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OT: Active shooter(s) on the loose after mass shooting in San Bernadino....

Darth_VadEER said:
A quick unofficial Google search shows Germany has a little over 1.0/per 100k firearm related death and the United States has nearly 11.0/per 100k.
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I will reiterate, using your words "grown up" - if you think Germany is more grown up than the US, I would suggest moving there. And I do feel very qualified saying this as I worked for a German company for years and my husband coincidentally works for another.
 
pitt-girl said:
I will reiterate, using your words "grown up" - if you think Germany is more grown up than the US, I would suggest moving there. And I do feel very qualified saying this as I worked for a German company for years and my husband coincidentally works for another.
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Pretty obvious what I met by that statement - they don't have the hand gun violence we do despite having a very gruesome and bloody history.

If Germany doesn't work for you, how about England. They fought a lot more wars than we have, but without the gun violence to show for it.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
A quick unofficial Google search shows Germany has a little over 1.0/per 100k firearm related death and the United States has nearly 11.0/per 100k.[/QUOTE[/
Apples and oranges VadEER!
Germany has a population of around 84 million compared to the US with a whopping population of 380 mill. Do the math more stuff will happen in a diverse free society 5x's the size of Germany.
We're a nation of 50 states each with different cultures and customs. Most importantly capitalism and free markets make us great and a place where everyone in the world wants to be a part of! I don't see people rushing to become Germans but they are rushing to be Americans.Darth move to Germany and let us know how it compares to our wonderful country! QUOTE]
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To Darth_VadEER
Germany has a population of around 84 million compared to the US with a whopping population of 380 million. Do the math more stuff will happen in a diverse free society 5x's the size of a controlled Germany.
We're a nation of 50 states each with different cultures and customs. Most importantly capitalism and free markets make us great and a place where everyone in the world wants to be a part of! I don't see people rushing to become German citizens but they are rushing to be Americans.Darth move to Germany and let us know how it compares to our wonderful country! QUOTE]
 
BuffetParrothead said:
Germany has a population of around 84 million compared to the US with a whopping population of 380 mill. Do the math more stuff will happen in a diverse free society 5x's the size of Germany.
We're a nation of 50 states each with different cultures and customs. Most importantly capitalism and free markets make us great and a place where everyone in the world wants to be a part of! I don't see people rushing to become Germans but they are rushing to be Americans.Darth move to Germany and let us know how it compares to our wonderful country! QUOTE]
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Most of the mass shooting are done by white males. Are you saying Germany doesn't have any of those? LOL.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
Most of the mass shooting are done by white males. Are you saying Germany doesn't have any of those? LOL.
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Never said that ! What I said was you're comparing apples and oranges! Just look at size and the opportunity to live in a large diverse free country. Nothing about white males!
Go to Germany I said that before and let us know how it works out!
 
pitt-girl said:
Cool. Beautiful country. My husbands family is from there. I would never, ever want to live there, but have at it.
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Still not sure how this event shifted from 2 religious, radicalized murderers to gun control though.
Darth_VadEER said:
Thats fine. We all have our preferences and you strike me as a true blue Murican.
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LOL. If you're implying I'm an American, then yes. However you've just unmasked yourself as someone who relies on stereotypes to make their point. The reality is you are no different than those you disparage. Grow up.
 
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BuffetParrothead said:
Why didn't you stay! Sounds like the place for a guy like you! Than we'd have only 379,999 million people to worry about not 380 million if you leave. PLEASE LEAVE!
I get such a laugh out of you USA haters and you're actually part of the problem.
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I don't have hate for anyone. I'm also not arrogant enough to believe America is the only place in the world that enjoys freedom or a good life.

Despite our freedoms our citizens aren't very happy people.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
I don't have hate for anyone. I'm also not arrogant enough to believe America is the only place in the world that enjoys freedom or a good life.

Despite our freedoms our citizens aren't very happy people.
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Lol hey Darth when you're in a hole stop digging.
I have better stuff to do tonight than talk to a guy who hates his and our country and makes no sense!
Good night and good luck because you're going to it!
 
pitt-girl said:
Still not sure how this event shifted from 2 religious, radicalized murderers to gun control though.

