OT: Active shooter(s) on the loose after mass shooting in San Bernadino....
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Ok take the church shooting...clearly political...clearly racial...
Further... What makes you believe any terrorist can pass some mental health test... Do you believe people in ISIS are now of sound mental health? Hell it's been revealed through interegations of those who quit or fled ISIS that most of the young being recruited have never read the Koran and had no understanding of anything other than changing things through violence ... Are they mentally sound?
Also I believe this latest person was a US citizen born here in 1987... His wife of two years was not... Could he have been radicalized? Absolutely...
That's the thing... These problems are numerous and multifaceted... Not just whatever is in the last news cycle or whatever Limbaugh is moaning over...
Further... What makes you believe any terrorist can pass some mental health test... Do you believe people in ISIS are now of sound mental health? Hell it's been revealed through interegations of those who quit or fled ISIS that most of the young being recruited have never read the Koran and had no understanding of anything other than changing things through violence ... Are they mentally sound?
Also I believe this latest person was a US citizen born here in 1987... His wife of two years was not... Could he have been radicalized? Absolutely...
That's the thing... These problems are numerous and multifaceted... Not just whatever is in the last news cycle or whatever Limbaugh is moaning over...
I love sites like that , who live off of discredited studies and totally wrong statistics.
Great fodder for the math and critical thinking impaired.
I have no problem with gun ownership. Everyone who wants a gun can have a single shot rifle.
I said there are domestic terrorists and foreign terrorists, but not everyone who kills another person would be qualified as a terrorist. Again, not sure why this offends your delicate sensibilities. What does CNN or Limbaugh have to do with this? You seem a bit unstable yourself if you think this has to do anything about a radio personality.
Really...so you are gonna tell me Mr backwoods shoot em up Planned Parenthood just flew in out of nowhere but somehow missed the last 6 months of GOP grandstanding rhetoric about ... Wait for it... Planned Parenthood?
Point is you take gullible people and jam em up with enough dogma on anything this is what you get...and no I don't believe any of them qualify as being mentally sound..call that "delicate" if you like.. I call it " obvious".
But I'd like these types to have far less legal access to firearms.. Call me crazy I guess
Point is you take gullible people and jam em up with enough dogma on anything this is what you get...and no I don't believe any of them qualify as being mentally sound..call that "delicate" if you like.. I call it " obvious".
But I'd like these types to have far less legal access to firearms.. Call me crazy I guess
Discredited studies and totally wrong statistics? Sources are at the bottom, moron. I especially like the one from Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.
No need to get defensive because these facts refute your left wing agenda. Oh wait, you don't believe in defense - just wait for the police to come when someone is breaking into your house. Hope something like that never happens, even to you.
Just not sure how you deny access to a US citizen, who has no criminal record? If it is indeed true that they found the California shooter was following ISIS and trading messages with those involved, I think we need to take a long, hard look about how we plan on preventing any further attacks, cause they're coming.
So you are saying, all guns should be outlawed. Everyday, I am more people are killed in the metro areas of the top 10 largest cities in the US by guns than those listed above. Everyday. 95% incidents are by illegal guns.
It is amazing how much the left parses, pauses and struggles with coming out and saying the obvious.
My god, if we had the attitude that the left had in WWII, there would not be a Jew left and France would be serving Wiener Schnitzel on Bastille Day.
I completely think you liberals are unfit to command this country. I would take Sarah Palin over anything the Dems are offering, and that is frightening.
What did I parse? I said this incident appeared to be done by Islamic radicals. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.
By what?....
The PP shooter has a criminal history and domestic violence ...
So far the attacks I'm seeing aren't "they're coming " but citizens already in the countries they attack? Take France...or even San Bernadino...hence the FBI going through all hard drives thumb drives etc...so what do you suggest... Armbands?
Because you're a half wit, and I'm giving you half too much credit.
Yes completely discredited studies.
I knee which ones they were before getting to the bottom of the page.
Yeah, you're right. It's obvious our country has a problem with gun violence. It's sad to know that even when a mass shooting happens, it's really just another regular day in good ol' USA.
You proved my position better than I could myself, thanks.
