Maybe Kenny Pickett wasn’t the issue

[Fk_Pitt]

Y

I don't know why you're arguing against points that I didn't originally make. Did Kingsbury call plays in the NFL before being hired to call plays for a rookie QB? No...argument over. That's literally the only point I made, I didn't make an argument as to his abilities or college success. The OP made a statement about how ridiculous it is for Pittsburgh to hire someone to call plays that never did so before in the NFL. I feel like I just told someone the Earth isn't flat and you jumped in to argue how Jupiter is cooler looking.

But sure, I'm bored today and not much is happening for work so let's play this out.

Where you going with those goalposts bruh? Would you like me to quote where you called him a "successful college Head Coach"? Is getting fired after 3 straight losing seasons what you would classify as a successful college head coach? Did I say anything about his defenses? Did you say he called the offense successfully at Texas Tech, or did you claim he was a successful Head Coach? I'm confused, am I supposed to be reading what you write or should I just wait until you decide later what point you're making?

Also, saying he went from college HC to NFL HC as your proof of success. Well Canada went from a college OC to an NFL OC, so I guess that's also success. "But hey," you say, "Matt Canada got fired and had to take an offensive assistant job before he became an NFL OC." Kingsbury spent a year as an "Offensive Analyst".


Kenny started one game without Canada against the 28th ranked passing defense. Sure he had a good game, but one game isn't a baseline, it's a data point. But remind me how many Touchdowns Kenny had in this incredible, breakout performance?
Mason started one game with Canada as OC. He had 242 yards with 1 TD 1 INT.
In the 3 games he started without Canada he averaged 239 yards and 1 TD.
This season as a starter Rudolph is averaging 229 yards 1.5 TDs and 1.5 INT.
Wait...let's go back to 2019 before Canada. Rudolph started and finished 7 games. He averaged 239 yards, 1.7 TDs and 1.2 INTs.


This might have been my most unfair criticism and I'll move the goalpost myself a little, because I did not make my point clearly. But if Pickett had been in the 2021 Draft Class or the 2023 Draft Class I doubt he'd have graded out in the 1st round. I also do blame Colbert and the organization for picking him, but I was excited that they did. I wanted to see him be successful as a Steeler.

I don't blame him at all for his performance, he was in a bad situation. He was stuck with a bad hand, but he ran away at his first opportunity to do so and save face. When the Steelers brought in the former All-Pro veteran, who showed he was eager to mentor and compete with Pickett, he ran. I thank him for this time at Pitt and hope he makes a ton of money and does well in the NFL, but he ran.

You’re right. Matt Canada is their equal.

My lord.

Tecmo bowl had a more expansive playbook than Canada.

 

[Wanstash21]

Y

You’re right. Matt Canada is their equal.

My lord.

Tecmo bowl had a more expansive playbook than Canada.

guy wants to cite the Bengals game lol Kenny had a redzone drive end because dropson didn't dive on the ball and dropson also dropped a TD pass.

1 td taken away. Another drive inside the 10 taken away. all because of #18.

 

[pbrad]

If 133 passing yards and 1 TD pass in the first half is shaping up as the best game of his career, maybe he was the problem.

I'd take that any game you are up by 17 at the half. He did what they asked him to do.

 

[pbrad]

That hypothetical doesn’t really work because Kenny requested a trade after the Steelers signed Wilson to the vet minimum. So it would be, would you rather have Wilson and Pickett or Wilson and Fields?

I loved Wison Pickett.

 

[PittFanDan17]

I think come 2-3 years, Eagles fans will be saying “how did he get this guy for ONLY a third?” Look at baker and darnold this season. He’ll be tearing up the league for 7+ years

 

[Pittisit4me]

With Tomlin, Arthur Smith or Canada, and our offensive talent, I don't think Pat Mahomes or Joe Burrow would look good if they were the Steeler QB. It's hard to believe people would condemn Kenny after being handcuffed like that. The Steelers like to build with defense sadly, and it is older and sucks. They have shown for years that offense is 2nd fiddle to defense, I guess they thought one first round QB should fix years of neglecting that side of the ball. Kenny is a genius to remove himself from this dead-end franchise, even if he is never a starter again.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

Kenny had a really nice game but the only thing people will remember is one of the most embarrassing plays by a qb this year as he tackled himself faking a throw. That’s the replay I keep seeing

Really???? You see what you want to see.

