It looks like FSU is voting to challenge the GOR tomorrow

[cashisking884]

1. I'm not sure what else to take from it. You want to talk about "mental legal masturbation", there's a lot of nothing filling up the pages of FSU's suit to say "we think this isn't fair!"

2. I don't know what kind of law you practice but venue is pretty important in a corporate dispute. Remember Hertz? The ACC sort of outlined what would be necessary if this has to go to a federal court to sort out venue. So yeah, it's kind of a big deal because NC law, and a favorable judge, could complicate things for FSU pretty quickly. Honestly, I don't know how the ACC doesn't win out on venue and force FSU to sue them in NC.

1. Their argument is that the GOR isn’t valid. To say that isn’t their argument is wrong.

2. Sure, when you have a knockout venue dispute. What I originally said is when one side yawns at venue and the other doesn’t, that’s a huge red flag to me. And I gave the example of my practice, when one side is huffing and puffing and I’m yawning. Because I already know their end is a losing argument.

 

[Las Panteras]

If the ACC or Big 12 end up being the 3rd conference, is Pitt getting a seat at the table?

I think if the ACC adds a few then yes. I think the Big 12 would want Pitt WVU value.

But not guaranteed.

Your thoughts?

 

[forbesfield]

I don't see Pitt being left out. I think the population of the area alone likely guarantees it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

1. Their argument is that the GOR isn’t valid. To say that isn’t their argument is wrong.

2. Sure, when you have a knockout venue dispute. What I originally said is when one side yawns at venue and the other doesn’t, that’s a huge red flag to me. And I gave the example of my practice, when one side is huffing and puffing and I’m yawning. Because I already know their end is a losing argument.

Well, the chances of an FSU judge siding with FSU is around 95% so of course the ACC wants to move it. The ACC has very little chance of winning in Florida

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If the ACC or Big 12 end up being the 3rd conference, is Pitt getting a seat at the table?

I think if the ACC adds a few then yes. I think the Big 12 would want Pitt WVU value.

But not guaranteed.

Your thoughts?

Lol. The B12 added:

Cincinnati
UCF
Houston
BYU
A duplicate Utah team
Has talked openly about adding UConn
Has talked openly about Gonzaga basketball

Ya think they'd add Pitt? They'd add Slippery Rock and W&J if they could

 

[pittdan77]

1. Their argument is that the GOR isn’t valid. To say that isn’t their argument is wrong.

2. Sure, when you have a knockout venue dispute. What I originally said is when one side yawns at venue and the other doesn’t, that’s a huge red flag to me. And I gave the example of my practice, when one side is huffing and puffing and I’m yawning. Because I already know their end is a losing argument.

I think you're parsing words, now.

 

[mlvnsmly]

Well, the chances of an FSU judge siding with FSU is around 95% so of course the ACC wants to move it. The ACC has very little chance of winning in Florida

Thats what everyone said when Michigan got a judge that was a professor at the university to get an injunction on harbaughs suspension.

 

[cashisking884]

Well, the chances of an FSU judge siding with FSU is around 95% so of course the ACC wants to move it. The ACC has very little chance of winning in Florida

Which is my point.

A lot of people have spent a lot of timing saying this was a lock and FSU can give up the media rights and leave, but reading the ACC’s complaint, they seem a lot more scared than FSU.

 

[Las Panteras]

Lol. The B12 added:

Cincinnati
UCF
Houston
BYU
A duplicate Utah team
Has talked openly about adding UConn
Has talked openly about Gonzaga basketball

Ya think they'd add Pitt? They'd add Slippery Rock and W&J if they could

Leaving how many more spots, exactly?

The reason for my question.

 

[pittchagg]

Which is my point.

A lot of people have spent a lot of timing saying this was a lock and FSU can give up the media rights and leave, but reading the ACC’s complaint, they seem a lot more scared than FSU.

I read Florida State’s complaint as being written primarily for a media audience more than a legal one. There are a bunch of bombs thrown, gratuitous shots at the ACC and other schools in the conference, and contextless allegations that are included in the complaint almost exclusively to get stories written. The ACC’s complaint is shorter, but the reality is that it doesn’t include any of the fluff or portions that are designed for a media audience.

I read both, and came away believing that the ACC is the party who believes that they’re on the stronger legal footing.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Leaving how many more spots, exactly?

