Louisville Game at the Pete & Other Dribbles ...

[DT_PITT]

** I’m very disappointed, of course, but not nearly as discouraged as I’ve been.

** Tonight, the Panthers most often played like a team who wanted to win, which hasn’t always been the case in some of our losses this year, not to mention in even some of our wins.

** For most of the game, there was enough effort, enough toughness, enough execution and enough defense. For most of the game.

** Well, for the first 32 minutes anyway.

** But the last 8 minutes was a different story. And those last 8 minutes ended up telling the whole story.

** So I’ll focus on that first 32 minutes for now. In the middle of that view was Ryan Luther, on both ends of the court.

** Allow me to quote the Zoo. "RYAN LUTHER! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!"

** What remains to be seen is what happens with Ryan going forward. Did Dixon find something in Ryan, was this just the right matchup, or was he just playing out of his mind?

** I’m going to hope it’s the first of those options, because if we can make use of Ryan, maybe that will help Mike get back on track.

** Plain and simply, Mike needs to be better than he was tonight.

** At least he was better defensively than he’s been, but he wasn’t what his team needed offensively in this big game.

** Maybe the bigger problem than Mike was Sheldon Jeter, who is now completely off of his game on both ends of the court.

** Regardless, the Panthers were able to go trip for trip, punch for punch with the Cards for almost all of the game, and even made a big steal to go on the fast break in when the previously superhuman Ryan let what was probably a layup slip through his hands. A killer.

** Then back down on the defensive end, the Panthers overplayed Onuaku in the middle leaving a wide open three and that was your ballgame.

** I’ll leave it at that for the night. This team has three more chances to prove it belongs in the NCAA Tournament.

** I’ve seen enough to believe that we might be able to do it. But I’ve also seen enough to worry that they can’t.

 

[drgags]

Mike Young, the poor young man is a mess right now. Actually a liability. I hope he finds himself. Needs to take a page out of Ryan's book and forget about being a "superstar" and play basketball and hustle.

 

[UPitt '89]

Don't disagree with anything you typed.

Pitt was good enough to compete with Louisville tonight.

But not SMART enough..... both in the players on the court, and the coach on the sidelines.

Unfortunately, we can't improve our BB IQ at this late date. But we CAN play the players, including Luther, who have higher BB IQs than the teammates they are replacing.

I'm tired of stupid play. I'm tired of talented players like Artis and Young CONTINUALLY making poor decisions.

Mike Young has the god-given athletic ability and DNA to be an all-ACC first team player. But he's dumb and selfish. He is NOT being the best player he can be... not even close.

And that's a shame.

 

[whirlybird optio]

I'm not sure what road games against non-NCAA teams do to prove you are an NCAA team. Maybe it will be enough because the bubble is bad or whatever, but if we have 1 win over a team solidly in the field, at this point, we basically have an entire season that has so far proved we are not an NCAA team. We lose to NCAA teams. Even at home.

Also, plain and simple, Mike young is a selfish, selfish player who is more concerned with flexing after dunks than playing hard. I really love how he does that thing where he thinks he gets fouled, but because he missed the shot so bad he has to pretend like he's hurt, when he's clearly not. He did it again in the second half. The team will be better when he isn't on it.

 

[DT_PITT]

Don't disagree with anything you typed.

Pitt was good enough to compete with Louisville tonight.

But not SMART enough..... both in the players on the court, and the coach on the sidelines.

Unfortunately, we can't improve our BB IQ at this late date. But we CAN play the players, including Luther, who have higher BB IQs than the teammates they are replacing.

I'm tired of stupid play. I'm tired of talented players like Artis and Young CONTINUALLY making poor decisions.

Mike Young has the god-given athletic ability and DNA to be an all-ACC first team player. But he's dumb and selfish. He is NOT being the best player he can be... not even close.

And that's a shame.

Perhaps stronger language than I would use, but generally speaking, I don't disagree with your premise. Mike needs to play smarter.

