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Living in his fears

Fk_Pitt said:
1) honor his father
2) make money
3) you act like incompetence isn’t in play here.

How much does he make from concessions each game and what is he risking if he gets 10-15,000 no shows for a couple games after thanksgiving?

He’s overpaying his head coach, killing his brand, and losing home playoff game revenue.

There are long term repercussions for short term vision.

A good businessman should realize this. Rooney doesn’t. He inherited an elite brand and is risking watering down that brand for the next heir.

Aside from Bill Nunn’s brilliance which was a competitive advantage for the Steelers, The 70’s dynasty was born out of 60’s sucking. Without that period of suck, there’s no Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw or Free Meal Franco. Without a 6-10 season 25 years ago, there is no Ben and no 5th and 6th Lombardi.
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Why do folks care at all how much the HC is paid ?
We don’t get a cut .

If you think the Steelers “brand” is worse - you don’t seem to recognize how national it is .

The total gameday revenue from tickets , concessions , parking , and team stores is about 35% of total Revenue .
Which ranks about 15th in the NFL.

I don’t think he’s going to give a crap about less concessions sales - since tickets and parking are all Pre-sold .
 
Fk_Pitt said:
1) honor his father
2) make money
3) you act like incompetence isn’t in play here.

How much does he make from concessions each game and what is he risking if he gets 10-15,000 no shows for a couple games after thanksgiving?

He’s overpaying his head coach, killing his brand, and losing home playoff game revenue.

There are long term repercussions for short term vision.

A good businessman should realize this. Rooney doesn’t. He inherited an elite brand and is risking watering down that brand for the next heir.

Aside from Bill Nunn’s brilliance which was a competitive advantage for the Steelers, The 70’s dynasty was born out of 60’s sucking. Without that period of suck, there’s no Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw or Free Meal Franco. Without a 6-10 season 25 years ago, there is no Ben and no 5th and 6th Lombardi.
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Art 2 is a Tier 1 nepo baby. Stunningly mediocre and no vision.

He's not intelligent or perceptive enough to realize that the game has changed. And he refuses to hire people who think that way. So from the top down, the organization keeps giving the same answer - defense and run the bawl - but they don't realize that they're answering the wrong question.
 
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lilspainishflea said:
Art 2 is a Tier 1 nepo baby. Stunningly mediocre and no vision.

He's not intelligent or perceptive enough to realize that the game has changed. And he refuses to hire people who think that way. So from the top down, the organization keeps giving the same answer - defense and run the bawl - but they don't realize that they're answering the wrong question.
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Seems to work for Philly .
The bills lost to the Chiefs mostly because they got away Cook running wild . He was averaging 6.5YPC but only got 13 rushes

America is a nepo baby country .
 
Fk_Pitt said:
1) honor his father
2) make money
3) you act like incompetence isn’t in play here.

How much does he make from concessions each game and what is he risking if he gets 10-15,000 no shows for a couple games after thanksgiving?

He’s overpaying his head coach, killing his brand, and losing home playoff game revenue.

There are long term repercussions for short term vision.

A good businessman should realize this. Rooney doesn’t. He inherited an elite brand and is risking watering down that brand for the next heir.

Aside from Bill Nunn’s brilliance which was a competitive advantage for the Steelers, The 70’s dynasty was born out of 60’s sucking. Without that period of suck, there’s no Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw or Free Meal Franco. Without a 6-10 season 25 years ago, there is no Ben and no 5th and 6th Lombardi.
Click to expand...
Jason Mackey had an interesting article today outlining the 4 finalists in the NFL and especially the Eagles who won a SB, fired a coach, had a 4 win season and now are in back to back Super Bowls. Or Buffalo sucking and getting Allen or KC moving up to 10 to get Mahomes or the Commanders totally sucking and drafting Jalen Daniels #2 overall. That is not "living in your fears". Finishing one game or so over .500, losing 8 playoff games in a row, only having 3 playoff wins in over 10 years, and not demanding coaching changes is truly living in your fears.
 
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ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
Jason Mackey had an interesting article today outlining the 4 finalists in the NFL and especially the Eagles who won a SB, fired a coach, had a 4 win season and now are in back to back Super Bowls. Or Buffalo sucking and getting Allen or KC moving up to 10 to get Mahomes or the Commanders totally sucking and drafting Jalen Daniels #2 overall. That is not "living in your fears". Finishing one game or so over .500, losing 8 playoff games in a row, only having 3 playoff wins in over 10 years, and not demanding coaching changes is truly living in your fears.
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Yeah. I suspect Rooneys issue is

1. The national media things Tomlin walks on water. I’m sure he’s concerned with the backlash associated with canning the alledged HOF coach. It’s not unlike sticking with a legendary player well past his prime

2. It’s not like they’re awful. So I’m sure he fears that moving on could make things worse and of course there’s always that risk How many times have we heard the “you could do a lot worse than Duzz or Wanny” in this board.