The reason for my question.

A million?

The B12 will literally take anybody. You think they have a set limit? Plus Colorado will eventually go to the B10 or SEC.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I read Florida State’s complaint as being written primarily for a media audience more than a legal one. There are a bunch of bombs thrown, gratuitous shots at the ACC and other schools in the conference, and contextless allegations that are included in the complaint almost exclusively to get stories written. The ACC’s complaint is shorter, but the reality is that it doesn’t include any of the fluff or portions that are designed for a media audience.

I read both, and came away believing that the ACC is the party who believes that they’re on the stronger legal footing.

Their bit about wanting Oregon State over Cal/Stanford because Oregon State was good this year was mind-boggling. I was like, huh? Yes, they were good this year but Stanford was a perennial Top 5 team not long ago and none of those teams have great fanbases or history. You really want to go out on a limb for Oregon State over Stanford? And its about TV viewers. Stanford/Cal could get ACCN on cable in the Bay Area.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Which is my point.

A lot of people have spent a lot of timing saying this was a lock and FSU can give up the media rights and leave, but reading the ACC’s complaint, they seem a lot more scared than FSU.

The ACC has much more to lose. It can lose itself. FSU is going to be fine in the B10 or SEC. For them, this is just about time and money.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And its about TV viewers. Stanford/Cal could get ACCN on cable in the Bay Area.

Yeah, but Oregon State is going to get you on all the cable systems in Corvallis, Oregon. And probably in Salem and Eugene too.

How can anyone pass that up?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, but Oregon State is going to get you on all the cable systems in Corvallis, Oregon. And probably in Salem and Eugene too.

How can anyone pass that up?

I mean its 84 miles from Portland and I am sure they have a good alumni base there so you can say they bring some element of the Portland market. But who cares? The CHANCE at getting on cable in the Bay Area is better than even a guarantee in Portland. Its like how can they be that stupid? Because they were slightly better than better mediocre for 1 year? I think they just made this up for the lawsuit.

 

[pittchagg]

Their bit about wanting Oregon State over Cal/Stanford because Oregon State was good this year was mind-boggling. I was like, huh? Yes, they were good this year but Stanford was a perennial Top 5 team not long ago and none of those teams have great fanbases or history. You really want to go out on a limb for Oregon State over Stanford? And its about TV viewers. Stanford/Cal could get ACCN on cable in the Bay Area.

If the ACC had added Oregon State, then the complaint would have talked about how the ACC failed by adding Oregon State when Stanford and Cal were available.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If the ACC had added Oregon State, then the complaint would have talked about how the ACC failed by adding Oregon State when Stanford and Cal were available.

Right. It makes no sense. Why would you even put that in the lawsuit? I am sure some of what FSU has in there and its a suit they will win if its in Florida but a complaint that we didnt add Oregon State. At first I saw a headline saying FSU wanted the ACC to go after other P12 teams so I naturally thought they wanted the ACC to be proactive in getting Colorado or Arizona but Oregon State? That makes them happy? Oregon State? I'd rather have Memphis, Tulane, Colorado State, UNLV, etc.

 

[USN_Panther]

Isn't the premise of the lawsuit whether the GOR is punitive? They are claiming it is restraint of commerce. But the GOR applies to all members, not just those leaving. It is indeed commerce, right? The media contractor wanted to ensure the inventory of content was secure prior to a long-term contract. The intent was securing the media inventory, not penalizing teams who leave.
This is more interesting to me than most CFB games.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Isn't the premise of the lawsuit whether the GOR is punitive? They are claiming it is restraint of commerce. But the GOR applies to all members, not just those leaving. It is indeed commerce, right? The media contractor wanted to ensure the inventory of content was secure prior to a long-term contract. The intent was securing the media inventory, not penalizing teams who leave.
This is more interesting to me than most CFB games.

Yes but FSU is saying what ESPN said they needed (long-term commitment/GOR) doesn't make what you made us sign any more legal. To use a stupid analogy, if ESPN said in order to establish a network, each university had to kill someone, that wouldn't make the murder legal. They are saying the GOR was against Florida law.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Which is my point.

A lot of people have spent a lot of timing saying this was a lock and FSU can give up the media rights and leave, but reading the ACC’s complaint, they seem a lot more scared than FSU.