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

I find it amazing how we've went from players like Chevy , Biggs , Blair , Gary , Nas who all had such heart and tenacity to guys like Mike Young who's main concern is to go 1 on 1 every possession and play no defense ...really sad to watch sometimes

 

[whirlybird optio]

I find it amazing how we've went from players like Chevy , Biggs , Blair , Gary , Nas who all had such heart and tenacity to guys like Mike Young who's main concern is to go 1 on 1 every possession and play no defense ...really sad to watch sometimes

I would trade any of those for mike. Any of them. In a second. And this team would be better

 

[gary2]

** I’m very disappointed, of course, but not nearly as discouraged as I’ve been.

** Tonight, the Panthers most often played like a team who wanted to win, which hasn’t always been the case in some of our losses this year, not to mention in even some of our wins.

** For most of the game, there was enough effort, enough toughness, enough execution and enough defense. For most of the game.

** Well, for the first 32 minutes anyway.

** But the last 8 minutes was a different story. And those last 8 minutes ended up telling the whole story.

** So I’ll focus on that first 32 minutes for now. In the middle of that view was Ryan Luther, on both ends of the court.

** Allow me to quote the Zoo. "RYAN LUTHER! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!"

** What remains to be seen is what happens with Ryan going forward. Did Dixon find something in Ryan, was this just the right matchup, or was he just playing out of his mind?

** I’m going to hope it’s the first of those options, because if we can make use of Ryan, maybe that will help Mike get back on track.

** Plain and simply, Mike needs to be better than he was tonight.

** At least he was better defensively than he’s been, but he wasn’t what his team needed offensively in this big game.

** Maybe the bigger problem than Mike was Sheldon Jeter, who is now completely off of his game on both ends of the court.

** Regardless, the Panthers were able to go trip for trip, punch for punch with the Cards for almost all of the game, and even made a big steal to go on the fast break in when the previously superhuman Ryan let what was probably a layup slip through his hands. A killer.

** Then back down on the defensive end, the Panthers overplayed Onuaku in the middle leaving a wide open three and that was much your ballgame.

** I’ll leave it at that for the night. This team has three more chances to prove it belongs in the NCAA Tournament.

** I’ve seen enough to believe that we might be able to do it. But I’ve also seen enough to worry that they can’t.

I do not know who made the pass to Luther, but I think it was a poor pass for two reasons:

1) I do not think it was delivered very well

2) One needs to realize who one is throwing the ball to and what that person would be required to do upon catching the ball. I do not like our chances of Luther catching that ball on the run and converting a layup at full speed.

DT - who made the pass and who was available on the other wing? - I don't remember

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

I do not know who made the pass to Luther, but I think it was a poor pass for two reasons:

1) I do not think it was delivered very well

2) One needs to realize who one is throwing the ball to and what that person would be required to do upon catching the ball. I do not like our chances of Luther catching that ball on the run and converting a layup at full speed.

DT - who made the pass and who was available on the other wing? - I don't remember

Chris jones

 

[DT_PITT]

I do not know who made the pass to Luther, but I think it was a poor pass for two reasons:

1) I do not think it was delivered very well

2) One needs to realize who one is throwing the ball to and what that person would be required to do upon catching the ball. I do not like our chances of Luther catching that ball on the run and converting a layup at full speed.

DT - who made the pass and who was available on the other wing? - I don't remember

It was Chris Jones and the pass was delivered right into his hands and it just slipped out of his hands. It was the correct pass and Ryan just didn't make the play. Watch the replay. I already have.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I believe it was Jones who threw the pass.

On your second point, if one of your big is running the break and he's in a situation where all he has to do is catch a simple pass for a dunk then you have to throw that pass. Have to. If you are playing a guy who can't catch a simple pass and dunk the ball without the need to dribble or handle the ball at all then that guy simply should not be on the court.

 

[UPitt '89]

I believe it was Jones who threw the pass.

On your second point, if one of your big is running the break and he's in a situation where all he has to do is catch a simple pass for a dunk then you have to throw that pass. Have to. If you are playing a guy who can't catch a simple pass and dunk the ball without the need to dribble or handle the ball at all then that guy simply should not be on the court.

