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OT:Buccos

How about in triple fairness, add the fact that this is a continued effort by the Pirates and their media to spend no money while pushing a narrative of how great these prospects are. Case in point, Cole Tucker, 4 years of futile over the top superlatives, he was lousy. How is this group much different? Davis can hit at least, but not seeing much else.

Well we always bitched about playing .243 veteran utility guys over the young players when the season was over anyway, so I can't get too mad about getting these prospects the repetitions. Them being worth their weight in salt, however, remains to be seen.
 
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How about in triple fairness, add the fact that this is a continued effort by the Pirates and their media to spend no money while pushing a narrative of how great these prospects are. Case in point, Cole Tucker, 4 years of futile over the top superlatives, he was lousy. How is this group much different? Davis can hit at least, but not seeing much else.
The frustrating thing with Davis is his value at 1.1 was playing catcher. You take that away playing him in the outfield where he is going to struggle defensively as he learns the position. Oddly enough, that's part of the excuse for him not playing catcher right now.
 
Well we always bitched about playing .243 veteran utility guys over the young players when the season was over anyway, so I can't get too mad about getting these prospects the repetitions. Them being worth their weight in salt, however, remains to be seen.
Understood. But you probably identified the major issue in your explanation. In their cheap state the Pirates have had far too many .228-.240 utility players. Spend some money, get the standard .275-.285 utility players and overtime it makes a difference, but the Pirates will not invest in the concept.
 
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John Russell will always stand out to me as the worst manager, and Shelton's win percentage is currently sitting below his. Ouch.
Clint Hurdle was a decent hire. Had some track record. The Pirates can't let this rebuild job stay in the hands of this clown crew. Hire someone with some damn experience and a track record.
 
Hedges gives up three stolen bases in the same inning today. Dfa this clown already.
 
In fairness, it's kind of funny how the outlook for the future on this thread has been so tied to this year's team, most of whom shouldn't factor into it.

But in double fairness, those who do factor into the future aren't exactly playing well, and the safe money is always on the Pirates to fail.
Yeah. I was arguing on another location with people complaining about Santana but giving Hayes a pass. I’m much more worried about Hayes, who is supposed to be a piece to build around, than Santana who will be gone after this year
 
Hedges gives up three stolen bases in the same inning today. Dfa this clown already.


The only thing is, the guy on the mound today leads the National League (and maybe the majors, I didn't look) in stolen bases against.

It's always hard to tell how much the catcher is to blame for stolen bases against, because if the pitcher does a bad job with the runner the catcher has no chance at all.
 
The MLB schedule makes no sense. Just prior to the All-Star break, the Pirates were in Los Angeles, followed by a trip to Arizona. After the break, a short home stand, and now this weekend they'll be in Anaheim, followed by San Diego. Would have made more sense to have them do all four of those in one swing (LA, Anaheim, San Diego, then Arizona).
 
The only thing is, the guy on the mound today leads the National League (and maybe the majors, I didn't look) in stolen bases against.

It's always hard to tell how much the catcher is to blame for stolen bases against, because if the pitcher does a bad job with the runner the catcher has no chance at all.
True. And if he only gave up stolen bases when Hill was on the mound, I'd understand. But teams run on him all game long, no matter the pitcher. I'd like someone else to catch Hill and see how many stolen bases are had
 
True. And if he only gave up stolen bases when Hill was on the mound, I'd understand. But teams run on him all game long, no matter the pitcher. I'd like someone else to catch Hill and see how many stolen bases are had


Well so far this year Hedges has thrown out 14.5% of base stealers and Jason Delay has thrown out 11.8% (and Tyler Heineman was 0 for 2), so that would seem to indicate that it isn't just a Hedges problem and it isn't just a Hill problem.

The other five pitchers who have started the most games besides Hill are Keller, 9 steals in 9 attempts, Contreras, 13 steals in 15 attempts, Oviedo, 6 steals in 7 attempts, Ortiz, 2 steals in 2 attempts and Velasquez, 5 steals in 5 attempts.

So the six guys who have started the most games are, in total, 52 steals in 57 attempts.

That is god awful.
 
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And it looks like this is why the Pirates went under slot value for the majority of their picks. They spend $700K over slot value to sign the 67th overall pick. Anyone know anything about him? I believe he’s one of the few high school pitchers we drafted this year.
 
Fun game tonight against the Los Angeles California Angels of Anaheim. Henry Davis with 2 HRs. Shohei has been very good as well.
 
