OT: Gerrit Cole
- Thread starter Pittguy1980
- Start date
What value did they get from Tabata, Karstens, Ohlendorf, McCutchen? Those guys were awful.
Locke has been one of the very worst SP in baseball over the past four years. I'm sorry if I don't count getting a terrible SP a win under any circumstance. Morton was meh, more bad than good, mostly injured, certainly overpaid, then dumped for nothing.
Let me know the next time Sean Rodriguez puts up three straight years of 15+ HR, 10% BB rate, and less than 20% K rate as a starter. Hell, let me know when he was a starter for three straight years, disregarding any of the other stats.
And even at that, if you had three years of control of Sean Rodriguez left, you would be an idiot for trading him for Robinzon Diaz.
Jose Bautista was traded for the worst reason of all, because he spoke out that he shouldn't have been benched for Andy F'n LaRoche. And NH looks completely foolish for both picking LaRoche over him and trading him for a guy who couldn't even be a backup catcher.
That is awful talent evaluation all around, that isn't "win some/lose some".
Locke has been one of the very worst SP in baseball over the past four years. I'm sorry if I don't count getting a terrible SP a win under any circumstance. Morton was meh, more bad than good, mostly injured, certainly overpaid, then dumped for nothing.
Let me know the next time Sean Rodriguez puts up three straight years of 15+ HR, 10% BB rate, and less than 20% K rate as a starter. Hell, let me know when he was a starter for three straight years, disregarding any of the other stats.
And even at that, if you had three years of control of Sean Rodriguez left, you would be an idiot for trading him for Robinzon Diaz.
Jose Bautista was traded for the worst reason of all, because he spoke out that he shouldn't have been benched for Andy F'n LaRoche. And NH looks completely foolish for both picking LaRoche over him and trading him for a guy who couldn't even be a backup catcher.
That is awful talent evaluation all around, that isn't "win some/lose some".
Chavez has had a better career than Locke, if you're going to call a trade in which they received Locke a win, then trading Chavez for Iwamura is a huge loss.
Of all the idiot pirate fans I have dealt with, including morons on your CIA board and on the MLB message board, you really might be the worst. That is saying a lot especially since del is on here too.
Let's recap what you've said here.
Trade Gerrit Cole
It's all Cutch and Cole's fault
Refuse to acknowledge NH sabotaged the season with Niese, Locke, And Nicasio in rotation
Called the Nady/Marte trade a big win when they received nothing of value at all
Are fine with trading Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz
Are happy with a deal that brought them back Jeff Locke and Charlie Morton while at the same time laughing at the mention of trading away Jesse Chavez for nothing, when Chavez has been better than Locke over his career
I mean seriously, it's like NEAL did a great job simply because he can fill 25 spots on the roster, no matter how good or bad the players happen to be, and no matter the opportunity cost of trading good players for nothing instead of real talent.
You know what they call a pitcher with two pitchers? A freaking reliever........don't be so misinformed my man
Actually you are wrong and you just said it in your own post he is having difficulty repeating his delivery........Having a smooth delivery and repeating are two different things.....and hey dummy nobody is trashing the kid or trying to get vengeance for Huntington, get your head out of your clueless ass.....Some people are just level headed enough to see the situation for what it is....He needs to work on his command, delivery, and a third pitch........He is not far off but trying to iron out those things against the Cubs for example is a recipe for disaster....take your decimal points and slashes and shove them....
Wait...What?...Did mvk really just put Tabata, Xavier freaking Nady, and Nate Mcclouth in an upper echelon of baseball assests?
I'm out.....I think
I'm out.....I think
Neal has done a great job based on where the organization was when he took over compared to where it is now.
Serious question, why aren't you working in a baseball FO somewhere since you seem to be all knowing?
No, nobody ever said that. But the returns NH got for Nady/Marte and McLouth were poor. Just like the return for Bay, just like the return for Bautista, just like the return for Walker.
8 of the other 10 GMs that have been on the job longer than two years have actually won something. A division, a playoff series, a pennant, a World Series. This includes a GM from Kansas City, an equally downtrodden franchise that hadn't won in forever. Baltimore, whose organization was poor when Duquette took over. The Mets, who were a laughingstock under Omar Minaya.