It was frankly the only mistake Luther made all night.

And Chris Jones made the right decision... can't fault him for that... but the pass was slightly low. Luther still should've had it, but it was a little difficult for a 6'8" guy to catch when it was at the knees at full speed.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

It was Chris Jones and the pass was delivered right into his hands and it just slipped out of his hands. It was the correct pass and Ryan just didn't make the play. Watch the replay. I already have.

I said the same thing in the game thread.
But, you know .... Some hate Chris same way some hate james.

 

[DT_PITT]

I believe it was Jones who threw the pass.

On your second point, if one of your big is running the break and he's in a situation where all he has to do is catch a simple pass for a dunk then you have to throw that pass. Have to. If you are playing a guy who can't catch a simple pass and dunk the ball without the need to dribble or handle the ball at all then that guy simply should not be on the court.

Ryan played really, really well. But it was a pass that had to be thrown and should have been caught and should have been a layup.

Still, Ryan was wonderful this evening, and we wouldn't have even been near the position to take the lead there if it wasn't for him.

 

[DT_PITT]

It was frankly the only mistake Luther made all night.

And Chris Jones made the right decision... can't fault him for that... but the pass was slightly low. Luther still should've had it, but it was a little difficult for a 6'8" guy to catch when it was at the knees at full speed.

Pass was at his waist.

 

[gary2]

It was Chris Jones and the pass was delivered right into his hands and it just slipped out of his hands. It was the correct pass and Ryan just didn't make the play. Watch the replay. I already have.

OK - Thanks

 

[PittPoker]

DT I would love to know your thoughts on taking Luther out of the game when we were up by 8 and Louisville had a full time out. That changed the whole momentum.

 

[DT_PITT]

DT I would love to know your thoughts on taking Luther out of the game when we were up by 8 and Louisville had a full time out. That changed the whole momentum.

It looked to me that he needed to come out, but I might have gone back to him a little sooner. I look at it this way, though. There are other guys on this team who are probably better players than Ryan and when they go in, they need to do the job. Instead, the player who went in for Ryan let Adel drive right by him for a nasty slam.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It looked to me that he needed to come out, but I might have gone back to him a little sooner. I look at it this way, though. There are other guys on this team who are probably better players than Ryan and when they go in, they need to do the job. Instead, the player who went in for Ryan let Adel drive right by him for a nasty slam.

He was out for three possessions.

 

[PittPoker]

He was out for three possessions.

That's 4 too many.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

He was out for three possessions.

Momentum

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

One other thing on the fast break and passing it to Luther. I am a firm believer that when the big guys run the break and you have a chance to get them the ball for an easy basket you need to get them the ball. If you want your big guys to run the break (and you DO want your big guys running the break) then you have to reward them for doing it. When a big runs the break and is open for an easy basket you pass them the ball. Not sometimes. Not occasionally. You pass them the ball.

 

[We_All_We_Got]

Always appreciate the dribbles, DT - thanks!

The Luther lay-up coupled with the Robinson missed lay-up towards the end of the game would have put us within two, fouling for the chance to tie the game.

It is a shame - the team did not play perfect tonight, but they played with energy and the crowd showed up big. The win was in their grasp, and as such I hope this loss does not demoralize them. Winning all three of these next games is very possible - they are still alive for the big dance!

 

[gary2]

It looked to me that he needed to come out, but I might have gone back to him a little sooner. I look at it this way, though. There are other guys on this team who are probably better players than Ryan and when they go in, they need to do the job. Instead, the player who went in for Ryan let Adel drive right by him for a nasty slam.

Jamie should have put Maia back in.

 

[We_All_We_Got]

That's 4 too many.

lol

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Just something to consider. Had Luther not been taken out there he would have been on the court for almost 17 consecutive minutes in the second half. Just a guess on my part, but he probably hasn't played anywhere close to 17 consecutive minutes in any game since he's been at Pitt.

I don't know if this was the case or not, but sometimes guys need a blow.