3. I’m sure he and Tomlin both think that they are just a few tweaks away from being a legit contender. Sometimes when you’re on the inside you can’t see what others outside see more clearly

4. And yes he’s still raking in cash Hard to make wholesale changes when the cash register is still ringing

But the reality is even the national media is starting to notice. Fans are pissed. It may not be this year or next but the Brand is slowly eroding I suspect just like the pens he’s going to ride this thing until is crashes under its own weight.
 
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pittbb80 said:
Yeah. I suspect Rooneys issue is

1. The national media things Tomlin walks on water. I’m sure he’s concerned with the backlash associated with canning the alledged HOF coach. It’s not unlike sticking with a legendary player well past his prime

2. It’s not like they’re awful. So I’m sure he fears that moving on could make things worse and of course there’s always that risk How many times have we heard the “you could do a lot worse than Duzz or Wanny” in this board.

3. I’m sure he and Tomlin both think that they are just a few tweaks away from being a legit contender. Sometimes when you’re on the inside you can’t see what others outside see more clearly

4. And yes he’s still raking in cash Hard to make wholesale changes when the cash register is still ringing

But the reality is even the national media is starting to notice. Fans are pissed. It may not be this year or next but the Brand is slowly eroding I suspect just like the pens he’s going to ride this thing until is crashes under its own weight.
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National media has nothing to do with Rooney being change averse .
He is no different than his dad or brother that way .
Dan actually authorized firing a coordinator mid season for a change
 
PittPharm2002 said:
Seems to work for Philly .
The bills lost to the Chiefs mostly because they got away Cook running wild . He was averaging 6.5YPC but only got 13 rushes

America is a nepo baby country .
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The run game works for good teams because they're good teams. They have good scouting, good scheme, and good development.

It doesn't work for the Steelers because they largely lack those things.
 
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lilspainishflea said:
The run game works for good teams because they're good teams. They have good scouting, good scheme, and good development.

It doesn't work for the Steelers because they largely lack those things.
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I agree
so what are the wrong questions being asked by Rooney ?

Steelers owners aren’t unique
They are all risk averse - even the pill popping bad tweeter !
 
Case in point - the eagles GM is a eagles lifer who’s been the GM since 2010
The owner has been the same since 94.
The KC GM followed Reid from Philly to be an analyst before moving up and being promoted .

The answer isn’t always somewhere else

But the front office hasn’t been successful for a decade
Kahn at least is drafting well .
 
ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
Jason Mackey had an interesting article today outlining the 4 finalists in the NFL and especially the Eagles who won a SB, fired a coach, had a 4 win season and now are in back to back Super Bowls. Or Buffalo sucking and getting Allen or KC moving up to 10 to get Mahomes or the Commanders totally sucking and drafting Jalen Daniels #2 overall. That is not "living in your fears". Finishing one game or so over .500, losing 8 playoff games in a row, only having 3 playoff wins in over 10 years, and not demanding coaching changes is truly living in your fears.
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Well it’s Tomlin’s motto though. Not Rooney’s. Maybe Rooney’s biggest fear is dishonoring his father. I dunno.

But I have a friend who strongly feels like the non losing season thing is important to Tomlin more than anything. I never believed that. But you do have to wonder if he’s afraid to tear it down.
 
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Fk_Pitt said:
Well it’s Tomlin’s motto though. Not Rooney’s. Maybe Rooney’s biggest fear is dishonoring his father. I dunno.

But I have a friend who strongly feels like the non losing season thing is important to Tomlin more than anything. I never believed that. But you do have to wonder if he’s afraid to tear it down.
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In fairness , which coach is not afraid of losing seasons ?!?
 
PittPharm2002 said:
Case in point - the eagles GM is a eagles lifer who’s been the GM since 2010
The owner has been the same since 94.
The KC GM followed Reid from Philly to be an analyst before moving up and being promoted .

The answer isn’t always somewhere else

But the front office hasn’t been successful for a decade
Kahn at least is drafting well .
Click to expand...
Man, I think I need to stop replying to you. I don't know if you can't operate in good faith or what but this isn't productive.