Do anything to win:' Despite broken ribs, Kenny Pickett leads Eagles past Cowboys​

Steelers Changes: George Pickens Move? Kenny Pickett Mistake?​

Eagles 41, Cowboys 7: Player of the Game

It isn’t easy to win with a backup quarterback. Kenny Pickett made it look easy as he did an excellent job taking care of the ball, made some elite throws and moved the Eagles up-and-down the field.

If the Eagles have to go to Pickett in the playoffs they should have plenty of confidence he could get the job
done

Guess these didn't pop up on your ole interweb search huh??? Some of you all try so hard. The man got 💩 on for over a year. Just give it up. He looks better with real coaching and a better team around him. For what it's worth he probably would have looked better in Pittsburgh too but they wanted Russ...ok cool 😎.

 

[CJsE]

With Tomlin, Arthur Smith or Canada, and our offensive talent, I don't think Pat Mahomes or Joe Burrow would look good if they were the Steeler QB. It's hard to believe people would condemn Kenny after being handcuffed like that. The Steelers like to build with defense sadly, and it is older and sucks. They have shown for years that offense is 2nd fiddle to defense, I guess they thought one first round QB should fix years of neglecting that side of the ball. Kenny is a genius to remove himself from this dead-end franchise, even if he is never a starter again.

Yeah, it's crazy that all they drafted was a quarterback.

But for fun, let's take a look at their early draft picks by round over the past 4 drafts.

1st Round Picks = 100% Offense
-Najee RB
-Pickett QB
-Broderick Jones OL
-Troy Fautanu OL

2nd Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Freiermuth TE
-Pickens WR
-Zach Frazier OL

3rd Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Kendrick Green OL
-Darnell Washington TE
-Roman Wilson WR

4th Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Dan Moore OL
-Calvin Austin III WR
-Mason McCormick OL

It's almost like they are focusing on fixing the offense.

 

[djbpitt]

If 133 passing yards and 1 TD pass in the first half is shaping up as the best game of his career, maybe he was the problem.

Pretty solid for playing with broken ribs.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's almost like they are focusing on fixing the offense.

Spoiler alert, it did not work.

 

[Burgh15]

Spoiler alert, it did not work.

Points per game:
2022 - 18.1
2023 - 17.8
2024 - 22.7

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Points per game:
2022 - 18.1
2023 - 17.8
2024 - 22.7

Is that improvement due to the players they drafted, or is there perhaps a different reason that the offense got better?

I mean you listed 13 players there. There isn't one elite player at their position on the list. There are only what, maybe three of them that are good (above average) NFL players at their position. Several of those guys are no longer here or have never really done anything here due to injury.

The fact is that that list of players is an awful haul (at this point) for four years worth of draft picks. If Fautanu and Wilson come back from their injuries and turn into high level players (a pretty good chance for one of them, no so much for the other) and McCormick ends up a good long term solution at guard that still isn't a very good return on that many high picks over that amount of time.

 

[Burgh15]

Is that improvement due to the players they drafted, or is there perhaps a different reason that the offense got better?

I mean you listed 13 players there. There isn't one elite player at their position on the list. There are only what, maybe three of them that are good (above average) NFL players at their position. Several of those guys are no longer here or have never really done anything here due to injury.

The fact is that that list of players is an awful haul (at this point) for four years worth of draft picks. If Fautanu and Wilson come back from their injuries and turn into high level players (a pretty good chance for one of them, no so much for the other) and McCormick ends up a good long term solution at guard that still isn't a very good return on that many high picks over that amount of time.