 

[iMissTheOldDays]

I don't know if this was the case or not, but sometimes guys need a blow.

That's what she said

 

[UPitt '89]

He was out for three possessions.

Five. I looked at the box score.

And the score went from 48-40 Pitt to 51-50 Louisville during those five possessions. An 11-2 Louisville run with him on the bench.

Ironically, when he returned, Pitt scored on 4 consecutive possessions and the score was tied 58-58. Then his one mistake of the night, a mishandled pass from Chris Jones on a break.

 

[UPitt '89]

Just something to consider. Had Luther not been taken out there he would have been on the court for almost 17 consecutive minutes in the second half. Just a guess on my part, but he probably hasn't played anywhere close to 17 consecutive minutes in any game since he's been at Pitt.

I don't know if this was the case or not, but sometimes guys need a blow.

That's false.

He didn't play the first roughly 4 minutes of the second half.... and was taken out with 7 minutes to go. That means he was in for roughly 9 minutes consecutively at that point. And had a 3-minute TV timeout to "get a blow".

 

[PittPoker]

Just something to consider. Had Luther not been taken out there he would have been on the court for almost 17 consecutive minutes in the second half. Just a guess on my part, but he probably hasn't played anywhere close to 17 consecutive minutes in any game since he's been at Pitt.

I don't know if this was the case or not, but sometimes guys need a blow.

You're forgetting the full timeout.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Five. I looked at the box score.

And the score went from 48-40 Pitt to 51-50 Louisville during those five possessions. An 11-2 Louisville run with him on the bench.

Ironically, when he returned, Pitt scored on 4 consecutive possessions and the score was tied 58-58. Then his one mistake of the night, a mishandled pass from Chris Jones on a break.

From the official game stats:

TIMEOUT 30sec 08:16
SUB IN : Michael Young 08:16
SUB IN : Jamel Artis 08:16
SUB OUT: Cameron Johnson 08:16
SUB OUT: Ryan Luther 08:16
SUB OUT: Sheldon Jeter 08:16

POSSESSION ONE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 07:54
FOUL by Jamel Artis (P1T4) 07:54
07:38 48-45 H 3 GOOD! DUNK by Deng Adel [PNT]

POSSESSION TWO:
MISSED JUMPER by Chris Jones 07:15 BLOCK by Chinanu Onuaku
07:15 REBOUND (DEF) by Chinanu Onuaku
FOUL by Chris Jones (P3T5) 07:13
06:53 48-48 T 5 GOOD! 3 PTR by David Levitch
06:53 ASSIST by Quentin Snider

POSSESSION THREE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 06:32
06:27 TURNOVR by Quentin Snider
SUB IN : Ryan Luther 06:27

And for the record, the first three that made it 48-43 happened with Luther still on the court.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

From the official game stats:

TIMEOUT 30sec 08:16
SUB IN : Michael Young 08:16
SUB IN : Jamel Artis 08:16
SUB OUT: Cameron Johnson 08:16
SUB OUT: Ryan Luther 08:16
SUB OUT: Sheldon Jeter 08:16

POSSESSION ONE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 07:54
FOUL by Jamel Artis (P1T4) 07:54
07:38 48-45 H 3 GOOD! DUNK by Deng Adel [PNT]

POSSESSION TWO:
MISSED JUMPER by Chris Jones 07:15 BLOCK by Chinanu Onuaku
07:15 REBOUND (DEF) by Chinanu Onuaku
FOUL by Chris Jones (P3T5) 07:13
06:53 48-48 T 5 GOOD! 3 PTR by David Levitch
06:53 ASSIST by Quentin Snider

POSSESSION THREE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 06:32
06:27 TURNOVR by Quentin Snider
SUB IN : Ryan Luther 06:27

And for the record, the first three that made it 48-43 happened with Luther still on the court.

Shots fired

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That's false.

He didn't play the first roughly 4 minutes of the second half.... and was taken out with 7 minutes to go. That means he was in for roughly 9 minutes consecutively at that point. And had a 3-minute TV timeout to "get a blow".