Seriously, look around the league... what the Pirates have accomplished under Neal Huntington isn't special. Consider, since he was hired -
Tampa Bay has won an AL Pennant
Baltimore has won a division
Minnesota has won multiple division titles
Cincinnati has won multiple division titles
Cleveland is going to win the division this year
Kansas City has won a World Series and gone to another
Milwaukee has won a division
Oakland has won multiple division titles
Those are all small market teams that don't make excuses like this front office does. You can whine and moan all day and say yeah but look at them now, but at least those teams won something. Will this organization ever? They haven't yet, they aren't going to this year, they're far away from where the Cubs are and the Cubs are only getting better, and the Cardinals have a better front office/organization that will keep them ahead. Do you honestly see the Pirates overtaking the Cubs or Cardinals any time in the near future?
A pitcher with two plus pitches and an average third pitch will never be a reliever unless the organization is dumb. Shit, Glasnow is going to be a reliever soon for the Pirates.
I wholeheartedly agree. If there's a more arrogant, pompous, knowitall (before it even happens) jackass on the internet than this guy, then God help us.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do" - Ben Franklin
Sounds like you're being a bit hard on yourself for the crap you're spewing about Cutch and Cole.
It's okay, as long as you shine NEAL's shoes and keep him happy, he'll give you a pat on the head.
You are one of a kind. You know there are 300 plus posts on this thread and you must have posted 200 of them. Do you have a life? You say you work for a living but you're either lying or suck at what you do. You have loser written all over you.
Me? I have my own successful business and I'm ready for early retirement. I can afford to check in on your stupidity.
Is your name Brian???? Answer the question...
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Another juvenile moronic post... Like I said, you're a LOSER.
Here's some advice for YOU:
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain
You lack the wisdom and wit to continue playing this game, Brian.
You are a consummate bonehead who thinks he's smarter than anyone else about Pittsburgh sports.
I know it's VERY IMPORTANT for your self-esteem to be right. But posting a tirade like a two year old makes you look worse.
Give it up.
You make yourself look more foolish with each post. Calling me Brian (???) for whatever reason, and generally throwing a fit because someone dares to question moves made by a guy who has never won anything. You call names then try to give advice to not call names. You lack the self awareness for anyone to take you seriously. Keep striving for second place and you will always be a loser.
It's easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback when the game has already been played. You look foolish criticizing moves that nobody knew the outcome before hand except you.
You lack logic and you make up things (The Pirates did offer Russell Martin a contract) just so you can win an arguement.
You don't acknowledge the other person's questions or points like a two year old. You just keep babbling nonsense...
Get a job and find a family...
You really think nobody knew trading Jose Bautista for a guy whose ceiling was AAA backup catcher was foolish?
That nobody knew that trading Neil Walker for Jon Niese, a guy bumped from the Mets rotation last year, was foolish?
Come on, you have to blindly support NH to think the outcome of those trades were in question.
And nevermind what anyone else might think, Neal Huntington is the GM of a MLB team, it is his sole job to know these things. To know the kind of talent that Jose Bautista possessed. To know Andy LaRoche was a terrible baseball player. To know Jon Niese was not a good starting pitcher and that there would be a steep downgrade from Neil Walker to Josh Harrison.
This isn't minor stuff, this is his entire job, evaluating players and building a team that wins a championship.
You keep believing a low ball offer to Russell Martin, both in terms of money and years, was a real attempt to re-sign him. It was paying lip service to signing him. That is mostly on Nutting, but don't give Neal Huntington credit for throwing out an offer he knew wasn't in the same area code as what Martin would sign for.
This isn't Monday Morning QB, it's critical thinking, holding them accountable, and not just listening to the PR that they disseminate through the local media.
Lol. You think you are the smartest guy on here, but really are the most clueless.
If that's what you want to believe.
Keep cheering for Neal, just remember to take the skirt off and put the pom poms down before going outside.
Fans like you...they deserve Dave littlefield and cam bonifay. You deserve a 90 loss team every year.
This is an amusing thread. Many opinions about NH, people down in the weeds with statistics, etc., etc. Coming to blows and name-calling. Funny.
But none of these arguments are at all relevant to the Pirates. Why doesn't anyone address the real problem?
In order for NH (or any GM) to win in Pittsburgh, he would have to convince the owner that championships are important and he should actually want to win a championship. Then, he would have to convince the owner that a nucleus of good players, by itself, is not enough to win a championship. He would have to convince the owner to spend significant money to fill holes with proven talent to have a reasonable chance of winning.