I was just showing the numbers.

Tomlin does not know how to manage or build an NFL offense. That's clear. This team has to stick with a veteran QB because they are incapable of developing a young one.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I was just showing the numbers.

Numbers without context are meaningless.

 

[CJsE]

Spoiler alert, it did not work.

Don't disagree with really anything you said, just the other poster's claim that they weren't trying anything to fix it other than drafting Pickett. It's pretty clear that they have been putting a ton of focus on that. Maybe if the offensive line didn't get decimated by week 3, there would have been an improvement.

 

[boseman7]

Lol, yeah Herbert hit the plateau, which is why he's having arguably his best year of his career with an offensive line that makes Pittsburgh's look like All-Pros. I wish the Steelers could get a QB that hit his plateau at 3,500 yards, 20+ TDs, 3 INTs, and a 99.9 Passer Rating.

Say what you want about the other two, but both of them are easily top half of the league QBs and probably scored more Touchdowns in their first 8 games than Kenny had in two years.

You can also add Joe Burrow to that list (sorta). They hired a Head Coach, who is also their play caller, that only called plays for 1 month in the NFL as the QB Coach after both his Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator were fired, leaving him to call plays for the Dolphins during the month of December. He also hired an Offensive Coordinator that has zero play calling experience in the NFL to work under him.

My point was that the Steelers bringing in a fresh play caller for a rookie QB is basically the norm right now in the NFL. Teams are hiring semi-successful Offensive Coordinators as Head Coaches as fast as they can be produced. So almost every team is looking for that fresh, new OC that had some success in college or as a Passing Game Coordinator under some young offensive Head Coach.

QB play is the worst it’s ever been in the NFL. Numbers are inflated due to the rules but most of these qb’s against competent defenses can’t read a defense and it shows up against playoff caliber teams.

 

[boseman7]

Kingsbury went from college HC to NFL HC. That's success. His teams were prolific on offense (top 10 in scoring twice) and literally dead last in points allowed. But he was hired specifically to mentor Kyler and call plays for the Cardinals. He was good at both things. Kyler got extended and the Cardinals had good offenses. So your point that his defenses at Texas Tech sucked has no bearing for this conversation.

"System starter" is literally where QBs picked 22nd go. Hell, it's where QBs picked 12th go. Guys drafted in the top 5 are so talented they are expected to elevate the entire infrastructure. Nobody - not even his defenders - thought Kenny was that guy. But as we saw in the 6 quarters without Canada and in the two games in Philly, Kenny was a better player than most perceive him to be. It's unfortunate that he was saddled with the literal worst OC in modern NFL history, a WR1 that literally nobody in the NFL seems to want, and an offensive line that saw 4/5 of it replaced over Kenny's two seasons.

Are you being obtuse about the baselines? Kenny's and Mason's baseline are the post-Canada Steelers. They literally played in the exact same environment except minus Canada. Both played much better.

Kenny was not a 3rd or 4th round QB flier. He had plus tools and was graded as a 1st round pick by all major scouting services that I saw, including the NFL and ESPN. Moreover, to the extent that he was overdrafted by 2-3 rounds, again that's on the Steelers - a multi-billion dollar organization constantly held up as the gold standard for the entire league - and not on him.

I don't even know what your last point is about. I literally can't even understand it or how it relates to this conversation.

Overall, you're way off base here. Idk if you can't be objective about Kenny or you just don't know much about football but your facts and analysis are both really lacking. The Steelers put themselves in a terrible situation post-Ben. They drafted terribly (Najee and Pat F especially), hired terribly, put their franchise QB in a terrible scheme (and he was still the best QB on the roster by W/L and if you only look at his post-Canada numbers he played evenly with Mason) and then chased him out of town for two retreads who proceeded to turn in the exact same kind of season they gave up on Kenny for (with maybe a charity win against the lowly Texans to finally break Tomlin's decade long playoff win drought). Neither of those guys are even signed for 2025. There's a very good chance they give 36 year old Russell Wilson $35 million per year to keep this Hospice charade going for two more seasons. It's laughable at this point.