No, it's not false. You just simply misunderstand. If Luther didn't get taken out at the 8:16 mark he would have been in the game from the 16:53 mark until there were 19 seconds left in the game. That would have been 16:34 consecutive on the court. Unless you think they should have left him in at 8:16 but then taken him out a minute or two later? I suppose that could be it, but it would be awfully odd given what you have posted so far.

 

[UPitt '89]

From the official game stats:

TIMEOUT 30sec 08:16
SUB IN : Michael Young 08:16
SUB IN : Jamel Artis 08:16
SUB OUT: Cameron Johnson 08:16
SUB OUT: Ryan Luther 08:16
SUB OUT: Sheldon Jeter 08:16

POSSESSION ONE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 07:54
FOUL by Jamel Artis (P1T4) 07:54
07:38 48-45 H 3 GOOD! DUNK by Deng Adel [PNT]

POSSESSION TWO:
MISSED JUMPER by Chris Jones 07:15 BLOCK by Chinanu Onuaku
07:15 REBOUND (DEF) by Chinanu Onuaku
FOUL by Chris Jones (P3T5) 07:13
06:53 48-48 T 5 GOOD! 3 PTR by David Levitch
06:53 ASSIST by Quentin Snider

POSSESSION THREE:
TURNOVR by Jamel Artis 06:32
06:27 TURNOVR by Quentin Snider
SUB IN : Ryan Luther 06:27

And for the record, the first three that made it 48-43 happened with Luther still on the court.

I'd question the accuracy of any report that shows 3 Pitt players leaving the game at 8:16 and only 2 Pitt players coming in.

As far as I can tell, Pitt didn't spend any time with only 4 players on the court.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

No, it's not false. You just simply misunderstand. If Luther didn't get taken out at the 8:16 mark he would have been in the game from the 16:53 mark until there were 19 seconds left in the game. That would have been 16:34 consecutive on the court. Unless you think they should have left him in at 8:16 but then taken him out a minute or two later? I suppose that could be it, but it would be awfully odd given what you have posted so far.

Oops

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You're forgetting the full timeout.

Who's forgetting the full timeout? He was on the court when they took the called media full timeout in the second half, and then the full under 16 timeout, and then the full under 12 timeout. He was taken out when Pitt called the timeout that became the under 8 timeout (even though it wasn't quite under 8 yet). Who doesn't understand that?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'd question the accuracy of any report that shows 3 Pitt players leaving the game at 8:16 and only 2 Pitt players coming in.

As far as I can tell, Pitt didn't spend any time with only 4 players on the court.

Good one. That might be what I'd go with if I were you and I was confronted with the fact that I was wrong too.

 

[UPitt '89]

No, it's not false. You just simply misunderstand. If Luther didn't get taken out at the 8:16 mark he would have been in the game from the 16:53 mark until there were 19 seconds left in the game. That would have been 16:34 consecutive on the court. Unless you think they should have left him in at 8:16 but then taken him out a minute or two later? I suppose that could be it, but it would be awfully odd given what you have posted so far.

So he was taken out after being in the game for 8:37. Included in the 8:37 was

- the under 16 TV timeout
- the under 12 TV timeout
- the Louisville full TV timeout with 8:16 left.

So he had *THREE* rests of at least 2 minutes.

This isn't soccer with a continuous running clock and no rests. He played 8 and a half minutes and had at least 6 minutes of rest during that time. If you want to argue that he couldn't have stayed in and "needed a blow", I will disagree every time.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

By the way, the funny thing is that you said he was out for five possessions and yet the fifth possession after he left the game was actually a Ryan Luther layup at 5:24. So what you are saying is that Ryan Luther scored a basket when he wasn't even in the game.

Perhaps the NCAA ought to investigate how that happened.

 

[PittPoker]

Good one. That might be what I'd go with if I were you and I was confronted with the fact that I was wrong too.

He's not wrong. We all noticed the momentum shift when Luther was taken out. What are you referring to?