Why do you think they're scared? Of course they want the venue NC, and it's really the only thing they had to file about when they did (before FSU actually filed).

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Which is my point.

A lot of people have spent a lot of timing saying this was a lock and FSU can give up the media rights and leave, but reading the ACC’s complaint, they seem a lot more scared than FSU.

The ACC doesn't have to say anything at this time, and they surely weren't going to say anything before FSU filed and at least intimated at what their position was.

 

[Hardslider21]

Yes but FSU is saying what ESPN said they needed (long-term commitment/GOR) doesn't make what you made us sign any more legal. To use a stupid analogy, if ESPN said in order to establish a network, each university had to kill someone, that wouldn't make the murder legal. They are saying the GOR was against Florida law.

I spoke with a friend the other night who is writes contracts for Coca Cola in ATL. From things he heard about this strictly from the Disney perspective.
2027 is a “look in opt” to see if contract negotiations are warranted whether the ACC has over or under performed. If it deemed to have over performed the current value then ESPN could/would be required to provide more financial support. If it’s deemed to have underperformed then it would either receive the same compensation. But if teams leave the conference it opens up another window would have to be evaluated current value. ESPN requires 15 teams in the league. So some can realistically depart and not affect that part. The problem is with the value of those remaining assets to Disney if FSU, Clumson and Carolina are determined to go all the way with legal fights.
Those legal battles will likely take 2 years minimum to get anywhere if they drag it out. ESPN/Disney has roughly 15-16 months before they have to make their decision on 2027. Don’t shoot me, I was drinking during the conversation, it was a holiday party after all. The man has written hundreds of deals thru his 24 years at Coke.

 

[pafootballguy]

If the ACC or Big 12 end up being the 3rd conference, is Pitt getting a seat at the table?

I think if the ACC adds a few then yes. I think the Big 12 would want Pitt WVU value.

But not guaranteed.

Your thoughts?

What is that seat at the table going to be worth? There are coaches openly talking about making the players employees and giving them a piece of the revenue and many in the media believe it will happen sooner rather than later so what will it really mean to be in the 3rd conference when you are 30-50 million behind in revenue.

FSU would be in a great position for the playoff every year by staying in the ACC but they are worried enough about the future to put up this fight.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I spoke with a friend the other night who is writes contracts for Coca Cola in ATL. From things he heard about this strictly from the Disney perspective.
2027 is a “look in opt” to see if contract negotiations are warranted whether the ACC has over or under performed. If it deemed to have over performed the current value then ESPN could/would be required to provide more financial support. If it’s deemed to have underperformed then it would either receive the same compensation. But if teams leave the conference it opens up another window would have to be evaluated current value. ESPN requires 15 teams in the league. So some can realistically depart and not affect that part. The problem is with the value of those remaining assets to Disney if FSU, Clumson and Carolina are determined to go all the way with legal fights.
Those legal battles will likely take 2 years minimum to get anywhere if they drag it out. ESPN/Disney has roughly 15-16 months before they have to make their decision on 2027. Don’t shoot me, I was drinking during the conversation, it was a holiday party after all. The man has written hundreds of deals thru his 24 years at Coke.

Yea, I dont think its that the contract basically ends in 2027 and ESPN can decide whether to renew or not. That is what FSU would have you believe. The ACC said there would be these look-in periods to see if any more money could be generated.

The other thing, I dont think the ACC is in danger of getting less money. FSU even said as part of their argument that it doesnt hurt the ACC if they leave because ESPN is paying the same for SMU, Cal, and Stanford

 

[Houclone4]

What is that seat at the table going to be worth? There are coaches openly talking about making the players employees and giving them a piece of the revenue and many in the media believe it will happen sooner rather than later so what will it really mean to be in the 3rd conference when you are 30-50 million behind in revenue.

FSU would be in a great position for the playoff every year by staying in the ACC but they are worried enough about the future to put up this fight.

True but better than $50-$70 million behind (Oregon State, Washington State, G5).

 

[Houclone4]

Leaving how many more spots, exactly?

The reason for my question.

4 spots. I expect conferences not to go more than 20. I expect North Carolina and FSU will be out. With the close approximation to WVU and Cincy, as well as the rivalry with WVU, Pittsburgh maybe #1 on the Big 12's list, no joke. If adding only 1 more after Pittsburgh, NC State, VA Tech, Miami, Louisville I would say ahead of Clemson (yes, no typo), Duke, Virginia, and others. If adding 4, then Clemson would be #1 or #2 on the list to add.

