OT; Anyone watching the Ken Burn's Vietnam series on PBS?

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Good post.

Deeply disagree with wars in the Middle East and especially Afghanistan. History has shown it's impossible to succeed. I got that there was interest in revenge for 911 but it was the biggest folly in history, even more than Vietnam, to think we could "win" there long term. The first gulf war (also dumb, particularly in not eliminating Hussein once we did commit to engage in it) gave a terrible impression that success in that region was possible and easy and clean. But history shows it never ends there, it is never the same thing from year to year, and it is a guaranteed quagmire.

Eliminating Saddam Hussein, if that was a goal, was one of the dumbest strategic moves in US History. He was the needle in the record, the fly in the ointment over there. He had everyone else (other Mid East countries) intimidated and scared. Sure he was a despot, but there were/are alot of despots. Hussein in charge helped from having a more unified Mid East and was a deterrent to large scale terrorist organizations like ISIS. Plus was more of a threat to Iran, and helped keep them on the defensive.

Bad move. Bad move to settle a personal score.

 

[sibleyfan91]

Eliminating Saddam Hussein, if that was a goal, was one of the dumbest strategic moves in US History. He was the needle in the record, the fly in the ointment over there. He had everyone else (other Mid East countries) intimidated and scared. Sure he was a despot, but there were/are alot of despots. Hussein in charge helped from having a more unified Mid East and was a deterrent to large scale terrorist organizations like ISIS. Plus was more of a threat to Iran, and helped keep them on the defensive.

Bad move. Bad move to settle a personal score.

The whole thing was. What true interest was it of ours if one dictator or a different dictator ruled Kuwait. "The oil". Yeah yeah. Wouldn't matter who was there. They'd still need to sell the oil. Long term we're getting away from oil anyway. Ridiculous to ever engage there.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Eliminating Saddam Hussein, if that was a goal, was one of the dumbest strategic moves in US History. He was the needle in the record, the fly in the ointment over there. He had everyone else (other Mid East countries) intimidated and scared. Sure he was a despot, but there were/are alot of despots. Hussein in charge helped from having a more unified Mid East and was a deterrent to large scale terrorist organizations like ISIS. Plus was more of a threat to Iran, and helped keep them on the defensive.

Bad move. Bad move to settle a personal score.

In theory, democracy should be practiced everywhere. In reality, that isn't feasible in some places, especially the middle east. Iraq was a minefield to begin with....Sunni's, shi'ites, and Christians all trying to live in harmony. Ain't gonna happen. You need a heavy hand to keep the peace, not a parliament elected by these individual groups.

I remember that the news used to say what a terrible guy Saddam was since he would throw his enemies in paper shredders. Well maybe the people he was throwing in there were the members of ISIS today.

 

[Jeffburgh]

In theory, democracy should be practiced everywhere. In reality, that isn't feasible in some places, especially the middle east. Iraq was a minefield to begin with....Sunni's, shi'ites, and Christians all trying to live in harmony. Ain't gonna happen. You need a heavy hand to keep the peace, not a parliament elected by these individual groups.

I remember that the news used to say what a terrible guy Saddam was since he would throw his enemies in paper shredders. Well maybe the people he was throwing in there were the members of ISIS today.

They have been around 10 times longer than us and it is mostly a marginally inhabitable $hithole - there is a reason for that. They just don't have the core character/mindsets for democracy, the work ethic, the ability to work together (for things non-political) ...

 

[Panther Parrothead]

They have been around 10 times longer than us and it is mostly a marginally inhabitable $hithole - there is a reason for that. They just don't have the core character/mindsets for democracy, the work ethic, the ability to work together (for things non-political) ...

The best democracies are the ones that are developed from within. Thinking that we could introduce democracy to people who never had it, and never really tried to get it, wasn't the smartest move.

 

[Franb]

The best democracies are the ones that are developed from within. Thinking that we could introduce democracy to people who never had it, and never really tried to get it, wasn't the smartest move.

You are correct. Imposing democracy could be considered an oxymoron. Democracy is fundamentally based on consent of the governed, and thus cannot be imposed. One of the ironies of the Vietnam fiasco is that Ho Chi Minh appealed to the US more than once, as far back as the end of WW1, to support Vietnam's independence from French colonial rule. We sided with the French, then fought a war for "democracy" in S Vietnam.