head in the sand and keep telling yourself all is well. That mythical Coastal title is a National joke and clearly has had little effect on recruits thoughts. Give that damn Coastal argument a rest.
Winning the coastal was a good thing no doubt.
Which was more than thwarted by 3 successive losses, two of which were bludgeonings in all sense of the word, the other a bowl loss (again).
Yea, nothing more infuriating than attributing the poor recruiting on inherent deficiencies with Pitt as opposed to the coaching staff. Truth is when Pitt had great coaches they successfully recruited the best of the best!
Tough to recruit well anywhere when a staff has poor recruiters and a program which hasn’t done squat since 1981
And my point is, every year about this time we’re concerned about the level of player that our program is able to attract, and every year the on-field results validate those concerns.
If and when recruiting improves, the on-field results are likely to as well. What good is the occasional under-recruited 2 star player that blows up and turns into an all-American when most of the otter players around him play more or less at or below the level of their offer sheets/recruiting profiles?
Let’s put it this way-when posters are trying to get themselves and others excited about a Hez Trahan, Thomas MacVittie, etc when they commit, you know out recruiting isn’t cutting it.
We saw this principle in full force and effect with basketball as well.
Absolutely no question that we need to recruit better.
No question that it looks on paper like recruiting dropped off to a significant degree last season (although we'll see over time how that class turns out).
Two of the best ways to improve recruiting are: 1) Hire better recruiters ..... I think Narduzzi has tried to do that with his hires of Partridge, Collins, and Beatty over the last 1-3 years ..... will have to see if that works for the better .... there are a couple other coaches who may need to be replaced by better recruiters also ..... 2) Winning more games would improve recruiting ...... the defense looks like it will be good this season and the strength of the team (Bates after a period of adjustment last year looks like an improvement over Conklin IMO), special teams has the potential to be good, and of course, the offense will likely determine our upside to number of wins next season ...... the QB and OL play are the biggest question marks to me and hopefully Whipple and Borbely can get the offense to play at a higher level because if they do, we could win more games next year and contend for the Coastal again all of which should help recruiting.
If recruiting doesn't get better and wins don't increase, I'm not sure how long Narduzzi will last at Pitt.
No question that it looks on paper like recruiting dropped off to a significant degree last season (although we'll see over time how that class turns out).
Two of the best ways to improve recruiting are: 1) Hire better recruiters ..... I think Narduzzi has tried to do that with his hires of Partridge, Collins, and Beatty over the last 1-3 years ..... will have to see if that works for the better .... there are a couple other coaches who may need to be replaced by better recruiters also ..... 2) Winning more games would improve recruiting ...... the defense looks like it will be good this season and the strength of the team (Bates after a period of adjustment last year looks like an improvement over Conklin IMO), special teams has the potential to be good, and of course, the offense will likely determine our upside to number of wins next season ...... the QB and OL play are the biggest question marks to me and hopefully Whipple and Borbely can get the offense to play at a higher level because if they do, we could win more games next year and contend for the Coastal again all of which should help recruiting.
If recruiting doesn't get better and wins don't increase, I'm not sure how long Narduzzi will last at Pitt.
3 conference play of the year kids, 1 who's been a starter in the NFL for a very long time, 1 is a 1st ballot hofer, etc.
Who were better?
I'm sure you'll mention shady. Remember, shady doesn't even sniff pitt if joepa doesn't pull his offer.
Who were better?
How can people look at the results we have gotten lately and think this staff has some magic eye for diamonds in the rough? We are coming off two straight 7 loss years. Narduzzi does not deserve the benefit of the doubt on 2 and 3 stars.
He wanted to go to USC, but then he got hurt and they backed off. He was initially a verbal to Miami. Larry Johnson was trying to get him to switch even after he verballed to Pitt.
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Maybe I’m remembering this wrong, but I thought McCoy had ended up deciding on USC before he broke his leg?
I had thought at the beginning he had little interest in either Pitt or PSU.
Here's how you know that story is BS.....because Anthony Morelli never would have stepped to McCoy.
I think this comment holds a lot of information in it and questions....
#1 I do think the team has found a lot of diamonds in the rough (2-3 star) Weaver, Dane Jackson, Jim Morrissey, Patrick Jones, Jason Pinnock, Saleem Brightwell.
#2. I agree with the OP this coaching staff has also not done a good job of closing the deal for local kids, but I do believe they have closed out on some top kids IE ...AJ davis (4 star), Whitehead (keeping him), Darrin Hall (4 star), Hamlin (4 star) and Keyshaun Camp (big get in my opinion), Mychale Salahuddin (4 star). The problem is when you look at this list there are 2 locals and 1 was already committed. If it was the other way around and we were landing local and not out of state I don't think the panic would be so high.
#3 Each year we have a had a lot of player get an opportunity to make NFL teams. So the recruiting isn't that bad or the development is good either way that's a plus for this staff.
#4. I don't want to start the on campus thing for the 10000 millionth time but that hurts us big time. But that aside the biggest problem to not landing these recruits is that we play bad football at times. We lose recruiting battles because we lose to UNC and Standford than close out 7-7 like you said...instead of going 9-5 with a big bowl game and a little number (1-25) next to our name.
#5 I do not believe Pitt could do better than HCPN right now....I actually like how he has improved the roster and more importantly the staff each year. If we could keep everything in place and find a passing game ....recruiting would get a LOT easier.
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