That's not what I said at all, and if you seriously think it is what I said, I would recommend a CAT scan, because your reading comprehension seems severely impaired.
That's complete crap... Per FBI statistics, over half of all gun deaths in the USA are "accidental" deaths. From household accidents from kids or spouses or spur of the moment passion deaths.
And your "illegal guns"... Most of these are stolen guns that were purchased legally and used in deaths. That is still a legally bought gun.... Banning the sale of hubs would eliminate these too
You dodged my point. Slander and libel are civil matters, not criminal ones. Those are issues arising between individuals, not government regulation of speech. You also dodged my point about the internet and free speech. Screaming fire in a movie is not applicable to what I'm talking about. Even countries such as England and France have more ability for the government to restrict speech than the U.S. Everybody has the "fire in the theater" exception, but other countries have additional restrictions that the U.S doesn't have. By the same token, Americans have more rights to firearms than other countries have, due to the 2nd Amendment. My point, if you try to do an end run around the 2nd Amendment, then you will open the door for the same changes to other amendments.
I didn't say you were arguing for banning all guns. What I'm telling you is, you aren't going to get what you want unless you address the issues with the 2nd Amendment. You can argue with me till you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is nothing will happen until you take that initial step.
You can question the practicality of certain weapons all you want, but that's subjective. Just because you think they are impractical doesn't make it so. You can't impose that viewpoint by fiat. To the point about mass shootings, that's exactly my point about the 2nd Amendment. You are right that when it was written, mass shootings weren't possible. However, in that case, you have to deal with the problem by going to its source. That means, changing the amendment itself, rather that passing legislation to get around it. You simply don't understand the can of worms being opened if it's not do that way.
Bottom line on this, you have got it all wrong blaming politicians, the NRA, etc. If the majority of the American public really wanted stricter gun control, it would happen. The reason the politicians don't do it is because they don't have that much pressure on them to do it.
Thanks for sharing the personal revelation ...[/QUOTE]
You are very welcome.
However, I assume you are being sarcastic.
But then you go on to explain about your family as if that revelation has more relevance?
Self-importance is quite a trait.
You are very welcome.
However, I assume you are being sarcastic.
But then you go on to explain about your family as if that revelation has more relevance?
Self-importance is quite a trait.[/QUOTE]
Again thanks for sharing another moment of personal discovery.
Ok, so you think all people that are attracted by extremist Islam are mentally unsound. Why are you suggesting then that Islam attracts so many mentally unstable people, Captain Obvious?
Good post drillboy.
Our community is very proactive with approx. 90% of homes having guns and per the Sheriffs office approx. 70% have a license to carry a weapon in PA.
We meet with the police and NRA trainers a lot at our local gun clubs for safey training. Guess what they told us. The police said in the event of a breakin or home invasion it would take the average officer in the US about 10 mins to arrive. A backup officier must also arrive before police activity starts 15 min so by the time the police do something meaningful its 20 mins into the home invastion and guess what you and your family will be dead.
Our police and most police endorse having a way to defend yourself like a legal gun in trained hands to defend yourself.
Also no incidents of accidental gun death in the community and close to zero crime since the criminals know most of us have weapons.
The defenseless and gun free kill zones will be the targets not those with guns!
If fact my wife and I are going to the range at 8 when it opens so she can practice with her 380acp and me with my 9M. We shoot 3 x's a week.Our club has a pistol league just like a golf league every Wed night where about 100 people ( families, men , women, etc.) show up!
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You just need to read more. Educate yourself. You cannot rely on me to hold your hand into perpetuity, at some point, you need to grow up and put your big boy pants on.
More facts for you gun haters. This why guns will be here forever and little will change.
Gun and ammo sales over the past 15 years have gone thru the roof. NRA membership and contributions are up along with memberships to gun ranges. Guess who the newest membership group is women and the younger generation who are realizing self defense is important and safe shooting is a lot of fun.
Young women have graduated from pepper spray to an appropriate firearm. Pocketbooks with the built in handgun holsters are hard to find for Christmas this year. A good indicator!
FYi this goes across the political spectrum lots of middle of the road dems, independents, along with repubs shoot, and are members of the NRA.