The last thing I'm going to say seem to be pointing the finger at literally everyone else (it's now the former GM) except Tomlin...even assuming that Tomlin can't win without good players, he had an extremely stacked roster from 2011-2018. We're talking dozens of Pro Bowl seasons combined, multiple Hall of Famers, and most of those guys solidly in their prime. Where were the Super Bowl wins? The Conference Championships? The big time playoff performances?

He went 3-4 in the playoffs during that span and some of the wins were extremely suspect (Vontaze Burfict game, Alex Smith Chiefs, Matt Moore Dolphins). So it could have been even worse if we had to play the Ravens and Patriots more often in that span. I just don't get how, to you, none of that falls on Tomlin. Nothing does.

Even granting your point that the owner and GM are partially responsible for the issues in recent years, Tomlin has to bear some responsibility with really underachieving for almost a decade with possibly the best roster in football. That you can't seem to say that has convinced me that I'm just wasting my time with you and so I don't really have any choice but to send your one-sided thoughts to the shadow realm.
 
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lilspainishflea said:
Man, I think I need to stop replying to you. I don't know if you can't operate in good faith or what but this isn't productive.

The last thing I'm going to say seem to be pointing the finger at literally everyone else (it's now the former GM) except Tomlin...even assuming that Tomlin can't win without good players, he had an extremely stacked roster from 2011-2018. We're talking dozens of Pro Bowl seasons combined, multiple Hall of Famers, and most of those guys solidly in their prime. Where were the Super Bowl wins? The Conference Championships? The big time playoff performances?

He went 3-4 in the playoffs during that span and some of the wins were extremely suspect (Vontaze Burfict game, Alex Smith Chiefs, Matt Moore Dolphins). So it could have been even worse if we had to play the Ravens and Patriots more often in that span. I just don't get how, to you, none of that falls on Tomlin. Nothing does.

Even granting your point that the owner and GM are partially responsible for the issues in recent years, Tomlin has to bear some responsibility with really underachieving for almost a decade with possibly the best roster in football. That you can't seem to say that has convinced me that I'm just wasting my time with you and so I don't really have any choice but to send your one-sided thoughts to the shadow realm.
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You’ve learned what 100’s of others here have learned. Good faith prohibits Souf from having a good time. He sucks us all in from time to time.
 
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pittbb80 said:
Yeah. I suspect Rooneys issue is

1. The national media things Tomlin walks on water. I’m sure he’s concerned with the backlash associated with canning the alledged HOF coach. It’s not unlike sticking with a legendary player well past his prime

2. It’s not like they’re awful. So I’m sure he fears that moving on could make things worse and of course there’s always that risk How many times have we heard the “you could do a lot worse than Duzz or Wanny” in this board.

3. I’m sure he and Tomlin both think that they are just a few tweaks away from being a legit contender. Sometimes when you’re on the inside you can’t see what others outside see more clearly

4. And yes he’s still raking in cash Hard to make wholesale changes when the cash register is still ringing

But the reality is even the national media is starting to notice. Fans are pissed. It may not be this year or next but the Brand is slowly eroding I suspect just like the pens he’s going to ride this thing until is crashes under its own weight.
Click to expand...
But they aren't even making tweaks. I just found out not only did the Steelers not score a TD on their opening drive all season, they gave up the most points in the 1st quarter in the NFL. So....I mean what the hell is the coaching staff doing? That is where they script plays from all week? 131-14 in the 1st quarter of the last 6 playoff games. I am sorry, this directly reflects on Mike Tomlin and his preparing the team to play football.

It is not working.
 
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lilspainishflea said:
Man, I think I need to stop replying to you. I don't know if you can't operate in good faith or what but this isn't productive.

The last thing I'm going to say seem to be pointing the finger at literally everyone else (it's now the former GM) except Tomlin...even assuming that Tomlin can't win without good players, he had an extremely stacked roster from 2011-2018. We're talking dozens of Pro Bowl seasons combined, multiple Hall of Famers, and most of those guys solidly in their prime. Where were the Super Bowl wins? The Conference Championships? The big time playoff performances?

He went 3-4 in the playoffs during that span and some of the wins were extremely suspect (Vontaze Burfict game, Alex Smith Chiefs, Matt Moore Dolphins). So it could have been even worse if we had to play the Ravens and Patriots more often in that span. I just don't get how, to you, none of that falls on Tomlin. Nothing does.