Even Theo Epstein couldn't do these things. So we fans are depending on the extremely small chance that several average players will have career years all at once to move the needle in the post season. We have had a taste of this luck over the last few seasons, at least enough to be part of the post season. But obviously this is not a recipe for success if your goal is for the Pirates to win it all one day.
With current ownership, the only course for Huntington (or any GM) is to continue to try to find an undervalued player or a rehab project. Sometimes they are inexpensive enough to sign, and sometimes you have to dump current or future salary to get them. I would say that Huntington has been moderately successful doing this, with more wins than losses. Expecting more from Huntington is extremely foolish; he simply has no room to maneuver.
As Pirate fans, we will have to be very, very lucky. Because we can only be so good.
But none of these arguments are at all relevant to the Pirates. Why doesn't anyone address the real problem?
In order for NH (or any GM) to win in Pittsburgh, he would have to convince the owner that championships are important and he should actually want to win a championship. Then, he would have to convince the owner that a nucleus of good players, by itself, is not enough to win a championship. He would have to convince the owner to spend significant money to fill holes with proven talent to have a reasonable chance of winning.
Even Theo Epstein couldn't do these things. So we fans are depending on the extremely small chance that several average players will have career years all at once to move the needle in the post season. We have had a taste of this luck over the last few seasons, at least enough to be part of the post season. But obviously this is not a recipe for success if your goal is for the Pirates to win it all one day.
With current ownership, the only course for Huntington (or any GM) is to continue to try to find an undervalued player or a rehab project. Sometimes they are inexpensive enough to sign, and sometimes you have to dump current or future salary to get them. I would say that Huntington has been moderately successful doing this, with more wins than losses. Expecting more from Huntington is extremely foolish; he simply has no room to maneuver.
As Pirate fans, we will have to be very, very lucky. Because we can only be so good.
Huntington has more losses than wins over his tenure, whether you are talking on field or in trades.
I don't buy the small market excuse. Like I listed earlier, since he was hired, every other small market team has won either a division, pennant, or world series (except Cleveland, who will win their division this year in all probability). Wanting him to win something before we say he is doing a great job or calling him a great GM is not asking too much. It's happening everywhere else.
No, in reality it's fans like you who accept the crap the front office spews that deserve a 90 loss team. Wanting more, like a division title, a playoff series win, a pennant, a title, is what every fan should be looking for, and not letting them off the hook for stuff like 'bridge year' or 'financial flexibility'. Financial flexibility leads to trading two top ten prospects for a pitcher who is awful.
I am not making a "small market excuse". There is no need to overspend, but a need to know when to open the wallet to capitalize on a window of talent, like the Pirates now have. I haven't researched this as others have, but I would guess that most small market teams that have won championships have spent when necessary. Otherwise, they have had extremely good fortune.
I agree with that, and noted that they needed to spend now when the window was open, to put them over the top.
Did they not win the division last year because of:
A. Huntington failed to put a team capable of winning the division o the field.
B. They were unfortunate to be in the division with the three best records in baseball.
They didn't win the division because the team put together didn't win enough games to win the division.
You can spin and excuse any way you wish. They didn't win the division, and were beat out by the third place team in the division in the play-in game. They weren't good enough.
So you blame Neal Huntington for the Pirates being in the wrong division?
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No, but I don't make excuses either. The division they are in is the division they are in. They didn't win it. Answer A is the only correct answer to your question.
A. Huntington failed to put a team capable of winning the division o the field.
If you want to continue to make excuses, and spin everything, be my guest. But the facts show that he has never won anything, yet pretty much all of his peers (80% of those on job longer than 2 years) have won a division, series, pennant, and/or title.
So Huntington was supposed to be the best team in baseball last year. Since he wasn't, he failed?
Do you know more about how to run a baseball team than Huntington?
WRONG!
The players failed to win enough games!!!!! There was plenty of talented players on the Pirates team last season. They won the second most wins in baseball last year! Stop the nonsense!
You are a Blithering idiot!!!!!
Spin spin spin, excuse excuse excuse.
Perhaps relying on Jeff Locke and Charlie Morton to be 4th and 5th starters all year wasn't the best of ideas.
I know I know I know, who could've known those guys would be awful, that's using hindsight! Or maybe, it's just easy to spot awful pitchers.