Long-term, I’d love to see him and Endy Rodriguez switch behind catcher and DH or 1B. Oneil Cruz might be an option to move to RF depending on how Peguero performs.
It's way early but how about when Hayes and Cruz get healthy , send Cruz to right , Hayes to short and keep Trioli at third ...
 
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It's way early but how about when Hayes and Cruz get healthy , send Cruz to right , Hayes to short and keep Trioli at third ...
I agree with Cruz at RF, but I’d personally stick with Hayes at 3B for now, though. Only because I want Peguero to get some chances at shortstop and see what he has, although he could end up at first since his throwing accuracy reminds me of Pedro Alvarez.

I definitely think they need to keep Triolo in the lineup, though. Once those two come back, do they let him stay at first and see how he does hitting to finish the season? If Hayes/Peguero/Gonzales occupy 2B/3B/SS, that means 1B is still up for grabs because I could see them trading Santana and/or Choi before the deadline. We need another guy like him who is a prospect that surprisingly makes an impact at the major league level, kind of like Suwinski.
 
Moral victory (if there is such a thing): the 4 HRs off Ohtani is a career high. However . . . the Pirate pitchers couldn't keep the ball in the park themselves.
 
I agree with Cruz at RF, but I’d personally stick with Hayes at 3B for now, though. Only because I want Peguero to get some chances at shortstop and see what he has, although he could end up at first since his throwing accuracy reminds me of Pedro Alvarez.

I definitely think they need to keep Triolo in the lineup, though. Once those two come back, do they let him stay at first and see how he does hitting to finish the season? If Hayes/Peguero/Gonzales occupy 2B/3B/SS, that means 1B is still up for grabs because I could see them trading Santana and/or Choi before the deadline. We need another guy like him who is a prospect that surprisingly makes an impact at the major league level, kind of like Suwinski.
The big problem is CRUZ doesn't want to play RF or anywhere else but SS.
Hurts because the Pirates have an abundance of middle infielders, some of whom are better fielders than Cruz.

This is going to be a real headache going forward for the Pirates.
 
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The big problem is CRUZ doesn't want to play RF or anywhere else but SS.
Hurts because the Pirates have an abundance of middle infielders, some of whom are better fielders than Cruz.

This is going to be a real headache going forward for the Pirates.
Very true. He’s a special talent, but his fielding puts him as just an above average shortstop. I supppse you could have Peguero move to first base, but then you have a need at RF. Maybe that’s a position we can sign someone at because Henry Davis is *not* the solution there.
 
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Very true. He’s a special talent, but his fielding puts him as just an above average shortstop. I supppse you could have Peguero move to first base, but then you have a need at RF. Maybe that’s a position we can sign someone at because Henry Davis is *not* the solution there.
Is Cruz an above average defensive SS? I would have guessed that, at least thus far in his career, he is below average defensively.

I think his offensive upside probably does put him at an above average SS overall, to make up for being subpar on defense.
 
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We don't really have a first basemen of the future, so I'm surprised that a 6'7" target who already plays the infield isn't being talked about more there. I get it, though - he has said he wants to play SS.

Is Triolo part of the future? I didn't think he came with much pedigree. I know he's done well so far, but his minor league slugging is about as impotent as it gets. He's fine as a utility player, but we can't afford to have such little power at that position.

Has Hayes claimed he doesn't want to be here? I was told that last night, but I don't really keep up with Pirates news.

I'm feeling less confident by the day that this group is going to make any noise in the coming years.
 
I also think one of them might be a trade candidate at some point. We’d have Cruz, Hayes, Gonzales, Peguero, potentially Davis/Rodriguez whenever they’re not catching, and Temarr Johnson in 2025. You can try moving them around to keep everyone together, but that might not be the case if Cherington gets fired at some point.
 
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I'll take Davis with a suspect fielding percentage and a good bat over a stellar defender with no bat.


The errors he has made in the field so far are all plays like overrunning the ball when he's charging in trying to pick the ball up. Things that if he played outfield all the time he would be much better at simply through repetition.

In other words, what you are seeing is why it's a bad idea to have someone try to learn a new position at the major league level. And yeah, he played in right field in the minors a little bit before he got here, but he's never really been a right fielder before, he was a catcher who played right field on the days he didn't catch to get more at bats.
 
It's way early but how about when Hayes and Cruz get healthy , send Cruz to right , Hayes to short and keep Trioli at third ...
I like Hayes, but I don't see him as a shortstop. I think it's easier for a shortstop to shift to third base (e. g.. Maury Wills when he was traded to the Pirates) than vice versa.
 
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