Even granting your point that the owner and GM are partially responsible for the issues in recent years, Tomlin has to bear some responsibility with really underachieving for almost a decade with possibly the best roster in football. That you can't seem to say that has convinced me that I'm just wasting my time with you and so I don't really have any choice but to send your one-sided thoughts to the shadow realm.
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The owner and GM can make the coaching change
I give nfl coaches only the credit and blame they deserve . Game prep and in game adjustments.
I don’t ascribe certain ones to semi-god status who controls the entire talent acquisition and drafting strategy .


successful teams have checks and balances for that exact reason .
 
ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
But they aren't even making tweaks. I just found out not only did the Steelers not score a TD on their opening drive all season, they gave up the most points in the 1st quarter in the NFL. So....I mean what the hell is the coaching staff doing? That is where they script plays from all week? 131-14 in the 1st quarter of the last 6 playoff games. I am sorry, this directly reflects on Mike Tomlin and his preparing the team to play football.

It is not working.
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That’s a game planning issue for sure - that’s very fair criticism!
They were also maybe the best 3rd quarter team - so clearly adjustments weren’t the main problem .
 
ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
But they aren't even making tweaks. I just found out not only did the Steelers not score a TD on their opening drive all season, they gave up the most points in the 1st quarter in the NFL. So....I mean what the hell is the coaching staff doing? That is where they script plays from all week? 131-14 in the 1st quarter of the last 6 playoff games. I am sorry, this directly reflects on Mike Tomlin and his preparing the team to play football.

It is not working.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I was referring to personnel and coaching changes and no so much scheme.

Watch the hires / changes they make to the staff this offseason to determine whether its more of the same, especially at DC. If they change the DC at all, it will be with a guy who continues the conservative approach.
 
pittbb80 said:
Agreed. I was referring to personnel and coaching changes and no so much scheme.

Watch the hires / changes they make to the staff this offseason to determine whether its more of the same, especially at DC. If they change the DC at all, it will be with a guy who continues the conservative approach.
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If those coaches are still under contract - they're not getting moved.
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
Raven just added a 12th defensive coach , former HC .

Steelers have 7 and Art says we don’t need more staff .
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Like a dummy I’ve been participating in these Tomlin/Rooney discussions without realizing Tomlin’s full contractual situation.

I’ll pivot to the belief that the only reason Tomlin still has a job here is that Rooney doesn’t want to be on the hook for 45 million dollars.
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
I mean
The goal isn’t a playoff win is it ?
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Not for most of us…but simpletons put more value into non losing season streaks…

Which by the way contains 3 non winning seasons…

And the mother of all seasons, which is the post season, where Mike T hasn’t been competitive in a decade and has a losing record. So there’s that.

There are guys out of football, or on NFL teams staffs as “consultants” who have won playoff games as head coaches since Tomlin last won one.
 
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ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
Ok I will say it. You are calling people criticizing Tomlin racist. You piece of effing shit. You are pathetic. Loser.
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If that’s what you read into them you’re an effing moron. And since you broached the subject, if the hood fits, wear it.

I find it hilarious that the same fans who cried for years that Pitt needed stability in its head football coaching position, can’t see that the owner of their favorite big league team also craves stability. That 50 something old little boys pout so much over an overachieving football team also amuses me. None of us expected a ten win season. Crying because there was no playoff success is what’s pathetic.

But again, it was you, judge, who just came out of the closet. Own it.
 
jtownknowitall said:
If that’s what you read into them you’re an effing moron. And since you broached the subject, if the hood fits, wear it.

I find it hilarious that the same fans who cried for years that Pitt needed stability in its head football coaching position, can’t see that the owner of their favorite big league team also craves stability. That 50 something old little boys pout so much over an overachieving football team also amuses me. None of us expected a ten win season. Crying because there was no playoff success is what’s pathetic.

But again, it was you, judge, who just came out of the closet. Own it.
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You’re weird.

Cowher had criticism
Walt had criticism
Wanny had criticism
Pederson had criticism
Jamie had criticism
Barnes had criticism
Stallings had criticism
Heather had criticism
Nardummy has criticism
Sullivan has criticism
Shelton gets criticism
Rooney has criticism
Nutting has criticism
I could name more…

And Tomlin gets criticism and it’s racism!!!!

#ragingLunacy
 
I wish I was a Charger fan. They won a playoff game in 2018!

Bill Cowher could still be coaching the Steelers today if he wanted to. Even if he had gone these last 19 years without winning another championship.
 
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