LOL. If you're implying I'm an American, then yes. However you've just unmasked yourself as someone who relies on stereotypes to make their point. The reality is you are no different than those you disparage. Grow up.
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I tried to debate you on the facts. You dodged.
 
BuffetParrothead said:
Lol hey Darth when you're in a hole stop digging.
I have better stuff to do tonight than talk to a guy who hates his and our country and makes no sense!
Good night and good luck because you're going to it!
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I'm comfortable with my opinions. Whether they or right or wrong, I'll never know for sure but at least I can say I've thought for myself.
 
pitt-girl said:
LOL. My sense is you'll get greater satisfaction debating this with a group who agrees with everything you say. Good Luck.
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I don't get satisfaction debating these issues with anyone. I'd much rather prefer that these conversations weren't necessary. For this topic, America is one of the few places in the world where the necessity actually exists, unfortunately.
 
No one seems to address what I consider to be a contributor to this terrible trend. Press coverage is so overwhelming that the idea of becoming famous for killing to advance your real or imagined agenda appeals to the sick kind of minds that are actually able to commit these acts. Now this does not apply to the family centered mass killings, which are a totally different case, but it certainly is a factor for the sick mind that craves attention or the agenda driven act like this terrorist attack.
 
burnie1105 said:
Why bother talking about it? America announced its tolerance for brutality when, nearly three years ago, someone stormed a classroom full of 1st graders, blew their brains out, and we did nothing. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. If nearly two dozen slain elementary students can't move Americans toward real and substantive change, nothing can. As long as we have a sick, deranged pro-gun culture in this country, Sandy Hook's and Aurora's and San Bernardino's will be regular occurrences.
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Great post. I wonder what the world and posterity will think of a supposed civilization where a classroom full of 5 and 6 year old little kids can be gunned down and it's leadership is totally frozen in the fear of at least trying to do something about it.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
Nice comparison A-hole. One wants to protect Americans and one wants to kill Americans and change the country that gives you the freedom to type stupid $hit like you do.
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Protecting Americans by standing up for criminal and lunatics to own weapons? Having rally's at the site of mass murders? Give me a break, they get a sexual release from this stuff and you know it.

The gun worshipers are no better than Muslim Radicals. Like it or not, these incidents are good for business and they know.[/QUOTE]

But again, this is not a gun control issue. Valid argument for a different debate. This is Radical Islam terrorism. They ain't going to abide by gun laws as we seen in France. You just want to beat a liberal talking point over and over and it is a little bit like the idiot yelling fire in a swimming pool.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
I own firearms, including handguns, but I'll never stand in the way of reasonable solutions to keep those kind of weapons out of the hands of lunatics and people with mental disorders. There's no reason an average Joe needs the same weapon that a Marine uses to patrol the streets of Fallujah. Those should be only allowed for combat purposes and law enforcement.

Once upon a time the NRA did a nice job representing hunters and sportsmen but that's long gone. Now they just represent the interests of gun manufacturers and anyone else who profits from gun violence.
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Focus. Again, wrong argument on this one.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
A quick unofficial Google search shows Germany has a little over 1.0/per 100k firearm related death and the United States has nearly 11.0/per 100k.
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Your quick Google search proves absolutely nothing, just like most of the other statements in your rant. Finding a solution to gun violence requires both sides coming together and addressing meaningful issues, with recognition and treatment of mental health disorders being in the forefront. This problem is the common denominator in just about every mass shooting in recent times. Bloviating about banning guns in this country is delusional and will never happen, nor will changing our culture to be become less defiant. It is who we are and you need to accept the fact that Americans to not aspire to be like people in the countries you idolize.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
But again, this is not a gun control issue. Valid argument for a different debate. This is Radical Islam terrorism. They ain't going to abide by gun laws as we seen in France. You just want to beat a liberal talking point over and over and it is a little bit like the idiot yelling fire in a swimming pool.
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The issues are not mutually exclusive: our laws and regulations have regularly allowed people, whether they are jihadists or otherwise mentally troubled, nearly unfettered access to powerful firearms. Could the San Bernardino shooters still have gotten ahold of their weaponry under stricter gun laws/regulation? Sure; no laws are foolproof, and there will always be people who find a way to achieve their goals. But why make it so easy to obtain assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition?