You get it. There is a way to be able to draft quarterbacks and set them up to be successful. It’s why you only hire OCs from guys who are working under offenses that have been proven to work. It’s why McVay, and Shannahan, keep getting guys hired. The Steelers haven’t done that since Todd Haley before hiring Arthur Smith. Even though i think Kyle Shanahan and Arthur Smith’s offenses are overrated at least there is some track record. The Bengals coach had multiple stints has a play caller before he even got to the Rams with McVay. You know football knows that you draft a quarterback based on the scheme that you run. If you don’t know what type of scheme that you have, you don’t know what type of quarterback that you need. It’s why every year teams keep drafting quarterbacks because most front office types are too dumb to realize that the generational QB types are rare (Marino, Brady, Manning, Rothlisberger) that can run any system.

 

[Pitt79]

Kenny was OK, but yeah, Tomlin with the encouragement of Rooney, runs the most regressive, obsolete, most poorly constructed and most poorly staffed offense, with the most backward philosophy and most gutless play calling and poorest play design in the entire NFL with the absolute least ability to develop a QB, Ben showed up as a natural, but anyone who needs to develop in the modern NFL game won't get coached up by this senile franchise.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I’ve been accused here as recently as last week as being Kenny’s biggest cheerleader here. So I’ll say it again. I’m not a cheerleader at all…just not shocked at all to see him excel now for two straight weeks, when he has good coaching, good OL, two #1 receivers and an all pro RB. And when healthy, he will continue to excel there…because he’s at a legit place and it’s not a dumpster fire like Pittsburgh….which was always the argument.

Hate to say I told some of you so, but I told you so. He’s a QB who Philly fans know they can win playoff games with if they need him to.

 

[TD_6082]

Dallas is 28th in total yards, 31st in points allowed. And their season is over.

Kenny Pickett is a mediocre NFL QB, at best. Love the guy and what he did at Pitt. For an NFL QB though, he's just not very good.

 

[303vND]

Dallas is 28th in total yards, 31st in points allowed. And their season is over.

Kenny Pickett is a mediocre NFL QB, at best. Love the guy and what he did at Pitt. For an NFL QB though, he's just not very good.

And he did what he needed to do - and looked good doing it. You can keep pushing the mediocre NFL QB narrative, but that's 85 percent of the league.

 

[TD_6082]

And he did what he needed to do - and looked good doing it. You can keep pushing the mediocre NFL QB narrative, but that's 85 percent of the league.

I didn't think he looked particularly good Sunday. Perhaps good for low expectations. Philly has receivers who can make plays out of not particularly well placed balls. Kenny looked like a competent backup, which is probably his place in the NFL. Just my opinion.

 

[PittInMissouri]

Dallas is 28th in total yards, 31st in points allowed. And their season is over.

Kenny Pickett is a mediocre NFL QB, at best. Love the guy and what he did at Pitt. For an NFL QB though, he's just not very good.

I’m in Philly and watched the last two weeks. He’s had a few mistakes and the self sack wasn’t a good look, but he’s played really well overall. He did enough to win last week and had them in great position this week before the ribs were too much

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I didn't think he looked particularly good Sunday. Perhaps good for low expectations. Philly has receivers who can make plays out of not particularly well placed balls. Kenny looked like a competent backup, which is probably his place in the NFL. Just my opinion.

Haha. Dude had a 120 rating as it was and would have had a perfect 158.3 if his receiver doesn’t get tackled 4 inches short of the goal line on one TD pass and if his lineman doesn’t get called for a hold on another. All with broken ribs.

I’ve never seen a QB get scrutinized the way he does.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

Dallas is 28th in total yards, 31st in points allowed. And their season is over.

Kenny Pickett is a mediocre NFL QB, at best. Love the guy and what he did at Pitt. For an NFL QB though, he's just not very good.