Gun and ammo sales over the past 15 years have gone thru the roof. NRA membership and contributions are up along with memberships to gun ranges. Guess who the newest membership group is women and the younger generation who are realizing self defense is important and safe shooting is a lot of fun.
Young women have graduated from pepper spray to an appropriate firearm. Pocketbooks with the built in handgun holsters are hard to find for Christmas this year. A good indicator!
FYi this goes across the political spectrum lots of middle of the road dems, independents, along with repubs shoot, and are members of the NRA.
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I have, and I'm not finding the distinction between crazy person with a weapon and a crazy person with a weapon.
OK, knowing this most likely is going to be a lost cause ...
Lots of people here just throwing out that mental health is the primary predictor or cause of mass shootings.
This is a typical straw man foisted by those with $$$ that people eat up, one at very superficial level has an appeal, but is mostly not supported by actual reality.
We can all just say, well, if someone goes out and kills people like that, then they are obviously crazy. That is all fine and well, but when people want to direct public policy in a manner to try address gun violence by addressing mental health, the term mental health has to be more quantifiable than just "he/she was crazy."
A 2001 study looked specifically at 34 adolescent mass murderers, all male. 70 percent were described as a loner. 61.5 percent had problems with substance abuse. 48 percent had preoccupations with weapons; 43.5 percent had been victims of bullying. Only 23 percent had a documented psychiatric history of any kind―which means three out of four did not.
http://www.psmag.com/health-and-beh...tal-illness-mass-shootings-gun-violence-83103
Pretty much every study on mass shootings looks like this, there are such factors as "being a loner," history of violence, and sorry, an obession with violence and fire arms in particular, but those with actual documented mental health issues is not even close to being primary.
NOW, the likely response is, "Well, this is failure of our ability to diagnose mental health issues!"
So ... That leads to ... Mandated mental health screening for everyone. Which would seem to run counter to what all of the constitutional, get government out of my life types seem to want.
The likely response, "No one is suggesting that, we just need to respond to reports better."
We do for the most part, but I guess we could have more government intrusion and have every possible report of any kind followed up by even more intrusive and forced and mandated mental health screening.
Beyond the extraordinary cost and intrusion by government, what happens when someone calls and reports someone buying a lot of guns? Some might not agree, but there are many who would view the purchase these things as being indications of paranoid behavior. Certainly could have prevented Calif if someone had reported these two POS buying body armor and guns and reported that?
Finally, if the second amendment is sacrosanct, as it stands now, where does it say the right to bear arms, except for those who have been charged with a crime or diagnosed with a mental health condition?
Point of this ... This whole mental health is the cause of mass shootings thing is a strawman and people who want to get in line behind it, as is most cases with the strawmen put out by people with money, aren't looking at the ramifications of following it.
All of this is not to say we should not work toward better and more effective treatment of those with mental health issues or that it could not be a tertiary factor in some cases or even perhaps the primary issue in isolated cases.
Lots of people here just throwing out that mental health is the primary predictor or cause of mass shootings.
This is a typical straw man foisted by those with $$$ that people eat up, one at very superficial level has an appeal, but is mostly not supported by actual reality.
We can all just say, well, if someone goes out and kills people like that, then they are obviously crazy. That is all fine and well, but when people want to direct public policy in a manner to try address gun violence by addressing mental health, the term mental health has to be more quantifiable than just "he/she was crazy."
A 2001 study looked specifically at 34 adolescent mass murderers, all male. 70 percent were described as a loner. 61.5 percent had problems with substance abuse. 48 percent had preoccupations with weapons; 43.5 percent had been victims of bullying. Only 23 percent had a documented psychiatric history of any kind―which means three out of four did not.
http://www.psmag.com/health-and-beh...tal-illness-mass-shootings-gun-violence-83103
Pretty much every study on mass shootings looks like this, there are such factors as "being a loner," history of violence, and sorry, an obession with violence and fire arms in particular, but those with actual documented mental health issues is not even close to being primary.
NOW, the likely response is, "Well, this is failure of our ability to diagnose mental health issues!"
So ... That leads to ... Mandated mental health screening for everyone. Which would seem to run counter to what all of the constitutional, get government out of my life types seem to want.