To put it into perspective, here is a (non-comprehensive) list of high-profile shootings where the perpetrators bought there weapons legally and easily:

Roanoke
Charleston
Fort Hood 1
Fort Hood 2
Washington Navy Yard
Sikh Temple (Wisconsin)
Aurora
Tuscon
Virginia Tech
Isla Vista
San Bernardino

What are the odds that every single one occurs if the perpetrator has difficulty obtaining a gun? If even one person in these events lives because the shooter could only buy one pistol, or didn't have access to a high capacity magazine, is it worth it? Of course it is

Additionally, the guns used in Sandy Hook and Columbine, though technically illegal (because they were stolen/illegally held), were otherwise purchased legally by their original owners; no one needs to amass that amount of firepower, and doing so is at best pointless and at worst homicidal (lest the wrong person get access to them).

This Onion article is hopelessly true: http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131
 
DSP1976 said:
No one seems to address what I consider to be a contributor to this terrible trend. Press coverage is so overwhelming that the idea of becoming famous for killing to advance your real or imagined agenda appeals to the sick kind of minds that are actually able to commit these acts. Now this does not apply to the family centered mass killings, which are a totally different case, but it certainly is a factor for the sick mind that craves attention or the agenda driven act like this terrorist attack.
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Id buy this if I could think of one single mass shooting where it later was revealed that media coverage or fame was the driver in the perps reasoning...honestly I can't think of any right now...now misguided religious fanaticism of all types? Yep.. I do see that being cited...to answer another question a mass shooting is generally considered 4 or more but the FBI uses tighter criteria... To date I think 2015 now has 355 mass shootings which is more than the days of the year so far... I don't care where you sit...it's unacceptable...
 
drillboy78 said:
Your quick Google search proves absolutely nothing, just like most of the other statements in your rant. Finding a solution to gun violence requires both sides coming together and addressing meaningful issues, with recognition and treatment of mental health disorders being in the forefront. This problem is the common denominator in just about every mass shooting in recent times. Bloviating about banning guns in this country is delusional and will never happen, nor will changing our culture to be become less defiant. It is who we are and you need to accept the fact that Americans to not aspire to be like people in the countries you idolize.
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So are you asserting that these other countries do not have mentally ill individuals? I'm sure they do. What are they doing we aren't?

Face it. We're the only advanced country dealing with this problem. Why?

If the only underlining problem was mental illness, this phenomenon would be more global.

Is mental illness uniquely American?
 
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drillboy78 said:
Your quick Google search proves absolutely nothing, just like most of the other statements in your rant. Finding a solution to gun violence requires both sides coming together and addressing meaningful issues, with recognition and treatment of mental health disorders being in the forefront. This problem is the common denominator in just about every mass shooting in recent times. Bloviating about banning guns in this country is delusional and will never happen, nor will changing our culture to be become less defiant. It is who we are and you need to accept the fact that Americans to not aspire to be like people in the countries you idolize.
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No, mental health is not the common denomintaor in mass shootings, in fact is is far from it.
 
pitt-girl said:
Explain to me how an American citizen, with no crime record and a job (i.e. legal gun owner under the most stringent laws) shot up a room full of people? Because of the gun? Or because of the motivation? Don't get me wrong - I am FOR stricter gun laws. But these mass shootings are about WAY more than gun laws. Mental Illness, Religious extremism to name a couple.
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This incident needs completely separated from the other Mass shootings. Again, as I asked the lib to focus, France has stricter gun laws than we ever ever will, and that didn't stop the Islamic terrorists. This was an act of terrorism. Would it make Eervader or whatever his name is to feel better if they just killed 15 people with pipe bombs (which incidentally I believe are completely illegal).

And like you, yes I too believe there needs to be more common sense based, stricter gun laws. But that debate is for another or other incidents. We are doing a disservice to allow the Left to pervert and deflect the cause of this incident to be clouded with what otherwise is a domestic issue versus a nation and ideology under attack.
 
Darth_VadEER said:
Most of the mass shooting are done by white males. Are you saying Germany doesn't have any of those? LOL.
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Why when I continue to approach you about the Islamic terrorists, you refuse to even engage in the possibility of this issue. You just keep on repeating yourself. Please leave us and take this over to your Hoopie board, where I am sure they will be much less kind in trying to debate.