Though less than 1% influence, cherry on top for Pittsburgh is wrestling in the top high school wrestling state.

 

[pittdan77]

I think FSU will have to amend their lawsuit claiming that the ACC schools are colluding to embarrass themselves in bowl games to weaken FSU's claim that they were jobbed by the CFP.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think FSU will have to amend their lawsuit claiming that the ACC schools are colluding to embarrass themselves in bowl games to weaken FSU's claim that they were jobbed by the CFP.

I was thinking UGa might win this 55-0

 

[cashisking884]

The ACC doesn't have to say anything at this time, and they surely weren't going to say anything before FSU filed and at least intimated at what their position was.

The ACC’s filing is their case. It’s not an answer where you can just put in a general denial.

 

[Manster]

Lol. The B12 added:

Cincinnati
UCF
Houston
BYU
A duplicate Utah team
Has talked openly about adding UConn
Has talked openly about Gonzaga basketball

Ya think they'd add Pitt? They'd add Slippery Rock and W&J if they could

Sadly for SMF, there is no fix for stupid. The guy hasn't posted anything accurate since the birth of this Rivals board.

 

[cashisking884]

Yea, I dont think its that the contract basically ends in 2027 and ESPN can decide whether to renew or not. That is what FSU would have you believe. The ACC said there would be these look-in periods to see if any more money could be generated.

The other thing, I dont think the ACC is in danger of getting less money. FSU even said as part of their argument that it doesnt hurt the ACC if they leave because ESPN is paying the same for SMU, Cal, and Stanford

Seeing the ACC tv contract with ESPN would be interesting.

It doesn’t seem as if there is any mandatory negotiation period or mandatory readjusting of compensation period.
The entire issue here for these schools seems to be how bad of a contract the ACC is locked into for the life of the contract. That’s not an issue if in 2027 the “look in” period requires a mandatory upping in value.
According to FSU’s complaint, the below market rate is locked in as well.
So I don’t buy the dude from Coke’s assessment. It doesn’t make sense within the context of the current fight. He’s maybe discussing it from what a rational company would do. Which actually gives credence to FSU’s breach of duty claims I guess?

And there isn’t much evidence that it can go the other way either, and I can’t imagine the ACC would agree to such a thing.

So the look-in period only makes sense as a window where some party has the ability to exercise some kind of right. But I’m still not sure what the ACC’s conception of that right is if it’s not for ESPN to get out of a bad deal? Because there’s been zero evidence from any school or conference that it’s a right to get more money from ESPN.

 

[cashisking884]

Yes but FSU is saying what ESPN said they needed (long-term commitment/GOR) doesn't make what you made us sign any more legal. To use a stupid analogy, if ESPN said in order to establish a network, each university had to kill someone, that wouldn't make the murder legal. They are saying the GOR was against Florida law.

Right. Too many people believe the good intentions of the GOR somehow means something.

It’s 100% irrelevant.

The only legal issues are:

1. Was the damage to the ACC by any one team leaving far too difficult to calculate?
2. Was the specific performance the GOR required a reasonable reflection of the damages?

The good intentions argument people are actually playing into FSU’s argument. “ESPN required the ACC to put in a provision that was so nuclear in its punishment it guaranteed no team could ever leave, thereby giving the ACC the network it wanted” is not a response to FSU. It’s FSU’s entire legal argument.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I was thinking UGa might win this 55-0

I missed by 5 points. Darn.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The ACC’s filing is their case. It’s not an answer where you can just put in a general denial.

And what do you think the lawsuit should have said when they filed it before FSU did?

It's pretty clear. FSU signed GOR, it's valid, helped everyone, case should be in NC.

FSU's pages of fluff don't add anything to their argument. They want a media circus, and they're getting laughed at right now.

 

[cashisking884]

And what do you think the lawsuit should have said when they filed it before FSU did?

It's pretty clear. FSU signed GOR, it's valid, helped everyone, case should be in NC.

FSU's pages of fluff don't add anything to their argument. They want a media circus, and they're getting laughed at right now.

Laughed at by who?

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Laughed at by who?

Everyone, for looking like Duquesne in their bowl game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Everyone, for looking like Duquesne in their bowl game.

You love to see it