Context matters. The Cowboys defense has been playing lights out recently causing multiple turnovers and they just beat a good Tampa team in Tampa the previous week. Stop the nonsense. He played really well against a team that is a hated rival and delivered the goods with broken ribs. Some of you want to be right so bad that you cherry pick information to fit your narrative......some of you should run for president 🤣.

 

[TD_6082]

Haha. Dude had a 120 rating as it was and would have had a perfect 158.3 if his receiver doesn’t get tackled 4 inches short of the goal line on one TD pass and if his lineman doesn’t get called for a hold on another. All with broken ribs.

I’ve never seen a QB get scrutinized the way he does.

He was 10/15 for 143 yards, 1 TD. Tits McKee was 3/4 with 54 yds and 2 TDs. They were playing the Cowboys.

Pickett was 14/24 yds for 143, 1 TD & 1 TD the week before.

It is what it is. I'm not trashing the guy. He's just not that good. Hurts is getting his job back as soon as he's out of protocol, and fwiw, I'm not a big fan of JH as a franchise QB.

 

[TD_6082]

Context matters. The Cowboys defense has been playing lights out recently causing multiple turnovers and they just beat a good Tampa team in Tampa the previous week. Stop the nonsense. He played really well against a team that is a hated rival and delivered the goods with broken ribs. Some of you want to be right so bad that you cherry pick information to fit your narrative......some of you should run for president 🤣.

Yes, context matters. The Cowboys being eliminated would be significant in putting this game in context don't you think? That's a fairly big development, imo.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

He was 10/15 for 143 yards, 1 TD. Tits McKee was 3/4 with 54 yds and 2 TDs. They were playing the Cowboys.

Pickett was 14/24 yds for 143, 1 TD & 1 TD the week before.

It is what it is. I'm not trashing the guy. He's just not that good. Hurts is getting his job back as soon as he's out of protocol, and fwiw, I'm not a big fan of JH as a franchise QB.

Say what your what but you’re wrong about the two weeks cited. Can’t really play much better than he did Sunday. His rating proves it. And last week he receivers dropped 4 balls for almost 100 yards.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think come 2-3 years, Eagles fans will be saying “how did he get this guy for ONLY a third?” Look at baker and darnold this season. He’ll be tearing up the league for 7+ years

That's not really accurate. It was:

Eagles get
Pickett
Steelers 4th round pick

Steelers get
Eagles 3rd Round pick
2 7th Round picks

So the Eagles got Pickett for 2 7th Rounders plus swapping 3rd/4th Round picks with the Steelers. So, essentially, they got him for 2 7th Rounders, who could have easily been undradfted free agents. Inotherwords, they got him for free.

 

[TD_6082]

Say what your what but you’re wrong about the two weeks cited. Can’t really play much better than he did Sunday. His rating proves it. And last week he receivers dropped 4 balls for almost 100 yards.

Wrong? I just gave stats. There's always going to be outliers like drops on well placed throws, or less than ideal placed throws , or bad throws where the receiver makes a catch.

Glad to see Pickett doing well, but he is little more than a mediocre NFL QB at best, imo.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Wrong? I just gave stats. There's always going to be outliers like drops on well placed throws, or less than ideal placed throws , or bad throws where the receiver makes a catch.

Glad to see Pickett doing well, but he is little more than a mediocre NFL QB at best, imo.

Right. He did play well and glad you acknowledge it. And he will continue to play well in that offense. Which is the point.

Maybe he is mediocre. I sure don’t miss him in Pittsburgh. But he’s a guy you can win with, especially a team with weapons like Philly.

Oh…and before Pittsburgh, Hurts threw for 110 yards in two straight games. Minimizing Kenny’s performance the past two weeks reeks of agenda or those influenced by agenda.