The likely response, "No one is suggesting that, we just need to respond to reports better."
We do for the most part, but I guess we could have more government intrusion and have every possible report of any kind followed up by even more intrusive and forced and mandated mental health screening.
Beyond the extraordinary cost and intrusion by government, what happens when someone calls and reports someone buying a lot of guns? Some might not agree, but there are many who would view the purchase these things as being indications of paranoid behavior. Certainly could have prevented Calif if someone had reported these two POS buying body armor and guns and reported that?
Finally, if the second amendment is sacrosanct, as it stands now, where does it say the right to bear arms, except for those who have been charged with a crime or diagnosed with a mental health condition?
Point of this ... This whole mental health is the cause of mass shootings thing is a strawman and people who want to get in line behind it, as is most cases with the strawmen put out by people with money, aren't looking at the ramifications of following it.
All of this is not to say we should not work toward better and more effective treatment of those with mental health issues or that it could not be a tertiary factor in some cases or even perhaps the primary issue in isolated cases.
Anyone with any sense knows it is not going to change here.
After Sandy Hook my liberal friends were all cock sure that was the moment, it was going to change things. They didn't want to hear it when I said that there would be no, ZERO change, at least at the national level.
At the same time, that christmas my inlaws were running out getting the assault style weapons thinking that big old bad Obama was going to take them, and I told them the same thing.
That doesn't mean that our country is not bizarrely out of proportion with it, and the "answer" for gun violence for many, sadly is to make it more out of proportion.
The world you portray of everyone should be strapped for all these home invasions ...
Jesus ...
Then you are already beyond hope, and nothing I tell you will help. Good luck.
Absolutely the more guns in the hands of legal, trained owners is a good thing.
My wife and I are supporting a group of educators who are lobbying in PA for a select group of trained and certified school admins and teachers to be armed and abolition of gun free "kill ones.This will start in private schools first and my expand to public school we hope.
Yesterday the news reported that off duty police will be required to be armed when going to NFL games. The police unions are backing this move. Right now they are banned from being armed at a game.
Remember when the airline pilots union allowed pilots to volunteer to be armed when flying? This worked well!
One thing that would help stop senseless violence is to get a handle on the mentally disadvantaged securing weapons. Right now due to privacy laws its impossible since there's no "database" to check against. Its all self reporting and reliance on answering questions correctly on the application to purchase a firearm. Not sure how to fix this one since we've adopted Euro based privacy laws in this country.
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To save all of the ill feelings I will just say that I can't possibly disagree more with the first point, and I have laid out the issues relative to the second point ...
I guess they forgot to ask you. This is off the internet and is old news. Its up to 20 states now!
Armed Teacher Training Program’ Launches In 15 States
A TX private school that implemented this has a student waiting list now. Other privates are moving quickly on this.
Fyi Jeffburgh I have no ill feelings toward people who disagree with me. That's a liberal trait not a conservative one. We deal with all issues straight up.
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A 2001 study looked specifically at 34 adolescent mass murderers, all male. 70 percent were described as a loner. 61.5 percent had problems with substance abuse. 48 percent had preoccupations with weapons; 43.5 percent had been victims of bullying. Only 23 percent had a documented psychiatric history of any kind―which means three out of four did not.
A 2001 study? Is that the best you can do? Your study was based on the actions of 34 individual from 1958 to 1999, which excludes all recent mass shootings mentioned on posts throughout this thread.
Yes Jeff, mental health disorders need to be addressed during background checks. If you're going to post something, make it relevant.
Again, knowing it is waste of time - pretty much EVERY study, regardless of when shows the same thing ...
Mental Health
Of 133 examined incidents, in only one was there evidence the shooter was prohibited by federal law from possessing guns due to severe mental illness. In 15 other incidents (11 percent), there was there was evidence that concerns about the mental health of the shooter had been brought to the attention of a medical practitioner, school official, or legal authority prior to the shooting.
http://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/
Agreed NTOP.To add to your post.Germany has 82 mill people who live in a controlled "one state" environment and the US has 380 mill people who live in 50 states in a free society. Big difference in scale and diversity of cultures