You are perverting this incident to further a cause. I am asking you, do you think this was an terrorist act caused by radical Islamists, Jihadists if you will, or just some simple 'mericans who love their guns who decided to gun huntin' for some humans yesterday?

How would guns laws have stopped this? I don't want to hear about Germany, because I have asked you about France, and this happened in France about 2 weeks ago. They have strict gun laws. This will happen in Germany too. Or bombs, whatever.

Again, gun control debate has it merit and a time and a place. This is not the time and place. Please don't be a coward and tell me where anything I have typed is wrong.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Understand.

But this is a different issue. Sorry. France has among the toughest gun laws in the world. How'd that help?

Look again I am not saying our gun laws and the refusal to acknowledge a problem is not bad It is. But this is looking more and more like another act brought to you by radical Islam fundamentalism. And the left led by CNN into more referendum on gun control
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Want to compare per capita gun deaths?

Hint France is a third of ours
U.K. A fraction
But you know, freedom
 
Pittx9 said:
Agree. Almost every other event was the result of mentally ill Americans getting their hands on guns. This just was not the case here. They were "US citizens", but more than likely only because they were terrorists infiltrating this country. Let's not give them credit and call them one of us.
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Like the lunatic who shot up planned parenthood last week?
Or the other hundreds of mass shootings the last 7 years?
 
How many recorded mass shootings on US soil by Islamic terrorists have we had?

Hell we've had more homegrown terrorist murders of Americans than ISIS killings of Americans and it's not close ...Tim McVeigh might have em beat all by himself...

I cringe when the media can only label something terrorism when it involves Islamic middle eastern some bodies... As if shooting up grade schools....High schools...health centers... Movie theaters ... Church groups...isn't terrorist activity....
 
DruidTM said:
How many recorded mass shootings on US soil by Islamic terrorists have we had?

Hell we've had more homegrown terrorist murders of Americans than ISIS killings of Americans and it's not close ...Tim McVeigh might have em beat all by himself...

I cringe when the media can only label something terrorism when it involves Islamic middle eastern some bodies... As if shooting up grade schools....High schools...health centers... Movie theaters ... Church groups...isn't terrorist activity....
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Huh? Mcveigh was a terrorist, but a single shooter who is mentally ill and walks into a theater shooting is not doing it for some terrorist organization, he is a kook. Yes, there are home grown terrorists, but there are also mentally ill people. Not sure why the big rush to somehow soften what ISIS is doing by declaring every violent mental patient a terrorist.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Why when I continue to approach you about the Islamic terrorists, you refuse to even engage in the possibility of this issue. You just keep on repeating yourself. Please leave us and take this over to your Hoopie board, where I am sure they will be much less kind in trying to debate.

You are perverting this incident to further a cause. I am asking you, do you think this was an terrorist act caused by radical Islamists, Jihadists if you will, or just some simple 'mericans who love their guns who decided to gun huntin' for some humans yesterday?

How would guns laws have stopped this? I don't want to hear about Germany, because I have asked you about France, and this happened in France about 2 weeks ago. They have strict gun laws. This will happen in Germany too. Or bombs, whatever.

Again, gun control debate has it merit and a time and a place. This is not the time and place. Please don't be a coward and tell me where anything I have typed is wrong.
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This one appears to be motivated by Islamic Radicals.
 
KiwiJeff said:
Huh? Mcveigh was a terrorist, but a single shooter who is mentally ill and walks into a theater shooting is not doing it for some terrorist organization, he is a kook. Yes, there are home grown terrorists, but there are also mentally ill people. Not sure why the big rush to somehow soften what ISIS is doing by declaring every violent mental patient a terrorist.
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So let's clarify shoot up a place - not terrorism if it's not s profile .
Shoot up a place And you are a Muslim Terrorism.

What ends did this or the France or ft hood shooting yield as compared to the nut at planned parenthood,aurora, sandy hook, Seattle, etc?
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
So let's clarify shoot up a place - not terrorism if it's not s profile .
Shoot up a place And you are a Muslim Terrorism.

What ends did this or the France or ft hood shooting yield as compared to the nut at planned parenthood,aurora, sandy hook, Seattle, etc?
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Educate yourself and you won't appear as silly, you goose.
 
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