 

[pittbb80]

I’m in Philly and watched the last two weeks. He’s had a few mistakes and the self sack wasn’t a good look, but he’s played really well overall. He did enough to win last week and had them in great position this week before the ribs were too much

When you look at the replay the defender caught his arm. It wasn’t a self sack

 

[TD_6082]

Right. He did play well and glad you acknowledge it. And he will continue to play well in that offense. Which is the point.

Maybe he is mediocre. I sure don’t miss him in Pittsburgh. But he’s a guy you can win with, especially a team with weapons like Philly.

Oh…and before Pittsburgh, Hurts threw for 110 yards in two straight games. Minimizing Kenny’s performance the past two weeks reeks of agenda or those influenced by agenda.

Yeah. You're not going to find me cheerleading for Hurts either. Not a fan. Eagles are stacked tho.

 

[pittbb80]

Again I don’t think anyone defending Picket is making the argument that he’s much better than a mediocre qb. The general argument is that it’s hard to truly assess his play given the dumpster fire around him

He may stink or he may be a serviceable NFL Qb. Even the short stint on Philly doesn’t prove anything one way or another More data is needed to truly assess how good or bad he is

Eveyone thought Darnold was a bum.

 

[DruidTM]

In other news Tony the Tiger bowl is exciting again this year.

Lville vs Washington

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

He was 10/15 for 143 yards, 1 TD. Tits McKee was 3/4 with 54 yds and 2 TDs. They were playing the Cowboys.

Pickett was 14/24 yds for 143, 1 TD & 1 TD the week before.

It is what it is. I'm not trashing the guy. He's just not that good. Hurts is getting his job back as soon as he's out of protocol, and fwiw, I'm not a big fan of JH as a franchise QB.

Either you didn't watch the game or your an idiot. I believe it's the former. Mckee came in with a 20 point lead. He didn't do anything special. Barkley had like 43 yards rushing in the first half when Pickett did the heavy lifting. He finished with close to 170 on the ground. Tanner was a hand off machine and was the recipient of a broken Cowboy team. Kenny won that game period.

 

[Pitt2009]

Either you didn't watch the game or your an idiot. I believe it's the former. Mckee came in with a 20 point lead. He didn't do anything special. Barkley had like 43 yards rushing in the first half when Pickett did the heavy lifting. He finished with close to 170 on the ground. Tanner was a hand off machine and was the recipient of a broken Cowboy team. Kenny won that game period.

What? The Eagles forced 3 turnovers in the first half, returned one for a touchdown and got good field possession on the other two. Kenny fumbled and nearly threw 2 interceptions (Dallas straight up dropped the ball). Now I’m not saying Kenny didn’t play well, but to imply the Eagles won because of him is silly.

 

[boseman7]

Yeah, it's crazy that all they drafted was a quarterback.

But for fun, let's take a look at their early draft picks by round over the past 4 drafts.

1st Round Picks = 100% Offense
-Najee RB
-Pickett QB
-Broderick Jones OL
-Troy Fautanu OL

2nd Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Freiermuth TE
-Pickens WR
-Zach Frazier OL

3rd Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Kendrick Green OL
-Darnell Washington TE
-Roman Wilson WR

4th Round Picks = 60% Offense
-Dan Moore OL
-Calvin Austin III WR
-Mason McCormick OL

It's almost like they are focusing on fixing the offense.

My issue is this…….to fix an offense you fix the scheme first. Then when you draft you know what type of players best fit in your offense instead of making them fit into your scheme that they don’t fit into ( Dotson, Green, Pickett,) only to find out if you had the scheme right you could’ve evaluated properly. Mike Tomlin has NOT established an offensive identity and scheme that the organization can properly draft to. That’s the issue

 

[CJsE]

When you look at the replay the defender caught his arm. It wasn’t a self sack

Can't people just leave a guy alone for practicing his cartwheels?

 

[pittbb80]

Can't people just leave a guy alone for practicing his cartwheels?

View embedded media

Like I said the defender grabbed his arm. It’s not as bad as the haters make it out to be

Benz who is no fan of KP had the video am article he posted Monday